NCAA Basketball 23-24

[Giff]

Bloodbath this week for ranked teams.

[Nonlinear FC]

This thread was at the bottom of page 3 in case anyone wonders how compelling this season has been.

That said, all the wacky re-alignment due to football leads to some happy accidents in basketball like UCF getting to notch a home conference upset over Kansas.

It's funny, I was just thinking that the College FB thread got a lot more run than usual this year. Which got me thinking about the proclivities of this board and ranking which ones get the most run.

Then I stopped pooping and the thought escaped me... until now.

[Shirley]

I learned years ago that this board isn't a particularly strong board for college hoops.

This season has been a trying one for Virginia fans. We're spoiled and not used to being mediocre. The recent teams haven't been great, but they've been mostly competitive, especially in the weakened ACC. But there are a lot of signs that this UVA team will struggle to stay above .500 in the (still weak) ACC.

[A_B]

I think it's harder to follow college hoops as closely as football. Obviously the number of teams, but also playing nearly all the games on the same day makes it appointment couch sitting.

Plus few of you people like blue bloods.

[Giff]

Green bloods.

[A_B]

Green bloods.

Simmer down a little. Let's let the title count get over the body count at least.

[Giff]

That was good.

[duff]

I would like it on record that I love the new arena at Baylor.

[sancarlos]

I’m more interested this year, because my alma mater has a reasonably good team.

[Giff]

I would like it on record that I love the new arena at Baylor.

It is fantastic inside for the most part. There aren't any main restrooms or concessions on the top so you have to take stairs to get either. They did have some family restrooms, but they weren't open yet. The main concourse is great with a lot of huge canvases of the big moments from both the men's and women's teams, along with courts from the national championships. I can't imagine there's a bad seat in there and I love how you feel like you're on top of the court (we were about halfway up the upper level at the baseline). I watched a game televised from there the first time the other night when they beat BYU and that camera view is going to take some getting used to for Baylor fans.

My sister got a brick honoring my Dad on the path walking up to the entrance. It was raining cats and dogs as we were going in, but I was somehow able to find it. We were happy the rain hid the tears.

[GoodKarma]

I’m more interested this year, because my alma mater has a reasonably good team.

The shine has kind of worn off after the last two games

[brian]

I’m more interested this year, because my alma mater has a reasonably good team.

I don’t watch as closely as I once did but feels like they’ve been pretty good for a few years now.

[Nonlinear FC]

I followed the team pretty closely during the Beilein years, and Juwan took over and seemed ready to take the team to another level. And, well, I guess he has, just not in the right direction.

This is only gonna be interesting to me, but... When Harbaugh figured out that their best route to success was to take 3 and 4 stars that his staff thought the scouting companies had missed on, and to develop those guys into very specific offensive and defensive type players, he finally unlocked the key to building the team. And once the portal opened up, his staff was all over that and the last three years, almost all of those portal guys have been massive-->good contributors.

The NC team has something like 3 5*'s on it.

Beilein was VERY similar in how he recruited... Looking for guys that ppl missed and developing them. I don't remember how many 5*'s he had over his tenure, but certainly nothing like the KY's and Duke's and UNCs of the world. His track record, both in terms of titles and NCAA appearances, in addition to his putting kids in the NBA, speaks for itself. He took a fucking kid from Williams and developed him enough to be more than a bit player on some very good teams, at both the collegiate and pro level.

Howard came in promising to bring in 5 stars, and he has... And the results speak for themselves.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

I say all of that to say, I'm kind of just bored with the current state of the game. Turning over almost all of your roster ever year? I mean, fine... I just don't really have a connection to most of the players on the roster that I have usually known name and number 9-10 deep. I know I've been pretty distracted this year, but when I've tuned in, this MI team is just so horrible at the end of games. Not sure what that's all about, but the rumblings about Juwan are getting pretty loud at this point.


/content

[Shirley]

The new transfer rules, while obviously the right thing to do for players, has had a negative overall impact on the sport. For a while now, folks have made fun of Duke and Kentucky fans for having to learn a new roster every year (even if their rosters were stacked with talent). Now EVERY school deals with that, and it's problematic. Not only is it hard to learn the players on your own team, but you can't keep track of who's good in your own conference. Even weirder is the increasingly common phenomenon of seeing the same player on two (or more!) conference teams in a short span.

And then, for system coaches like Tony Bennett, it's especially hard because he's always relied on players learning his defense for a year or more before playing them a bunch. That's rarely an option any more, and you can see it in UVA's defensive rankings in recent years. He, and coaches like him, or going to have to learn new systems that are faster to learn and don't depend on a year plus of working together. I suspect it may lead to less variety between teams.

[DSafetyGuy]

The new transfer rules, while obviously the right thing to do for players, has had a negative overall impact on the sport. For a while now, folks have made fun of Duke and Kentucky fans for having to learn a new roster every year (even if their rosters were stacked with talent). Now EVERY school deals with that, and it's problematic. Not only is it hard to learn the players on your own team, but you can't keep track of who's good in your own conference. Even weirder is the increasingly common phenomenon of seeing the same player on two (or more!) conference teams in a short span.

And then, for system coaches like Tony Bennett, it's especially hard because he's always relied on players learning his defense for a year or more before playing them a bunch. That's rarely an option any more, and you can see it in UVA's defensive rankings in recent years. He, and coaches like him, or going to have to learn new systems that are faster to learn and don't depend on a year plus of working together. I suspect it may lead to less variety between teams.

Not the only team in the conference that had that problem, past tense intended.

[mister d]

I don't think fans learning new players matters all that much. You're rooting for the shirts at an even more extreme level than with the pros.

[wlu_lax6]

I don't think fans learning new players matters all that much. You're rooting for the shirts at an even more extreme level than with the pros.

While that may get you in the door, having a few years with players build connection and interest over just looking up the score. I follow the Terps (nice 12 point comeback in the 2nd half win over Michigan) and generally look up the rosters. When the Terps blew the game against MN last week I looked at the Gopher's roster. It was 75% transfers; including one kid on his 4th school.

Also larger, college basketball's level of play has been getting worse. I like the college game better than the pro. Just find the offense and defense more interesting than the NBA. It generally had diversity in approaches based on the teams. But these kids can't shoot and the college game has gotten a bit too formulaic.

[DaveInSeattle]

I don't think fans learning new players matters all that much. You're rooting for the shirts at an even more extreme level than with the pros.

But these kids can't shoot...

Tell me about it....Gonzaga lost last night, by 1, at the buzzer, in a game where they shot 2/20 on 3 pointers. Just UGLY..

[Shirley]

I don't think fans learning new players matters all that much. You're rooting for the shirts at an even more extreme level than with the pros.

I'm not sure of your justification for that. Maybe that's true for casual fans who don't really follow until the tournament? Until recently, players rarely changed teams in college, so you could root for players and not just teams. It was only in the pros that your favorite player could leave and go play for a rival.

Part of the fun of college is watching players develop. Seeing a talented, but error-prone freshman who might have a hard time getting minutes grow into a capable player, and then sometimes a star, is a lot of fun. But that's becoming much less common now.

At big programs, talented kids get frustrated with playing time while they're learning, so they transfer, often down to a lower tier.

At smaller programs, if you find that diamond who can make a difference for your program, he instead transfers up to a big program the next year.

It's creating a de facto promotion-regulation system on a per-player basis within the same leagues. I'm not sure it inherently makes the product worse. Maybe it's good that it's easier for players to find teams where they fit better. But at the same time, multi-year cohesion is becoming rarer and rarer.

[HaulCitgo]

Refs really trying to give Kentucky a game. Investigation please

[Nonlinear FC]

Yeah, I fundamentally disagree with the idea of rooting for shirts. Especially when you're talking about college.

[A_B]

Yeah, I fundamentally disagree with the idea of rooting for shirts. Especially when you're talking about college.

That makes zero sense.

[sancarlos]

Yeah, I fundamentally disagree with the idea of rooting for shirts. Especially when you're talking about college.

That makes zero sense.

Pretty sure Nonlinear was rooting for the maize and blue shirts last Monday evening.

[A_B]

So he was on the side of rooting for shirts? I missed that I suppose. My bad.

[brian]

Yeah I get what Mr D and AB are saying. It’s rare for kids to stay more than two years in CB especially at the highest conferences. I honestly think there’s a Moneyball type situation for high mid-majors to win a national title if they can just convince a 3-star recruiting class to stick around 4 years.

[mister d]

That’s definitely the formula for mid and low majors to have not quite surprising upsets in the tourney.

[Nonlinear FC]

I mean, just to clarify, I follow UM sports to the extent that I know the names and some backstory of the flippin' hockey team down to the 3rd lines. I hit a site daily that allows me to really get to know every player on the basketball team and AT LEAST 2 deep on the football team. I also casually follow the recruiting of both of those squads and somewhat on the hockey side.

So, I'm probably (certainly?) an outlier, but I absolutely don't just root for a team without also getting pretty in depth on the roster.

Sorry if that "makes zero sense" but that's how I do.

Maybe I'm fundamentally misunderstanding something?

[wlu_lax6]

Terps take down Illinois away. The turtles decide to go inside (Which is a good idea when your team shoots like garbage...especially from the 3). But they really looked good defensively. Just committed to the half-court defense and Illinois looked slow to make decisions.

[Shirley]

I think NLFC, AB, and I were all disagreeing with Mr D's claim that college fans were more likely to root for shirts and not players than pro fans are.


BTW, UVA hoops is officially a disaster now. After a week to prepare, they showed up to Wake Forest and looked completely disinterested in scoring. This is the dreariest UVA team since the Dave Leitao era. Tony Bennett's first couple of teams weren't great, but you could see the obvious improvement and effort. This team just isn't clicking. That said ... they were playing much better earlier in the season and at least two teams they already beat this year (Texas A&M and WVU) upset ranked teams this weekend. So there's reason to believe they could get back on the bubble. But man, they better figure it out quickly.

[A_B]

I am on mIster D's side, mostly. The point is Nonlinear wouldn't go through all that trouble for just some other team. He's (probably) not memorizing the 3rd line of the entire top 25, but rather just Michigan because...that's his laundry.

I do not have a problem with it, mind you! I don't get into, say, women's volleyball until Kentucky is in the tournament or close to the final four even. But I don't tune in to watch Nebraska play for fun. Because they aren't my laundry.

There's so many teams and sports that it's almost impossible to keep up unless you're playing some kind of fantasy that forces you to.

[Nonlinear FC]

Ahh, yes, that's fair.

[wlu_lax6]

I am just exhausted from the commentators (and my curiosity) of wow that guy has played at 3 or 4 power 5 schools. B.t.w. Minnesota has a guy who played at Oregon State (7 games), Idaho (18 games), 2 seasons of Washington State (football), and now a Gopher. And this is way less unique.

[wlu_lax6]

Caitlin Clark ran into the fan not the other way around. Sure she has the right away on the court, but you are the #2 team in the nation and get upset you know it will be a mad house and rushing the court.

[duff]

Caitlin Clark ran into the fan not the other way around. Sure she has the right away on the court, but you are the #2 team in the nation and get upset you know it will be a mad house and rushing the court.

I chuckle each time I watch that clip. The article made it sound like she was standing still and got trucked. Nope.

[Nonlinear FC]

Ok, sure, but it's not like CC went looking for that contact. I don't think the fan was, in any way, trying to bump into her... like, zero chance. But it's also not a case where CC is hamming it up or whatever. Honest "mistake"... but I hate when fans storm the court.

[wlu_lax6]

All I am saying is "Charge" not "block"

[L-Jam3]

We should at least give Tara VanDerveer her plaudits. Not only does her 1,203 wins move her past Coach K for the most of any D-1 coach, she has more victories than 355 of the 360 D-1 women's programs. (Tennessee, UConn, Louisiana Tech, James Madison (?), and Stanford).

The 30 for 30 on the women's 1996 Gold Medal Squad that she coached is a good watch.

[Shirley]

We should at least give Tara VanDerveer her plaudits. Not only does her 1,203 wins move her past Coach K for the most of any D-1 coach, she has more victories than 355 of the 360 D-1 women's programs. (Tennessee, UConn, Louisiana Tech, James Madison (?), and Stanford).

The 30 for 30 on the women's 1996 Gold Medal Squad that she coached is a good watch.

She's obviously a great coach and has had an amazing career, but I don't like when folks make comparisons between men's and women's basketball. It's not really fair to either. The sports are in very different stages of their development, they don't play against each other, they have very different resources, etc.

[wlu_lax6]

Anyone got better googles ability than me. I am hooked on the Amazon Doc on Sierra Canyon. So they just put out Bronny's senior season. The point guard on the team was a 3 year started, Dylan Metoyer. Small PG who did not get recruited until real late his senior year. He committed to Howard, was announced about joining the team, and then poof not on the roster anymore. Just 404s when you click on his profile page with Howard. Seemed like a good kid in the doc, so curious what happened.

[DaveInSeattle]

Weird to see Gonzaga down in the "Also receiving votes" portion of the weekly top 25...