150 Years Ago Today...

[Johnny Carwash]

Suck it, rednecks.

[Sabo]

Mrs. Sabo and I visited Appomattox Court House a couple of years ago and got to stand in that room where that painting took place. The real room is much smaller than the painting indicates.

[GoodKarma]

The War of Northern Aggression...never forget!

[wlu_lax6]

Sure but on Tuesday this one gets broken out


The free WaPo paper that they have at the Metro was highlighting all of the stuff going on for Lincoln over the next few days. Add that to the Cherry Blossom madness and DC is just going to be great for getting around.

[A_B]

Sure but on Tuesday this one gets broken out


The free WaPo paper that they have at the Metro was highlighting all of the stuff going on for Lincoln over the next few days. Add that to the Cherry Blossom madness and DC is just going to be great for getting around.

My daughter's fifth grade class comes out there next Thursday.

[wlu_lax6]

Sure but on Tuesday this one gets broken out


The free WaPo paper that they have at the Metro was highlighting all of the stuff going on for Lincoln over the next few days. Add that to the Cherry Blossom madness and DC is just going to be great for getting around.

My daughter's fifth grade class comes out there next Thursday.

Yup the spring break trips are annoying. I usually go for a run around the Lincoln, Jefferson and back to the office. Not during Cherry Blossom and Spring break trip season.

[Rush2112]

Suck it, rednecks.

Does this give me permission to rip the gigantic stars and bars off the pickup down the street?

(we're not even in Southern Colorado.)

[bfj]

The War of Northern Aggression...never forget!

OMG, it was 150 years ago. Let go of it already.

[GoodKarma]

The War of Northern Aggression...never forget!

OMG, it was 150 years ago. Let go of it already.

Just to be clear, I'm from Ohio and could not care less. I was mocking those in the South that think so.

[DC47]

The hallowed blood of General A.P. Hill runs through my family's veins. Some probably wore a psychic black armband today.l

[howard]

One of the awesome things about our country is that Robert E. Lee is considered the greatest military strategist and leader in our history (except maybe Washington.) Most other places hang rebel leaders; we celebrate them in the spirit of "…(w)ith malice towards none, with charity towards all." Grant set that tone 150 years ago today. And Lincoln, after speaking a few words to the spontaneous celebration that formed outside of the White House, asked the Navy Band to play Dixie. "I always thought it was a fine tune, the President was said to comment.

Allegedly, with Lee's dying breath, he ordered Gen. Hill to bring his division forward. Probably to flank St. Peter, and gain entry into Paradise.

[Rex]

My favorite read on the topic, and it's really short to boot!

http://www.homeworkmarket.com/sites/def ... _cause.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The idea that there had never before been a conquest as sweeping, from a territorial perspective, as the Union's defeat of the treasonists, is very compelling. That's sort of been the lesson of wars from the beginning of civilization to Iraq/Afghanistan: it's a lot easier to hold on to land than to conquer it. Then why did the confederates fail to hold on to theirs, when all they had to fend off was a bunch of Irish hoodlums with rifles?

[DC47]

These comments about Grant and Lincoln bring Nelson Mandela to mind. Winning the victory is not easy, as we learn over and over again today.

[howard]

My favorite read on the topic, and it's really short to boot!

http://www.homeworkmarket.com/sites/def ... _cause.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Geez, I think that article was the basis of a take-home midterm in 11th grade honors history. Mr Ross gave me a 97.

[DC47]

That's a great piece on the South's strengths. Being educated in the North, I think the story was largely that the North was like the USA in World War II. 'We' got off to a slow start, but eventually we could muster more men and material than the opponents. And we eventually promoted the right military geniuses so we got parity in that domain (Grant, Eisenhower).

But being from a southern family, I had no intrinsic bias about the North being simply Better. Certainly not better from a military point of view, as ours was and is a military family. It's long been ironic to me that many of my ancestors died for the South in the 1860s, and some still do so today in the mideast. First we fought for slavery, then for corporate interests. Perhaps the family crest should have text at the bottom that reads: "Noble, but chumps"

It has long puzzled me that Lee -- a genius at defensive warfare -- couldn't hold out longer. And holding out is all it takes in many cases, as we learn again and again in modern warfare. I've assumed that Lee was eventually done in by inadequate supplies and men. But I had no idea that at least some key supplies were sitting in warehouses, made useless by governance problems. And I certainly had no idea that there were so many potential soldiers who were not in his armies.

Perhaps Lee should have first marched on North Carolina and Georgia to secure what he needed, and only then gone to war with the North. On the way, he should have installed a puppet president instead of Davis, and started executing dissidents.

It's an interesting concept that a southern 'victory' -- or more accurately, the lack of a definitive northern victory -- might have lead to many nations in what is now the USA, not just two. I wouldn't assume that a six nation area would necessarily be a place of peace and cooperation. South America is not that. This would be an interesting premise for one of these counter-factual historic fictions. How would WWII have played out, for example? And what of the NCAA basketball championships?

[L-Jam3]

I don't think WWII ends any differently so long as the USSR was against Germany and Japan. Whatever side was with Uncle Josef was on was going to be the winning side, and I don't really think a Confederate States of America would have backed a different horse.

[DC47]

There may have been six countries where there is one now. As the article points out, the rebels were not big on allegiance to a dominant federal entity. So, for example, Virginia may have decided that it was it's own country. More likely, groups of states would combine, perhaps in loose federation with a weak central government.

And some or all may well have been more indifferent to problems in Europe, and posed less of a threat to Japanese expansion in Asia. Hence, no Pearl Harbor. Which may not have even been a part of any nation headquartered in the continental US.

[howard]

The what ifs are endless. Another direction is expansion into Mexico, the Carribean, and even Central America by whatever national entites emerged from the CSA. If Texas emerges as an independent nation, how and where it expands (westward to Los Angeles? South to Guatamala?)

The economic development of the CSA states was paltry in the decades after the war (in actual historic fact.) Part of this was ravages of war (loss of manpower and infrastructure), but the continued reliance on an agricultural base (and basically one crop) while the American Industrial Revolution continued, centered in the Northeast and the northern Midwest cities from Pittsburgh/Buffalo to Chicago. As things turned out, the South was left in the dust economically; how this plays out in an alternate history? Maybe with competition of several nation states, there is an industrialization of the South (dominated by St. Louis? New Orleans? Houston?) that fuels southward expansion and maybe even consolidation.

How about Seward never purchases Alaska. Sarah Palin can see Putin cause he is living next door. Russian empire has a significant presence in North America. They expand southward to the Russian River north of San Francisco. And at hockey games we sing The Internationale instead of O Canada.

This is fun.

[DC47]

Man, I lived next to the Russian River. So I'd be speaking Russian right now!

One obvious implication: the Giants would not have moved to Soviet San Francisco. Though perhaps they would have moved to the booming northern towns of Buffalo, Gary or Minneapolis. I like the sound of Buffalo Giants.

Another implication: No Florida, so President Al Gore.

Ooops. He would have been from a CSA country, so he's out. So too with Bush. Perhaps President Kucinich. The (northern) USA would still have invaded Iraq and Afghanistan though. Probably Canada a few times.