Proud Parental Unit Crowing Thread

[brian]

I don't have kids, so maybe I'm not qualified to say but I think I'd want to spend as much time with them the first few months as I could and help my wife out, especially if I'm being paid all the while.

But that's just me.

[rass]

Intentionally or not, I think HC gets at the root here - all these rich and powerful guys complaining about this are doing so because they think paternal leave is going to make rich and powerful guys spend more money and they're willing to double down on regressive notions of masculinity to try to avoid spending more money. Also, going to bat for regressive notions of masculinity is sort of their thing anyway.

[The Sybian]

I don't have kids, so maybe I'm not qualified to say but I think I'd want to spend as much time with them the first few months as I could and help my wife out, especially if I'm being paid all the while.

But that's just me.

When my first child was born, I was working in a small law firm where the youngest partner was 65 and the rest were 75-80. I took a week off and they thought I was crazy. One of the partners didn't really hide his contempt. It's funny, because he was on his second marriage, married to the office manager who was about 50, and ruled him with an iron fist. Same guy who handed me a dictaphone on my first day and was confounded when I said I need to type when writing. "But... we have the girls to do that for you!" I will never comprehend how someone could write a legal document my talking into a tape recorder. Insane.

My wife felt pressure to return to work and took 6 weeks for each kid, and we put them in daycare at 6 weeks. Looking back, that seems pretty crazy, but they both turned out well. We could also afford a quality day care place where they kept the numbers low and provided great care. The monthly cost was probably more than the average woman earns in the US, so I don't know what people in low income jobs are supposed to do.

[A_B]

Well, we were pretty low income when our first was born, but we did put her into daycare at about 6 weeks. But when second was born it was actually cheaper for the woman to stay home, plus she watched our niece as well, which helped a bit.

ETA: I only took a week with each (Well, a bit over a week since both were scheduled C-sections on Thursdays) but I didn't have much choice as my company doesn't have a paternity leave (or at least didn't then) so I had to come to work to pay the bills.

[brian]

Well, we were pretty low income when our first was born, but we did put her into daycare at about 6 weeks. But when second was born it was actually cheaper for the woman to stay home, plus she watched our niece as well, which helped a bit.

ETA: I only took a week with each (Well, a bit over a week since both were scheduled C-sections on Thursdays) but I didn't have much choice as my company doesn't have a paternity leave (or at least didn't then) so I had to come to work to pay the bills.

Yeah, to be clear if it's unpaid leave that's a different story. At my old company (and at my new one too I guess, though everyone is beyond kid-having years for the most part), they offered three months paid paternity leave and everyone took it. I think you'd be a damn fool not to. These days if you're working for a company that's giving you a hard time about "letting the company down" or any bullshit like that you're working in the wrong place.

[pruitt2]

I don't have kids, so maybe I'm not qualified to say but I think I'd want to spend as much time with them the first few months as I could and help my wife out, especially if I'm being paid all the while.

But that's just me.

When my wife's first maternity leave was ending, the show I created went on hiatus for 4 months or so. I stayed home with my son and after a couple of months I decided that I'd rather stay home and raise him than return to work. Started freelance writing and have been home ever since.

My career definitely suffered, but I would not have done things differently.

[elflaco2]

Weighty topic.
i have 60 days paid leave tks to NY.. in the first year. i'll take it later
took PTO this week and next . working one hour/day to stay up to date on all going on --were about to announce (@GIFF -- look away) an internal restructure.. i'm once again taking over a mess to clean up. bad timing so only two weeks.

as for the thread topic..
third game on the road last night in the playoffs... they won on the 19th penalty.. some weird nj hs soccer rules... two five min extra time.. then pks.. std 5 each..all tied up.. our team kept the same five on.. the other, switched kids.. even going to the bench (so much for just the 11 on the pitch at end of game)..
the boy scored the 19th (he missed his first, scored the other 3) - video here: https://youtu.be/sECTcOsHaMM
final away (again) tomorrow.
was pretty cool to watch but superanxious for him. very happy it worked out. he played like a beast. other team was so much better but the whole team stepped up and shut them down.

[mister d]

was pretty cool to watch but superanxious for him.

I wasn't prepared for this part of parenting. Oldest was up with one out in extras last weekend and I was about to throw up knowing she was probably about to throw up.



(She walked and then they walked it off on the next batter.)

[A_B]

was pretty cool to watch but superanxious for him.

I wasn't prepared for this part of parenting. Oldest was up with one out in extras last weekend and I was about to throw up knowing she was probably about to throw up.



(She walked and then they walked it off on the next batter.)

You see, when I was playing, I don't ever remember getting nervous in this type of situation. I'd like to think it's because of all the scenarios I had recreated in my yard where I ended up being the hero, but in actuality it was because I knew deep down that success is relative and the big picture is important to keep in mind. Well, either that, or I just wasn't good enough to where people would expect me to be the hero so if I did succeed it was just bonus.

[HaulCitgo]

I don't have kids, so maybe I'm not qualified to say but I think I'd want to spend as much time with them the first few months as I could and help my wife out, especially if I'm being paid all the while.

But that's just me.

When my first child was born, I was working in a small law firm where the youngest partner was 65 and the rest were 75-80. I took a week off and they thought I was crazy. One of the partners didn't really hide his contempt. It's funny, because he was on his second marriage, married to the office manager who was about 50, and ruled him with an iron fist. Same guy who handed me a dictaphone on my first day and was confounded when I said I need to type when writing. "But... we have the girls to do that for you!" I will never comprehend how someone could write a legal document my talking into a tape recorder. Insane.

My wife felt pressure to return to work and took 6 weeks for each kid, and we put them in daycare at 6 weeks. Looking back, that seems pretty crazy, but they both turned out well. We could also afford a quality day care place where they kept the numbers low and provided great care. The monthly cost was probably more than the average woman earns in the US, so I don't know what people in low income jobs are supposed to do.

Low income jobs like working in a day care. Where they would give you zero paid maternity leave. Sucks to be poor.

[wlu_lax6]

Weighty topic.
i have 60 days paid leave tks to NY.. in the first year. i'll take it later
took PTO this week and next . working one hour/day to stay up to date on all going on --were about to announce (@GIFF -- look away) an internal restructure.. i'm once again taking over a mess to clean up. bad timing so only two weeks.

as for the thread topic..
third game on the road last night in the playoffs... they won on the 19th penalty.. some weird nj hs soccer rules... two five min extra time.. then pks.. std 5 each..all tied up.. our team kept the same five on.. the other, switched kids.. even going to the bench (so much for just the 11 on the pitch at end of game)..
the boy scored the 19th (he missed his first, scored the other 3) - video here: https://youtu.be/sECTcOsHaMM
final away (again) tomorrow.
was pretty cool to watch but superanxious for him. very happy it worked out. he played like a beast. other team was so much better but the whole team stepped up and shut them down.

So back in my days the MD high school rules were different. We were in the regional final (state quarterfinals). We went to PKs. Everyone on the field at the end of OT took a PK (so 11 for each team if not red cards).

[The Sybian]

was pretty cool to watch but superanxious for him.

I wasn't prepared for this part of parenting. Oldest was up with one out in extras last weekend and I was about to throw up knowing she was probably about to throw up.



(She walked and then they walked it off on the next batter.)

I experienced the downside of this a couple weeks ago. My daughter played a team they should have beaten handily. Incredibly windy conditions, and they just couldn't score. At one point, the other team had a free kick maybe 10 yards outside their own box. Girl put the ball down, took two steps back, and the ball suddenly took off backwards. She sprinted after it, and the ball went all the way to the fence behind the goal. Goal kicks were at least 25-2, possession maybe 80-20. Other team put up a long shot that got caught in the wind and sailed in over our goalie. Most frustrating game I've watched. Then with less than a minute to go, my daughter gets a long ball to her. She outran the defenders, and just beat the goalie to the ball. She took a one-touch volley off the first bounce right as the goalie slid and took out her legs. Shot went wide. Game ended 1-0, their only league loss. My heart just sank, knowing she would be devastated. Worse, the game was in Eastern Long Island, so we had a 3 hour trip home, an hour of it lining up to get on the George Washington Bridge. Just the worst patch of road to deal with in traffic. She was spent the rest of the week saying it's her fault they lost and she was convinced her coach hated her and would go off on her at practice. I haven't shown her the video yet, but you can tell she felt the goalie coming and turned away as she shot, causing her to shoot wide. Goalie took a bad angle and left the goal wide open.

It's funny, with my daughter, I'm always hoping she gets the chance in those situations, first time I can really remember her not coming through in a clutch moment in any sport. With my son, we were always hoping he didn't do anything to cost his team the game. In third grade, his baseball team made the finals, and my wife wanted to keep him home so he didn't blow it for the team and get traumatized. They won in spite of him and he was really proud.

[DSafetyGuy]

Intentionally or not, I think HC gets at the root here - all these rich and powerful guys complaining about this are doing so because they think paternal leave is going to make rich and powerful guys spend more money and they're willing to double down on regressive notions of masculinity to try to avoid spending more money. Also, going to bat for regressive notions of masculinity is sort of their thing anyway.

Rich people don't want poor people to know that the rich people make so much money, they can afford to pay the poor people to not work. Creates thoughts in the minds of the poor people about how much the rich people make off their labor and how they can afford to do things like give the poor people raises, better working conditions, (more) paid time off, etc.

[Nonlinear FC]

Weighty topic.
i have 60 days paid leave tks to NY.. in the first year. i'll take it later
took PTO this week and next . working one hour/day to stay up to date on all going on --were about to announce (@GIFF -- look away) an internal restructure.. i'm once again taking over a mess to clean up. bad timing so only two weeks.

as for the thread topic..
third game on the road last night in the playoffs... they won on the 19th penalty.. some weird nj hs soccer rules... two five min extra time.. then pks.. std 5 each..all tied up.. our team kept the same five on.. the other, switched kids.. even going to the bench (so much for just the 11 on the pitch at end of game)..
the boy scored the 19th (he missed his first, scored the other 3) - video here: https://youtu.be/sECTcOsHaMM
final away (again) tomorrow.
was pretty cool to watch but superanxious for him. very happy it worked out. he played like a beast. other team was so much better but the whole team stepped up and shut them down.

So back in my days the MD high school rules were different. We were in the regional final (state quarterfinals). We went to PKs. Everyone on the field at the end of OT took a PK (so 11 for each team if not red cards).

Like, no matter what? Say it's 6-0, they just keep going?

[Nonlinear FC]

Yep. What Drugs said. Tale as old as time. Make the serfs/peasants/factory workers strive for just the bare minimum and leave them feeling grateful for just the crumbs.

[HaulCitgo]

Yep. What Drugs said. Tale as old as time. Make the serfs/peasants/factory workers strive for just the bare minimum and leave them feeling grateful for just the crumbs.

One could get a nickname like that

[HaulCitgo]

Now we're into shades of gray. What is the correct time? You could never do it but three months paid seems fair for the person giving birth but the spouse 2-6 weeks max, if any. I'd say zero. Some people have a kid every 18 mos. They get paid 1/3 more than everyone else? Like Brian says who doesnt want that deal, whether a dad like Pruitt or not. Ultimately that comes out of increases for those that win. As a society we could mandate six months but I'm not convinced thats the best for the labor even. Certainly not the ownership management class. There has to be the carrot of getting rich. If you diminish management pay to compensate the much larger majority with even modest increases the carrot gets smaller and smaller.

As an aside some argue this is a reason for the gender gap in wages. Women work less than men when you take into account family leave. It's true just a matter of how much an effect. Syb's wife worked less days than he did. Just a fact. Tend to think it's more systemic bias but these are the discussions never had.

[The Sybian]

Intentionally or not, I think HC gets at the root here - all these rich and powerful guys complaining about this are doing so because they think paternal leave is going to make rich and powerful guys spend more money and they're willing to double down on regressive notions of masculinity to try to avoid spending more money. Also, going to bat for regressive notions of masculinity is sort of their thing anyway.

Rich people don't want poor people to know that the rich people make so much money, they can afford to pay the poor people to not work. Creates thoughts in the minds of the poor people about how much the rich people make off their labor and how they can afford to do things like give the poor people raises, better working conditions, (more) paid time off, etc.

Drives me nuts hearing working class Republicans scream about regulations, paid leave and corporate taxes killing the economy. Throw in raising minimum wage, too. The US, Suriname and Papua New Guinea are the only countries in the world that don't guarantee paid maternity leave. North Korea has better mandatory workers rights, FFS! NJ passed a law a couple years ago requiring qualifying employers provide 5 days of paid sick leave. People were freaking out that it would kill small business. Not allowing people some paid leave when they are sick is hurting productivity and forcing sick people to go to work because they can't afford not to get paid, and they are going to get other people sick. It's so fucking simple! And in most cases probably financially beneficial for employers getting better work out of employees.

[The Sybian]

As an aside some argue this is a reason for the gender gap in wages. Women work less than men when you take into account family leave. It's true just a matter of how much an effect. Syb's wife worked less days than he did. Just a fact. Tend to think it's more systemic bias but these are the discussions never had.

I've read some really compelling arguments that the wage gap isn't due to discrimination, but women opting into lower paying positions by choosing less demanding (lower paying) jobs in order to have more free time to spend with children. Of course discrimination exists, but the statistics that women get paid 72 cents on the dollar is also misleading, as it isn't getting paid less for identical work. OTOH, I've talked to several clients who believed they were being understanding by not offering a single mother a promotion, because they know she would be conflicted as the job required travel. I always use this as a hypothetical in a training I teach, and some often some old guy will truly believe they are doing the right thing by not selecting saving her from making the tough decision.

[elflaco2]

This.

was just coming to make a similar point. Everyone else has figured it out. but the US can't. or won't. i'll save my rant for another time and thread, but reality is.. this place ain't what it used to be.. fact is, it never was and it won't get any better for a long time, if ever. We've been sold a fantasy land. The great resignation is upon us. will it make a difference in the long run? who knows.
i'll take my sixty days. and i'll worship the dollar. and i'll continue doing what i do, even as it means i'm a small part of the machine causing the problem. but at least i have another passport.

[elflaco2]

Weighty topic.
i have 60 days paid leave tks to NY.. in the first year. i'll take it later
took PTO this week and next . working one hour/day to stay up to date on all going on --were about to announce (@GIFF -- look away) an internal restructure.. i'm once again taking over a mess to clean up. bad timing so only two weeks.

as for the thread topic..
third game on the road last night in the playoffs... they won on the 19th penalty.. some weird nj hs soccer rules... two five min extra time.. then pks.. std 5 each..all tied up.. our team kept the same five on.. the other, switched kids.. even going to the bench (so much for just the 11 on the pitch at end of game)..
the boy scored the 19th (he missed his first, scored the other 3) - video here: https://youtu.be/sECTcOsHaMM
final away (again) tomorrow.
was pretty cool to watch but superanxious for him. very happy it worked out. he played like a beast. other team was so much better but the whole team stepped up and shut them down.

So back in my days the MD high school rules were different. We were in the regional final (state quarterfinals). We went to PKs. Everyone on the field at the end of OT took a PK (so 11 for each team if not red cards).

same.
as far as i knew it until last night..
only the 11 on the field can kick.
five on five.. then one on one until 11 then start over again. never go to the bench.
neither ref (two in HS games in nj, each on his side, neither w headsets) had any clue once it ended tied after 5. they were calling people (or siri, alexa or google).should have ended earlier if they had called the PKs right.. let opposing gk talk thrash to all of our players before they kicked.. he was a couple of feet away each time (like the Argentine goalie in copa america).. missed a clear stoppage.. ball not over the line (of course we have video).
anyway.
on to 4pm in woodbridge tomorrow -- cool factoid, both JV teams made the finals, both are full of kids that came up through our club.

[The Sybian]

This.

was just coming to make a similar point. Everyone else has figured it out. but the US can't. or won't. i'll save my rant for another time and thread, but reality is.. this place ain't what it used to be.. fact is, it never was and it won't get any better for a long time, if ever. We've been sold a fantasy land. The great resignation is upon us. will it make a difference in the long run? who knows.
i'll take my sixty days. and i'll worship the dollar. and i'll continue doing what i do, even as it means i'm a small part of the machine causing the problem. but at least i have another passport.

When I first started my job, I was researching Georgia state employment laws. I was shocked at how progressive and employee friendly the laws were, then I saw a reference to the President of Georgia, and realized it was the former Soviet Republic, not the state.

[wlu_lax6]

Weighty topic.
i have 60 days paid leave tks to NY.. in the first year. i'll take it later
took PTO this week and next . working one hour/day to stay up to date on all going on --were about to announce (@GIFF -- look away) an internal restructure.. i'm once again taking over a mess to clean up. bad timing so only two weeks.

as for the thread topic..
third game on the road last night in the playoffs... they won on the 19th penalty.. some weird nj hs soccer rules... two five min extra time.. then pks.. std 5 each..all tied up.. our team kept the same five on.. the other, switched kids.. even going to the bench (so much for just the 11 on the pitch at end of game)..
the boy scored the 19th (he missed his first, scored the other 3) - video here: https://youtu.be/sECTcOsHaMM
final away (again) tomorrow.
was pretty cool to watch but superanxious for him. very happy it worked out. he played like a beast. other team was so much better but the whole team stepped up and shut them down.

So back in my days the MD high school rules were different. We were in the regional final (state quarterfinals). We went to PKs. Everyone on the field at the end of OT took a PK (so 11 for each team if not red cards).

Like, no matter what? Say it's 6-0, they just keep going?

Don't know we were tied after 11 and 12. I kicked #13 for our team (hit the post and the goalie got hands on it before it crossed the line on my first one). Buried the 2nd one (went same way) for the win. Cool experience racing to my teammates at midfield as all of our fans stormed the field to celebrate with us (pretty packed house with students who travelled). Ended up being tackled by a friend on the football team.

We lost the semi to a team with a kid who ended up playing for Maryland & DC United and another kid who was Bob Ferry's son or nephew.

[HaulCitgo]

Is it coincidence that the US also has the dominant economy in the world? I don't think the two (family leave specifically) are linked but it is capitalism that drives the economic success, no?

[The Sybian]

Is it coincidence that the US also has the dominant economy in the world? I don't think the two (family leave specifically) are linked but it is capitalism that drives the economic success, no?

Yeah, Americans routinely work 60+ hours/week, and in France they go on strike because 37 hours is too much to bear. What I don't get is how countries like Germany can function when large numbers of workers take 2 month long vacations in the summer.

[A_B]

Well i can tell you that the carrot for me at least doesn't even keep up with inflation. Still dreaming of getting rich I guess. At least I have 20+ years left of working to figure it out.

[P.D.X.]

I'm Team Rass here. The class that reaps the most from the financial windfalls of a strong economy are the ones who perpetuate the masculine mythos of "work all the time".

[wlu_lax6]

Is it coincidence that the US also has the dominant economy in the world? I don't think the two (family leave specifically) are linked but it is capitalism that drives the economic success, no?

Maybe, but I figured that our unique position with natural resources and distance from other people fighting for the same resources (combined with our capitalism).

The real challenge is having our corporate overloads responsible for lots of our benefits. Parental leave is an insurance program. As long as our model is companies provide healthcare, we live in a mixed up place where the corporation is paying for it. Health insurance used to be a differentiator "benefit" for company (like subsidized lunch, etc). Not something organizations were expected to provide (which is where we have evolved to).

[pruitt2]

Is it coincidence that the US also has the dominant economy in the world? I don't think the two (family leave specifically) are linked but it is capitalism that drives the economic success, no?

Yeah, Americans routinely work 60+ hours/week, and in France they go on strike because 37 hours is too much to bear. What I don't get is how countries like Germany can function when large numbers of workers take 2 month long vacations in the summer.

The US is more of the classic Victorian-era capitalist model.

[A_B]

Is it coincidence that the US also has the dominant economy in the world? I don't think the two (family leave specifically) are linked but it is capitalism that drives the economic success, no?

Yeah, Americans routinely work 60+ hours/week, and in France they go on strike because 37 hours is too much to bear. What I don't get is how countries like Germany can function when large numbers of workers take 2 month long vacations in the summer.

The US is more of the classic Victorian-era capitalist model.

Yeah! Bob Cratchit eventually even got to take Christmas off! I can't wait!

[GoodKarma]

Is it coincidence that the US also has the dominant economy in the world? I don't think the two (family leave specifically) are linked but it is capitalism that drives the economic success, no?

Well, we have the third largest population in the world, democracy and no rules until the mid 20th century so I would say there are a large number of factors that all came together to create a dominate economy.

[brian]

The US wasn’t unquestionably the most dominant economy in the world until every other major economy in the world was more or less completely destroyed between 1939-1945 for some reason.

[brian]

(That reason had a lot more to do with geography than economics.)

[elflaco2]

Tournament final today at 3:30 @ Woodbridge HS for you jersey folk.
the boys varsity crashed out in first round, the girls varsity lost the county final and is likely to cruise in the state tournament based on their bracket and the girls jv is playing their final today as well.
our club FB posts the last two days remind everyone to come out and support the kids and oh btw, the majority of them got their start playing for our club (where they actually received some coaching)

[rass]

I can't make it but good luck!

[The Sybian]

I can't make it but good luck!

I didn't go to my son's final XC meet yesterday, but I'll be there! Actually, final school soccer game for my daughter, so I'm trying to make that. Good luck to the Boy!

[rass]

I didn't go to my son's final XC meet yesterday...

I got there yesterday in the middle of your son's race. I asked my wife if she saw him and she said yeah, and she thought she saw your wife but couldn't remember exactly what she looks like and does she have wavy hair? (I guess all redheads look the same?) I was about to say "no" and suggest she check your FB profile and looked behind me and there's your wife standing right next to us along the rope talking to another mom from your HS. So I just said hi to her instead.

[duff]

I didn't go to my son's final XC meet yesterday...

So I just said hi to her instead.

I can only imagine the reactions of the other parents when you approach and say, "Hello Mrs. Sex Machine."

[rass]

"I know her from the internet!"

[DSafetyGuy]

Better than the Grimace costume my wife made for me many years ago.

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