Happy Inauguration Day (and beyond- The Biden Presidency Thread part I)

[Johnnie]

I'm not debating you on this topic. The message wasn't clear. It was avoidable. The Democrats could've clearly said "we're going to add $1,400 to the $600 you've already received once we're in power" but did not do that.

[EnochRoot]

Sounds to me that's Ossoff and Warnock looking to gain quick points with folks who are not going to be holding them accountable, especially once the amount the stimulus checks provide is known later this year.

I'm not saying that's the wrong move. Just opportunistic.

[psunate77]

Sounds to me that's Ossoff and Warnock looking to gain quick points with folks who are not going to be holding them accountable, especially once the amount the stimulus checks provide is known later this year.

I'm not saying that's the wrong move. Just opportunistic.

If Dems don’t push 2k through there is a good chance they lose control of everything in 2022.

[EnochRoot]

Sounds to me that's Ossoff and Warnock looking to gain quick points with folks who are not going to be holding them accountable, especially once the amount the stimulus checks provide is known later this year.

I'm not saying that's the wrong move. Just opportunistic.

If Dems don’t push 2k through there is a good chance they lose control of everything in 2022.

Huh? There's more stimulus checks to come.

[psunate77]

Sounds to me that's Ossoff and Warnock looking to gain quick points with folks who are not going to be holding them accountable, especially once the amount the stimulus checks provide is known later this year.

I'm not saying that's the wrong move. Just opportunistic.

If Dems don’t push 2k through there is a good chance they lose control of everything in 2022.

Huh? There's more stimulus checks to come.

When? They ran to get majority on 2k checks and immediate help. So far neither have happened. Seems like
Impeachment has overtaken that as #1.

Dems better be very careful with this impeachment hearing. The Repubs won a lot of seats in Congress this past year and are projected to win the house in 2022. People like Obama and Clinton could be impeached.

[Steve of phpBB]

No one is going to remember 600+1400 vs 600+2000 in November 2022. If things are mostly back to normal and the economy feels strong, the Dems will be fine on economic issues.

The unforced error(s) that are most likely to cost the Dems the majority are things like the Harriet Tubman twenty dollar bill. Every day, millions of white people will have a vivid reminder that they’re losing their special place and that the Dems don’t care.

But that’s all right. The Dems take power, immediately do liberal stuff, and lose power. It’s the cycle of life. I just hope Breyer retires while the Dems still have power. (And the bubble-wrap we were using for RBG needs to be used for Sherrod Brown.)

[L-Jam3]

"Capitol Officer Brian Sicknick" should be the "but her emails" for the next four years. It sucks that the left has too many principles to do that.

[psunate77]

Here is the breakdown of the Relief package the Repubs want that cost $600M

It's awful

[EnochRoot]

Sounds to me that's Ossoff and Warnock looking to gain quick points with folks who are not going to be holding them accountable, especially once the amount the stimulus checks provide is known later this year.

I'm not saying that's the wrong move. Just opportunistic.

If Dems don’t push 2k through there is a good chance they lose control of everything in 2022.

Huh? There's more stimulus checks to come.

When? They ran to get majority on 2k checks and immediate help. So far neither have happened. Seems like
Impeachment has overtaken that as #1.

Dems better be very careful with this impeachment hearing. The Repubs won a lot of seats in Congress this past year and are projected to win the house in 2022. People like Obama and Clinton could be impeached.

First, false dilemma. Don’t confuse stimulus packaging with impeachment.

Second, how are they projected to win the House during a November 2022 election? It’s February 1st, 2020.

As for the stimulus packaging? Look at what’s happening to Manchin in WV. Harris’ local TV interview and their very own governor, Jim Justice is behind the much larger stimulus packaging. Careful Steve, you don’t want to get primary’d out of your seat.

[psunate77]

This is fucked up. Aren’t the Dems in control??

[The Sybian]

This is fucked up. Aren’t the Dems in control??

As long as there is a filibuster, Republicans can stop a vote on most issues unless it is something that specifies only 50% required. Having the Senate majority means the Dems can set the agenda on what gets to a vote, but unless ever Dem and 10 Republicans agree to actually to not be obstructionist assholes, nothing gets done.

[Johnnie]

Does the filibuster only exist when Democrats are in power or did they use it as a minority party?

[Steve of phpBB]

This is fucked up. Aren’t the Dems in control??

To be fair, we are only 45 months away from a presidential election. Garland will just have to wait until we see who wins.

[Steve of phpBB]

This is fucked up. Aren’t the Dems in control??

As long as there is a filibuster, Republicans can stop a vote on most issues unless it is something that specifies only 50% required. Having the Senate majority means the Dems can set the agenda on what gets to a vote, but unless ever Dem and 10 Republicans agree to actually to not be obstructionist assholes, nothing gets done.

Does the filibuster only exist when Democrats are in power or did they use it as a minority party?

The Dems used the filibuster also, especially the last couple of years, after the Republicans turned it into a routine move.

But I don't think the filibuster applies anymore to executive branch appointments. (That's how chuds like Jeff Sessions and Betsy DeVos got through even though all the Dems voted against them.) As I understand it, the problem right now is that the Senate hasn't approved the new Organizing Resolution, so the Rs still hold the chairmanships of the committees under the last resolution, before November/January elections.

I'm not sure why that wasn't approved. Last week McConnell said he dropped his objection when Sinema and Manchin said they wouldn't support eliminating the filibuster, and then everyone stopped talking about it.

[psunate77]

The Dems control the senate and it’s February 1st why is Graham still chairing a committee?

[Johnnie]

Let's Gooooooo!

[The Sybian]

The Dems control the senate and it’s February 1st why is Graham still chairing a committee?

Until they get 60 seats, controlling the Senate doesnt mean much. Not to mention, they havent approved the rules yet, so Mitch us still in control.

[DSafetyGuy]

Let's Gooooooo!

Needs to include a lot of people walking out of prison.

[psunate77]

The Dems control the senate and it’s February 1st why is Graham still chairing a committee?

Until they get 60 seats, controlling the Senate doesnt mean much. Not to mention, they havent approved the rules yet, so Mitch us still in control.

So in other words they are going to drag this as long as possible.. Might as well darn it until 2022 and never have the Dems control the senate. The whole Georgia based election for the two senate seats met nothing in reality?

I still worry about Manchin and/or Sinema switching parties and Mitch taking over again.

[Steve of phpBB]

The Dems control the senate and it’s February 1st why is Graham still chairing a committee?

Until they get 60 seats, controlling the Senate doesnt mean much. Not to mention, they havent approved the rules yet, so Mitch us still in control.

So in other words they are going to drag this as long as possible.. Might as well darn it until 2022 and never have the Dems control the senate. The whole Georgia based election for the two senate seats met nothing in reality?

I still worry about Manchin and/or Sinema switching parties and Mitch taking over again.

Or a Dem Senator in a red state dying or having a massive scandal or health issue.

The only reason the Senate is 50-50 now is because Johnny Isakson, who was re-elected in Georgia in 2016, resigned for health reasons at the end of 2019. That's what led to the appointment of Loeffler and her replacement by Warnock. If he hadn't resigned (and apparently he's still alive over a year later), the Republicans would still have at least 51 seats.

[psunate77]

So if you made 50K or more in 2019 you won't get the 1400?

WTF bullshit is that when people were effected by the pandemic in 2020 and lost wages. Who cares what they made in 2019.

[Steve of phpBB]

So if you made 50K or more in 2019 you won't get the 1400?

WTF bullshit is that when people were effected by the pandemic in 2020 and lost wages. Who cares what they made in 2019.

I think the phaseout is at 75K.

The vast majority of people either did not lose wages, or received unemployment compensation to make them up. It's crazy wasteful to just send every American $2000 when so many people don't need it - at least not for pandemic related reasons.

I would prefer that instead of a phaseout based on 2019 income, they have a surcharge based on 2020 or 2021 income. In other words, if you make more than a certain amount in 2020 or 2021, you will have to pay extra in taxes to repay the stimulus check.

[psunate77]

So if you made 50K or more in 2019 you won't get the 1400?

WTF bullshit is that when people were effected by the pandemic in 2020 and lost wages. Who cares what they made in 2019.

I think the phaseout is at 75K.

The vast majority of people either did not lose wages, or received unemployment compensation to make them up. It's crazy wasteful to just send every American $2000 when so many people don't need it - at least not for pandemic related reasons.

I would prefer that instead of a phaseout based on 2019 income, they have a surcharge based on 2020 or 2021 income. In other words, if you make more than a certain amount in 2020 or 2021, you will have to pay extra in taxes to repay the stimulus check.

But Biden promised "Every American" 2K.. Georgia Dems ran their senate candidates on 2K checks.. Now not only are people not getting 2K, not everyone is getting them.

[Steve of phpBB]

So if you made 50K or more in 2019 you won't get the 1400?

WTF bullshit is that when people were effected by the pandemic in 2020 and lost wages. Who cares what they made in 2019.

I think the phaseout is at 75K.

The vast majority of people either did not lose wages, or received unemployment compensation to make them up. It's crazy wasteful to just send every American $2000 when so many people don't need it - at least not for pandemic related reasons.

I would prefer that instead of a phaseout based on 2019 income, they have a surcharge based on 2020 or 2021 income. In other words, if you make more than a certain amount in 2020 or 2021, you will have to pay extra in taxes to repay the stimulus check.

But Biden promised "Every American" 2K.. Georgia Dems ran their senate candidates on 2K checks.. Now not only are people not getting 2K, not everyone is getting them.

Are you sure Biden promised that money to every American, including the rich? I just did some googling and didn't see that. I did see where he said he "supported $2,000 instead of $600 payments following a speech he gave Monday about the national security and foreign policy challenges his administration will face. As he walked off the stage, Biden was asked by a reporter if he supported the larger check amount and replied 'yes.'"

[mister d]

One true "both sides" issue is both parties' dedicated adherence to some sort of reverse Blackstone's Ratio when it comes to the working class. "Better to let ten families suffer from economic distress than give money to a family that may not be in desperate need."

[Steve of phpBB]

One true "both sides" issues is their dedicate adherence to some sort of reverse Blackstone's Ratio when it comes to the working class. "Better to let ten families suffer from economic distress than give money to a family that may not be in desperate need."

I guess it depends on how you define working class. A family with two kids who made less than $150K will get a full $8K. How many working class families earn more than $150K?

I can see the argument that the “single” phaseout should be higher than $75K, especially if that single taxpayer has kids. It seems to me the phaseout would be better tied to family size rather than number of taxpayers.

[mister d]

Even if you're that hung up on an upper-middle class family getting a (gasp) $8,000 windfall, just fucking tax it on the backend against current year earnings.

[The Sybian]

So if you made 50K or more in 2019 you won't get the 1400?

WTF bullshit is that when people were effected by the pandemic in 2020 and lost wages. Who cares what they made in 2019.

I think the phaseout is at 75K.

The vast majority of people either did not lose wages, or received unemployment compensation to make them up. It's crazy wasteful to just send every American $2000 when so many people don't need it - at least not for pandemic related reasons.

I would prefer that instead of a phaseout based on 2019 income, they have a surcharge based on 2020 or 2021 income. In other words, if you make more than a certain amount in 2020 or 2021, you will have to pay extra in taxes to repay the stimulus check.

But Biden promised "Every American" 2K.. Georgia Dems ran their senate candidates on 2K checks.. Now not only are people not getting 2K, not everyone is getting them.

Nobody ever promised "every American" would get stimulus checks. There was an income cutoff on the first stimulus checks, and there was always, as far as everything I read and heard, an income cutoff on the proposed second waive of stimulus checks. I didn't realize the cutoff was so much lower on the second round.

[Steve of phpBB]

I’m not hung up on one upper middle-class family getting $8K.

I’m hung up on millions of such families getting those windfalls and the waste of billions of dollars. Your kids don’t need to be paying higher taxes until 2050 to give me more money. And I doubt my kids need to be paying those taxes to give you money.

If we are going to put that burden on them, let’s do it to fight climate change.

[The Sybian]

I’m not hung up on one upper middle-class family getting $8K.

I’m hung up on millions of such families getting those windfalls and the waste of billions of dollars. Your kids don’t need to be paying higher taxes until 2050 to give me more money. And I doubt my kids need to be paying those taxes to give you money.

If we are going to put that burden on them, let’s do it to fight climate change.

Yeah, I agree. I guess it'd be ok to get the money now and then have to pay it back in taxes, but that's really annoying. Would have been a huge win for the GOP to tell everyone they gave you money, then blame Biden when you have to pay it back. Kind of like the tax breaks they gave where they reduced payroll deductions but you had to pay it back at the end of they year, and kept flaunting that Republicans made your take home pay higher, and people freaked out when they owed more at the end of the year.

[mister d]

So even though we acknowledge there are plenty of individuals and families that made over the proposed thresholds who need help, its not worth it because of (1) 2050 taxes on our children and (2) mid-April 2022 annoyances.

[mister d]

And of course, there was a fraction of this scrutiny when the initial bill was passed and $2.3T was steered towards companies. The loan given to Tom Brady Inc. could have provided for 500 truly in need or "more in need than Tom Brady" adults with $2,000.

[Steve of phpBB]

So even though we acknowledge there are plenty of individuals and families that made over the proposed thresholds who need help, its not worth it because of (1) 2050 taxes on our children and (2) mid-April 2022 annoyances.

1. Define “plenty.” There are obviously some. I think that number is relatively small.

2. It’s not about annoyances. It’s about setting priorities.

3. Yes, obviously there’s more scrutiny now than there was in the initial emergency legislation. We learn from our mistakes. But even that PPP money going to Tom Brady has to be paid back if it’s not used to pay employees and fundamental expenses (with a cap on how much credit one can get per employee).

On that, I find it curious that he same people saying “the government should pay people’s salaries” are the ones yelling the loudest when the government pays rich employers to do that.

[mister d]

1. Define “plenty.” There are obviously some. I think that number is relatively small.

You think there are relatively few people who made $50,000 in 2019 who are struggling right now?

2. It’s not about annoyances. It’s about setting priorities.

Clearly.

3. Yes, obviously there’s more scrutiny now than there was in the initial emergency legislation. We learn from our mistakes. But even that PPP money going to Tom Brady has to be paid back if it’s not used to pay employees and fundamental expenses (with a cap on how much credit one can get per employee).

On that, I find it curious that he same people saying “the government should pay people’s salaries” are the ones yelling the loudest when the government pays rich employers to do that.

Explain to me the employee retention requirements and audit processes in place here to ensure the money was properly passed through. And do you think 2019 revenue would be a good indicator of 2020 pandemic need?

[Steve of phpBB]

My understanding is that if you made up to $75k in 2019, you get the full amount. Then it starts phasing out so that you get zero if you made more than $100,000.

Yes I think the number of people whose income exceeded those limits in 2019 and also significantly lost income in 2020-21 and didn’t benefit from expanded unemployment and didn’t benefit from restrictions on evictions or other aid programs and can’t reasonably expect to go back to making $100k once the pandemic passes is relatively small.

Regarding employee retention requirements and audit procedures, I don’t know the details. But I know you at least have to provide financials and reports signed under penalty of perjury because my firm just did that.

[mister d]

So you received stimulus?

[Steve of phpBB]

So you received stimulus?

We received PPP funds. Saved at least two jobs.

Even though our office has been closed since March, we’ve kept our receptionist on full time and full pay. We would’ve laid her off without PPP, plus at least one secretary.

[A_B]

Stimulus isn’t PPP. I would imagine you made enough to not qualify for any of the stimulus if I’m being honest. So it feels like that is coloring some of your responses.

[mister d]

We received PPP funds. Saved at least two jobs.

Even though our office has been closed since March, we’ve kept our receptionist on full time and full pay. We would’ve laid her off without PPP, plus at least one secretary.

And how much would their 2019 salaries from you have factored into their 2020-2021 needs?

[BSF21]

We got a partial payment of the first round. It was fucking absurd. As I understand it I just owe it back now. Why can’t we do that again? You talk about priorities. This is simple. One payment against your 2020 earnings and pay it back on your 2021 taxes. Every adult in America. Shouldn’t be that hard to figure out.