Hey Admins

[testuser2]

I break up enough fights between a 7 and 3 year old at home. I don't want to have to deal with it here either. If you can't get along then don't deal with each other. You also don't need to drag the rest of us into your petty squabbles.

[Scottie]

If someone posted a hideous comment about you, as Turd did toward me, would you take any umbrage? I suspect so. As well you should.

We don't really have any rules here in The Swamp. But I do like to believe there is, or was, a sense of decency.

I think you had every right to take umbrage at Turd's comment to you. I personally thought his Condit reference was funny, and did not agree with your initial jab at him for it, but still, his response was over the top and uncalled for and unnecessarily personal.

But there is a difference between taking umbrage and threatening to kick people off the Swamp.

I appreciate the effort you went through these past few weeks to rebuild the Swamp. But you also had that thing from back then to atone for, in my view, so I basically look at it as all evened up. Regardless of how I view it, though, I think the suggestion to Delaware that you could ban him was totally improper. Yes, you did a lot of work to bring this place back up, but it is not yours.

But whatever. My main point is that no one involved in yesterday's fracas can claim to be innocent, and any one of you could have stopped the escalation simply by laying off.

Fair enough.

I don't "own" this place. Nor do I harbor any desires to own it.

Perhaps I was not clear about Delaware. The point of even mentioning him was that The Swamp is an open world. The fact that I did not touch his account was to underscore the forum's openness. What I like or do not like is irrelevant. There's an "ignore" feature that I included. I use it. It's not complicated. There is no threat to him. On the contrary, he can post whatever he wants.

This is not, not by any stretch, "Scottie's forum". No way. Nor should it be. Nor will it ever be.

Turd's post is still there, after all.

[Brontoburglar]

If someone posted a hideous comment about you, as Turd did toward me, would you take any umbrage? I suspect so. As well you should.

We don't really have any rules here in The Swamp. But I do like to believe there is, or was, a sense of decency.

I think you had every right to take umbrage at Turd's comment to you. I personally thought his Condit reference was funny, and did not agree with your initial jab at him for it, but still, his response was over the top and uncalled for and unnecessarily personal.

But there is a difference between taking umbrage and threatening to kick people off the Swamp.

I appreciate the effort you went through these past few weeks to rebuild the Swamp. But you also had that thing from back then to atone for, in my view, so I basically look at it as all evened up. Regardless of how I view it, though, I think the suggestion to Delaware that you could ban him was totally improper. Yes, you did a lot of work to bring this place back up, but it is not yours.

But whatever. My main point is that no one involved in yesterday's fracas can claim to be innocent, and any one of you could have stopped the escalation simply by laying off.

Fair enough.

I don't "own" this place. Nor do I harbor any desires to own it.

Perhaps I was not clear about Delaware. The point of even mentioning him was that The Swamp is an open world. The fact that I did not touch his account was to underscore the forum's openness. What I like or do not like is irrelevant. There's an "ignore" feature that I included. I use it. It's not complicated. There is no threat to him. On the contrary, he can post whatever he wants.

This is not, not by any stretch, "Scottie's forum". No way. Nor should it be. Nor will it ever be.

Turd's post is still there, after all.

If what you like or do not like is truly irrelevant, why did you threaten to ban Ryan without an apology? Or is that post fabricated?

[Scottie]

If what you like or do not like is truly irrelevant, why did you threaten to ban Ryan without an apology? Or is that post fabricated?

Turd has taken liberties, obviously, to make an issue out of something simple. A mere self-recognition on his behalf would prevented this entire, un-Swamp-like mess.

I can say with some degree of certainty that there is nobody in Nashua, New Hampshire, holding a gun to Turd's head forcing him to read some guy's musings on an Internet forum. Nor is there some guy in Nashua, New Hampshire, holding a gun to Turd's head forcing him to behave as he chooses to behave.

Are we done with this yet?

[Brontoburglar]

If what you like or do not like is truly irrelevant, why did you threaten to ban Ryan without an apology? Or is that post fabricated?

Turd has taken liberties, obviously, to make an issue out of something simple. A mere self-recognition on his behalf would prevented this entire, un-Swamp-like mess.

I can say with some degree of certainty that there is nobody in Nashua, New Hampshire, holding a gun to Turd's head forcing him to read some guy's musings on an Internet forum. Nor is there some guy in Nashua, New Hampshire, holding a gun to Turd's head forcing him to behave as he chooses to behave.

Are we done with this yet?

But there was a guy across the continent holding a banning to his internet head forcing him to apologize for his musings on an internet forum?

Just trying to figure out where the line is in all of this.

[Scottie]

But there was a guy across the continent holding a banning to his internet head forcing him to apologize for his musings on an internet forum?

Just trying to figure out where the line is in all of this.

You're here. I'm here. Turd is here. Anyone who wants to be here is here.

Again . . . are we done with this yet? The horse, it's dead.

[howard]

I think you had every right to take umbrage at Turd's comment to you. I personally thought his Condit reference was funny, and did not agree with your initial jab at him for it, but still, his response was over the top and uncalled for and unnecessarily personal.

But there is a difference between taking umbrage and threatening to kick people off the Swamp.

I appreciate the effort you went through these past few weeks to rebuild the Swamp. But you also had that thing from back then to atone for, in my view, so I basically look at it as all evened up. Regardless of how I view it, though, I think the suggestion to Delaware that you could ban him was totally improper. Yes, you did a lot of work to bring this place back up, but it is not yours.

But whatever. My main point is that no one involved in yesterday's fracas can claim to be innocent, and any one of you could have stopped the escalation simply by laying off.

Steve gets my vote for Dad of the Swamp.

[HDO45331]

I have been a member of some form of the Swamp for over seven years.

The enjoyment factor has steadily decreased.

[Steve of phpBB]

I think you had every right to take umbrage at Turd's comment to you. I personally thought his Condit reference was funny, and did not agree with your initial jab at him for it, but still, his response was over the top and uncalled for and unnecessarily personal.

But there is a difference between taking umbrage and threatening to kick people off the Swamp.

I appreciate the effort you went through these past few weeks to rebuild the Swamp. But you also had that thing from back then to atone for, in my view, so I basically look at it as all evened up. Regardless of how I view it, though, I think the suggestion to Delaware that you could ban him was totally improper. Yes, you did a lot of work to bring this place back up, but it is not yours.

But whatever. My main point is that no one involved in yesterday's fracas can claim to be innocent, and any one of you could have stopped the escalation simply by laying off.

Steve gets my vote for Dad of the Swamp.

Just don't make me turn this car around.

[cerrano]

if nothing else, the last 24 hours have underscored the integral role of the "ignore" feature in message board survival.

[ZMan]

Before we all start on a chorus of kumbaya, can we get to the bottom of EdRomero? Was his username deleted by some one not named EdRomero?. If so, that's bullshit. No place for that here.

[govmentchedda]

Wasn't EdRomero the one to say his Swamp goodbye on facebook? Or do I have the wrong swamp handle?

[Rush2112]

He said goodbye in both places.

Scottie, perhaps this is a good time to hand over what ever copies of keys that you still have. I think I speak for everyone in appreciating in bringing this board back up, but I think it would make people more comfortable if you were just one of us rather than having access to behind the scenes information.

[Scottie]

He said goodbye in both places.

Scottie, perhaps this is a good time to hand over what ever copies of keys that you still have. I think I speak for everyone in appreciating in bringing this board back up, but I think it would make people more comfortable if you were just one of us rather than having access to behind the scenes information.

Romero specifically asked to be removed. Period.

You don't speak for everybody. You speak only for yourself. Hand over the keys? Fucking hell, I've been trying to do that for months now.

Hand it over to who? You? That didn't exactly work out too well last time, did it?

Here's an idea. Stop making me the bad guy. The one guy, who disgracefully acted out, seems to be getting a free pass. Y'know, that guy that whined and then ran away?

Let it go. Move on.

[Rush2112]

No one is giving anyone a free pass, and I am not making you the bad guy. Things were typed/sent that shouldn't have been that's what happened.

As for the upgrade that's nothing that I did that's just shitty software.
You talk about time invested. I spent weeks consolidating information and tracking down things that were spread about 15 different people.

If you don't want to give it to me, which if you look back was the idea when you volunteered to install the phpbb board, (and had mentioned in a PM once you got coding figured out) than give it to one of the green guys.

[Scottie]

No one is giving anyone a free pass, and I am not making you the bad guy. Things were typed/sent that shouldn't have been that's what happened.

As for the upgrade that's nothing that I did that's just shitty software.
You talk about time invested. I spent weeks consolidating information and tracking down things that were spread about 15 different people.

If you don't want to give it to me, which if you look back was the idea when you volunteered to install the phpbb board, (and had mentioned in a PM once you got coding figured out) than give it to one of the green guys.

You didn't do anything.

You failed to back-up the databases, you didn't do any homework, you failed to read the feedback of others that had a terrible experience with vBulletin, you didn't do the upgrade YOURSELF for fucks sakes, you handed that off to the "support" tards on the server side WITHOUT consulting people that actually know what the fuck is going on.

YOUR incompetence destroyed the forum.

I've spent the last couple of months cleaning up YOUR disaster.

Just shut the fuck up.

[govmentchedda]

I thought you wanted to hand the keys over, Scottie?

[Steve of phpBB]

No one is giving anyone a free pass, and I am not making you the bad guy. Things were typed/sent that shouldn't have been that's what happened.

As for the upgrade that's nothing that I did that's just shitty software.
You talk about time invested. I spent weeks consolidating information and tracking down things that were spread about 15 different people.

If you don't want to give it to me, which if you look back was the idea when you volunteered to install the phpbb board, (and had mentioned in a PM once you got coding figured out) than give it to one of the green guys.

You didn't do anything.

You failed to back-up the databases, you didn't do any homework, you failed to read the feedback of others that had a terrible experience with vBulletin, you didn't do the upgrade YOURSELF for fucks sakes, you handed that off to the "support" tards on the server side WITHOUT consulting people that actually know what the fuck is going on.

YOUR incompetence destroyed the forum.

I've spent the last couple of months cleaning up YOUR disaster.

Just shut the fuck up.

Shit, Scottie, enough is enough. There is no need for that.

[Scottie]

I thought you wanted to hand the keys over, Scottie?

Is this your first day?

[cerrano]

i thought rush's request was pretty reasonable. why the angry response?

i have a fear that as a result of the last few days, the swamp is not long for this world. which saddens me. blame rass for my presence, but ever since i got here, i've found this place to be the most interesting corner of the internet from an aggregate perspective. getting to meet some of you and share a beer, watch a game, and get medical advice is only part of the overall wonder of the swamp. i've learned so much from so many people here, laughed my ass off, and shed a tear or two due to the rich life experiences that everybody brought to this forum, and shared so willingly. and while 90% of my posts never got a reply, nobody ever made me feel unworthy of participation. i love this place. all good things come to an end. and if i'm right, i'll miss it terribly.

p.s. i know this comes off as a bit melodramatic, but considering the competition, it could be viewed as downright cold.

[Rush2112]

I consulted everyone along the way. The consensus was to have the company do the upgrade and to the latest release, the tech did backup the databases. I did nothing that no one didn't know about.

There is no reason to jump down my throat. I did nothing than suggest that some people feel uncomfortable with you have easy access to the backpages of the Swamp.

[Scottie]

i thought rush's request was pretty reasonable. why the angry response?

I don't want to Admin this place. Seems like nobody does. And I've spent countless hours fixing Rush's fuck up. Nobody else did. I did. You, for example, didn't step up.

For weeks, myself and others who have previously run the joint mapped out a plan. That plan was for me to rebuild everything and then just become a regular user. And that is exactly what is happening. Precisely. Exactly what is happening. Four Moderators have been installed. Howard and I removed ourselves as Mods. The game plan is to eventually remove ourselves from any Admin positions whatsoever. I thought I had made that clear. Many times.

Yeah, I got pissed off at a coward. I should have just dismissed him as a keyboard courage clown. If it is a question of integrity, note that I'm here, now, having to explain his cowardice while he magically disappeared. What's expected of me? An apology for his behavior?

i have a fear that as a result of the last few days, the swamp is not long for this world.

Nah, The Swamp is not going anywhere. Why even think so? It's solid, now. No need to make a sweeping disparagement.

And there is certainly no need to be impatient.

I'm still here, you're still here.

being drawn along by it

[Scottie]

I consulted everyone along the way. The consensus was to have the company do the upgrade and to the latest release, the tech did backup the databases. I did nothing that no one didn't know about.

There is no reason to jump down my throat. I did nothing than suggest that some people feel uncomfortable with you have easy access to the backpages of the Swamp.

Who did you consult, exactly? Who is "everyone"?

Wasn't me, clearly. I would have stopped you. I would have prevented you from fucking up as badly as you did.

What "consensus" are you talking about? Because everyone I talk to, which is pretty much everyone involved in the Swamp's existence, was never "consulted" by you about anything.

[Rush2112]

Well you a failing to remember the stickied post in the Swamp dealing with the upgrade as well as countless emails between myself and those that are responsible for funding this joint.

I repeatedly stated exactly what was going on and when things were going to happen.

I didn't do anything to "fuck this place up" the problems were with the software. You keep mentioning that people are placing some sort of blame on you. Isn't that exactly what you are doing to me?

I never claimed to be some spectacular code person. I was just someone who stepped up and did my best to help this place out. Is it my fault that VB5 was a piece of shit? No. Did I link to all the changes that were going to happen and ask for people's opinions? Yup.

You were part of that discussion if you felt your help was needed you could have mentioned it in that thread, PM'd me, or emailed me. Instead you are slamming on my for volunteering and doing exactly what was laid out in multiple places for everyone to see.

[Scottie]

If someone came by, unprompted, and said "was there anything intelligent in this post? no", I certainly may insult that person. It's condescending and basically is the definition of trolling.

A definition of "trolling" would, more accurately, be described as posting a "Hey Admins!" childish thread and then running away. Hmmm?

[Scottie]

You were part of that discussion if you felt your help was needed you could have mentioned it in that thread, PM'd me, or emailed me. Instead you are slamming on my for volunteering and doing exactly what was laid out in multiple places for everyone to see.

Nonsense. When Howard decided to give up Admin, I was the first to speak up. Initially I did not want you to have anything to do with Admin because, as you have terribly proven, you don't have the slightest idea what you are doing.

You did not, certainly, make it obvious in multiple places that you would fail to back-up the databases, which is common knowledge to even a rookie, nor did you make it "obvious" that you were going ahead blindly into an area which is far over your head. The intelligent move would have been to admit that you are clueless and seek advice from people that actually know what to do. You opted not to do so. Arrogance? Stupidity? Call it what you will. Fact is, you did not "consult" anyone that could have, would have, helped you. As a result, well, go look at the result.

I'm still shaking my head over the fact that you didn't do any back-ups, that you handed over control of the forum to a server-side call center, and that you still act like you haven't done anything wrong.

Making data back-ups is Internet 101. How you managed to fuck up something so fundamentally obvious is beyond discouraging.

[Rush2112]

The thing you keep forgetting is that the databases were backed up. Not by me correct. but still backed up. As I stated before if you had such issues with me doing anything you have a multitude of ways of contacting off board.

"Hey Rush, how's the upgrade looking, etc." but nothing from you in that regard.

If you had issue with someone at VB doing the upgrade you could have voiced your opinion at that instance as well. Again, nothing from you.

I managed databases that contained much more data than the Swamp for years. I did backups daily. When we did software upgrades those were done by the vendor and databases were backed up by the vendors.

Am I more familiar with library databases yes, but Blundercrush and I were the only ones to volunteer. You jumped down his throat then and now, I make a suggestion that you remove yourself from the back end functions of this board you spew vitriol and obscenities at me.

[Scottie]

"Hey Rush, how's the upgrade looking, etc." but nothing from you in that regard.

So . . . I was supposed to hold your hand? You took it on yourself. Don't bitch at me because I had no idea what you were doing with the place.

If you had issue with someone at VB doing the upgrade you could have voiced your opinion at that instance as well. Again, nothing from you.

Sigh. Nobody knew what you were up to, Rush. You did not reveal that the so-called "upgrade" was being done outside of our own hands until after the fact when you were looking for someone else to blame. You sloughed it off. The result of your handy-work is obvious. I would have absolutely stopped you if I had the slightest inkling of what you were going to do. Don't forget, I offered to take over after Howard and was shouted down by many, including you. How's that worked out?

Steve touched on it. Those crazy Berkeley guys. And I told the same thing to Howard a few weeks ago. Rebuilding this place? That's making amends. That's atonement for my past indiscretion. That's giving back. And it works now. Swimmingly. As I mentioned earlier, the game plan is to remove myself. Read that part? It's still the game plan. That has not changed. I said from the beginning, and a million times since, that I'd build a forum and then hand it off. Surely you didn't miss that?

You didn't answer my question. Who, exactly, did you "consult"? I'd really like to know, given that the people I speak with in person on a regular basis were never "consulted" by you.

[Johnnie]

Scottie, not for nothing, but I distinctly remember you singing Rush's praises over dealing with the software malfunction of the vBulletin sofware.

You constantly were stating that it wasn't Rush's shortcomings, but that vBulletin's upgrading was so fucked that it would take an expert to even begin to deal with.

And it wasn't once or twice either. It was numerous times over the course of a thread regarding the bullshit the new board was putting us through.

So what's this change for all of a sudden? Rush doesn't deserve to get chatised for trying to help. Hell, he even stated the warning prior to that he was no expert.

You said you expect people on the board to call you out regarding disagreements. It would be wrong of me not to speak up about this.

[Rush2112]

Again I posted my plans, and those are not from my brain but through discussions off board with people , in the thread on the old board. As for "giving blame" I have never done any such thing. I apologized for the shittiness of the upgrade, and had communications with VB about a rollback or conversion to an interim version before the decision was made to transfer to phpBB.

Off board there is a long string of emails concerning what our plan of action was. The entire plan was discussed through out the operation. This included Howard, JPops, Oiler, and others. I'm sorry that you weren't part of this, if you felt as if you should have been, but everything that went on was discussed and decided upon by many people. All of these decisions were prominently posted in the upgrade sticky in the VB4 Swamp. ANYONE was free to raise any concern that they had. I'll remind you that you were all in favour of Howard giving me the administrative rights, if you had such misgivings why the support? Or why no offer of your indirect services then?

I am not the one bitching at you, you went off on me because I happened to make a suggestion that's supposedly in the works anyway.

[brian]

Look, someone else can undo this, so it's not permanent, but at this point I think the best thing is to put an end to this thread. There are things that need to be worked out obviously and I think everyone wants to do that, but it's counter-productive to air dirty laundry in public.

I want to be clear that I sent a message to ZMan and Rerun saying that I think this is for the best, but this decision at this point is mine alone. One or either of them can undo it in the morning if they want to (Hell, Scottie can undo it if he wants to as well and if he feels to need to continue the thread then I guess he will.) If the rest of the Swamp doesn't agree, then it can be undone first thing in the morning.

But again, at this point I think this is the best move. Nothing is being accomplished.

[Scottie]

Look, someone else can undo this, so it's not permanent, but at this point I think the best thing is to put an end to this thread. There are things that need to be worked out obviously and I think everyone wants to do that, but it's counter-productive to air dirty laundry in public.

I want to be clear that I sent a message to ZMan and Rerun saying that I think this is for the best, but this decision at this point is mine alone. One or either of them can undo it in the morning if they want to (Hell, Scottie can undo it if he wants to as well and if he feels to need to continue the thread then I guess he will.) If the rest of the Swamp doesn't agree, then it can be undone first thing in the morning.

But again, at this point I think this is the best move. Nothing is being accomplished.

This is the correct answer and is pretty much the exact words I was about to post.

Yes, let's move on. Please.