NCAA FB 2023

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Mon Oct 30, 2023 7:11 pm

I kinda hope he IS wearing a ninja suit.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Mon Oct 30, 2023 7:25 pm

That is gonna fuck up a running IoWatch feature on the MI site I follow.

Seriously though... That's gotta be one of the weirdest teams in terms of unbalanced production in all of sports.

Post by **brian** » Tue Oct 31, 2023 6:56 pm

I did not have “Central Michigan will be pulled into the Stallions investigation” on my bingo card but here we are.

rass · Post by **rass** » Tue Oct 31, 2023 7:13 pm

brian wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 6:56 pm I did not have “Central Michigan will be pulled into the Stallions investigation” on my bingo card but here we are.

I guess “someone on the CMU staff was bribed to let Stalions on the sideline” is more detrimental but “Stalions infiltrated the CMU sideline on his own” is more embarrassing.

But maybe not as embarrassing as going to all that trouble for this MSU team.

Post by **brian** » Tue Oct 31, 2023 7:22 pm

There was no bribing. The ties between the CMU and UM staff are deep. McElwain is a former Harbaugh assistant amongst others.

Post by **brian** » Tue Oct 31, 2023 8:24 pm

CMU somehow actually looks decent tonight. They were the worst 4-4 team in the country by a million miles coming into tonight. If they can beat Western, winning the Victory Cannon, Michigan MAC Trophy and getting bowl eligible all at once that’s a decent season.

Post by **brian** » Tue Oct 31, 2023 8:49 pm

brian wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 8:24 pm CMU somehow actually looks decent tonight. They were the worst 4-4 team in the country by a million miles coming into tonight. If they can beat Western, winning the Victory Cannon, Michigan MAC Trophy and getting bowl eligible all at once that’s a decent season.

As soon as I post this NIU starts shoving it down their throats. Can’t have nice things.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Fri Nov 03, 2023 10:09 am

Given that all this Michigan stuff apparently involves games that haven't happened and you can't just be like "well don't use it", shouldn't there be talk of forfeits here? Or will they get to play it out, probably win a lot and then later on its vacated which no one cares about? Big school bias or me overreacting?

MaxWebster · Post by **MaxWebster** » Fri Nov 03, 2023 11:57 am

i know nothing about college football but will be in attendance at Pitt/FSU tomorrow.

i figure getting there for kickoff is smart since that seems like it'll be the only time the game is close

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Fri Nov 03, 2023 12:32 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 10:09 am Given that all this Michigan stuff apparently involves games that haven't happened and you can't just be like "well don't use it", shouldn't there be talk of forfeits here? Or will they get to play it out, probably win a lot and then later on its vacated which no one cares about? Big school bias or me overreacting?

That's not happening. There is a TON of misinformation in the "reporting" on this topic. Calling to punish a team when there isn't even a formal complaint or allegation of wrong-doiong is bonkers. The idea that this was a sanctioned activity that goes all the way up the chain is not supported by any available facts.

MI did a full review of phones, laptops etc before they turned that stuff over and they are still, reportedly, prepared to offer Harbaugh a massive contract. Kind of odd to do that if they know he's going to get jettisoned into the sun.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Fri Nov 03, 2023 12:45 pm

I always trust high level athletic departments to be forthright about what they found and turned over. No chance for malarkey, shenanigans, chicanery or general tomfoolery.

Why not send it fedex?

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Fri Nov 03, 2023 12:56 pm

That's not really the point. They had to turn all that stuff over and any decent forensics team will know if they went around wholesale deleting shit.

=-=-=-=

I would also say this, and this is something my broadcaster buddy pointed out this morning: Yes, everyone thinks MI's sanctimonious bullshit is obnoxious and they "deserve" this. But folks should be a little worried about what is going on here. Be REALLY careful about opening up this line of "attack." This "report" and investigation was funded and carried out by someone. If it gets to the point where the NCAA or B1G* goes after MI and runs Harbaugh out... The source of this is going to come out... It probably will anyways... If it turns out a rival school went through that effort, all Hell is going to break loose.

I highly doubt most top D1 football programs would stand up to a full-blown investigation and audit.

I would also add, the FBI has Kansas and a few other schools dead-to-right paying players. What punishment was doled out? How about UNC caught with the fake class scandal? No punishment because other students also "took the class?" C'mon.

Some dude going over the line on something that is otherwise FULLY within the bounds of the rules? That's somehow this massive scandal to everyone? The fainting couch bullshit from all these talking heads is fucking ridiculous. Again, you are allowed to decode ("steal") signs in college football. You aren't allowed to send staff to do so because poorer schools didn't want to spend the money.

Again, the reporting on this is clickbait sensational nonsense.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Fri Nov 03, 2023 1:15 pm

Well ... you aren't allowed to send staff to other schools ahead of time because then hand signals would have to change each week, no? And if you did send that staff and that staff didn't just sit quietly with what they know, then now you know every play that's coming. No? I'm not saying this seems like an Astros-esque advantage, but ... it kinda does?

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Fri Nov 03, 2023 1:36 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 1:15 pm Well ... you aren't allowed to send staff to other schools ahead of time because then hand signals would have to change each week, no? And if you did send that staff and that staff didn't just sit quietly with what they know, then now you know every play that's coming. No? I'm not saying this seems like an Astros-esque advantage, but ... it kinda does?

The signals are easily captured on scouting video and during live broadcasts.

This guy is VERY dumb to have gone this extra step, but the fact remains that every team does some version of this decoding and it's perfectly legal.

MI has been "really good" at sign stealing going back to 2021. Every team in the B1G knows this. The idea that they wouldn't change signals on a regular basis, or go to wristbands or whatever is insanity.

MSU threatened to cancel out of concerns for player safety and then went through the performative act of running in plays. They were fully aware. The lost 49-0.

You also need to ask, with billions of dollars floating around, and the very easy fix of helmet mics... why don't coaches want to just make this issue go away? (Hint: They all do this and think they can gain an advantage decoding signals... Again, the fainting couch ANONYMOUS quotes from coaches are ridiculous and self-serving.)

Post by **Shirley** » Fri Nov 03, 2023 2:11 pm

A_B wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 12:45 pm I always trust high level athletic departments to be forthright about what they found and turned over. No chance for malarkey, shenanigans, chicanery or general tomfoolery.

Why not send it fedex?

I thought Kentucky preferred Emery?

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Fri Nov 03, 2023 2:12 pm

Shirley wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 2:11 pm
A_B wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 12:45 pm I always trust high level athletic departments to be forthright about what they found and turned over. No chance for malarkey, shenanigans, chicanery or general tomfoolery.

Why not send it fedex?
I thought Kentucky preferred Emery?

Well they'd be expecting that!

(I had forgotten)

Post by **brian** » Fri Nov 03, 2023 2:13 pm

Any coach that is using the same sets of signs at the end of the season as the beginning of the season deserves to be immediately fired. Full stop.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Fri Nov 03, 2023 3:36 pm

https://www.on3.com/teams/michigan-wolv ... extension/

Where the info comes from isn't necessarily the point in terms of culpability and eventual punishments... But if this turns out to be true...

I'm just gonna leave it there. I mentioned up thread, this shit is going to get extremely ugly if it's true that Ryan Day's brothers are behind this.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Fri Nov 03, 2023 3:38 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 3:36 pm https://www.on3.com/teams/michigan-wolv ... extension/

Where the info comes from isn't necessarily the point in terms of culpability and eventual punishments... But if this turns out to be true...

I'm just gonna leave it there. I mentioned up thread, this shit is going to get extremely ugly if it's true that Ryan Day's brothers are behind this.

Who cares who found out about the cheating if it's independently verified or proven?

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Fri Nov 03, 2023 3:38 pm

I don't get how them being suspicious and trying to get to the bottom of it changes Michigan's problem. IT's icky, yeah, but at least defensible.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Fri Nov 03, 2023 3:51 pm

Like I said upthread, and in that post just now, it doesn't matter in terms of uncovering something... It's the war they have (allegedly) kicked off on a front that a school like OSU, who has a pretty checkered past, might not want to start.

Losing 2 years in a row and acting like it was because of sign stealing is very bitch-like behavior. As brian and I have stressed, if you can't figure out how to change your signs or play-calling with all of the rumblings about effective sign stealing, that's your fucking incompetence.

If you told me MI was stealing headset calls? Absolutely throw the book at them. Sign stealing is not illegal, mainly because it's incredibly easy to just change the signs week-to-week.

Those guys talk all the time about MI being the only game of the year they plan for all year. What's their excuse for this, if they want to claim sign stealing? It's ludicrous and I'm surprised so many are just gobbling up the media coverage without doing just a tiny bit of critical and logical thinking.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Fri Nov 03, 2023 3:53 pm

A_B wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 3:38 pm I don't get how them being suspicious and trying to get to the bottom of it changes Michigan's problem. IT's icky, yeah, but at least defensible.

Let me put it to you this way... If the brother of the head coach of Louisville was behind some private investigation of the players/coaches at Big Blue and it turned up some wonky rules infraction... Kentucky fans would just say: "Oh, cool, thanks for the audit!" and move on.

C'mon guys.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Fri Nov 03, 2023 4:06 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 3:51 pm Like I said upthread, and in that post just now, it doesn't matter in terms of uncovering something... It's the war they have (allegedly) kicked off on a front that a school like OSU, who has a pretty checkered past, might not want to start.

Losing 2 years in a row and acting like it was because of sign stealing is very bitch-like behavior. As brian and I have stressed, if you can't figure out how to change your signs or play-calling with all of the rumblings about effective sign stealing, that's your fucking incompetence.

If you told me MI was stealing headset calls? Absolutely throw the book at them. Sign stealing is not illegal, mainly because it's incredibly easy to just change the signs week-to-week.

Those guys talk all the time about MI being the only game of the year they plan for all year. What's their excuse for this, if they want to claim sign stealing? It's ludicrous and I'm surprised so many are just gobbling up the media coverage without doing just a tiny bit of critical and logical thinking.

My understanding is the method with which they were stealing signs, via Connor Stallions and his lackeys, was absolutely illegal.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Fri Nov 03, 2023 4:16 pm

Absolutely looks like he broke rules. The problem is that it's being reported with baited breath like ANY sign stealing is illegal. Just listen to the way they are talking about it.

Even I just fucked up and said illegal. There's, obviously, nothing legal or illegal about it. It's the framing that I'm talking about.

And, look, I know I'm being "that guy" on this and defending "my team." At the end of the day, there should be a fine, probably suspend Harbaugh under the new "he should've known" clause and move on.

But forfeiting games and punishing the team this year is bonkers. And that would come from the Conference and not the NCAA, just to be clear. As that article states, anything that precludes M from the conf. championship or playoffs is going to draw legal action.

HaulCitgo · Post by **HaulCitgo** » Fri Nov 03, 2023 4:17 pm

Nonlinear about to start taking about mona Lisa vito

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Fri Nov 03, 2023 4:24 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 4:16 pmThe problem is that it's being reported with baited breath like ANY sign stealing is illegal.

Maybe I'm lost, but isn't this also the same as the Astros? There are legal ways to steal signs and if you do its a massive advantage. They didn't go the legal route which is the same massive advantage but waaaaaaay outside the rules?

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Fri Nov 03, 2023 4:31 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 4:24 pm
Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 4:16 pmThe problem is that it's being reported with baited breath like ANY sign stealing is illegal.
Maybe I'm lost, but isn't this also the same as the Astros? There are legal ways to steal signs and if you do its a massive advantage. They didn't go the legal route which is the same massive advantage but waaaaaaay outside the rules?

NLFC is right, "legal or Illegal" isn't accurate terminology. Mister D is right, this is very much like the Astros or Spygate.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Fri Nov 03, 2023 4:32 pm

Maybe I just listen to smart NCAAFB media, but I haven't seen anyone say ANY and ALL sign stealing is against the rules.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Fri Nov 03, 2023 4:36 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 4:24 pm
Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 4:16 pmThe problem is that it's being reported with baited breath like ANY sign stealing is illegal.
Maybe I'm lost, but isn't this also the same as the Astros? There are legal ways to steal signs and if you do its a massive advantage. They didn't go the legal route which is the same massive advantage but waaaaaaay outside the rules?

Which is why they deserve to be punished. And, I'm not gonna rehash all of what I wrote. I'm saying what he did was marginal. There is tape of sidelines available from broadcast scouting services. Sending people to games was just stupid and unnecessary because this guy was a zealot.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Fri Nov 03, 2023 4:38 pm

govmentchedda wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 4:31 pm
mister d wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 4:24 pm
Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 4:16 pmThe problem is that it's being reported with baited breath like ANY sign stealing is illegal.
Maybe I'm lost, but isn't this also the same as the Astros? There are legal ways to steal signs and if you do its a massive advantage. They didn't go the legal route which is the same massive advantage but waaaaaaay outside the rules?
NLFC is right, "legal or Illegal" isn't accurate terminology. Mister D is right, this is very much like the Astros or Spygate.

The Astros analogy doesn't work because they weren't stealing signs and conveying in the middle of the game. If we're talking about the impact on the actual game. Spygate, I don't remember the details, but I'd go back to the point that sidelines are fully covered by snippets of broadcasts and scouting services.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Fri Nov 03, 2023 4:44 pm

govmentchedda wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 4:32 pm Maybe I just listen to smart NCAAFB media, but I haven't seen anyone say ANY and ALL sign stealing is against the rules.

It's more about those out there acting like this "advantage" was giving MI 2 TD advantages per game. C'mon with that shit.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Fri Nov 03, 2023 6:20 pm

Don’t want o quote tweet one from a while back but i totally get the louisville analogy. But I also am just waiting for the shoe to drop so I’m not that fan personally. But I get it. But they still likely cheated.

rass · Post by **rass** » Fri Nov 03, 2023 7:03 pm

UM fans reduced to the Calipari defense, huh?

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Fri Nov 03, 2023 7:10 pm

rass wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 7:03 pm UM fans reduced to the Calipari defense, huh?

It’s not a great place!

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Fri Nov 03, 2023 7:15 pm

Or the Briles-esque “how am I supposed to know everything that happens in the program, I’m just the head coach!” defense?

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Fri Nov 03, 2023 8:48 pm

(because of course a football and basketball staff are the same size)

/fuck, leave it alone

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Fri Nov 03, 2023 9:40 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 4:16 pm Absolutely looks like he broke rules. The problem is that it's being reported with baited breath like ANY sign stealing is illegal. Just listen to the way they are talking about it.

no it's not

rass · Post by **rass** » Sat Nov 04, 2023 12:23 pm

Gotta score some TDs here NJ University

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Sat Nov 04, 2023 12:40 pm

rass wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 12:23 pm Gotta score some TDs here NJ University

Maybe not?

Post by **brian** » Sat Nov 04, 2023 2:01 pm

I hate Nebraska but the officiating in this MSU-Huskers game is shady as hell. They reviewed a MSU TD which clearly looked like not a catch to me then MSU did a Stone Cold Stunner on a Neb WR like 3 seconds before the ball got to him and no call. This is some Donaghy shit.