2013 Boston Marathon

[A_B]

Why are there so many horrible leg wounds? Is that common? Was the bomb in a garbage can on its side?

Well, if it were a sturdy metal one it probably acts as a grenade and the explosion goes outwards, not towards the opening. Too much force in a nanosecond for it to all funnel the path of least resistance. And the people were probably so close, unfortunately their bodies took the brunt of the impact at the point nearest the explosion: the legs.

[The Sybian]

Why are there so many horrible leg wounds? Is that common? Was the bomb in a garbage can on its side?

I'm thinking there must have been some sort of shrapnel rigged to the bombs. The blasts themselves don't look big enough to tear apart that many people.

[Jerloma]

Why are there so many horrible leg wounds? Is that common? Was the bomb in a garbage can on its side?

I'm thinking there must have been some sort of shrapnel rigged to the bombs. The blasts themselves don't look big enough to tear apart that many people.

They were full of nails.

[Steve of phpBB]

I guess I would assume, in my ignorance, that the shrapnel from the explosion would go out in all directions from the point of the blast, so that as much shrapnel would go vertically as horizontally.

[Gunpowder]

Why are there so many horrible leg wounds? Is that common? Was the bomb in a garbage can on its side?

I'm thinking there must have been some sort of shrapnel rigged to the bombs. The blasts themselves don't look big enough to tear apart that many people.

They were full of nails.

I heard ball bearings on the radio.

[Steve of phpBB]

It's all ball bearings these days.

(Sorry.)

[Jerloma]

It's all ball bearings these days.

(Sorry.)

I wanted it so bad.

[Steve of phpBB]

Some dude on Twitter, who claims to have a background in explosives from the military, says that the use of pressure cookers made the shrapnel go either straight up or straight out, so there were more leg wounds, but fewer fatalities.

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[Rush2112]

A good friend of mine (and former roommate) lives down the street from the boy that was killed. Evidently the boys house is swarming with media and she had to park 3 blocks away. As she's trying to get home she was approached by a large group of "media" that asked how the blast was associated with Newtown.

[Jerloma]

I wouldn't even know what that means.

[Johnnie]

The Westboro Baptist Church is going to protest at the funerals of the dead.

Now, I'm not saying that it would be right for angry people of Boston to beat the everliving shit out of them for doing so, but I kinda don't mind if it happens. Kinda like I don't mind if they all died in a car crash. Or just had everything bad ever happen to them at once.

[garyclark]

FBI agent-in-charge (an unglamorous if effective title) says they have over 2,000 tips but the investigation is in "its infancy". And pleaded for the public to think hard about whether or not they heard anyone say bad things about the marathon or the date April 15th.

I hope I'm wrong, but that makes it seem like that they have no clue who did this yet, or what the motive was.

[The Sybian]

FBI agent-in-charge (an unglamorous if effective title) says they have over 2,000 tips but the investigation is in "its infancy". And pleaded for the public to think hard about whether or not they heard anyone say bad things about the marathon or the date April 15th.

I hope I'm wrong, but that makes it seem like that they have no clue who did this yet, or what the motive was.

Would Special Agent in Charge do it for you on the glamour scale? That would be the head of the entire Greater Boston region, so it is a very prestigious title. But to your point, that reeks of desperation to me. Very badly. I've heard hundreds of people bitch about April 15th for decades. It's tax day. Should I give him a call? Guh. As much as I hate surveillance, I really hope they find some footage of the asshole responsible planting the bombs.

[garyclark]

As much as I hate surveillance, I really hope they find some footage of the asshole responsible planting the bombs.

I'm trying to figure out how they DON'T have this. There were so many cameras focused on that area.

My hope is that they haven't scratched the surface of video evidence, and are just sorting through it.

[Steve of phpBB]

OK, are flags all over the country at half-mast because of this? I have seen flags at half-mast at my kid's school, and I hear they are lowered at Wrigley, too.

I'm sorry, but that's bullshit. Three people died. That sucks for them and their families. But FFS, people die tragically every day.

If we are going to turn the deaths of three people into a defeat for the entire nation, why fucking bother to fight terrorists? Why not tell them that they have already won, and be done with it.

This shoudl not be treated as a win for the terrorists (or lone wolf crazy), but a loss. Only three people died. That is less than one solid car accident. (Shit, didn't a couple dozen Iraqis die in bombings yesterday?)

[The Sybian]

As much as I hate surveillance, I really hope they find some footage of the asshole responsible planting the bombs.

I'm trying to figure out how they DON'T have this. There were so many cameras focused on that area.

My hope is that they haven't scratched the surface of video evidence, and are just sorting through it.

Yeah, with all of the cell phones and stores and restaurants on Boyleston with security cameras, I'd be shocked if they don't get at least a grainy glimpse that they can't doctor up into something useful. I'd wager they are all over it right now.

[Scottie]

As much as I hate surveillance, I really hope they find some footage of the asshole responsible planting the bombs.

I'm trying to figure out how they DON'T have this. There were so many cameras focused on that area.

My hope is that they haven't scratched the surface of video evidence, and are just sorting through it.

Yeah, with all of the cell phones and stores and restaurants on Boyleston with security cameras, I'd be shocked if they don't get at least a grainy glimpse that they can't doctor up into something useful. I'd wager they are all over it right now.

One would have to believe there is some video capture. If not from civic cams, then at least from the fact that every person and their dog has a hand held phone that can take pictures, shoot video. ETA: and in an event such as a marathon, at that juncture, those cell phone cams are very active.

As I mentioned here, marathons are difficult. It's a vast space with a huge number of people around. Even the largest marathons are a sort of organized confusion.

And POTUS doesn't go on television to call it an act of terrorism unless they have some idea. Obama didn't address the nation to imply it was a lone kook. Clearly, they know something. Hopefully they know something.

[Johnnie]

OK, are flags all over the country at half-mast because of this? I have seen flags at half-mast at my kid's school, and I hear they are lowered at Wrigley, too.

I'm sorry, but that's bullshit. Three people died. That sucks for them and their families. But FFS, people die tragically every day.

If we are going to turn the deaths of three people into a defeat for the entire nation, why fucking bother to fight terrorists? Why not tell them that they have already won, and be done with it.

This shoudl not be treated as a win for the terrorists (or lone wolf crazy), but a loss. Only three people died. That is less than one solid car accident. (Shit, didn't a couple dozen Iraqis die in bombings yesterday?)

Yes. Until sunset on April 20th. And I believe it extends to US military locations everywhere as well.

I'm not sure the intent or purpose, probably the terrorist connection, but I really don't know what to make of it. I'm not biased one way or the other. The flag is lowered for a whole list of reasons. There were days I'd drive around base and think "Why's the flag lowered?" Then I'd Google the obituaries for the answer. Ultimately it's just a sign of respect.

But it does bring out the loonies going the other way "Oh, Obama, you'll lower the flag for some runners in a LIBERAL state, but not for war veteran Chris Kyle in a CONSERVATIVE state. #ImpeachObama"

[The Sybian]

And POTUS doesn't go on television to call it an act of terrorism unless they have some idea. Obama didn't address the nation to imply it was a lone kook. Clearly, they know something. Hopefully they know something.

I think you give Obama too much credit here. I have no doubt he would go on TV and call it an act of terrorism without a shred of evidence or reason to believe that it was an act of terrorism. I have no information and I don't think the President did at the time of the TV appearance either. Obviously I'm making a huge leap here, but I'm fairly confident this wasn't an act of terrorism. Possibly domestic nut job terrorism without much of a longview or point, but I doubt it was even that. Certainly less of a cohesive viewpoint than Ted Kaczynski or Eric Rudlolph.

[Scottie]

And POTUS doesn't go on television to call it an act of terrorism unless they have some idea. Obama didn't address the nation to imply it was a lone kook. Clearly, they know something. Hopefully they know something.

I think you give Obama too much credit here. I have no doubt he would go on TV and call it an act of terrorism without a shred of evidence or reason to believe that it was an act of terrorism. I have no information and I don't think the President did at the time of the TV appearance either. Obviously I'm making a huge leap here, but I'm fairly confident this wasn't an act of terrorism. Possibly domestic nut job terrorism without much of a longview or point, but I doubt it was even that. Certainly less of a cohesive viewpoint than Ted Kaczynski or Eric Rudlolph.

Solid. I believe that as well.

My first thought was that the perp is a minor league Timmy McVeigh. Some local jackass.

[garyclark]

The Yankees just played Sweet Caroline in the 3rd inning as a dedication to what happened yesterday. Decent gesture, but that fell flat on its face.

Every camera shot showed more than 50% of the seats empty. In some cases, it looked 90% empty. Almost no one was paying attention or singing. A few young guys looked like they were singing alternative lyrics and snickering. Some girls were singing the "dah, dah, dah" part. And then giggling. The nicest thing was two guys holding a flag with some semblance of attention.

Completely and totally depressing.

[The Sybian]

And POTUS doesn't go on television to call it an act of terrorism unless they have some idea. Obama didn't address the nation to imply it was a lone kook. Clearly, they know something. Hopefully they know something.

I think you give Obama too much credit here. I have no doubt he would go on TV and call it an act of terrorism without a shred of evidence or reason to believe that it was an act of terrorism. I have no information and I don't think the President did at the time of the TV appearance either. Obviously I'm making a huge leap here, but I'm fairly confident this wasn't an act of terrorism. Possibly domestic nut job terrorism without much of a longview or point, but I doubt it was even that. Certainly less of a cohesive viewpoint than Ted Kaczynski or Eric Rudlolph.

Solid. I believe that as well.

My first thought was that the perp is a minor league Timmy McVeigh. Some local jackass.

Could be. I'm just guessing even lower than that. Again, I'm just playing amateur profiler with no facts. I haven't even read much of the info that has been released (which probably gives me a more accurate picture), but this just leaves me with the impression that it was done by a disgruntled loner, angry at the world with no specific motive other than to hurt people.

After my previous response, I figured I should actually see what Obama said that you so lovingly admired in your typical lemming fashion rather than just attack in my typical knee-jerk "Obama is always wrong" manner. As I suspected, Obama was misusing the definition of terrorism, leaving out the "for political ends" part of the definition. I know it is fairly common, but setting off a bomb in public, while it will certainly cause fear, is not terrorism unless you have a political motivation. If you do it because you are a sick fuck and want to watch people die at your hand, it is NOT an act of terrorism.

Here is a quote I lifted from Obama's speech today, which I previously hadn't heard or read. It actually supports my theory that he has no info that this bombing was terrorism, just that he either doesn't understand the definition of terrorism or more likely is intentionally misusing the definition of terrorism:
"Any time bombs are used to target innocent civilians, it is an act of terror," Obama said. "What we don't yet know, however, is who carried out this attack or why, whether it was planned and executed by a terrorist organization - foreign or domestic - or was the act of a malevolent individual."

[Steve of phpBB]

As I suspected, Obama was misusing the definition of terrorism, leaving out the "for political ends" part of the definition. I know it is fairly common, but setting off a bomb in public, while it will certainly cause fear, is not terrorism unless you have a political motivation. If you do it because you are a sick fuck and want to watch people die at your hand, it is NOT an act of terrorism.

Unfortunately, the "for political ends" part has been eliminated from the definition. No one paid attention to it in Atlanta in 1996, and no one pays attention to it now.

[Scottie]

The Yankees just played Sweet Caroline in the 3rd inning as a dedication to what happened yesterday. Decent gesture, but that fell flat on its face.

I've never understood that in the first place. Given the Yankees/RedSox divide, why on earth would the Fenway faithful adopt a song from a guy that grew up in Brooklyn? Even if it is a Kennedy thing, it's still lost on me.

Nice gesture by the Yankees but, really, there is a million other more appropriate options.

[The Sybian]

As I suspected, Obama was misusing the definition of terrorism, leaving out the "for political ends" part of the definition. I know it is fairly common, but setting off a bomb in public, while it will certainly cause fear, is not terrorism unless you have a political motivation. If you do it because you are a sick fuck and want to watch people die at your hand, it is NOT an act of terrorism.

Unfortunately, the "for political ends" part has been eliminated from the definition. No one paid attention to it in Atlanta in 1996, and no one pays attention to it now.

Actually, the Atlanta Centennial Park bombing was a terrorist bombing. In the end, it was Eric Rudolph behind the bombing, as part of his anti-abortion anti-gay movement. Richard Jewell ended being remembered as the suspect by most people because of the FBI's botched handling of the investigation and how the media covered the story. By the time Rudolph was hunted down, people either forgot about Centennial Park or lost interest and Jewell's name stuck with the event.

[howard]

Related? (I doubt it, but a funny echo of the anthrax scare in 2001)

Toxic Ricin Is Detected in Letter Mailed to Senator

Here is the USPS employee who made the discovery:

[howard]

The apartment in Revere they searched yesterday was the home of the Saudi national kid who was questioned. He was injured by one of the blasts, but was fingered by another bystander as 'acting suspicious'. Cleared today.

Roommate: Cops searched home of Saudi student injured by shrapnel

Wounded student caught up in Boston Marathon bomber hunt

This look familiar?

[Steve of phpBB]

Actually, the Atlanta Centennial Park bombing was a terrorist bombing. In the end, it was Eric Rudolph behind the bombing, as part of his anti-abortion anti-gay movement. Richard Jewell ended being remembered as the suspect by most people because of the FBI's botched handling of the investigation and how the media covered the story. By the time Rudolph was hunted down, people either forgot about Centennial Park or lost interest and Jewell's name stuck with the event.

I knew that, but they didn't figure out a link to Rudolph for a couple of years. Even when they assumed Jewell was guilty, and convicted him in the press, they still called it terrorism.

That's how I recall it, anyway.

[The Sybian]

Actually, the Atlanta Centennial Park bombing was a terrorist bombing. In the end, it was Eric Rudolph behind the bombing, as part of his anti-abortion anti-gay movement. Richard Jewell ended being remembered as the suspect by most people because of the FBI's botched handling of the investigation and how the media covered the story. By the time Rudolph was hunted down, people either forgot about Centennial Park or lost interest and Jewell's name stuck with the event.

I knew that, but they didn't figure out a link to Rudolph for a couple of years. Even when they assumed Jewell was guilty, and convicted him in the press, they still called it terrorism.

That's how I recall it, anyway.

Gotcha. That is how I remember it as well. The press calling it terrorism while also defining Jewell as setting himself up to be a hero.

[howard]

I'm learning that if I am a little bit patient, soon enough someone on the internet will say what is on my mind much more clearly and eloquently than I could possibly muster. Often it is Ian Welsh (but it is usually Hedges).

Brief Comments on the Boston Bombing

_________________________

“Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
- Unknown

That’s most of the necessary commentary, as Boston has already said they’ll be doing random backpack checks (unconstitutional on the face) tomorrow.

I will notice also, that this sort of thing happens all the time in Iraq, because of America and Americans, and essentially no one in the West gives two good God-damns about that.

Finally, I will note that the response to this, as the quote indicates, will be to increase the police state. In context, your lords and masters (and they consider themselves both, and by your actions and lack of them you confirm they are right) believe that new technologies have made the police state cheaper, and thus affordable. The alternative to a police state is to take care of people: widespread affluence and liberty. But the lessons of the late 19th and early 20th century, that technology makes individuals and small groups deadly, and that in modern life you cannot remove the precursor chemicals from everyone’s hands, have been forgotten, because those who lived through that period are dead, and their children are past their years in power.

And so we walk the road again. Rather than take care of everyone, we will surveil everyone, and use every attack as an excuse to crack down further.

And the elites are wrong about the cost of the police state, this time, too, because the real cost is in societal stasis, in loss of creativity and actual productive change. Police states become stagnant, and eventually they crack, because no one believes in them.

[Johnnie]

This look familiar?

Of course it does. That's on Revere Beach -- Ocean Ave. In fact, I can see those apartments from my mom's porch. There's 4 or 5 that look like that too. 4 year old me would often look at those buildings and wonder when they'd transform into MetroPlex.

[rass]

One would have to believe there is some video capture. If not from civic cams, then at least from the fact that every person and their dog has a hand held phone that can take pictures, shoot video. ETA: and in an event such as a marathon, at that juncture, those cell phone cams are very active.

Deadspin has pictures, taken just before the explosions, from someone who was in an office building just above the first (I think?) blast.

[The Sybian]

One would have to believe there is some video capture. If not from civic cams, then at least from the fact that every person and their dog has a hand held phone that can take pictures, shoot video. ETA: and in an event such as a marathon, at that juncture, those cell phone cams are very active.

Deadspin has pictures, taken just before the explosions, from someone who was in an office building just above the first (I think?) blast.

Powerful stuff. I felt sick reading it, as it brought me back to 9/11 and something I complete forgot about. Somewhere between the second plane hitting and the first tower falling, I walked out to a park along the river in Hoboken with my roommate and brought my camera. A 35mm camera, as I didn't own a digital camera yet. As the tower collapsed, I began snapping pictures. Shortly after, ferries carried people from the Financial District over to Hoboken, and they were moved to the park we were in, and we were cleared out. They were completely covered in white dust, looking like zombies, and I felt incredibly guilty for taking pictures of the building collapsing. As the reality of what happened set in, I felt incredibly guilty about taking the pictures and didn't even tell anyone I took them. I didn't get the roll developed for about 5 years. Completely forgot about it for a while. Periodically thought about getting it developed, but then felt too ashamed to bring it to a photo developing place, despite the millions of photos and youtube videos from 9/11 everywhere. Guilt is such a weird emotion. Until reading this article, I had completely forgotten about taking the pictures, and when I think about where I was on 9/11 or tell someone, I completely erased the camera from my memory. Until just now. And the guilt of taking those pictures flooded back. Really strange.

[Johnnie]

One thing about the Obama calling it terrorism angle: if he doesn't say that immediately, then the GOP goes Benghazi-nuts over him even more if it does, in fact, turn out to be actual terrorism.

So yea. Politics as usual. At least as far as I see it.

[Shirley]

One would have to believe there is some video capture. If not from civic cams, then at least from the fact that every person and their dog has a hand held phone that can take pictures, shoot video. ETA: and in an event such as a marathon, at that juncture, those cell phone cams are very active.

Deadspin has pictures, taken just before the explosions, from someone who was in an office building just above the first (I think?) blast.

Chilling. I'm sure I'm not the only person to look at those pics and immediately look for people I recognized from the later, grisly pics (and of course, the black backpack). I didn't notice any (but I'm sure they're there).

[Steve of phpBB]

One thing about the Obama calling it terrorism angle: if he doesn't say that immediately, then the GOP goes Benghazi-nuts over him even more if it does, in fact, turn out to be actual terrorism.

So yea. Politics as usual. At least as far as I see it.

Even worse, the media have already internalized the GOP batshit-craziness, so of course every media site is fixating on whether he's going to call it terrorism.

[Sabo]

The Yankees just played Sweet Caroline in the 3rd inning as a dedication to what happened yesterday. Decent gesture, but that fell flat on its face.

I've never understood that in the first place. Given the Yankees/RedSox divide, why on earth would the Fenway faithful adopt a song from a guy that grew up in Brooklyn? Even if it is a Kennedy thing, it's still lost on me.

Nice gesture by the Yankees but, really, there is a million other more appropriate options.

I think every MLB park played Sweet Caroline yesterday. They did here in Cleveland (who are hosting the Red Sox), and I've read reports they did it in Cincy and other MLB stadia.

[Johnnie]

Thanks to Reddit, Boston has reached peak pizza

Even the Red Cross got involved. Reddit is amazing. Seriously. Random Acts of Pizza is one of the coolest things ever.

[Jerloma]

The Westboro Baptist Church is going to protest at the funerals of the dead.

Now, I'm not saying that it would be right for angry people of Boston to beat the everliving shit out of them for doing so, but I kinda don't mind if it happens.

That would be awful. It's exactly what they want. The WBC are basically people looking for a lawsuit and if/when it happens, they'd win that case easily.

[Jerloma]

Zolak: "The Bruins are the World's Team tonight. Even Buffalo is rooting for them."

J-Lo: Grrr...