Beijing Winter Olympics 2022

[Rex]

So yeah I went back and compared the two Thursdays. Depressing figure skating reruns got 8.5M on NBC. Men's halfpipe got 11.1M a week earlier. Something that would have been unthinkable in the past.

[degenerasian]

Watched the closing ceremony and I was sad when Milan Corteza did their presentation for 2026. That should have been us.

[pruitt2]

Watched the closing ceremony and I was sad when Milan Corteza did their presentation for 2026. That should have been us.

You'll have kids by then who'll need things like schools, playgrounds and roads. Be thankful Calgary backed out.

[degenerasian]

Watched the closing ceremony and I was sad when Milan Corteza did their presentation for 2026. That should have been us.

You'll have kids by then who'll need things like schools, playgrounds and roads. Be thankful Calgary backed out.

I'm not convinced an Olympics here loses much money. Especially since we would have been reusing old venues and have about 30,000 volunteers. Plus it would be good for business and tourism. We would have to build a new Olympic village and some new venues for the new sports, maybe a small arena to replace the Corral, but the rest is done.

And it's actually a way to get federal and provincial money to piggyback on stuff. Without the 88 Olympics, we wouldn't have half the stuff we have now and we've used the shit out of them. There's no local money to build schools, playgrounds and roads anyways. Without an Olympics, the federal and provincial government would just allocate that money elsewhere.

I'll give you an example. Calgary bid for Expo 2005 and narrowly lost. In the package was promised a high speed train and a 'ring road' highway bypass around the city. It's 2022 and we still don't have those. And I know in Southern Ontario, Pruitt, you guys got a bunch of stuff from the 2015 PanAm Games, like the Toronto Athletic Stadium and Swimming/Fieldhouse and Tim Hortons Field in Hamilton. CFL piggybacked on that to get Hamilton a new stadium instead of footing the bill themselves. And I think your GoTrain got expanded and improved. So the point is to get legacy stuff you wouldn't get without an event.

[pruitt2]

Watched the closing ceremony and I was sad when Milan Corteza did their presentation for 2026. That should have been us.

You'll have kids by then who'll need things like schools, playgrounds and roads. Be thankful Calgary backed out.

I'm not convinced an Olympics here loses much money. Especially since we would have been reusing old venues and have about 30,000 volunteers. Plus it would be good for business and tourism. We would have to build a new Olympic village and some new venues for the new sports, maybe a small arena to replace the Corral, but the rest is done.

And it's actually a way to get federal and provincial money to piggyback on stuff. Without the 88 Olympics, we wouldn't have half the stuff we have now and we've used the shit out of them. There's no local money to build schools, playgrounds and roads anyways. Without an Olympics, the federal and provincial government would just allocate that money elsewhere.

I'll give you an example. Calgary bid for Expo 2005 and narrowly lost. In the package was promised a high speed train and a 'ring road' highway bypass around the city. It's 2022 and we still don't have those. And I know in Southern Ontario, Pruitt, you guys got a bunch of stuff from the 2015 PanAm Games, like the Toronto Athletic Stadium and Swimming/Fieldhouse and Tim Hortons Field in Hamilton. CFL piggybacked on that to get Hamilton a new stadium instead of footing the bill themselves. And I think your GoTrain got expanded and improved. So the point is to get legacy stuff you wouldn't get without an event.

Is a ring road and a new arena worth $13 billion or more? (cost of Peongchang games)

A new CFL stadium built with public funds for a privately owned team, an athletic centre for the University of Toronto and assorted other minor things were definitely not worth $2.5 billion. Which would probably be in the ball park of what Calgary would have to spend on security.

As you've seen, the IOC does not like the idea of repurposing stadiums. Why on earth London needed a new billion dollar stadium when there are any number of big stadiums already built in that city is a good example of this.

[degenerasian]

Watched the closing ceremony and I was sad when Milan Corteza did their presentation for 2026. That should have been us.

You'll have kids by then who'll need things like schools, playgrounds and roads. Be thankful Calgary backed out.

I'm not convinced an Olympics here loses much money. Especially since we would have been reusing old venues and have about 30,000 volunteers. Plus it would be good for business and tourism. We would have to build a new Olympic village and some new venues for the new sports, maybe a small arena to replace the Corral, but the rest is done.

And it's actually a way to get federal and provincial money to piggyback on stuff. Without the 88 Olympics, we wouldn't have half the stuff we have now and we've used the shit out of them. There's no local money to build schools, playgrounds and roads anyways. Without an Olympics, the federal and provincial government would just allocate that money elsewhere.

I'll give you an example. Calgary bid for Expo 2005 and narrowly lost. In the package was promised a high speed train and a 'ring road' highway bypass around the city. It's 2022 and we still don't have those. And I know in Southern Ontario, Pruitt, you guys got a bunch of stuff from the 2015 PanAm Games, like the Toronto Athletic Stadium and Swimming/Fieldhouse and Tim Hortons Field in Hamilton. CFL piggybacked on that to get Hamilton a new stadium instead of footing the bill themselves. And I think your GoTrain got expanded and improved. So the point is to get legacy stuff you wouldn't get without an event.

Is a ring road and a new arena worth $13 billion or more? (cost of Peongchang games)

A new CFL stadium built with public funds for a privately owned team, an athletic centre for the University of Toronto and assorted other minor things were definitely not worth $2.5 billion. Which would probably be in the ball park of what Calgary would have to spend on security.

As you've seen, the IOC does not like the idea of repurposing stadiums. Why on earth London needed a new billion dollar stadium when there are any number of big stadiums already built in that city is a good example of this.

I think we are entering a new phase. Pyeongchang built everything because they lacked venues. That might be the last time a NEW city hosts a Winter Olympics. You may see a Winter Olympic rotation (Europe, NA, Asia). Maybe 6 places (Central Europe, Scandanavia, Canada, US, Japan, China)

Don't think the IOC is going in that direction anymore. Even Beijing reused their summer venues. Paris will be all old venues as well as Milan and LA. Opening ceremonies at Stade de France and San Siro and Sofi Stadium etc...

The Calgary proposal was quite small. The Milan budget is only 1.7 billion. Let's say it is overrun, probably 5 billion max. I'd take that for the money it'll bring back. You're going to have to fix infrastructure anyways, olympics or no olympics. Why not do it with federal money? Watch Vancouver do it properly in 2030.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/o ... 868620001/

[rass]

blurb from The Athletic

The U.S.-Canada women’s gold medal hockey game on NBC (with an 11:15 p.m. ET puck drop) averaged a total audience delivery of 3.54 million viewers, the second-most-watched hockey broadcast in the United States since the October 2019 start of the 2019-20 NHL season. It was just behind NBC’s broadcast of title-clinching Game 5 of the 2021 Stanley Cup Final between Montreal and Tampa Bay (3.62 million TAD).

Feel like that's more notable for the start time than the fact that it was a woman's game.

[Ryan]

Let’s see what the tale of the tape was from Vancouver 2010 though. Surely the provincial auditor-general would conduct some sort of post-Games audit.

In 2011, the provincial auditor-general declined to conduct a post-Games audit.

[degenerasian]

Let’s see what the tale of the tape was from Vancouver 2010 though. Surely the provincial auditor-general would conduct some sort of post-Games audit.

In 2011, the provincial auditor-general declined to conduct a post-Games audit.

Yes, because the provincial government was cooking the numbers. They were fighting over what things were and were not included in the budget.
But those were negligible. I recall the Olympic village was a disaster as the developer backed out the the city had to foot the bill. But overall, the Vancouver Games broke even, give or take a few million.

[tennbengal]

But overall, the Vancouver Games broke even, give or take a few million.

based on???? not the word of the provincial auditor-general, say...

[degenerasian]

But overall, the Vancouver Games broke even, give or take a few million.

based on???? not the word of the provincial auditor-general, say...

It's the official VANOC report of course! Trust it or not. Calgary was trying to use those numbers as a defense for their proposed bid.
And Vancouver is bidding again for 2030, so they may be conning the public again, depending on who you believe.

I'm not saying an Olympics wouldn't lose money but not to the extent of China or Russia who spend to look good. There is some accountability in Western Countries. Again, starting in Paris, we'll see smaller games. No more Greece or Rio debacles.

[The Sybian]

But overall, the Vancouver Games broke even, give or take a few million.

based on???? not the word of the provincial auditor-general, say...

It's the official VANOC report of course! Trust it or not. Calgary was trying to use those numbers as a defense for their proposed bid.
And Vancouver is bidding again for 2030, so they may be conning the public again, depending on who you believe.

I'm not saying an Olympics wouldn't lose money but not to the extent of China or Russia who spend to look good. There is some accountability in Western Countries. Again, starting in Paris, we'll see smaller games. No more Greece or Rio debacles.

It seems like every Olympic city's bid promises an influx of money and infrastructure that will enhance the lives of the civilians for generations, and they almost always end in catastrophic cost overruns, massive deficits and severely underutilized facilities. For the most part, it's a major pain in the ass for the locals.

[Rex]

It’s legitimately the best thing that ever happened to Atlanta. Other cities should try it.

[pruitt2]

But overall, the Vancouver Games broke even, give or take a few million.

based on???? not the word of the provincial auditor-general, say...

It's the official VANOC report of course! Trust it or not. Calgary was trying to use those numbers as a defense for their proposed bid.
And Vancouver is bidding again for 2030, so they may be conning the public again, depending on who you believe.

I'm not saying an Olympics wouldn't lose money but not to the extent of China or Russia who spend to look good. There is some accountability in Western Countries. Again, starting in Paris, we'll see smaller games. No more Greece or Rio debacles.

It seems like every Olympic city's bid promises an influx of money and infrastructure that will enhance the lives of the civilians for generations, and they almost always end in catastrophic cost overruns, massive deficits and severely underutilized facilities. For the most part, it's a major pain in the ass for the locals.

Montreal really set the template. Took 40 years to pay it off, and that's before it became a super-mega event.

[Steve of phpBB]

It’s legitimately the best thing that ever happened to Atlanta. Other cities should try it.

It was great for Salt Lake City also. And the IOC was fine with the U of U's football stadium being used for opening and closing ceremonies, and already-existing arenas used for hockey and figure skating.

[degenerasian]

But overall, the Vancouver Games broke even, give or take a few million.

based on???? not the word of the provincial auditor-general, say...

It's the official VANOC report of course! Trust it or not. Calgary was trying to use those numbers as a defense for their proposed bid.
And Vancouver is bidding again for 2030, so they may be conning the public again, depending on who you believe.

I'm not saying an Olympics wouldn't lose money but not to the extent of China or Russia who spend to look good. There is some accountability in Western Countries. Again, starting in Paris, we'll see smaller games. No more Greece or Rio debacles.

It seems like every Olympic city's bid promises an influx of money and infrastructure that will enhance the lives of the civilians for generations, and they almost always end in catastrophic cost overruns, massive deficits and severely underutilized facilities. For the most part, it's a major pain in the ass for the locals.

Montreal really set the template. Took 40 years to pay it off, and that's before it became a super-mega event.

Well Montreal's a 3rd world country. Mayor Drapeau was insane.

I think going forward, the Olympics, if done correctly, will be a sort of rotation in cities that already have venues. No more building of white elephants like in Athens, Sochi, Rio, Pyeongchang or Beijing (the mountain venues). And I also think the bidding process has changed. Didn't the IOC just give the 2032 Games to Brisbane without a vote?

[pruitt2]

But overall, the Vancouver Games broke even, give or take a few million.

based on???? not the word of the provincial auditor-general, say...

It's the official VANOC report of course! Trust it or not. Calgary was trying to use those numbers as a defense for their proposed bid.
And Vancouver is bidding again for 2030, so they may be conning the public again, depending on who you believe.

I'm not saying an Olympics wouldn't lose money but not to the extent of China or Russia who spend to look good. There is some accountability in Western Countries. Again, starting in Paris, we'll see smaller games. No more Greece or Rio debacles.

It seems like every Olympic city's bid promises an influx of money and infrastructure that will enhance the lives of the civilians for generations, and they almost always end in catastrophic cost overruns, massive deficits and severely underutilized facilities. For the most part, it's a major pain in the ass for the locals.

Montreal really set the template. Took 40 years to pay it off, and that's before it became a super-mega event.

Well Montreal's a 3rd world country. Mayor Drapeau was insane.

I think going forward, the Olympics, if done correctly, will be a sort of rotation in cities that already have venues. No more building of white elephants like in Athens, Sochi, Rio, Pyeongchang or Beijing (the mountain venues). And I also think the bidding process has changed. Didn't the IOC just give the 2032 Games to Brisbane without a vote?

The hype says that the main stadium in Brisbane will not be new, simply "refurbished"." at an estimated cost of $1 billion. Net gain? 8,000 seats.
There will also be 3 new arenas of over 12,000 seats and a new boxing arena.

And here's how they fudge the number on the costs:

organisers of the Brisbane Games said the anticipated $4.5 billion operating budget will be "cost neutral".

However, University of Queensland tourism and events expert Judith Mair said infrastructure expenses were excluded from those projections.

"The problem with that budget is that doesn't include the public transport or the new road infrastructure … it doesn't include the cost of security, it doesn't include the cost of the staff who'll be working in the organising committee," Dr Mair said.

[pruitt2]

It’s legitimately the best thing that ever happened to Atlanta. Other cities should try it.

It was great for Salt Lake City also. And the IOC was fine with the U of U's football stadium being used for opening and closing ceremonies, and already-existing arenas used for hockey and figure skating.

A different era. Hell, I can remember Olympics in Lake Placid and Innsbruck where nothing new had to be built.

[Steve of phpBB]

It’s legitimately the best thing that ever happened to Atlanta. Other cities should try it.

It was great for Salt Lake City also. And the IOC was fine with the U of U's football stadium being used for opening and closing ceremonies, and already-existing arenas used for hockey and figure skating.

A different era. Hell, I can remember Olympics in Lake Placid and Innsbruck where nothing new had to be built.

I don't think it really was a different era, at least not when it comes to things like venue construction. Because the issue you raised about repurposing stadiums was in the discussion back then. (Montreal was a much more recent memory at the time.)

[Ryan]

The speed skating oval in Lake Placid is outdoors in front of the high school.

[degenerasian]

The different era part now is the IOC is no longer giving the olympics to cities that have to build everything new. I think those days are over.

I mean Montreal was insane. They really only built Olympic Parc and the cost overruns and workers going on strike and then having to pay them double or triple to get tuff done. Then of course corruption, alot of concrete was stolen, money in pockets, and the arrogance of Quebecers, they wanted the biggest show on earth, greatest city in the world having has EXPO 67, 9 years earlier. They used to sneer at redneck Toronto compared to cosmopolitan Montreal.

Even Montreal used existing facilities. The Forum for Gymnastics, Maurice Richard Area for Boxing, and the university facilities.

[pruitt2]

The different era part now is the IOC is no longer giving the olympics to cities that have to build everything new. I think those days are over.

I mean Montreal was insane. They really only built Olympic Parc and the cost overruns and workers going on strike and then having to pay them double or triple to get tuff done. Then of course corruption, alot of concrete was stolen, money in pockets, and the arrogance of Quebecers, they wanted the biggest show on earth, greatest city in the world having has EXPO 67, 9 years earlier. They used to sneer at redneck Toronto compared to cosmopolitan Montreal.

Even Montreal used existing facilities. The Forum for Gymnastics, Maurice Richard Area for Boxing, and the university facilities.

And yet it still bankrupted the city and left it in a hell of a hole for 40 years.

I lived in Montreal in the mid-80s. They didn't salt the roads or plow on the weekends. There was pretty much no infrastructure work done for decades because of the fucking Olympics.

It is a rare place indeed that doesn't experience heightened levels of corruption when billions of tax payer dollars are flying around.

My original point still stands - Calgary is lucky to not be shelling out tens of billions to serve as a TV studio for 2 weeks.

[sancarlos]

How many of you are aware of this ancient history? In 1970, Denver was awarded the 1976 Winter Olympics, pending funding approval. But, in November, 1972, Colorado voters rejected a referendum to partially fund the games and for the first time a city awarded an Olympics rejected them.

I was a mere pup at the time, but I remember it well. At that time, refusing to fund an Olympics was an unthinkable heresy in many people's minds.

[DaveInSeattle]

How many of you are aware of this ancient history? In 1970, Denver was awarded the 1976 Winter Olympics, pending funding approval. But, in November, 1972, Colorado voters rejected a referendum to partially fund the games and for the first time a city awarded an Olympics rejected them.

I was a mere pup at the time, but I remember it well. At that time, refusing to fund an Olympics was an unthinkable heresy in many people's minds.

I remember that happening. Like you, I was about as gobsmacked as an 8 year old could be.

The WaPost had a big story about it recently: The story behind the 1976 Denver Olympics that never happened

Because the IOC insisted that venues be within 50 miles of the Athletes’ Village, Denver couldn’t use ski resorts such as Vail or Steamboat Springs — some three hours away at the time — and instead planned to build a downhill course on nearby Mount Sniktau, an often-snowless peak known for howling winds. Cross-country skiing was to be placed in the Denver suburb of Evergreen, which also doesn’t receive much snow.

To get around this, the DOC suggested trucking in snow before eventually convincing the IOC to let it use the mountain resorts for Alpine ski events, offering ambitious visions of helicopter planes that would transport the skiers between Denver and the distant sites.

[Steve of phpBB]

I think I learned of it after the games happened in Innsbruck. I saw someone wearing a Denver 1976 Olympic hat and was very confused.

[pruitt2]

[wlu_lax6]

U-S-A! U-S-A!...I guess? But not like we are the cleanest of countries either.
https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/i ... ng-gold-us

[Rush2112]

Never got around to reading the Post article but I got a brushes with mention "another young activist, Meg Lundstrom, who had been working for the failed presidential campaign of Oklahoma Sen. Fred R. Harris."

Fred Harris was one of my professors at UNM.

[Nonlinear FC]

How many of you are aware of this ancient history? In 1970, Denver was awarded the 1976 Winter Olympics, pending funding approval. But, in November, 1972, Colorado voters rejected a referendum to partially fund the games and for the first time a city awarded an Olympics rejected them.

I was a mere pup at the time, but I remember it well. At that time, refusing to fund an Olympics was an unthinkable heresy in many people's minds.

I remember that happening. Like you, I was about as gobsmacked as an 8 year old could be.

The WaPost had a big story about it recently: The story behind the 1976 Denver Olympics that never happened

Because the IOC insisted that venues be within 50 miles of the Athletes’ Village, Denver couldn’t use ski resorts such as Vail or Steamboat Springs — some three hours away at the time — and instead planned to build a downhill course on nearby Mount Sniktau, an often-snowless peak known for howling winds. Cross-country skiing was to be placed in the Denver suburb of Evergreen, which also doesn’t receive much snow.

To get around this, the DOC suggested trucking in snow before eventually convincing the IOC to let it use the mountain resorts for Alpine ski events, offering ambitious visions of helicopter planes that would transport the skiers between Denver and the distant sites.

1) I have seen Denver 76 t-shirts and wondered what that was all about.

2) Putting an event in Evergreen??! Maybe I'm being too literal, but I can't imagine the traffic congestion up there.