Grantland

Post by **Shirley** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:08 pm

brian wrote:Here's an interesting response to the story. Long, but worth reading.

I couldn't finish that piece. She went on and on about how Hannan revealed Dr. V's transgenderness as if THAT was the point of his article. Did she completely miss the whole part about Dr. V claiming to be an MIT graduate and world-renowned physicist who worked on top secret defense projects? THAT was the key part of the deception and the selling of the club, not that she was a woman or transgendered.

Without digging too deeply, can I guess that this author is also trans? Because she seems really sensitive to that part of the story, as well as the apparently very insulting phrase "she was born a boy." Is that really inflammatory language?

rass · Post by **rass** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:33 pm

The story has blown up a bit in general.

howard · Post by **howard** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:01 pm

That long response is interesting. The ethics of a journalist (or anyone else) outing a trans person is but a small portion of the ethics of this Grantland piece. Important, but far from the full story.

You have some big-ass lies in your story (as Shirley said above), you are playing with fire when you market using those lies. You agree to speak to a writer, thinking you can manipulate your story so those lies remain in force, and you fail, well yeah, you've put other secrets at risk.

Anytime someone speaks to a reporter/writer, they do so with something to gain. Rarely do people consider they also have something to lose.

I liked the response, because frankly I have never given a bit of thought to the concept of outing a trans since I wrote a paper in college on a somewhat related subject. Made me think, but not agree. And don't get me started on the allegation of a 'hate crime'.

Scottie · Post by **Scottie** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:04 pm

And if you don't feel like suffering through both or either of those interminably long and often tangentially prone screeds, allow me to sum 'em up for you.

It is during this section that it is revealed – with a drumroll – Hannan’s discovery that Dr. V. is a transgender woman.

OMG, GIANT GENDER LIE.

Thus, in the skewed logic of the piece, it follows that Dr. V. is due a public shaming. She has lied about her gender. She has capitalized on the beauty privilege afforded a gorgeous woman. It is not fair. The public deserves to know.

Why the fuck does the public deserve to know this?

They don't. Period. Oh! And someone lied on their resume. Which never happens. Ever.

The more I kept on reading, the more I kept on wondering "Am I supposed to care about this?". Didn't even click on the Gawker link. Obviously.

Post by **Shirley** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:54 pm

rass wrote:The story has blown up a bit in general.

Interesting how polarizing that article seems to be. I noticed in the comments to that piece that almost none of the critical posters, the ones bashing Hannan for being transphobic, mention all of the other deceit and fraud committed by "Dr. V." Given that she lied about so much of her background, how and why are people so sure that the trans part is the only reason she committed suicide? When I read the article, I certainly didn't read it that way. That was only a part of the discovered lie, and to the point of the article, the magical golf club, it was a fairly insignificant aspect of the story - just extra spice to make the story a bit weirder.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:30 am

Scottie wrote:
The more I kept on reading, the more I kept on wondering "Am I supposed to care about this?". Didn't even click on the Gawker link. Obviously.

That makes two of us.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:59 am

I intended to read this yesterday because the link was dropped here but forgot. It appears the internet has done that for me. I don't feel the need to read it now. I'll just read all of your opinions and nod my head in agreement even if any of them are differing.

Post by **brian** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:57 pm

Very well written and thoughtful mea culpa from Bill Simmons.

howard · Post by **howard** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:37 pm

I don't know. Because I could not get very far. Because of the bullshit at the top. Third paragraph:

So what did we screw up? Well, that’s where it gets complicated.

Bullshit. Calling it complicated (when in truth it is very simple) is an attempt to attenuate your responsibility for a mistake.

Next line:

On Wednesday morning, we posted a well-written feature by Caleb Hannan…

What the fuck is the relevance of the 'well-written'? A second attempt to weaken your responsibility. 'Such a well-written piece, we were so distracted by the well-written-ness to notice the mistake.

Oh, and it was not well-written. A well-written piece would've at the very least had much less emphasis on the gender issue, or ignored it. The 'well-written' descriptive is a lie.

Then he describes the wonderful, thorough editorial 'process'. This sets up blaming the process, not the actual people who approved the publication of this essay. Flavored with this quote:

We have a system. Everyone weighs in. I delegate as much as humanly possible…

Bill delegates. So, not his responsibility.
[/parsing Simmon's lame bullshit] Point made, and for all I know he may well have redeemed himself and sincerely apologized. Further down, this piece may well have been well written, thoughtful, and a true mea culpa. I don't know; I read no further because the first couple hundred words were such bullshit.

I've said it many times, and I will repeat. Fuck Bill Simmons. Yeah, I used to like him. He still entertains and informs me on occasion. My reaction to Grantland is similar. They fucked up; most of what they print is not of interest to me. Occasionally they entertain or inform me. But I generally don't read it, cause I generally don't like their attitude, as well as their content.

Another Grantland piece was honest and straightforward, from the start. This flavor of truth:

But we’re not here because Hannan and his editors blew a pronoun and that’s rude…

We’re here because Essay Anne Vanderbilt is dead.

http://grantland.com/features/what-grantland-got-wrong/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Scottie · Post by **Scottie** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:40 pm

I didn't read it because Bill Simmons.

Johnny Carwash · Post by **Johnny Carwash** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:46 pm

Simmons did some dancing early, but he eventually said this:

Ultimately, it was my call. So if you want to rip anyone involved in this process, please, direct your anger and your invective at me. Don’t blame Caleb or anyone that works for me. It’s my site and anything this significant is my call. Blame me. I didn’t ask the biggest and most important question before we ran it — that’s my fault and only my fault.

He did act quickly, ran this front and center, and brought in a guest columnist to run a pretty critical take. It may not seem especially heroic in light of what happened, but he could have weaseled out and much of his audience would have let it sail.

Post by **brian** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:54 pm

Yeah, he equivocated a little at the beginning, but I thought by the end he really seemed legitimately chastened and contrite and at the end of the day, that's what's important.

howard · Post by **howard** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:28 pm

Fair enough. I am happy to accept that.

Sorry Bill Simmons:

Johnny Carwash · Post by **Johnny Carwash** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:28 pm

Been thinking though this some more. An important point to take away from Simmons's account is that Grantland was still on the fence over whether the story was noteworthy enough for publication until learning of the subject's suicide. I think, at that point, with the damage done, you have to run the story--maybe not in its original form, but at least disclosing what happened in some way--when you consider the alternative: someone else finding out about the sequence of events (think Deadspin and Manti Te'o, but in a case with far more gravity), reporting it as "ESPN kills a person and then covers it up" and causing an even bigger shitstorm than what we have. It's the ultimate CYA, but in terms of damage control I don't see how you could not make it public in some way.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:52 am

But most importantly - will the putter shave a couple of strokes off my game?

DSafetyGuy · Post by **DSafetyGuy** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:24 am

One of the things that distracted me was how Simmons kept calling it "my site". Even in this situation, it felt like he was just bragging.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:55 am

Howard, I think the "well-written" verbiage was strictly for Hannan. If 14 editors looked at it and decided to go with it, it kinda has to be well-written, even if it didn't handle the subject appropriately. I think a lot of what Thomas Friedman writes misses points but I wouldn't deny that he writes very well.

And I do think it's unfair to say "ESPN killed her."

The biggest failure by grantland, to me, was not having Karhl look at it at all. They had the resource available and didn't use it.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:57 am

DSafetyGuy wrote:One of the things that distracted me was how Simmons kept calling it "my site". Even in this situation, it felt like he was just bragging.

Eh. I think he was trying to prove the point that ultimately it was his decision. We laud coaches who take the blame for losses and heap praise on the players for the wins, and that's what he was doing by reiterating that it is his site. Most of us have had situations where a boss takes heat form his boss for something we've done. It's part of being professional and it comes with positions of authority.

DSafetyGuy · Post by **DSafetyGuy** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:22 pm

AB_skin_test wrote:
DSafetyGuy wrote:One of the things that distracted me was how Simmons kept calling it "my site". Even in this situation, it felt like he was just bragging.
Eh. I think he was trying to prove the point that ultimately it was his decision. We laud coaches who take the blame for losses and heap praise on the players for the wins, and that's what he was doing by reiterating that it is his site. Most of us have had situations where a boss takes heat form his boss for something we've done. It's part of being professional and it comes with positions of authority.

I understood what he was doing. Still, after posting you are the editor-in-chief and make the final decision, there is no reason to use "my."

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:11 pm

This 30 for 30 short (actually not that short, at about 20 minutes), about the Centennial Park bombing, is fantastic.

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:00 pm

govmentchedda wrote:This 30 for 30 short (actually not that short, at about 20 minutes), about the Centennial Park bombing, is fantastic.

I'm not even going to share where I was that night.

BSF21 · Post by **BSF21** » Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:12 pm

My dad's buddy was right outside the blast radius if that makes you feel better.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:18 pm

My parents and sister had just left the park, and heard the blast.

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:53 am

We had been there within the hour as well. I used what I learned that day to get me through 9/11.

rass · Post by **rass** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:02 pm

Good piece on golf writer Dan Jenkins, though I generally enjoy stories about the good old days of reporting (sports or not).

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:18 pm

Haven't read the Jenkins piece yet. Looking forward to it. He's a funny follow on Twitter.

howard · Post by **howard** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:39 pm

I'll look forward to that. I've been a long time Jenkins fan. I still quote random stuff from Semi Tough, (like "Aggies is semi-rural) and Dead Solid Perfect.

Do Not Watch the Movie Semi Tough. Horrible. Fun novel, bad bad movie.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:53 pm

Anybody else the Big East film? Nothing groundbreaking but I loved it simply for nostalgia factor. I know the intent was to show the rise and fall, but it's too bad they couldn't find room for just a few more 90s-00s moments. Still, pretty impressive to fill 2 hours of entertainment without one mention of Coleman, Douglas, Kittles, Iverson, Allen, Hamilton, Mourning, Mutombo, etc. and only passing mentions of Seton Hall, Pitino, and Carmelo.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:28 pm

I caught a small bit of it, somewhere about 1.5 hrs in. Tranghese came across poorly, in my opinion.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:37 pm

Gavitt was pretty much canonized in the first 90 minutes, so I doubt that was an unintended effect. They all but threw in a record-scratching sound effect when Tranghese took over. Also, Rollie and Lou are the greatest.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:58 pm

Part of what I caught had scenes from Gavitt's funeral. Seemed like he was well thought of.*

*worst commentary ever

Post by **brian** » Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:02 pm

Great piece for Grantland's Detroit week about Elmore Leonard.

Reminds me I have to go back and re-read some of his novels because I had no idea one of them is set in the same apartment building I used to live in on Lafayette Street.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:11 pm

Hillsborough was thoroughly amazing

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:00 pm

Didn't get to watch it yet, but just spent 2 hours in a wiki wormhole about the incident. Fucking Charles Itandje, right?

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:05 am

Ryan wrote:Hillsborough was thoroughly amazing

Yes...totally. And disturbing. And I was completely pissed off by the end of it.

The scene from the 20th Anniversary Memorial...where the Liverpool fans shut up the designated politician, by singing "Justice for the 96", was incredible.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:29 am

Did you see the highlights from this week's match?

I didn't see the documentary yet, so forgive me if I'm repeating anything.

Of course, the 25th anniversary of the disaster was yesterday, so Sunday's match was the day that Liverpool FC honored the victims. I highly recommend going to NBCsports.com/liveextra and trying to find a recap of the game (only available until 4/18), or going to the NBC sports site and looking for a weekend recap.

Liverpool, once titans of English football, but without a league championship since 1990 (before the Premier League was formed), are back as serious title contenders for the first time in years. Longtime Liverpool captain, Steven Gerrard, is aging, but still quite effective, and seemingly rejuvenated this year. Gerrard's cousin is one of the 96 that died at Hillsborough.

The game begins with a moment of silence, and tifo (sign honoring the victims). Liverpool came into the game knowing that if they win their remaining 5 games, they win the league. Manchester City, Sunday's opponent and champion from two years ago, also would win the league if they win out. Each team controls their own destiny. Liverpool streak out to a 2-0 lead in the first half, only to have Manchester City come back and equalize. A mistake by Manchester City's best defenders leads to the go ahead goal. Liverpool have one player get sent off for a bad tackle, and likely should have had their best player, Luis Suarez sent off as well for a second yellow card, but hold on for the win. As the referee blows the final whistle, Gerrard begins to cry.

cerrano · Post by **cerrano** » Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:59 am

DaveInSeattle wrote:
Ryan wrote:Hillsborough was thoroughly amazing
Yes...totally. And disturbing. And I was completely pissed off by the end of it.

The scene from the 20th Anniversary Memorial...where the Liverpool fans shut up the designated politician, by singing "Justice for the 96", was incredible.

watched it this morning. that moment got me too.

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:11 am

brian wrote:Great piece for Grantland's Detroit week about Elmore Leonard.

Reminds me I have to go back and re-read some of his novels because I had no idea one of them is set in the same apartment building I used to live in on Lafayette Street.

Fuck yes. I'm going to start from the very begining and read those I havent, as well as re-read those I have.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:14 am

cerrano wrote:
DaveInSeattle wrote:
Ryan wrote:Hillsborough was thoroughly amazing
Yes...totally. And disturbing. And I was completely pissed off by the end of it.

The scene from the 20th Anniversary Memorial...where the Liverpool fans shut up the designated politician, by singing "Justice for the 96", was incredible.
watched it this morning. that moment got me too.

Ditto. That guy just stood there not knowing what to do.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:50 pm

sancarlos wrote:That guy just stood there not knowing what to do.

"I'd have heard about it if this guy shoots himself in the face right now, right?" - My wife