Top Shots
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- The Dude
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Top Shots
Fuck all this noise.
Growing old sucks, but the crypto whatever thing is definitely making me get off my lawn old.
In case you are wondering what old-man-yells-at-cloud is yelling about and have managed to stay blissfully unaware, Defector has a primer:
https://defector.com/nba-top-shot-story/
Growing old sucks, but the crypto whatever thing is definitely making me get off my lawn old.
In case you are wondering what old-man-yells-at-cloud is yelling about and have managed to stay blissfully unaware, Defector has a primer:
https://defector.com/nba-top-shot-story/
Re: Top Shots
I’ve had a running ... something ... with a friend about whether this is “the new direction of sports cards” or “the dumbest possible bubble”. But also I just can’t wrap my head around the concept.
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- The Dude
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Re: Top Shots
I think it legitimately pisses me off.
Re: Top Shots
At least that was better than the article I read earlier that tried to explain NFTs.
I felt aswirl with warm secretions.
Re: Top Shots
“So for $80,000, I’d own the copyright?”
“Oh no, absolutely not.”
“But this would be the only version so it would be like one of a kind?”
“Nope. Over a hundred others out there.”
“... ... ...”
“Oh no, absolutely not.”
“But this would be the only version so it would be like one of a kind?”
“Nope. Over a hundred others out there.”
“... ... ...”
Re: Top Shots
This is dumb but I mean it's not like there's only one Mickey Mantle card.
Pack a vest for your james in the city of intercourse
Re: Top Shots
Right, but having one from 1965 is an inherently limited asset which is the bulk of the value. A new video of Mickey Mantle, one that is on the internet anyway but now says Topps in the framing, wouldn’t (shouldn’t) have inherent value, right?
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Re: Top Shots
It’s the dumbest thing.
My gall is sufficiently mitigated. Thank you for your concern.
Re: Top Shots
Jesus, my impression was based on stuff that doesn’t include “you can’t withdraw your earnings”. I had read a defector article maybe a week ago hit but not the one linked.
Re: Top Shots
Been listening to Sports Cards Nonsense on The Ringer Podcast Network and they mentioned this Top Shot thing and I just can't wrap my head around the point of it. Actually sports cards (amongst many collectibles) are having a surge right now.
This is what Mark Cuban has to say about it.
Fundamentally because the next wave of everything is going to be Blockchain, and this is a Blockchain asset (like cryptocurrencies), it is therefore worth money.
Soooooo... it's NBAHighlightCoin? That's about the best I can come up with.
But on the blockchain thing, when IBM is utilizing it for Supply Chain Management related things, you know that's a big deal. But that makes sense because it's a means of oversight, production, and all other intricate facets of logistics.
This is what Mark Cuban has to say about it.
Fundamentally because the next wave of everything is going to be Blockchain, and this is a Blockchain asset (like cryptocurrencies), it is therefore worth money.
Soooooo... it's NBAHighlightCoin? That's about the best I can come up with.
But on the blockchain thing, when IBM is utilizing it for Supply Chain Management related things, you know that's a big deal. But that makes sense because it's a means of oversight, production, and all other intricate facets of logistics.
mister d wrote:Couldn't have pegged me better.
EnochRoot wrote:I mean, whatever. Johnnie's all hot cuz I ride him.
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Re: Top Shots
The thing that they mentioned on the 31 Thoughts hockey pod was that the fact that the league or teams can get paid every time one of these changes hands might be a way for the league to ensure that they get a piece of the secondary ticket market revenue. Thought that was interesting.
Until everything is less insane, I'm mixing weed with wine.
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- The Dude
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Re: Top Shots
But why can’t you withdraw your money?
I am so lost on this.
I am so lost on this.
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Re: Top Shots
Probably a few weeks away from the first lawsuit.
Someone going to wonder why they spent $40,000 on a clip of a Kawhi Leonard jump shot.
Someone going to wonder why they spent $40,000 on a clip of a Kawhi Leonard jump shot.
"beautiful, with an exotic-yet-familiar facial structure and an arresting gaze."
Re: Top Shots
Love it.
Well, more specifically, I love its potential as a collector’s market. As a securities market, not so much. I’ve been less than impressed with the execution so far, but somebody out there is going to get the concept right eventually.
Well, more specifically, I love its potential as a collector’s market. As a securities market, not so much. I’ve been less than impressed with the execution so far, but somebody out there is going to get the concept right eventually.
Re: Top Shots
To me, anything that people want to collect is going to have value in that context. I've made myself comfortable that people *might* want to collect Top Shots and so I've stopped asking myself why. It's really not different from why people collect baseball cards--it's exciting to open a pack, sports are fun and make people happy, and you know there are other collectors out there that might pay you for your cards later on.Johnnie wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:50 am Been listening to Sports Cards Nonsense on The Ringer Podcast Network and they mentioned this Top Shot thing and I just can't wrap my head around the point of it. Actually sports cards (amongst many collectibles) are having a surge right now.
This is what Mark Cuban has to say about it.
Fundamentally because the next wave of everything is going to be Blockchain, and this is a Blockchain asset (like cryptocurrencies), it is therefore worth money.
Soooooo... it's NBAHighlightCoin? That's about the best I can come up with.
But on the blockchain thing, when IBM is utilizing it for Supply Chain Management related things, you know that's a big deal. But that makes sense because it's a means of oversight, production, and all other intricate facets of logistics.
The part that I struggle with is the closed platform. It's obviously quite different from being able to buy and sell in thousands of hobby shops and card shows. It seems like the potential market of collectors goes away if Dapper can't stay in business or if it can't support its product. That's also the part that leads to a lot of regulatory/legal risk.
Re: Top Shots
As dumb as an idea as this is for sports highlights, it makes a lot more sense for music.
I'm all for anything that can make bands some money and would pay $20 if bands like Lucero or DBT, etc. decided to go down this road for album releases.
I'm all for anything that can make bands some money and would pay $20 if bands like Lucero or DBT, etc. decided to go down this road for album releases.
Bandwagon fan of the 2023 STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS!
Re: Top Shots
This is what I can't do, because you can construct a fake market for literally anything if you want. Like BreweryFans or something where you bid to be a fan of specific breweries and the only thing you get in return is the knowledge that you hold this? And it could just go away and you're out however much money you paid to just be an official, in this little market's eyes, fan? Any of these I make up in my head are dumb, but I struggle to see how it's inherently any dumber than paying money for a video that exists to be seen elsewhere.
Re: Top Shots
You're also describing money
he’s a fixbking cyborg or some shit. The
holy fuckbAllZ, what a ducking nightmare. Holy shot. Just, fuck. The
holy fuckbAllZ, what a ducking nightmare. Holy shot. Just, fuck. The
Re: Top Shots
You've also described Green Bay Packers "stock". Completely worthless except for being able to tell people you own it.mister d wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:12 amThis is what I can't do, because you can construct a fake market for literally anything if you want. Like BreweryFans or something where you bid to be a fan of specific breweries and the only thing you get in return is the knowledge that you hold this? And it could just go away and you're out however much money you paid to just be an official, in this little market's eyes, fan? Any of these I make up in my head are dumb, but I struggle to see how it's inherently any dumber than paying money for a video that exists to be seen elsewhere.
Bandwagon fan of the 2023 STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS!
Re: Top Shots
When I can walk into The New Hampshire Map Emporium and buy a map with "Julius Randle Gets Whistled for Travelling" just as easily as I can with money, I'll consider them similar.
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Re: Top Shots
Exactly what I was going to say. Dumbest waste of money, but I can sort of understand that. I "own" a tiny plot of land at the Laphroaig distillery, but it was free. I wasted the 3 minutes to register on their website, don't think I ever printed the deed. I wouldn't have spent a dollar on that, and never bothered to register more (you used to get a free plot with every bottle purchased). More important, you used to get points for every bottle and I ended up getting a free set of Laphroig Glencairn glasses.brian wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:30 amYou've also described Green Bay Packers "stock". Completely worthless except for being able to tell people you own it.mister d wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:12 amThis is what I can't do, because you can construct a fake market for literally anything if you want. Like BreweryFans or something where you bid to be a fan of specific breweries and the only thing you get in return is the knowledge that you hold this? And it could just go away and you're out however much money you paid to just be an official, in this little market's eyes, fan? Any of these I make up in my head are dumb, but I struggle to see how it's inherently any dumber than paying money for a video that exists to be seen elsewhere.
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Re: Top Shots
I guess I mean that we would have said the same thing about pieces of paper having value whenever that was decided. Beads, bitcoin, mushroom bisque recipes... No intrinsic value - can be theoretically manufactured whenever the people in charge want to manufacture it. A store could absolutely start selling goods in exchange for highlight videos today if they wanted to and it would make just as much sense to me except one's been around for centuries.
he’s a fixbking cyborg or some shit. The
holy fuckbAllZ, what a ducking nightmare. Holy shot. Just, fuck. The
holy fuckbAllZ, what a ducking nightmare. Holy shot. Just, fuck. The
Re: Top Shots
I feel like we had a similar discussion on why people value gold so highly. I think Jerloma brought it up. Where we as a species collectively said "yeah, this particular metal, that while it has some practical applications, we are going to value it higher than others because we can hammer it into jewelry".
I'm not going to get into Top Shots, but I don't necessarily have anything against it. It's a little crass that it was created as a valued collectible, instead of say something like comic books that have other utility, but in the grand scheme of things, it's not really much different than credit default swaps, with a much lower barrier of entry. An intangible item that people are willing to agree that has value.
You know, comparing it to credit default swaps kinda blunts my argument...
I'm not going to get into Top Shots, but I don't necessarily have anything against it. It's a little crass that it was created as a valued collectible, instead of say something like comic books that have other utility, but in the grand scheme of things, it's not really much different than credit default swaps, with a much lower barrier of entry. An intangible item that people are willing to agree that has value.
You know, comparing it to credit default swaps kinda blunts my argument...
My avatar corresponds on my place in the Swamp posting list with the all-time Home Run list. Number 45 is Paul Konerko with 439.
Re: Top Shots
Right, metals make total sense to me. Some are rarer than others. Some can be used to make things that are really important (or pretty!). And you just can't print palladium or upload more gold to the cloud or whatever the fuck. A nugget of gold with color streaks that spell "FUCK FACE" on it would be $70 billion. I get that.
he’s a fixbking cyborg or some shit. The
holy fuckbAllZ, what a ducking nightmare. Holy shot. Just, fuck. The
holy fuckbAllZ, what a ducking nightmare. Holy shot. Just, fuck. The
Re: Top Shots
this?
I could have sworn there was what I thought a pretty ugly argument about gold between howard and someone at some point. Maybe it was the discussion with shirley he alludes to there. If so, it may have predated thisSwamp.
I felt aswirl with warm secretions.
Re: Top Shots
I wouldn't focus too much on what the current Top Shot product looks like or what you can do with it, because that will evolve over time. The only question is whether it's something that people might want to collect. I don't think the answer is a definite yes, but there is a decent track record for people wanting to collect sports memorabilia. Totally aside from the investment aspect, there is some sentimental value--"hey, remember these ugly uniforms"--that I think may appeal to collectors.mister d wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:12 amThis is what I can't do, because you can construct a fake market for literally anything if you want. Like BreweryFans or something where you bid to be a fan of specific breweries and the only thing you get in return is the knowledge that you hold this? And it could just go away and you're out however much money you paid to just be an official, in this little market's eyes, fan? Any of these I make up in my head are dumb, but I struggle to see how it's inherently any dumber than paying money for a video that exists to be seen elsewhere.
Full disclosure: I've spent ~$30 on three packs. I don't think I believe in it enough to spend, say, $300, but I'm pretty happy to let my $30 ride.
Re: Top Shots
Maybe that's part of it too, that its not a physical collection. If I want to collect baseball cards and Topps goes out of business, I still have my cards. The market risk is devaluation, not complete disappearance.
Re: Top Shots
I think the market risk is that Dapper & the NBA fail to build a community around the product, either because the website sucks, or they can’t control bots, or they just fail to cater to the interests of casual fans & collectors as opposed to speculators. That’s a real risk. Without the fan/collector element, it just becomes an indirect way to speculate in crypto, and either people will lose interest or the regulators will crack down.
Re: Top Shots
The Football Index crash: ‘More akin to a Ponzi scheme than a betting platform’
Re: Top Shots
Here's how I see this, at it's essense:
1. People have way too much money. This is probably a canary-in-a-coal-mine type of thing for wealth inequality.
2. Most things just have an arbitrary assigned value. Even gold. Who cares if your currency is backed by goal? What if one day people decide gold is stupid?
3. This is like crypto-blockchain stuff but applied outside of crypto-currencies. Blockchain verification of ownership of "virtual" items is probably where a lot of things are going to head in the future as we move more online 'n shit. Yes, this is dumb, but so were onion futures. Eventually it will probably get less stupid.
EDIT: Shit, yinz already talked about gold etc.
1. People have way too much money. This is probably a canary-in-a-coal-mine type of thing for wealth inequality.
2. Most things just have an arbitrary assigned value. Even gold. Who cares if your currency is backed by goal? What if one day people decide gold is stupid?
3. This is like crypto-blockchain stuff but applied outside of crypto-currencies. Blockchain verification of ownership of "virtual" items is probably where a lot of things are going to head in the future as we move more online 'n shit. Yes, this is dumb, but so were onion futures. Eventually it will probably get less stupid.
EDIT: Shit, yinz already talked about gold etc.
Last edited by Gunpowder on Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Pack a vest for your james in the city of intercourse
Re: Top Shots
Well, that's a thing that you can't possibly own so it's only as good as the market-makers say it is. Which is definitely going to crash. This isn't the first time this has been offered either - I remember one from like 15 years ago that was cool but quickly fizzled.mister d wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:39 am The Football Index crash: ‘More akin to a Ponzi scheme than a betting platform’
Pack a vest for your james in the city of intercourse
Re: Top Shots
I would probably compare it to owning a signature that is actually 100% verifiably authentic.mister d wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:12 amThis is what I can't do, because you can construct a fake market for literally anything if you want. Like BreweryFans or something where you bid to be a fan of specific breweries and the only thing you get in return is the knowledge that you hold this? And it could just go away and you're out however much money you paid to just be an official, in this little market's eyes, fan? Any of these I make up in my head are dumb, but I struggle to see how it's inherently any dumber than paying money for a video that exists to be seen elsewhere.
There will be forgeries out there but in this care there's (I believe) something rather ironclad to prove it.
Pack a vest for your james in the city of intercourse
Re: Top Shots
My issue is still mainly that this is something that had no inherent value one day and then had millions the next, simply because people agreed to it. And while I still get that's how collectibles markets work, I still can't process why that wouldn't just downswing out of nowhere (like the soccer thing) or why the host site/company itself couldn't crash out, leaving no product.
Re: Top Shots
Back to the physical comps, there are trading cards out there that were once hot, then devalued to meaningless and now perking back up. Here, I'm not sure what confidence an owner should have in the devaluation phase not being terminal.
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Re: Top Shots
That's why I put all of my wealth in Beanie Babies and Pogs. They will never lose value.mister d wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:41 pm My issue is still mainly that this is something that had no inherent value one day and then had millions the next, simply because people agreed to it. And while I still get that's how collectibles markets work, I still can't process why that wouldn't just downswing out of nowhere (like the soccer thing) or why the host site/company itself couldn't crash out, leaving no product.
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Re: Top Shots
Feels like the entire economy is in a bubble and this kind of stuff is the canary in the coal mine. I have a bunch of futures in shorting the Dow and the NASDAQ that keep losing value but think I’m going to move some more money over to buy more because I think we’re in for a crash here eventually.
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Re: Top Shots
Yup. This is part of the reason why we need to tax the shit out of the rich. Good luck with that though.brian wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:30 pm Feels like the entire economy is in a bubble and this kind of stuff is the canary in the coal mine. I have a bunch of futures in shorting the Dow and the NASDAQ that keep losing value but think I’m going to move some more money over to buy more because I think we’re in for a crash here eventually.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
Re: Top Shots
I just don't get this whole thing. It's even dumber than investing in BitCoin.P.D.X. wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:24 pm Video clip that anyone can watch online for free sells for $6.6 mil.
Totally Kafkaesque
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Re: Top Shots
I am surprised this is your take.Shirley wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:43 pmI just don't get this whole thing. It's even dumber than investing in BitCoin.P.D.X. wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:24 pm Video clip that anyone can watch online for free sells for $6.6 mil.
My gall is sufficiently mitigated. Thank you for your concern.