The Jurgen Klinsman Experience

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:14 am

Uh Oh...Gedion Zelalem called up by German U-18s. Just days after Klinsman said he was a world class talent that would be ready for the full MNT.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:36 pm

wlu_lax6 wrote:Uh Oh...Gedion Zelalem called up by German U-18s. Just days after Klinsman said he was a world class talent that would be ready for the full MNT.

What does that mean? Does he now have to choose?

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:41 pm

tennbengal wrote:
wlu_lax6 wrote:Uh Oh...Gedion Zelalem called up by German U-18s. Just days after Klinsman said he was a world class talent that would be ready for the full MNT.
What does that mean? Does he now have to choose?

No he could go to the U-18, play in the friendlies and still pick the U.S..

Post by **brian** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:44 pm

He still has to wait for the FIFA waiver to play for the US, though which is just a formality takes time because....FIFA. (It's supposed to be done in April.)

Let's just call this what it is -- a last-ditch effort by the Germans to convince him to play for Germany. It's unlikely to work, but you can't blame them for trying.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:44 pm

brian wrote:He still has to wait for the FIFA waiver to play for the US, though which is just a formality takes time because....FIFA. (It's supposed to be done in April.)

Let's just call this what it is -- a last-ditch effort by the Germans to convince him to play for Germany. It's unlikely to work, but you can't blame them for trying.

Has Zelalam accepted the U-18 camp invite? I read that he was asked, but hasn't accepted yet. Players can choose a country they are eligible to play for until they play in a meaningful game ("recognized competition") for a full national team. Youth games don't lock a player into a country, nor do friendlies. There is an exception that a meaningful game for a youth national team cap-ties a player from any countries he is not eligible to play for at the time of the cap. The upcoming German U-18 games are only friendlies, so it won't cap-tie Zelalam if he plays.

Zelalam became a citizen and announced that he intends to play for the US. By FIFA rules, he has to live in the US for 5 years before being eligible to play, but the US has submitted for an exception to the rule. Since his father became a citizen, and he moved to the US when he was 8 or 9, so it is expected that FIFA will give the exception. I just don't trust FIFA for shit. The US voted against Blatter, so who knows what he will do. I just wan to see him get the exception and cap-tied young, before he is good enough to have a chance at cracking the German full team.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:46 pm

Some of you who are friends with me on Facebook might notice something I posted this afternoon, but I'll put it here, too:

I had a big, long (probably boring) post written in my head about Klinsmann, but I'll spare everyone. Here's the bottomline: If you go back to last April's 2-2 draw against Mexico through yesterday's loss to Denmark, the US has given up a lead in the second half 7 out of 16 games. Folks, I'm not a statistician, but I'm gonna go ahead and call that a pattern/trend.

These 7 games do not include, btw, the heartbreaking Belgium loss, where we got blown up in the first OT, or the recent ass kicking suffered in Dublin, where we were tied at halftime only to get run off the field in the second.

And, fine, let's say you think it's unfair to go back to last April. Let's just talk about from post-World Cup on. We have given up leads 5 of 8 games. (Again, not counting the Ireland game, which really is pretty much indicative of this second half collapse pattern.)

I was relatively happy with our World Cup results, but when you start to look at the book of work Klinsmann is developing... This is troubling.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:18 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:Some of you who are friends with me on Facebook might notice something I posted this afternoon, but I'll put it here, too:

I had a big, long (probably boring) post written in my head about Klinsmann, but I'll spare everyone. Here's the bottomline: If you go back to last April's 2-2 draw against Mexico through yesterday's loss to Denmark, the US has given up a lead in the second half 7 out of 16 games. Folks, I'm not a statistician, but I'm gonna go ahead and call that a pattern/trend.

These 7 games do not include, btw, the heartbreaking Belgium loss, where we got blown up in the first OT, or the recent ass kicking suffered in Dublin, where we were tied at halftime only to get run off the field in the second.

And, fine, let's say you think it's unfair to go back to last April. Let's just talk about from post-World Cup on. We have given up leads 5 of 8 games. (Again, not counting the Ireland game, which really is pretty much indicative of this second half collapse pattern.)

I was relatively happy with our World Cup results, but when you start to look at the book of work Klinsmann is developing... This is troubling.

I don't disagree with you, but to play Devil's advocate here, Jurgen has been bringing in a lot of new faces and particularly young players into camps since the World Cup. The inexperience from these players shows, and the understanding between the players, particularly the defenders, is resulting in glaring mistakes. I started to write back 4, but the back 3 experiment didn't work out well, and led to some goal leakage. Last night, the US had a lot of young guys playing with little or no international experience up against Denmark's full squad assembled to play in a Euro qualifier. You see it every week in the EPL, the biggest clubs pulling out a win late in the game. As players tire, skill and talent usually show through. Denmark was clearly the more talented side and played much better as a team, and it was no surprise that they scored the winner.

Usually giving up a lot of late goals shows a lack of conditioning, and excellent conditioning has always been a huge factor in the USMNT's success. I don't think conditioning has been the issue, as much as the loss of flow to the game when all the second half substitutions start. That seems to be effecting the US more than our opponents. Maybe that is the inexperience and the unfamiliarity of the players with each other, or maybe that does come down to bad coaching and game management.

Jurgen likes to take a look at a huge pool of players, and 3 years out and before qualifiers start is the time to do it. I also feel like Jurgen is very focused on snagged all of the potential players whoa re eligible to play for Mexico and Germany. I love that, but he may be going overboard by bringing in players who are too young and not good enough at the expense of giving other guys experience.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:52 pm

In short, I agree with Syb. The first year after WC mean nothing to me, record-wise.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:56 pm

Which is why I included the game against Mexico, and you need to look at the WC games, as well. Portugal was very close to turning that WC appearance into a debacle. And we barely got out of the Ghana game alive. Brave game against Germany, but in that game and against Belgium we were completely out-classed. Don't get me wrong, I was ecstatic with our showing in Brazil. But when you start looking at his tenure as a whole, I'm just becoming a little concerned.

And, look, I get what you guys are saying and I'm by no means anti-Jurgen (as evidenced upthread) or sky is falling type guy (as evidenced in all things NLFC). But regardless of who you're throwing out there--keeping in mind, a lot of opponents are playing THE EXACT KIND OF EXPERIMENTAL lineups we are--not being able to close out games on this scale is not a good look for a manager.

Again, I'm not freaking out, I'm sending up a flare. A lot of the criticism of JK after Germany, as you guys know, was that he's not a very good tactical manager. I have no freaking clue if that was just the German media being dickheads... or if there's something to it.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:33 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:Which is why I included the game against Mexico, and you need to look at the WC games, as well. Portugal was very close to turning that WC appearance into a debacle. And we barely got out of the Ghana game alive. Brave game against Germany, but in that game and against Belgium we were completely out-classed. Don't get me wrong, I was ecstatic with our showing in Brazil. But when you start looking at his tenure as a whole, I'm just becoming a little concerned.

And, look, I get what you guys are saying and I'm by no means anti-Jurgen (as evidenced upthread) or sky is falling type guy (as evidenced in all things NLFC). But regardless of who you're throwing out there--keeping in mind, a lot of opponents are playing THE EXACT KIND OF EXPERIMENTAL lineups we are--not being able to close out games on this scale is not a good look for a manager.

Again, I'm not freaking out, I'm sending up a flare. A lot of the criticism of JK after Germany, as you guys know, was that he's not a very good tactical manager. I have no freaking clue if that was just the German media being dickheads... or if there's something to it.

I really don't know either. Like I said, I don't disagree with you, just throwing out some explanations (excuses?). I am a bit troubled, and I think regardless of who has been thrown on the field, it has looked like crap. Bradley has looked great, Jozy is scoring and looked pretty good. Like Rog Bennett says, you can't tell anything from a friendly, unless the US wins, then it means everything.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:04 pm

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:14 pm

Nope. You're not going to get me to analyze or care about a friendly unless it's at the Azteca or within 30 days of a World Cup.

Post by **brian** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:19 pm

Rex wrote:Nope. You're not going to get me to analyze or care about a friendly unless it's at the Azteca or within 30 days of a World Cup.

This. Though I'll also add I'll worry if they stink it up in the Gold Cup.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:21 pm

Rex wrote:Nope. You're not going to get me to analyze or care about a friendly unless it's at the Azteca or within 30 days of a World Cup.

:D

They played much much better today than they did against Belgium, IMO. They controlled the play for stretches of time. (Granted, I couldn't devote my full attention, but still... when I was watching, they carried the play going forward at times.)

It's still another in the negative trend. But a rather unimportant trend... Until it's not.

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:29 pm

Altidore needs to be a bit more mature....also like the band playing through the match

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 4:05 pm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/soc ... ate-goals/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not trolling, just putting it on the record for down the road reference.

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:03 am

US for their away game against Mexico in San Antonio

GOALKEEPERS: Bill Hamid (D.C. United), Nick Rimando (Real Salt Lake), William Yarbrough (Club Leon)

DEFENDERS: Ventura Alvarado (Club America), Matt Besler (Sporting Kansas City), Brad Evans (Seattle Sounders), Greg Garza (Club Tijuana), Omar Gonzalez (LA Galaxy), Michael Orozco (Puebla), Break Shea (Orlando City SC), DeAndre Yedlin (Tottenham Hotspur)

MIDFIELDERS: Kyle Beckerman (Real Salt Lake), Michael Bradley (Toronto FC), Joe Corona (Club Tijuana), Mix Diskerud (New York City FC), Miguel Ibarra (Minnesota United FC), Lee Nguyen (New England Revolution)

FORWARDS: Juan Agudelo (New England Revolution), Julian Green (Hamburg), Jordan Morris (Stanford University), Chris Wondolowski (San Jose Earthquakes), Gyasi Zardes (LA Galaxy)

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:37 am

I don't get bringing in a guy like Wondo. He is already 32, going to be 35 in the next World Cup, and was never worthy of starting. Why continue to bring him in now, when this is the prime time to give young guys a look and try to find out who is worth giving a run?

ETA: I do think you need a mix of core players like Bradley in the mix to give a veteran presence in camp, and to keep them in form for internationals.

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:33 pm

The Sybian wrote:I don't get bringing in a guy like Wondo. He is already 32, going to be 35 in the next World Cup, and was never worthy of starting. Why continue to bring him in now, when this is the prime time to give young guys a look and try to find out who is worth giving a run?

ETA: I do think you need a mix of core players like Bradley in the mix to give a veteran presence in camp, and to keep them in form for internationals.

so what other forward would you bring? I can't think of anyone I would bring it who could have a shot at getting on the field (Charlie D, Nyguen). So if that is the case you bring a vet in who knows the program.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:51 am

I forgot about Jozy's red card. Boo.

I see what you're saying Syb. And I still have animosity that (IMO) his roster spot should've been filled by Landon. That said, I feel for the guy after he missed a pretty decent chance to tie Belgium... His reaction to that was very classy.

Ok, with all that said, Zardes, Green, Morris and Agudelo are about as fresh-faced a striker unit we've ever brought into a MEX tilt.

And as I've been harping on lately, JK needs to focus, at least to some extent (and particularly in this game) on getting some results.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:35 am

wlu_lax6 wrote:
The Sybian wrote:I don't get bringing in a guy like Wondo. He is already 32, going to be 35 in the next World Cup, and was never worthy of starting. Why continue to bring him in now, when this is the prime time to give young guys a look and try to find out who is worth giving a run?

ETA: I do think you need a mix of core players like Bradley in the mix to give a veteran presence in camp, and to keep them in form for internationals.
so what other forward would you bring? I can't think of anyone I would bring it who could have a shot at getting on the field (Charlie D, Nyguen). So if that is the case you bring a vet in who knows the program.

I don't know, but he would have to come from MLS, as there is slim pickings in Europe right now. I would hope there is a better option in MLS, but if not, maybe we do have to Dare to Wondo. I do feel for the guy. That miss against Belgium was of Buckner proportion. Nonlinear, wouldn't that have put the US ahead very late in regulation?

Zardes has looked absolutely horrible so far. I should give the guy a chance, he must have shown something to get called in, but he has been fuckawful. Any chance of Davies ever making it back into the fold? What a fucking shame that whole story was.

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:58 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:I forgot about Jozy's red card. Boo.

I see what you're saying Syb. And I still have animosity that (IMO) his roster spot should've been filled by Landon. That said, I feel for the guy after he missed a pretty decent chance to tie Belgium... His reaction to that was very classy.

Ok, with all that said, Zardes, Green, Morris and Agudelo are about as fresh-faced a striker unit we've ever brought into a MEX tilt.

And as I've been harping on lately, JK needs to focus, at least to some extent (and particularly in this game) on getting some results.

This game is not at all about getting results...This game is all about $$$$$.

P.D.X. · Post by **P.D.X.** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:32 pm

Why can't it be both?

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:42 pm

P.D.X. wrote:Why can't it be both?

Location. If this was about results they would be playing this in a slightly friendlier stadium
Timing. If this was about results they would have found time during international break to play
This roster is closer to January MNT camp than Gold Cup/World Cup/etc

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:40 pm

So the Mexican National team showed up to the stadium wearing blue noses in support of Autism Awareness.
Shock G give it full support.

howard · Post by **howard** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:12 pm

The friendly against Mexico is your chance to do the Hump!

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 6:49 am

That field was Gross.
Bradley looked a level above everyone else. He found ways to break Mexican pressure.
Does the Hamid, Yarbourgh, Johnson battle even matter?
Not sure what Jordan Morris plan at Stanford is, but has to be driving Jurgen crazy. He has had very good runs over the last several months. Guessing he just does not see cracking the Sounders lineup.
Classy move by Bradley giving Morris the Pennant that he gets as captain
Not sure if it was real of just creative camera work, but the U.S. fans did not look overwhelmed by the Mexican fans. Seemed pretty even.

P.D.X. · Post by **P.D.X.** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:06 am

I'm surprised we even tried, seeing that this was only for money.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:03 pm

1) I didn't come back in to discuss the "result" issue due to time constraints. Viewers will now move ahead in the action...

US - MEX, esp. at the full MNT level, will always matter. Doesn't matter if it's C team v. C team. Even if it's played on a shit surface in what is clearly a money grab, it will matter until one of the teams completely shits the bed. (And at this point, the series is something like 13-5-? since 2000, and something around 17-33?-? overall... The trend is not looking good for MEX, which only means they are going to put even MORE emphasis on these games, friendly or otherwise.)

Maybe this comes down to being a fan of this team when the were routinely getting drummed by MEX, and going to Azteca had a dead man walking vibe. Coming out the other side of this rivalry is what it probably feels like for OSU and more appropriately MSU fans when playing and beating MI these days.

2) All that said, I don't think it can be emphasized enough just how awful that field was last night. That is probably the worst surface I've seen the US play on since Barbados, maybe Panama (which is unfair because it was during the rainy season.) It was an absolute disgrace and if I'm JK and the FMF I'm throwing an absolute fit. That was dangerous for everyone involved.

3) That Morris kid was a joy to watch. I agree that he seems to be wasting his time a bit Stanford. The Sounders should be looking at loaning him to someone in Europe.

4) I think Mixx and Bradley could be a very potent combination in the middle going forward.

Post by **Shirley** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:47 pm

I wish the US had had THAT Bradley during the World Cup. He was clearly the best player on the field. Granted, those weren't true WC-quality squads, but still.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 3:03 pm

But there's the rub, right? When we play WC-caliber teams, he has a lot more defensive duties AND the stuff he does going forward is thwarted at a much higher clip.

I also think a lot of the stuff said and written about Bradley during and after the WC amount to a lot of bunk, but that's a discussion for another day.

testuser2 · Post by **testuser2** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 3:58 pm

The crowd was astounding. I'm not sure how any sports fan couldn't watch the game and not feel some type of emotion. I loved it when the announcers just stopped talking during the first few minutes of the game. It sounded to me like the US/MEX fans were battling over who could cheer the loudest.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:17 am

testuser2 wrote:The crowd was astounding. I'm not sure how any sports fan couldn't watch the game and not feel some type of emotion. I loved it when the announcers just stopped talking during the first few minutes of the game. It sounded to me like the US/MEX fans were battling over who could cheer the loudest.

If/When the next home World Cup Qualifier between the US/MEX is put in Columbus, take your kids. Try to sit near or in the supporters section. Life altering.

Washington and Lee Lacrosse Number Six is right... The game on Wednesday is a dry husk of the atmosphere you'll experience at a WCQ. I've been to 2 of those and they are top 10 live sporting experiences of my lifetime.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:36 am

Nonlinear FC wrote:
testuser2 wrote:The crowd was astounding. I'm not sure how any sports fan couldn't watch the game and not feel some type of emotion. I loved it when the announcers just stopped talking during the first few minutes of the game. It sounded to me like the US/MEX fans were battling over who could cheer the loudest.

If/When the next home World Cup Qualifier between the US/MEX is put in Columbus, take your kids. Try to sit near or in the supporters section. Life altering.

Washington and Lee Lacrosse Number Six is right... The game on Wednesday is a dry husk of the atmosphere you'll experience at a WCQ. I've been to 2 of those and they are top 10 live sporting experiences of my lifetime.

It was fun when I went to see the game that qualified the us in, I guess 2010.

Post by **Sabo** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:27 pm

AB_skin_test wrote:
Nonlinear FC wrote:
testuser2 wrote:The crowd was astounding. I'm not sure how any sports fan couldn't watch the game and not feel some type of emotion. I loved it when the announcers just stopped talking during the first few minutes of the game. It sounded to me like the US/MEX fans were battling over who could cheer the loudest.

If/When the next home World Cup Qualifier between the US/MEX is put in Columbus, take your kids. Try to sit near or in the supporters section. Life altering.

Washington and Lee Lacrosse Number Six is right... The game on Wednesday is a dry husk of the atmosphere you'll experience at a WCQ. I've been to 2 of those and they are top 10 live sporting experiences of my lifetime.
It was fun when I went to see the game that qualified the us in, I guess 2010.

That was 2005 (assuming you're talking about the game you, me and Brian attended).

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:37 pm

Shirley wrote:I wish the US had had THAT Bradley during the World Cup. He was clearly the best player on the field. Granted, those weren't true WC-quality squads, but still.

I think there's something to the idea that he's freed up a lot more without Dempsey on the field because Dempsey tends to drop so deep into the midfield.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:46 am

Sabo wrote:
AB_skin_test wrote:
Nonlinear FC wrote:
testuser2 wrote:The crowd was astounding. I'm not sure how any sports fan couldn't watch the game and not feel some type of emotion. I loved it when the announcers just stopped talking during the first few minutes of the game. It sounded to me like the US/MEX fans were battling over who could cheer the loudest.

If/When the next home World Cup Qualifier between the US/MEX is put in Columbus, take your kids. Try to sit near or in the supporters section. Life altering.

Washington and Lee Lacrosse Number Six is right... The game on Wednesday is a dry husk of the atmosphere you'll experience at a WCQ. I've been to 2 of those and they are top 10 live sporting experiences of my lifetime.
It was fun when I went to see the game that qualified the us in, I guess 2010.
That was 2005 (assuming you're talking about the game you, me and Brian attended).

Holy shit. Was it that long ago?

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:43 am

I like that Morris was not given man of the match because he is not drinking age (Budweiser is the sponsor).

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:28 pm

Brontoburglar wrote:
Shirley wrote:I wish the US had had THAT Bradley during the World Cup. He was clearly the best player on the field. Granted, those weren't true WC-quality squads, but still.
I think there's something to the idea that he's freed up a lot more without Dempsey on the field because Dempsey tends to drop so deep into the midfield.

Nope.

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:58 am

Tres a Cero for the estados unidos U-23s last night v Mehico. Crooper (Southhampton) gets a shutout and Jordan Morris scores during his 21 minute appearance.