Ball of Confusion

[brian]

Iran attacking Israel is not good right? Though at least Israel is picking a fight with a country that actually has a military unlike Palestine.

[Steve of phpBB]

Iran attacking Israel is not good right? Though at least Israel is picking a fight with a country that actually has a military unlike Palestine.

Israel sees that it’s losing support with Biden and centrist Dems, so Israel provokes Iran into attacking Israel, so now Rs and Dems both will rally behind Israel again.

[L-Jam3]

Watching the videos from the missile volley, could it have been that Iran wanted to give a response as a show but not their major weapons? Because they seemed really easy to shoot down. Almost as if they had to do a show but intentionally made it a relatively non-threatening one as to lessen the risk of an escalation.

Because if not, they have the Iranian version of Nathan Peterman selecting those targets considering how easy those missiles were intercepted.

[brian]

Watching the videos from the missile volley, could it have been that Iran wanted to give a response as a show but not their major weapons? Because they seemed really easy to shoot down. Almost as if they had to do a show but intentionally made it a relatively non-threatening one as to lessen the risk of an escalation.

Because if not, they have the Iranian version of Nathan Peterman selecting those targets considering how easy those missiles were intercepted.

That seems plausible. The mullahs look tough in response, Israel has room to lower the temperature. I doubt either Israel or Iran legitimately want any kind of actual war.

[P.D.X.]

jfc how about feed people instead of putting on multi-million $ fireworks shows

[duff]

The complex doesn't get rich from feeding people.

[brian]

Only Gaza starving bruh. This is the distraction. Even Iran don’t care about that.

[Johnnie]

[sancarlos]

[Giff]

What happened in Austin yesterday is fucking disgusting. Let's just declare the 1st amendment null and void when it comes to certain issues, I guess.

[L-Jam3]

There’s going to be a Kent State/Jackson State tragedy again soon, and the shitbags is going to somehow blame wokeism for it.

[Giff]

There’s going to be a Kent State/Jackson State tragedy again soon, and the shitbags is going to somehow blame wokeism for it.

They definitely won't be upset about it.

All these fuckers would have lost their shit at tea being thrown in a harbor, no doubt.

[EnochRoot]

There’s going to be a Kent State/Jackson State tragedy again soon, and the shitbags is going to somehow blame wokeism for it.

That’s why it’s so important to folks of a particular political persuasion to “ban Tiktok” and codify laws that block youths from social media.

It’s not so much the a voting age so much as being about controlling the message.

[The Sybian]

There’s going to be a Kent State/Jackson State tragedy again soon, and the shitbags is going to somehow blame wokeism for it.

They definitely won't be upset about it.

All these fuckers would have lost their shit at tea being thrown in a harbor, no doubt.

I've been somewhat ignoring these protests because the Israel/Palestine conflict has been raging forever, and there is no right side on this. It sucks all around. I should say both governments (if you can call Hamas a government) make horrible decisions and the people on both sides have endured unthinkable suffering. It just depresses me because I don't see a way out. (I thought Jared Kushner fixed the Middle East?)

Anyways, yes, it's horrible seeing college students roughed up by police and arrested for protesting war crimes. But how do you all feel about the protests at the Ivy schools that seem to be undeterred despite antisemitic overtones and rallying in support of Hamas, not the Palestinian people? I'm getting calls from my mother, who is terrified that I am sending her Jewish grandson to college amidst what she views as rampant antisemitism and threats of violence towards Jewish students.

[A_B]

That’s not the accounts I am hearing/reading. There are bad actors on both sides but a lot of what I see is actually students on both sides advocating for peace.

Honestly I’d say don’t listen to anyone older than you on this issue. The kids have damn near always been right.

[Johnnie]

I just find it so ridiculous that these police forces can crawl out from the darkness to intimidate peaceful protestors (no matter their message), yet when the Capitol gets attacked, nothing.

That plus the organization and money to fund January 6th lets you know it was an inside job.

[HaulCitgo]

Puts the colleges in a bad spot but this is what should be happening and yes the college kids definitely do the listening and discussing thing better than the adults. Legit points on both sides so the only way this ever gets resolved is some sort of back and forth. Probably uncomfortable for jewish students but it probably should be as its pretty uncomfortable in gaza. Conversely, the jewish students need to be left alone to learn just as the israelis need to be left alone to live. Progress id say. At least a few thousand miles away but it helps. Maybe if the bankers and lawyers followed suit... hmm.

[The Sybian]

That’s not the accounts I am hearing/reading. There are bad actors on both sides but a lot of what I see is actually students on both sides advocating for peace.

Honestly I’d say don’t listen to anyone older than you on this issue. The kids have damn near always been right.

Yeah, I ignored my mother's concerns about the rise of antisemitism, especially on campuses, for years. I kept telling her it's media sensationalizing, but it clearly is getting worse. My son is considering Binghamton University, which has around 25-30% Jewish student body. We were put in touch with a student who is a family friends of my wife's friend. Her social media is filled with posts and videos about how she doesn't feel safe on campus a Jewish student. Again, I think she came across as an overly dramatic kid looking for attention, but there are lots of others who agree. She was uncontrollably crying telling about a student protester comparing the Israeli government to Hitler and how she took that as a direct physical threat to herself. She wasn't there, but posted a video someone else took. Yes, bad choice of words, but it was one idiot kid caught up in the moment and screamed something stupid.

I have no idea what my point is, other than I really don't know what to make about all of this. I fully support students protesting, but not when it's a message of hate. They can speak their hate, but at what point does that cross the line and injure others?

[Giff]

There’s going to be a Kent State/Jackson State tragedy again soon, and the shitbags is going to somehow blame wokeism for it.

They definitely won't be upset about it.

All these fuckers would have lost their shit at tea being thrown in a harbor, no doubt.

I've been somewhat ignoring these protests because the Israel/Palestine conflict has been raging forever, and there is no right side on this. It sucks all around. I should say both governments (if you can call Hamas a government) make horrible decisions and the people on both sides have endured unthinkable suffering. It just depresses me because I don't see a way out. (I thought Jared Kushner fixed the Middle East?)

Anyways, yes, it's horrible seeing college students roughed up by police and arrested for protesting war crimes. But how do you all feel about the protests at the Ivy schools that seem to be undeterred despite antisemitic overtones and rallying in support of Hamas, not the Palestinian people? I'm getting calls from my mother, who is terrified that I am sending her Jewish grandson to college amidst what she views as rampant antisemitism and threats of violence towards Jewish students.

I think it's bullshit and threats of violence should be handled with accordingly. I don't think the cameraman for the Fox affiliate in Austin was doing that though.

[The Sybian]

There’s going to be a Kent State/Jackson State tragedy again soon, and the shitbags is going to somehow blame wokeism for it.

They definitely won't be upset about it.

All these fuckers would have lost their shit at tea being thrown in a harbor, no doubt.

I've been somewhat ignoring these protests because the Israel/Palestine conflict has been raging forever, and there is no right side on this. It sucks all around. I should say both governments (if you can call Hamas a government) make horrible decisions and the people on both sides have endured unthinkable suffering. It just depresses me because I don't see a way out. (I thought Jared Kushner fixed the Middle East?)

Anyways, yes, it's horrible seeing college students roughed up by police and arrested for protesting war crimes. But how do you all feel about the protests at the Ivy schools that seem to be undeterred despite antisemitic overtones and rallying in support of Hamas, not the Palestinian people? I'm getting calls from my mother, who is terrified that I am sending her Jewish grandson to college amidst what she views as rampant antisemitism and threats of violence towards Jewish students.

I think it's bullshit and threats of violence should be handled with accordingly. I don't think the cameraman for the Fox affiliate in Austin was doing that though.

Honestly, I didn't hear about the Austin incident prior to your post and had to Google to see what happened. I only watched a 30 second video of the police in riot gear setting up shop and a bunch of headlines. I'm not going to comment on anything with my lack of knowledge, just asking questions.

[mister d]

I'm sure there are some anti-semetic people at the rallies (and anywhere else people gather), but these protests are against the Israeli gov't, not jewish people. Otherwise, there are a whole lot of anti-semetic jewish people both there and living around me and in Isarel, etc, etc. Framing it as anti-semetic is the last resort of a message that can only be delivered disingenuously.

[The Sybian]

I'm sure there are some anti-semetic people at the rallies (and anywhere else people gather), but these protests are against the Israeli gov't, not jewish people. Otherwise, there are a whole lot of anti-semetic jewish people both there and living around me and in Isarel, etc, etc. Framing it as anti-semetic is the last resort of a message that can only be delivered disingenuously.

My mother points out specific chants and signs with antisemitic messages. I don't think she believes the majority of protesters are antisemitic, but being born at the end of WW2, she has some strong fears.

[travzilla]

I'm sure there are some anti-semetic people at the rallies (and anywhere else people gather), but these protests are against the Israeli gov't, not jewish people. Otherwise, there are a whole lot of anti-semetic jewish people both there and living around me and in Isarel, etc, etc. Framing it as anti-semetic is the last resort of a message that can only be delivered disingenuously.

This seems to be so obviously the right take that it almost makes me nervous that I have too much of a blind spot here or something. I think back to right-wing rallies like the Ottawa freedom convoy, or basically any Trump rally, and the criticism of that is "If Nazis are part of your rally, guess what - you're a nazi". So I'm trying to keep an open mind that its possible these protests are more anti-semetic than I thought. That said, unless I've really got myself in an echo chamber, it really seems like the older generation just can't wrap their heads around the fact that people don't like genocide, against anyone.

[mister d]

My mother points out specific chants and signs with antisemitic messages. I don't think she believes the majority of protesters are antisemitic, but being born at the end of WW2, she has some strong fears.

I get that I can't get that, if that makes sense.

Out of curiosity, where does she stand on what's happening in Gaza? And does she think the "anti-semetic protests" would be happening if it weren't? Like is it "I'm against what Israel is doing but my bigger personal fear is what could happen to my family here because of that"? Because essentially that's how I assume I'd feel if the US were doing their standard awful shit and I had a kid abroad.

[Steve of phpBB]

But how do you all feel about the protests at the Ivy schools that seem to be undeterred despite antisemitic overtones and rallying in support of Hamas, not the Palestinian people?

Those are despicable. The First Amendment still protects them, but anyone who says "go back to Poland" to people they perceive to be Jewish can fuck right the hell off.

But I've also been reading some stuff suggesting that those types of protests are mostly a sideshow, often involving non-students and taking place off campus but nearby.

There is so much fog of war over this. I don't think we really have any idea what is happening without actually being there.

Syb, you got some free time to head down there and let us know what is really going on?

[Johnnie]

I'm sure there are some anti-semetic people at the rallies (and anywhere else people gather), but these protests are against the Israeli gov't, not jewish people. Otherwise, there are a whole lot of anti-semetic jewish people both there and living around me and in Isarel, etc, etc. Framing it as anti-semetic is the last resort of a message that can only be delivered disingenuously.

This seems to be so obviously the right take that it almost makes me nervous that I have too much of a blind spot here or something. I think back to right-wing rallies like the Ottawa freedom convoy, or basically any Trump rally, and the criticism of that is "If Nazis are part of your rally, guess what - you're a nazi". So I'm trying to keep an open mind that its possible these protests are more anti-semetic than I thought. That said, unless I've really got myself in an echo chamber, it really seems like the older generation just can't wrap their heads around the fact that people don't like genocide, against anyone.

This is where I'm at too.

But then I remember that the warmongers and chickenhawks on the right who declare America a Christian nation basically call you an anti-American godless heathen if you don't go along with their bullshit.

Nah, son. We just don't want your war profiteering to line the pockets of the people who pay for your opinion. Don't conflate the two.

Same shit, different Abrahamic religion.

(And of course the media fails at its job to parse the nuance and call bullshit bullshit. They get a cut of the money.)

[Steve of phpBB]

I'm sure there are some anti-semetic people at the rallies (and anywhere else people gather), but these protests are against the Israeli gov't, not jewish people. Otherwise, there are a whole lot of anti-semetic jewish people both there and living around me and in Isarel, etc, etc. Framing it as anti-semetic is the last resort of a message that can only be delivered disingenuously.

This seems to be so obviously the right take that it almost makes me nervous that I have too much of a blind spot here or something. I think back to right-wing rallies like the Ottawa freedom convoy, or basically any Trump rally, and the criticism of that is "If Nazis are part of your rally, guess what - you're a nazi". So I'm trying to keep an open mind that its possible these protests are more anti-semetic than I thought. That said, unless I've really got myself in an echo chamber, it really seems like the older generation just can't wrap their heads around the fact that people don't like genocide, against anyone.

This is where I'm at too.

But then I remember that the warmongers and chickenhawks on the right who declare America a Christian nation basically call you an anti-American godless heathen if you don't go along with their bullshit.

Nah, son. We just don't want your war profiteering to line the pockets of the people who pay for your opinion. Don't conflate the two.

Same shit, different Abrahamic religion.

(And of course the media fails at its job to parse the nuance and call bullshit bullshit. They get a cut of the money.)

The clips I've seen on my feed are not limited to criticism of the Israel government. As I mentioned above, "Go Back to Poland!"

So there is definitely some anti-semitic stuff happening at the same time as, and in the vicinity of, the student protests. The question is whether that stuff is actually part of the protest.

(And of course, regardless of whether the anti-semitic yells are part of the core protests or from splinter groups and hangers-on, it's still speech protected by the First Amendment and there is no justification for sending in the cops.)

[The Sybian]

My mother points out specific chants and signs with antisemitic messages. I don't think she believes the majority of protesters are antisemitic, but being born at the end of WW2, she has some strong fears.

I get that I can't get that, if that makes sense.

Out of curiosity, where does she stand on what's happening in Gaza? And does she think the "anti-semetic protests" would be happening if it weren't? Like is it "I'm against what Israel is doing but my bigger personal fear is what could happen to my family here because of that"? Because essentially that's how I assume I'd feel if the US were doing their standard awful shit and I had a kid abroad.

She is 100% against Israel's treatment of Palestinians (but quick to note that all of the Arab nations refuse to help the Palestinians or offer to bring them in as refugees). She agrees with the majority of the protesters, but she is more concerned with the antisemitic sentiments and fears for the safety of Jewish students. And we are both angry about the kids who are "Pro-Hamas," because they don't have a fucking clue how horrific Hamas is. She especially went off on a protestor with a sign for an LGBTQ group supporting Hamas. Fucking clueless. I tend to blow off the antisemitic stuff as kids being kids or the media amplifying it.

We actually talked about how Israel's actions create terrorists, because the Palestinians are completely disempowered and have no other way of standing up for themselves. I don't condone Hamas' attacks or methods of hiding behind hospitals and civilian targets, but I get it. It's disgusting, but they feel it's their only option.

[Johnnie]

The clips I've seen on my feed are not limited to criticism of the Israel government. As I mentioned above, "Go Back to Poland!"

So there is definitely some anti-semitic stuff happening at the same time as, and in the vicinity of, the student protests. The question is whether that stuff is actually part of the protest.

(And of course, regardless of whether the anti-semitic yells are part of the core protests or from splinter groups and hangers-on, it's still speech protected by the First Amendment and there is no justification for sending in the cops.)

Sure. But you can't lump it all together. The anarchists love a crowd.

Like the assholes in Minnesota post George Floyd's murder breaking windows trying to start the riot so that peaceful protestors could be blamed. (I think one was even a cop.)

[HaulCitgo]

Is it surprising that a percentage of a pro Palestinian movement would be anti Semitic? Pretty normal if wrong reaction to oppression. More an issue of what percentage and how much influence and whether a core belief of the movement or media propaganda in a war. I'm with Steve. Syb pretty empty these days and a fair arbiter so you've got an assignment. Kid is off to school so you're gonna want to know if they want to chop him up.

[Steve of phpBB]

Oops.

https://bsky.app/profile/hilzoy.bsky.so ... 2fo26m2c2f