World Cup - Qatar - Knockout rounds to the Final

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Sun Dec 04, 2022 11:39 am

mbappe is sublime. As long as he is on the pitch, france is the favorite.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Sun Dec 04, 2022 11:50 am

actually, mbappe might be a deity. Holy hell.

L-Jam3 · Post by **L-Jam3** » Sun Dec 04, 2022 11:50 am

tennbengal wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 11:39 am mbappe is sublime. As long as he is on the pitch, france is the favorite.

I don’t know the relationship status for your son, but if he’s single and looking he’ll probably have some fun tonight.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Sun Dec 04, 2022 11:50 am

tennbengal wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 11:39 am mbappe is sublime. As long as he is on the pitch, france is the favorite.

Yeah he's not bad! But France are alwaysl underrated. Brazil, Argentina and even England are still favorites.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Sun Dec 04, 2022 11:56 am

A lot of drama for a nothing penalty.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:10 pm

degenerasian wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 11:50 am But France are alwaysl underrated. Brazil, Argentina and even England are still favorites.

this injury-ravaged France squad has been no worse than third-favorite with England and is currently the No. 2 favorite at +375 (with the advantage of being in the quarters) and ahead of Argentina on the board

L-Jam3 · Post by **L-Jam3** » Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:24 pm

degenerasian wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 11:56 am A lot of drama for a nothing penalty.

It was also Lewendowski. If anyone earned the right to be carried out on his shield it was him.

Baloney · Post by **Baloney** » Sun Dec 04, 2022 3:35 pm

Can't wait for the Maguire/Mbappe match up.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Sun Dec 04, 2022 3:48 pm

Yeah, even with injuries, I had France in the semis. I also think this ENG team is very very good.

My concern for ARG is that I'm not quite sure Messi's surrounding cast is quite good enough. They left A LOT on the table in the last match.

Tom 1860 · Post by **Tom 1860** » Sun Dec 04, 2022 5:27 pm

Baloney wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 3:35 pm Can't wait for the Maguire/Mbappe match up.

It will be a Mbappe/Walker match up

HaulCitgo · Post by **HaulCitgo** » Sun Dec 04, 2022 6:23 pm

Not as impressed with England. Were second best through about 35 minutes today. First goal changed everything then the one right before the half ended it but Senegal definitely could have had the first goal.

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Sun Dec 04, 2022 8:47 pm

England-France should be a great match. Looking forward to it...

Tom 1860 · Post by **Tom 1860** » Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:53 am

HaulCitgo wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 6:23 pm Not as impressed with England. Were second best through about 35 minutes today. First goal changed everything then the one right before the half ended it but Senegal definitely could have had the first goal.

Senegal were very very physical early on and England took time to manage that. Once they started to one touch stuff in midfield, they were fine.

The battle for the ball in midfield between France and England will be really interesting on Saturday, both teams have such talented forwards, but if they can't get the ball to them, it could be a long day at the office.

HaulCitgo · Post by **HaulCitgo** » Mon Dec 05, 2022 7:49 am

Dunno about that. They were definitely a step and a half slow though. If Senegal would have settled for 0-1 at the half I think it would have gone different. They were pretty disciplined pressing up to about the 65 yd line but once they tried to push higher they got broken and wasnt enough numbers in the back. They just got impatient to me.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Mon Dec 05, 2022 10:25 am

I just watched this:

The goalies were clearly ass, but did the ball move a lot more back then? There was some crazy shit going on.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Mon Dec 05, 2022 10:42 am

Yes, the goalies are often shambolic, as is a lot of the defending.

One thing to note, however, is that the 1994 ball was an absolute work of bullshittery as a goalie. Go back and watch how crazy that thing is off the foot of many of those shooters. The two goals in the US - Swiss game are a great example. Absolutely great shots, but... There's just way too much jump and swerve and knuckle on those. That ball played like it was filled with helium at times.

It was a point of considerable contention... more so than usual. (There's almost always someone bitching about the WC ball, but, let's say for this year, it's not really a thing. Lot's of grousing about the ball in South Africa (2010) as another example.)

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:01 am

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 10:42 am Yes, the goalies are often shambolic, as is a lot of the defending.

One thing to note, however, is that the 1994 ball was an absolute work of bullshittery as a goalie. Go back and watch how crazy that thing is off the foot of many of those shooters. The two goals in the US - Swiss game are a great example. Absolutely great shots, but... There's just way too much jump and swerve and knuckle on those. That ball played like it was filled with helium at times.

It was a point of considerable contention... more so than usual. (There's almost always someone bitching about the WC ball, but, let's say for this year, it's not really a thing. Lot's of grousing about the ball in South Africa (2010) as another example.)

It that why Baresi's and Baggio's penalties went into Row F?

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:14 am

What a header.

L-Jam3 · Post by **L-Jam3** » Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:57 am

We have our first overtime, gents.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:02 pm

L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:57 am We have our first overtime, gents.

What's overtime?!?!?!

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:10 pm

What's the logic behind not wanting the golden goal? I assume its seen as a way to avoid a fluke ending, but two teams playing cautious until penalties seems equally bad or worse?

L-Jam3 · Post by **L-Jam3** » Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:11 pm

A_B wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:02 pm
L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:57 am We have our first overtime, gents.
What's overtime?!?!?!

Grrrr!

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:41 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:10 pm What's the logic behind not wanting the golden goal? I assume its seen as a way to avoid a fluke ending, but two teams playing cautious until penalties seems equally bad or worse?

The rule just wasn’t working the way it was designed and sides were increasingly getting more defensive in extra-time, fearful of conceding rather than being encouraged to attack. FIFA tried the silver goal in 2003 as an alternative, which would see sides leading after the first-half of extra-time winning the game. That was poorly received too and they were forced to abandon the experiment. Following Euro 2004, the whole idea was scrapped.

Lots of people like the PKs before a game model. Basically you know what the outcome will be if it is still a draw after extra time because you have already determined it. Seems goofy (like the Elam ending in hoops). Talk of going to the PK before the game in 2026 (including using it in group games).

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:43 pm

Japan....not so good at PK's.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:47 pm

Sad for Japan. I thought they were the better team through the run of play. But, damn. 1 for 4 on PK's?

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:02 pm

wlu_lax6 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:41 pm
mister d wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:10 pm What's the logic behind not wanting the golden goal? I assume its seen as a way to avoid a fluke ending, but two teams playing cautious until penalties seems equally bad or worse?
The rule just wasn’t working the way it was designed and sides were increasingly getting more defensive in extra-time, fearful of conceding rather than being encouraged to attack. FIFA tried the silver goal in 2003 as an alternative, which would see sides leading after the first-half of extra-time winning the game. That was poorly received too and they were forced to abandon the experiment. Following Euro 2004, the whole idea was scrapped.

Lots of people like the PKs before a game model. Basically you know what the outcome will be if it is still a draw after extra time because you have already determined it. Seems goofy (like the Elam ending in hoops). Talk of going to the PK before the game in 2026 (including using it in group games).

Which is weird because in 2002, 3 out of the 5 matches that went to extra time ended via golden goal. Senegal twice! So that would have been a strange time to conclude that teams were playing cautiously.

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:18 pm

wlu_lax6 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:41 pm
mister d wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:10 pm What's the logic behind not wanting the golden goal? I assume its seen as a way to avoid a fluke ending, but two teams playing cautious until penalties seems equally bad or worse?
The rule just wasn’t working the way it was designed and sides were increasingly getting more defensive in extra-time, fearful of conceding rather than being encouraged to attack. FIFA tried the silver goal in 2003 as an alternative, which would see sides leading after the first-half of extra-time winning the game. That was poorly received too and they were forced to abandon the experiment. Following Euro 2004, the whole idea was scrapped.

Lots of people like the PKs before a game model. Basically you know what the outcome will be if it is still a draw after extra time because you have already determined it. Seems goofy (like the Elam ending in hoops). Talk of going to the PK before the game in 2026 (including using it in group games).

PKs before the game seems pretty weird. PKs between the end of 90 minutes and the extra time seems to be worth trying. It would definitely focus the ET a lot better, and even give the players some rest. And you would see less of my least favorite thing which is managers bringing on a sub specifically for penalties.

HaulCitgo · Post by **HaulCitgo** » Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:28 pm

Rex wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 7:12 pm I hoped that the USA’s youth would be an advantage for them in this game (fewer scars, more energy). That turned out to be wrong. NED’s key players are more experienced and just better players at this point in their lives. The manager is better too, but he had the much easier job. It’s not too hard to look like a tactical genius when your back line starts for Liverpool, Man City and Ajax. Our back line starts for Nashville, Fulham and the AC Milan bench.

I am excited for the next cycle, but also anxious about it. The good news: no CONCACAF qualifiers! The bad news: maybe the same thing? I am concerned about this group’s ability to stay sharp. I am also worried that the USSF will punt on the Olympics when there is going to be a legitimate chance to medal there. I know you have to play ball with the clubs to get players released, but this is one of those times when you should do that. I also know that there is talk about a joint Copa in 2024, but I’d rather not depend on South American soccer bureaucrats to get us some competitive games. This team desperately needs exposure to teams outside of CONCACAF. I think this fall proved that!

Agree that with all the cash US can bring, wouldnt think finding games should be a problem. Quality games played at full speed with full teams will probably be tough. Shouldnt Mexico and Canada be in the same spot or is US somehow the only autoqualifier? If they are, you could probably organize a tournament around those two with some south american teams that would provide good tuneups.

Most obvious to me is that they need to make inroads with the mexican and central american kids. Playing the long game and probably not for 2026 but no reason theyre shouldnt be at least 4-6 players from mexican or central american backgrounds. Diversity is a massive advantage but it seems theyre losing with the hispanic population. Given the number of migrants that just has to be a priority going forward. Black athleticism has been a major advantage this cycle. Regardless of origin id say half or more of the world cup minutes have gone to black players. Compare that to 1994. Night and day probably. Eddie Pope. Anyone else? All backgrounds produce all types of players but genetics is a thing and there are surely enough hispanic kids with enough game to make a national team.

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:41 pm

All 3 hosts have been assured an automatic bid and have the same overall problem. We can be pretty certain that Mexico will be invited to Copa America 2024 because they are always invited. I don't think we can be as certain that the US and Canada will be invited. Then in 2025, all 3 teams have the same problem which is that everyone else will be involved in qualifying. And in the summer, US/CAN/MEX will be stuck with Gold Cup and CONCACAF Nations League, basically playing each other over and over again.

The best case scenario is that the USA actually cares about the Olympics and fields a strong U23 team there, gets invited to Copa 2024 (or invents their own tournament against African and Asian teams), and then tries to sneak in friendlies against good Euro teams that are stuck in odd number WCQ groups.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:43 pm

Rex wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:18 pm
wlu_lax6 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:41 pm
mister d wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:10 pm What's the logic behind not wanting the golden goal? I assume its seen as a way to avoid a fluke ending, but two teams playing cautious until penalties seems equally bad or worse?
The rule just wasn’t working the way it was designed and sides were increasingly getting more defensive in extra-time, fearful of conceding rather than being encouraged to attack. FIFA tried the silver goal in 2003 as an alternative, which would see sides leading after the first-half of extra-time winning the game. That was poorly received too and they were forced to abandon the experiment. Following Euro 2004, the whole idea was scrapped.

Lots of people like the PKs before a game model. Basically you know what the outcome will be if it is still a draw after extra time because you have already determined it. Seems goofy (like the Elam ending in hoops). Talk of going to the PK before the game in 2026 (including using it in group games).
PKs before the game seems pretty weird. PKs between the end of 90 minutes and the extra time seems to be worth trying. It would definitely focus the ET a lot better, and even give the players some rest. And you would see less of my least favorite thing which is managers bringing on a sub specifically for penalties.

We're trying to prevent PKs so having them before we have to is bad. Imagine if tennis had a tiebreaker at 4-4 in case it goes to 6-6.

I suggest we have a 2nd 30 minute overtime period. Add a 6th sub. We have 26 man squads to facilitate this.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:45 pm

Rex wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:41 pm All 3 hosts have been assured an automatic bid and have the same overall problem. We can be pretty certain that Mexico will be invited to Copa America 2024 because they are always invited. I don't think we can be as certain that the US and Canada will be invited. Then in 2025, all 3 teams have the same problem which is that everyone else will be involved in qualifying. And in the summer, US/CAN/MEX will be stuck with Gold Cup and CONCACAF Nations League, basically playing each other over and over again.

The best case scenario is that the USA actually cares about the Olympics and fields a strong U23 team there, gets invited to Copa 2024 (or invents their own tournament against African and Asian teams), and then tries to sneak in friendlies against good Euro teams that are stuck in odd number WCQ groups.

Having CONCACAF nations league is so dumb. That period should be used to play South American, Asian and African teams. Although African teams are quite busy because they have African Nations + qualification every two year cycle.

Africa has a worst problem than CONCACAF, they are stuck playing each other over and over and since they are so lowly ranked, their ranking stays low.

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:51 pm

degenerasian wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:43 pm
Rex wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:18 pm
wlu_lax6 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:41 pm
mister d wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:10 pm What's the logic behind not wanting the golden goal? I assume its seen as a way to avoid a fluke ending, but two teams playing cautious until penalties seems equally bad or worse?
The rule just wasn’t working the way it was designed and sides were increasingly getting more defensive in extra-time, fearful of conceding rather than being encouraged to attack. FIFA tried the silver goal in 2003 as an alternative, which would see sides leading after the first-half of extra-time winning the game. That was poorly received too and they were forced to abandon the experiment. Following Euro 2004, the whole idea was scrapped.

Lots of people like the PKs before a game model. Basically you know what the outcome will be if it is still a draw after extra time because you have already determined it. Seems goofy (like the Elam ending in hoops). Talk of going to the PK before the game in 2026 (including using it in group games).
PKs before the game seems pretty weird. PKs between the end of 90 minutes and the extra time seems to be worth trying. It would definitely focus the ET a lot better, and even give the players some rest. And you would see less of my least favorite thing which is managers bringing on a sub specifically for penalties.
We're trying to prevent PKs so having them before we have to is bad. Imagine if tennis had a tiebreaker at 4-4 in case it goes to 6-6.

I suggest we have a 2nd 30 minute overtime period. Add a 6th sub. We have 26 man squads to facilitate this.

Back when I was playing high school the NFHS and MPSAA (Maryland Public School Athletic Association) were trying to figure out how to get away from PKs and crushing kids souls. So first they had co-champions instead of PKs in the final. Then they went every person on the field at the end of the game took a PK (11 v. 11 or uneven if red cards were a factor). At one point they talked about extra time where players were removed from the game as time went on (basically big field, fewer players to create scoring chances). Figure full field at 7 v 7 with exhausted players would generate a goal pretty quickly.

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:13 pm

Brazil seems to have a good solution to the PKs problem

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:24 pm

The Kim5 defense needs an overhaul.

Post by **brian** » Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:29 pm

Shouldn't look ahead but that Brazil/Argentina semi could be epic.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:52 pm

I guess we're happy the US or Canada didn't play Brazil?

cerranoredux · Post by **cerranoredux** » Mon Dec 05, 2022 3:00 pm

After seeing the highlights of the Brazil game, I’m thinking we should change the domain name to sportsarlifrong.com. Just to honor the guy.

His two goals this go-around have to be in the all-time World Cup top 10.

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Mon Dec 05, 2022 3:01 pm

wlu_lax6 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:51 pm
degenerasian wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:43 pm
Rex wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:18 pm
wlu_lax6 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:41 pm
mister d wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:10 pm What's the logic behind not wanting the golden goal? I assume its seen as a way to avoid a fluke ending, but two teams playing cautious until penalties seems equally bad or worse?
The rule just wasn’t working the way it was designed and sides were increasingly getting more defensive in extra-time, fearful of conceding rather than being encouraged to attack. FIFA tried the silver goal in 2003 as an alternative, which would see sides leading after the first-half of extra-time winning the game. That was poorly received too and they were forced to abandon the experiment. Following Euro 2004, the whole idea was scrapped.

Lots of people like the PKs before a game model. Basically you know what the outcome will be if it is still a draw after extra time because you have already determined it. Seems goofy (like the Elam ending in hoops). Talk of going to the PK before the game in 2026 (including using it in group games).
PKs before the game seems pretty weird. PKs between the end of 90 minutes and the extra time seems to be worth trying. It would definitely focus the ET a lot better, and even give the players some rest. And you would see less of my least favorite thing which is managers bringing on a sub specifically for penalties.
We're trying to prevent PKs so having them before we have to is bad. Imagine if tennis had a tiebreaker at 4-4 in case it goes to 6-6.

I suggest we have a 2nd 30 minute overtime period. Add a 6th sub. We have 26 man squads to facilitate this.
Back when I was playing high school the NFHS and MPSAA (Maryland Public School Athletic Association) were trying to figure out how to get away from PKs and crushing kids souls. So first they had co-champions instead of PKs in the final. Then they went every person on the field at the end of the game took a PK (11 v. 11 or uneven if red cards were a factor). At one point they talked about extra time where players were removed from the game as time went on (basically big field, fewer players to create scoring chances). Figure full field at 7 v 7 with exhausted players would generate a goal pretty quickly.

I swear I read decades ago that corner kicks taken was used as a tiebreaker in some tournaments. (As in, the team that got the most corners won the tiebreaker.) I would love to see that tried. Perhaps you'd get late-game shenanigans with people trying to get corner kicks instead of goals, but I think that would be difficult to pull off. And if it made defenders think twice before dumping the ball over their own back line, so much the better in my view.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Mon Dec 05, 2022 3:12 pm

Best thing to do is keep the outcome as dependent on goals as possible. I think things like SOG and corners are a fine way to get a sense of a game, but having them actually determine an outcome seems more arbitrary than PKs.

I don't know what I've posted here as opposed to the D3 board, so sorry if this is redundant:

As a goalie, I'm absolutely fine with PKs being the way to settle a match. It's one of the few times where I could absolutely win a game for my boys and I relished it. I know this is a very niche demographic, so I'm not stomping my foot about it... I get why folks hate it. I'm just not in that camp. I think taking players off the field would be fun, but at the end of the day, everything that deviates from determining the game 11v11 is a deviation.

Like I said, the less you deviate, the better (IMO).

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Mon Dec 05, 2022 3:14 pm

Let me add one more thing:

By far, the biggest adjustment the sport needs to make is changing the offsides rule. We talked about it. All they need to do to unlock the game is change it from "any body part is off" to "any body part is on."

That doesn't, necessarily, fix the tiebreaking issue, but when you add in the multitude of goals that are called offsides in every tournament... We'd be seeing some much more open play as early goals force teams to come out of their shell and play.