I'm dumb on matters like this. What does Trump releasing the warrant himself prove or disprove? I figure it's a big deal because he won't release the warrant, but I don't get why. Can someone help me out?
The issue for Trump is that he can't continue to allow his very stupid children (particularly Eric) to go on Fox and say his dad liked collecting news clippings, photographs and other "aw shucks, he's a regular dad"* material if he actually makes the warrant public.
The warrant won't go all the way towards showing DOJ's hand, but it will get pretty specific about exactly what they were looking for. Clarifying that he has HIGHLY top secret material on property (illegally, obvi) blows all this bullshit the GOP is throwing out there this week out of the water.
If there was nothing in the warrant Trump and his ppl thought was incriminating or even if it left him some P.R. wiggle room, they'd have released on Monday, Tuesday latest.
* - And that's just a great example of how bad they are at this. They are always ALWAYS talking to their mouthbreathing cultists, who are plainly too stupid to respond to anything other than very dumbed down arguments and grievances. They could've made the obfuscating much less goofy, but they just had to go with the "Great American Dad" thing, which... come the fuck on.
Last edited by Nonlinear FC on Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
You can lead a horse to fish, but you can't fish out a horse.
L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 12:36 pm
Here's something I don't understand, or maybe just illustrates how fucking stupid Trump is. I'm assuming that the twelve boxes worth of documents that he took down to MAL were really damaging to him. He rejected a subpoena to return them before the raid. If he is rejecting a subpoena to return documents, wouldn't he already be pot-committed to the crime of taking documents out of the White House? At that point, why not just destroy them? Does he not have a single paper shredder on the property, or failing that, a fireplace? The documents are paper. They burn. He's already in legal jeopardy if he didn't return them, he might as well go all the way, right? In for a dime, in for a dollar.
I was wondering the same thing. Two possible answers I can think of. First, he was so arrogant he thought he'd be able to keep them forever. Or more likely, it's information he needs to possess for some reason. Lots of reasons he'd want to hold onto it, could be leverage over others, I still think he has something on Linsey Graham and a lot of other prominent Republicans. Most likely, he was either selling information or holding onto something to dangle as a carrot. Most likely is the Saudis. Seems weird the Saudi government handed Jared $2 Billion to invest when Jared has zero experience in wealth management. Also seems weird a former President is hosting a golf event for the Saudi's new sports washing sham of a golf league. Lots of other possible reasons he wants to hold docs and not just flush them down the toilet.
An honest to God cult of personality - formed around a failed steak salesman.
-Pruitt
mister d wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 1:16 pm
I can't fathom any good that comes out of Garland speaking.
Any justification, facts or explanation will be provide further ammunition for the conspiracy theorists to spin. Nothing can change their minds, everything will be twisted. OTOH, I'm really curious to hear this!
An honest to God cult of personality - formed around a failed steak salesman.
-Pruitt
In terms of shredding, I think maybe folks need a quick reminder: Trump and his lawyers have been negotiating with DoJ for weeks (if not longer) to get to the bottom of what he had and whether he needed to return it. Who knows what his argument(s) were, but in his and his lawyer's minds, they were still in a negotiation/stalling tactic.
We have now learned that an inside tipster got ahold of DoJ (or FBI or whatever) and told them the actual nature of the material in those boxes (and where exactly to find it at the resort). We'd still be totally unaware of this stuff if that person hadn't made that call.
Not trying to be pedantic, but he wasn't even thinking about shredding this stuff (for the speculative reasons on here, and others we don't even know to think about).
You can lead a horse to fish, but you can't fish out a horse.
mister d wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 1:52 pm
Then maybe I'm a huge massive idiot, but what could be in there where the physical doc carries value beyond the risk versus just scanning this shit?
I'm thinking Trump is so old school that he thinks that there's value in having the physical copy?
I mean, once again, we're in the business of applying logic and reason to Trumps-brain.
You can lead a horse to fish, but you can't fish out a horse.
mister d wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 1:52 pm
Then maybe I'm a huge massive idiot, but what could be in there where the physical doc carries value beyond the risk versus just scanning this shit?
I'm thinking Trump is so old school that he thinks that there's value in having the physical copy?
I mean, once again, we're in the business of applying logic and reason to Trumps-brain.
None of this makes much sense to me. If we're talking about documents that are incriminating or embarrassing to Trump, I assume he'd have shred them a long time ago. If we're talking about documents that could have some value to third parties and he wants to sell them, I would think scanning them would do just as well. If we're talking about documents that actually help Trump in some political fight ("proof" that he didn't sell the US interests out to Russia), I would assume he'd have found a way to publicize them long ago.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
So the Feds are asking the Court to unseal the warrant, the property receipt, and "attachments A and B". Is anyone familiar enough with these to know if Attachments A and B would include the probable cause statement or affidavit providing the evidence the court relied on to issue the warrant?
The New York Times and other media outlets have filed motions to unseal the warrant and all related documents, expressly including the search warrant application and probable cause affidavits filed in support of the warrant.
I think these will have to be granted unless Trump's lawyers object. (And it'll be so amusing when they do.)
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
I'm dumb on matters like this. What does Trump releasing the warrant himself prove or disprove? I figure it's a big deal because he won't release the warrant, but I don't get why. Can someone help me out?
The issue for Trump is that he can't continue to allow his retar... very stupid children (particularly Eric) to go on Fox and say his dad liked collecting news clippings, photographs and other "aw shucks, he's a regular dad"* material if he actually makes the warrant public.
please, don't even come close to going there again
"We're not the smartest people in the world. We go down the straightaway and turn left. That's literally what we do." -- Clint Bowyer
Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 1:02 pm
* - And that's just a great example of how bad they are at this. They are always ALWAYS talking to their mouthbreathing cultists, who are plainly too stupid to respond to anything other than very dumbed down arguments and grievances. They could've made the obfuscating much less goofy, but they just had to go with the "Great American Dad" thing, which... come the fuck on.
Barr quitting Trumpworld may have been the best thing to happen for this country because he was so good at obfuscating.
I'm dumb on matters like this. What does Trump releasing the warrant himself prove or disprove? I figure it's a big deal because he won't release the warrant, but I don't get why. Can someone help me out?
The issue for Trump is that he can't continue to allow his retar... very stupid children (particularly Eric) to go on Fox and say his dad liked collecting news clippings, photographs and other "aw shucks, he's a regular dad"* material if he actually makes the warrant public.
The warrant won't go all the way towards showing DOJ's hand, but it will get pretty specific about exactly what they were looking for. Clarifying that he has HIGHLY top secret material on property (illegally, obvi) blows all this bullshit the GOP is throwing out there this week out of the water.
If there was nothing in the warrant Trump and his ppl thought was incriminating or even if it left him some P.R. wiggle room, they'd have released on Monday, Tuesday latest.
* - And that's just a great example of how bad they are at this. They are always ALWAYS talking to their mouthbreathing cultists, who are plainly too stupid to respond to anything other than very dumbed down arguments and grievances. They could've made the obfuscating much less goofy, but they just had to go with the "Great American Dad" thing, which... come the fuck on.
Ah, ok. So it's just a massive bluff call. Like with his taxes that are suddenly in the hands of the House Ways and Means Committee.
So if the government does what it does it can build a massive case surgically detailing the family was selling out the country.
I think I'm tracking now.
mister d wrote:Couldn't have pegged me better.
EnochRoot wrote:I mean, whatever. Johnnie's all hot cuz I ride him.
Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 2:31 pm
So the Feds are asking the Court to unseal the warrant, the property receipt, and "attachments A and B". Is anyone familiar enough with these to know if Attachments A and B would include the probable cause statement or affidavit providing the evidence the court relied on to issue the warrant?
The New York Times and other media outlets have filed motions to unseal the warrant and all related documents, expressly including the search warrant application and probable cause affidavits filed in support of the warrant.
I think these will have to be granted unless Trump's lawyers object. (And it'll be so amusing when they do.)
This is an important point. I think Garland lowkey played a great little trick here. Trump doesn't want the warrant public for a very specific reason and Garland through it into Trump's hands. It's like if the IRS came out and said, "Trump can show is tax returns unless he has something to hide." Speaking of his tax returns, DC Ct. of Appeals ruled yesterday that the IRS can release his tax returns.
It must be fun for Trump's advisors to come up with ideas to spin their moronic base. "Ok, should we go with 'the radical Liberal FBI planted evidence?'" My prediction for the next line of attack against the FBI and DOJ is to make crazy and specific allegations and directly ask spokespeople, knowing they can't comment on an ongoing investigation. "Is it true Biden ordered the FBI created fake documents and planted it at MAL to drum up a fake indictment to keep Trump from running in 2024?" "OMG, the FBI refuses to deny it, so it MUST be true! FBI spokesman confirms Biden ordered them to plant evidence!"
An honest to God cult of personality - formed around a failed steak salesman.
-Pruitt
The Sybian wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:14 pmIt must be fun for Trump's advisors to come up with ideas to spin their moronic base. "Ok, should we go with 'the radical Liberal FBI planted evidence?'" My prediction for the next line of attack against the FBI and DOJ is to make crazy and specific allegations and directly ask spokespeople, knowing they can't comment on an ongoing investigation. "Is it true Biden ordered the FBI created fake documents and planted it at MAL to drum up a fake indictment to keep Trump from running in 2024?" "OMG, the FBI refuses to deny it, so it MUST be true! FBI spokesman confirms Biden ordered them to plant evidence!"
I had a lunch a couple of weeks ago with clients who are connected to the oil and gas business. I heard more mentions of Hunter Biden in that lunch than I've heard since the election.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
I'm dumb on matters like this. What does Trump releasing the warrant himself prove or disprove? I figure it's a big deal because he won't release the warrant, but I don't get why. Can someone help me out?
The issue for Trump is that he can't continue to allow his retar... very stupid children (particularly Eric) to go on Fox and say his dad liked collecting news clippings, photographs and other "aw shucks, he's a regular dad"* material if he actually makes the warrant public.
please, don't even come close to going there again
Fair.
ETA: I edited the original, but no issue with the call out.
You can lead a horse to fish, but you can't fish out a horse.
Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 2:31 pm
So the Feds are asking the Court to unseal the warrant, the property receipt, and "attachments A and B". Is anyone familiar enough with these to know if Attachments A and B would include the probable cause statement or affidavit providing the evidence the court relied on to issue the warrant?
The New York Times and other media outlets have filed motions to unseal the warrant and all related documents, expressly including the search warrant application and probable cause affidavits filed in support of the warrant.
I think these will have to be granted unless Trump's lawyers object. (And it'll be so amusing when they do.)
This is an important point. I think Garland lowkey played a great little trick here. Trump doesn't want the warrant public for a very specific reason and Garland through it into Trump's hands. It's like if the IRS came out and said, "Trump can show is tax returns unless he has something to hide." Speaking of his tax returns, DC Ct. of Appeals ruled yesterday that the IRS can release his tax returns.
It must be fun for Trump's advisors to come up with ideas to spin their moronic base. "Ok, should we go with 'the radical Liberal FBI planted evidence?'" My prediction for the next line of attack against the FBI and DOJ is to make crazy and specific allegations and directly ask spokespeople, knowing they can't comment on an ongoing investigation. "Is it true Biden ordered the FBI created fake documents and planted it at MAL to drum up a fake indictment to keep Trump from running in 2024?" "OMG, the FBI refuses to deny it, so it MUST be true! FBI spokesman confirms Biden ordered them to plant evidence!"
One thing I really liked out of Garland today is very specifically mentioning that a Trump lawyer was on property for the entire search and that they handed over a very detailed list of all that was seized to that lawyer in the moment.
I know it won't matter to the cultists, but to anyone else the idea that the FBI was on property with no oversight is just silly.
What is really offensive to the (lack of) intelligence of the vast majority of Americans is calling the FBI some sort of leftist loony bin. I know it was already mentioned on this thread, but come-the-fuck-on. That's one of the dumbest things I've heard from the GOP in a very long time. No one with a half a brain believes that shit.
You can lead a horse to fish, but you can't fish out a horse.
I'm sure most any document sensitive to national security that includes some type of planning will reveal TTPs. They can probably blow that whistle on most anything, no?
Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:38 pmWhat is really offensive to the (lack of) intelligence of the vast majority of Americans is calling the FBI some sort of leftist loony bin. I know it was already mentioned on this thread, but come-the-fuck-on. That's one of the dumbest things I've heard from the GOP in a very long time. No one with a half a brain believes that shit.
But as always, the point isn't to persuade, it's to create an issue so that people who don't pay that much attention (i.e., almost everyone) doesn't know what to believe.
Most normal people just aren't comfortable deciding that someone is lying.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
It just shows you what having an actual crazy person calling the shots gets. All he cares about is winning the immediate news cycle. He's playing checkers.
2 days later, and he's fucked himself.
You can lead a horse to fish, but you can't fish out a horse.
Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 2:31 pm
So the Feds are asking the Court to unseal the warrant, the property receipt, and "attachments A and B". Is anyone familiar enough with these to know if Attachments A and B would include the probable cause statement or affidavit providing the evidence the court relied on to issue the warrant?
The New York Times and other media outlets have filed motions to unseal the warrant and all related documents, expressly including the search warrant application and probable cause affidavits filed in support of the warrant.
I think these will have to be granted unless Trump's lawyers object. (And it'll be so amusing when they do.)
This is an important point. I think Garland lowkey played a great little trick here. Trump doesn't want the warrant public for a very specific reason and Garland through it into Trump's hands. It's like if the IRS came out and said, "Trump can show is tax returns unless he has something to hide." Speaking of his tax returns, DC Ct. of Appeals ruled yesterday that the IRS can release his tax returns.
It must be fun for Trump's advisors to come up with ideas to spin their moronic base. "Ok, should we go with 'the radical Liberal FBI planted evidence?'" My prediction for the next line of attack against the FBI and DOJ is to make crazy and specific allegations and directly ask spokespeople, knowing they can't comment on an ongoing investigation. "Is it true Biden ordered the FBI created fake documents and planted it at MAL to drum up a fake indictment to keep Trump from running in 2024?" "OMG, the FBI refuses to deny it, so it MUST be true! FBI spokesman confirms Biden ordered them to plant evidence!"
One thing I really liked out of Garland today is very specifically mentioning that a Trump lawyer was on property for the entire search and that they handed over a very detailed list of all that was seized to that lawyer in the moment.
I know it won't matter to the cultists, but to anyone else the idea that the FBI was on property with no oversight is just silly.
What is really offensive to the (lack of) intelligence of the vast majority of Americans is calling the FBI some sort of leftist loony bin. I know it was already mentioned on this thread, but come-the-fuck-on. That's one of the dumbest things I've heard from the GOP in a very long time. No one with a half a brain believes that shit.
If they think the FBI is suddenly full of crazy radical liberals... maybe we should have permanent government employees that remain in their jobs when administrations change and perform their job the same way regardless of which party is in power. Lets give them a cool name, like "the Deep State." It's mind boggling. When Trump was in office, all "Deep State" government employees were anti-Trump. Now Biden controls every minute facet of government. If Liberals are that competent and all powerful, why would anyone vote Republican?
An honest to God cult of personality - formed around a failed steak salesman.
-Pruitt
Trump has to respond to the motion to unseal by 3pm tomorrow.
So, either Trump objects to unsealing and whatever he says it's a terrible look, or he says go ahead and unseal, and all this shit tics up another notch.
/captainobviousreport
You can lead a horse to fish, but you can't fish out a horse.
I did not, under any circumstance, even fathom that that would be the topic of the documents.
I put nothing past him. Read a lot of speculation about nuclear secrets to the Saudis. I'm not believing anything until more comes out, but I don't doubt it. I can't believe it didn't get more attention, but within the first month or so of Trump being in office, he invited Russian Minister Sergey Lavrov and Ambassador and known spy Sergey Kislyak into the Oval Office and bragged about sharing top secret information. He also allowed a Russian "photographer" in to take pictures of them. There were reports that this directly led to Israeli informants getting killed, due to the Russians determining sources based on the specific information. The man is fucking dumb and has no concept about the problems he leaves in his wake. Worse, he wouldn't care. Could you imagine any other President inviting fucking Russian spies along with their photographer into the Oval? Probably left classified docs sitting out.
An honest to God cult of personality - formed around a failed steak salesman.
-Pruitt
