The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Post by Johnnie »

I'm light of DeVos resigning, every cabinet member right now:

If I resign then I can't be forced to remove him via the 25th amendment.

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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

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Johnnie wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:47 pm I'm light of DeVos resigning, every cabinet member right now:

If I resign then I can't be forced to remove him via the 25th amendment.

Probably wishful thinking:
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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Post by EdRomero »

The Dems should spend the next 2 years forcing these fuckers to testify. Everything has to be brought out into the open. I probably wrote something similar about the Russian influence, Covid Response, and a million other things, but this time I mean it.
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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

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Nice guys those Capitol Police Officers are.

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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

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EdRomero wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:08 pm The Dems should spend the next 2 years forcing these fuckers to testify. Everything has to be brought out into the open. I probably wrote something similar about the Russian influence, Covid Response, and a million other things, but this time I mean it.
Holy shit. Just holy shit.
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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

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Pruitt wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:31 pm
EdRomero wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:08 pm The Dems should spend the next 2 years forcing these fuckers to testify. Everything has to be brought out into the open. I probably wrote something similar about the Russian influence, Covid Response, and a million other things, but this time I mean it.
Holy shit. Just holy shit.
tenn_bengal dropped the link to a Business Insider article that spells it out plain-as-day to our allies' intelligence and security analysts.
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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Post by tennbengal »

I mean, these are not hard dots to connect, y'all.
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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Post by EnochRoot »

tennbengal wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:49 pm I mean, these are not hard dots to connect, y'all.
No of course they aren't. But they need to be spelled out by foreign governments so that news organizations cannot ignore them.
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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

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I'm fully onboard for this:

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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Post by tennbengal »

Um, the capitol officer who died was beaten to death with a fire extinguisher.
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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

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tennbengal wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:08 am Um, the capitol officer who died was beaten to death with a fire extinguisher.
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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Post by psunate77 »

So they are looking for people who stormed the Capital and smoked weed inside, took photos at the chambers, and sat in office desks, and rightfully so, but why aren't they arresting Rudy for "Trial by Combat" comment right before, Don J "Lets Go Fight" comment, Lin Wood who openly said Mike pence needed shot, and Michael Flynn for telling Proud Boys to stand up to the liberals for inciting and threats against the government?
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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

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Johnnie wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:27 am
A promising economic future for themselves and their kids?

A feeling of social belonging?
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Post by tennbengal »

Three first hand accounts from NYT reporters who were in the Capitol. Should be read. One of them, she is lucky to be alive...

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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

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Steve of phpBB wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:43 amA promising economic future for themselves and their kids?
If this is the true reason, then its even more cause for Dems to embrace left positions, right? M4A, free daycare, free college ... all of those would directly work to fix the grievances you list out if those are the biggest drivers.
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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

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(Ignoring that the parody of MAGA as the poor, uneducated racist white dude hardly represents the whole of Trump's base, aside from the racist part.)
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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Post by MaxWebster »

this was actually terrifying to read, jesus.
tennbengal wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:45 am Three first hand accounts from NYT reporters who were in the Capitol. Should be read. One of them, she is lucky to be alive...

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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Post by A_B »

mister d wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:28 am
Steve of phpBB wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:43 amA promising economic future for themselves and their kids?
If this is the true reason, then its even more cause for Dems to embrace left positions, right? M4A, free daycare, free college ... all of those would directly work to fix the grievances you list out if those are the biggest drivers.
I was struggling with a way to respond to Steve. This is a big part of it. I come from a pretty poor area. Household income for my county around $30k. I remember doing my mom's taxes while I was in high school and she was making about $35k, plus our house was paid off and my grandfather also made a small amount and they bought most of the groceries while my mom paid all the bills. I never thought I was "poor." I was far better off than probably 75% of the people I graduated with. But we were poor, in hindsight. But we weren't on medicaid or other long-term government assistance that I know of, though I do seem to recall food stamps at certain times. But the weird thing I recall about them was that me and my cousins played with them and stuck them on everything, so they may have been old expired ones I guess. Or we were real assholes.

But what I got, that was missing from a whole lot of other families, was encouragement. I was a good student, sure, but I never once thought I wouldn't go off to college someday. It was just a given. My sister went off and never came back. I did the same, and that flabbergasted some of my mom's friends and she told them the same thing: "Why would they come back here, there's nothing for them here."

So it has to go beyond financial support (though free college is certainly an good way to encourage) to career counseling. And planned parenthood (having a kid with your high school sweetheart at 18 or 20 isn't usually the best plan). And just general education that there's a whole world out there, even if your Mom's feelings may get hurt that you're moving away.

I've got some friends who stayed that I see on facebook. They seem to be doing well. But so many of them are doctors or dentists or nurse or teachers or small business owners that give back to the community and seem happy. Far more people I went to high school with have surely fallen by the wayside and live in extreme poverty. There aren't easy answers, but the best ones for these areas do come in progressive policies.
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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

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mister d wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:28 am
Steve of phpBB wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:43 amA promising economic future for themselves and their kids?
If this is the true reason, then its even more cause for Dems to embrace left positions, right? M4A, free daycare, free college ... all of those would directly work to fix the grievances you list out if those are the biggest drivers.
Logically, sure, but to the majority of poor, Southern Republicans, those things go to minorities, too, so they see it as them paying for minorities to get free stuff. I think a major disconnect, and it's an intentional ploy by the GOP, is making poor white people believe they are (or will soon be) wealthy, and fight against benefits that would serve to help them.
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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Post by Brontoburglar »

an increased increase on the importance and accessibility of vocational training would go a LONG way in this country. maybe even more than "free college for everyone."
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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Post by P.D.X. »

Steve of phpBB wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:43 am
Johnnie wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:27 am
A promising economic future for themselves and their kids?

A feeling of social belonging?
...the traditional privileges of their race, the feeling they're 'on top', and the freedom to hate minorities as they wish
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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

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mister d wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:28 am
Steve of phpBB wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:43 amA promising economic future for themselves and their kids?
If this is the true reason, then its even more cause for Dems to embrace left positions, right? M4A, free daycare, free college ... all of those would directly work to fix the grievances you list out if those are the biggest drivers.
Sadly, no. Your reasoning assumes that these people vote based on a rational assessment of each party's policy platforms and the effects such policies would have on their lives. But if that were the case, these people would have been voting Democrat for the past several decades, because the Democrats have *always* promoted economic policies that were better for the blue collar white working class and rural whites. (With one huge exception, see below.) These folks were probably the biggest beneficiaries of the ACA as well as Dem programs like job retraining assistance, relocation assistance, extended unemployment, the EITC, etc.

If the Dems embraced hard left positions like M4A, they'd go right back into the minority. The last thing these people will vote for is "we'll raise your taxes to give more free stuff to illegal immigrants and lazy Blacks who won't work for it themselves." Those 23,000 former Republicans in WI, GA, and AZ who gave Biden the presidency would have voted for Trump, and Trump would be planning his second inaugural address right now.

The big exception is environmental policy. It's possible that if the Dems said "Sorry, we were wrong all along, and we will never again pursue policies to rein in coal use or oil and gas drilling or regulations on agricultural wastewater or logging old-growth forests (and we're sorry about all the gun control stuff too)," then perhaps the Dems could appeal to this class of voters.

(In response to your follow-up, I'm not talking about the hard-core racist types. As Hillary Clinton said, that half of Trump's base goes in the basket of deplorables and cannot be helped or reached. I'm taking about the other half, the "people who feel the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures; and they're just desperate for change. It doesn't really even matter where it comes from. They don't buy everything he says, but – he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won't wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they're in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well.")
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

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A_B wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:43 amSo it has to go beyond financial support (though free college is certainly an good way to encourage) to career counseling. And planned parenthood (having a kid with your high school sweetheart at 18 or 20 isn't usually the best plan). And just general education that there's a whole world out there, even if your Mom's feelings may get hurt that you're moving away.
Brontoburglar wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:45 am an increased increase on the importance and accessibility of vocational training would go a LONG way in this country. maybe even more than "free college for everyone."
The Dems have been promoting all of these things for years. But they are mixed in with cultural issues and that is what so many people vote on.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

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Your answer is creating an amalgamation that doesn't have a solid job but is deathly concern with taxes and also has no bias related reasons for voting Republican.
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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

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mister d wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:11 am Your answer is creating an amalgamation that doesn't have a solid job but is deathly concern with taxes.
Most of these people have jobs, and pay taxes.

And my point is that these folks aren't going to be pulling out calculators to figure out the costs and benefits of the Dem platform and the R platform. They're going to say "you can't give my money to those people."
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

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Who are "those people" in the half you specified aren't racist?
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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

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Fellow Swamp esquires. Help me out.

Regarding the murder of the Capitol Hill officer. Co-conspirators can be charged/convicted for crimes committed by other co-conspirators assuming those crimes are foreseeable. With that in mind, couldn’t a legal argument be made that many if not all people associated with the storming be charged in that murder, not merely the shitbag who struck him?*




* I was considering making a Len Koenecke crack but it’s way too soon.
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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

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Steve of phpBB wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:00 am The Dems have been promoting all of these things for years. But they are mixed in with cultural issues and that is what so many people vote on.
promoting and implementing are two different things -- and I say that knowing full well that the Democrats have not been the legislative party in power for the majority of the last decade
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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

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tennbengal wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:49 pm I mean, these are not hard dots to connect, y'all.
Exactly. And I truly think leaving the bulk of the line of succession open to attack is a criminal act. These fuckers need to be trotted out, exposed, and prosecute. Even if it's just the first two, that needs to happen.

This was worse than 9/11 in terms of security failures. We knew this was going to happen, and they conspired to make it even worse.
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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

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mister d wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:18 am Who are "those people" in the half you specified aren't racist?
Several of my in-laws, relatives, and clients and people I have met through them.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

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What a POS
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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

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L-Jam3 wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:23 am Fellow Swamp esquires. Help me out.

Regarding the murder of the Capitol Hill officer. Co-conspirators can be charged/convicted for crimes committed by other co-conspirators assuming those crimes are foreseeable. With that in mind, couldn’t a legal argument be made that many if not all people associated with the storming be charged in that murder, not merely the shitbag who struck him?*




* I was considering making a Len Koenecke crack but it’s way too soon.
It's possible they could go with a felony murder charge. When, it the act of committing a felony an unintended person dies, a conspirator in the act of the felony can be charged with intentional murder. Not sure if there is a federal version of felony murder, and I don't see that as a likely charge to all the shitbags who stormed the Capitol, but it's possible.
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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Post by brian »

Anyone criticizing either the decision to impeach Trump or the timing is missing one important Constitutional point. If Trump is impeached and convicted in the Senate - even after he has left office — he can never hold federal office again.

So don’t be surprised if the Senate rounds up the 67 votes after Biden is inaugurated.
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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

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Yeah, read that NYT article and ask if that's terrorism or not.

JFC.
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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Post by govmentchedda »

L-Jam3 wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:23 am Fellow Swamp esquires. Help me out.

Regarding the murder of the Capitol Hill officer. Co-conspirators can be charged/convicted for crimes committed by other co-conspirators assuming those crimes are foreseeable. With that in mind, couldn’t a legal argument be made that many if not all people associated with the storming be charged in that murder, not merely the shitbag who struck him?*




* I was considering making a Len Koenecke crack but it’s way too soon.
Yes, it's called felony murder. You drive a car for a friend to steal some shoes from someone. Scuffle ensues, your friend shoots shoe owner, driver can get charged with felony murder.

I'm not the biggest fan of that law, but I assume it can and should be applied here.
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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

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The truly enraged and vindictive part of me wants them to just load up on charges for everyone they can find, just to bankrupt those fucking traitors.
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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Post by tennbengal »

Nonlinear FC wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:34 am
tennbengal wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:49 pm I mean, these are not hard dots to connect, y'all.
Exactly. And I truly think leaving the bulk of the line of succession open to attack is a criminal act. These fuckers need to be trotted out, exposed, and prosecute. Even if it's just the first two, that needs to happen.

This was worse than 9/11 in terms of security failures. We knew this was going to happen, and they conspired to make it even worse.
I mean, it’s clear as can be, right? This was setup.
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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Post by Steve of phpBB »

govmentchedda wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:57 am
L-Jam3 wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:23 am Fellow Swamp esquires. Help me out.

Regarding the murder of the Capitol Hill officer. Co-conspirators can be charged/convicted for crimes committed by other co-conspirators assuming those crimes are foreseeable. With that in mind, couldn’t a legal argument be made that many if not all people associated with the storming be charged in that murder, not merely the shitbag who struck him?*




* I was considering making a Len Koenecke crack but it’s way too soon.
Yes, it's called felony murder. You drive a car for a friend to steal some shoes from someone. Scuffle ensues, your friend shoots shoe owner, driver can get charged with felony murder.

I'm not the biggest fan of that law, but I assume it can and should be applied here.
I'm old enough to remember when we wanted the police defunded, the carceral state was bad, and prosecutors who over-charged defendants based on ambiguously applicable statutes were among the most disgraceful lawyers there were.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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