Women's World Cup

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:09 pm

This is awesome so far.

P.D.X. · Post by **P.D.X.** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:11 pm

The 4th official is hot.

howard · Post by **howard** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:41 pm

The German keeper played Alex's early try beautifully.

howard · Post by **howard** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:44 pm

And her late try. Weak side help is there, Alex.

howard · Post by **howard** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:45 pm

Oh, shit. Checked into the boards. I was just about to suggest Rodriguez for Heath at the half, definitely if Tobin got hurt there.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:16 pm

So the Germans have a player named 'Sausage'?

rass · Post by **rass** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:18 pm

sancarlos wrote:So the Germans have a player named 'Sausage'?

Ugh. She's the...

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:20 pm

Woooooooooow

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:20 pm

Well! That was fortunate!

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:22 pm

sancarlos wrote:Well! That was fortunate!

Fortunate x 2. By the book that should have been a red card. Last man back.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:30 pm

Fortunate x 3. That foul occurred outside the box.

howard · Post by **howard** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:46 pm

Ryan Friedman ‏@ryantfriedman 4m4 minutes ago

Can Carli Lloyd come out of the game or does Montreal have a PK sub ban?

0 retweets 0 favorites

Post by **brian** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:23 pm

degenerasian wrote:Fortunate x 3. That foul occurred outside the box.

Eh, US got some breaks for sure, but they were the better team and deserved the result.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:34 pm

Someone with lots of soccer knowledge explain to me why you'd sub in Wambach while protecting a one goal lead.

Johnny Carwash · Post by **Johnny Carwash** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:35 pm

howard wrote:Ryan Friedman ‏@ryantfriedman 4m4 minutes ago

Can Carli Lloyd come out of the game or does Montreal have a PK sub ban?

0 retweets 0 favorites

That's very good. Broke my twitter semi-hiatus to throw him a bone.

e: Oh, hey look, it's back on:

Jim CarreyVerified account
‏@JimCarrey
California Gov says yes to poisoning more children with mercury and aluminum in manditory vaccines. This corporate fascist must be stopped.
RETWEETS 501 FAVORITES 757

howard · Post by **howard** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:53 pm

"She was this far outside the box!"

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:30 pm

brian wrote:
degenerasian wrote:Fortunate x 3. That foul occurred outside the box.
Eh, US got some breaks for sure, but they were the better team and deserved the result.

Definitely.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:34 am

Heard about this on Mike & Mike this AM...solid read

Two USWNT players live with Jeff Van Gundy and his family

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:03 am

JVG is awesome.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:05 am

HA HA HA HA

ANyone know how to embed tweets?

rass · Post by **rass** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:11 am

I don't think we can do it here, but it looks like it should be possible add that functionality in phpbb.

The search function does work, though.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:13 am

rass wrote:I don't think we can do it here, but it looks like it should be possible add that functionality in phpbb.

The search function does work, though.

Where's the dick button?

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:16 am

And in my defense I have Sabo on block.

rass · Post by **rass** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:20 am

A_B wrote:
rass wrote:I don't think we can do it here, but it looks like it should be possible add that functionality in phpbb.

The search function does work, though.

Where's the dick button?

Replaced by Johnny Weir?

A_B wrote:And in my defense I have Sabo on block.

Was going to say, at least I saved you from the indignity of sabo pointing out your mistake.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:20 am

mister d wrote:Someone with lots of soccer knowledge explain to me why you'd sub in Wambach while protecting a one goal lead.

Outside of the fresh legs aspect, she's someone that can hold up play when the ball is played long to her. By doing that, you strive to keep possession longer. And her holdup play from the left wing is why the US got that second goal.

They had already made a defensive sub with O'Hara in for Heath, so with Wambach they forced Germany to account for two forwards (to prevent any further pushing forward).

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:52 am

So it was an offensive maneuver. Like the opposite of no-doubles defense.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:58 am

I was pretty surprised by the level of domination in the first half. It made me very nervous that we hadn't scored going into half-time... That scenario quite often results in the team getting its ass kicked making some adjustments and changing the momentum in the second half.

And it really looked like that was playing out as the second half unfolded. We got extremely lucky on the PK sequence, and then our PK, as has been noted everywhere, wasn't really a PK.

That said, I don't think any objective observer thinks the Germans got robbed. They missed a PK. You miss a PK and you are fucking with fate, and it usually doesn't work out in your favor.

I'm hoping for a rematch with Japan, for entertainment value... But if the English manage, somehow, to out-muscle and out hustle for a win... That's a great matchup for the US to finally bring home another trophy.

Bensell · Post by **Bensell** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:36 am

howard wrote:

"She was this far outside the box!"

Johnston should have gotten a red card and the foul on Morgan should have been just a free kick but the US was the better team after the first 5 or so minutes. I want to see England upset Japan tonight but I think there is almost no chance for that to happen

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:17 pm

Couple more thoughts:

1) I think that most of the time, a red card + a PK is overkill. In hockey, when you get a penalty shot you (usually) don't also have a guy sit in the box for two minutes. And a hockey penalty shot is a MUCH higher degree of difficulty. I don't have the time/inclination to check on this, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say PK's are converted at a significantly higher rate than penalty shots.

My only caveat to this is when a player does something really egregious, like grab the ball out of the air, tackle someone rugby style. But tugging on someone's shoulder should not be an automatic red. Sausage choked... if she hadn't, no one would be going on and on about the non-red card issue.

2) Ellis proved a lot of people wrong yesterday, including me. I'm not sure if her goal was to slog through the Group of Death with old school Wambach-ball and then spring these different formations... But it seems more likely that lack of production combined with the revelation that Brian could play when suspensions forced her hand sealed the deal. Still, playing what amounted to a 351/443 was a pretty bold move, seeing as how you had to sit Leroux, Wamback and Rodriguez to do it.

My biggest beef, as expressed up thread, was that the midfield was being so heavily tilted towards Rapinoe early in the tournament that the offense was too predictable and easily defended. While I still think they went to her a bit too much last night, the bulk of the chances came from playing combinations up through the middle.

If you look at the O'Hara goal, it comes off of a brilliant feed from Krieger, who is cutting off the flank into the middle, hits a wide open Lloyd - And I mean ridiculously wide open for that part of the field - who then works her magic to set up the finish. The reason Lloyd, and so many other attacking players, were so open last night is that our style completely threw them for a loop. They just weren't prepared to deal with a team flowing out of the middle like that. It was awesome to watch.

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:29 pm

The reason for a red on a denial of an obvious goal scoring opportunity is the result of wanting to see goals from run of play instead of a PK and foul being the best strategy for a defender. Even though I am not a soccer ref, I really enjoy looking at US Pro's play of the week (http://www.proreferees.com/features-coaching.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). They do a great job describing good and bad jobs by officials DOGSO is a big topic.

I think the ref had discretion of giving a yellow or red as that was not a gimmie

Also don't forget that on the O'Hara goal you have Germany being forced to play more aggressive and up-field to try and tie the game. Having to score late always opens up opportunities for the team ahead.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:33 pm

P.D.X. wrote:The 4th official is hot.

Rules

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:52 pm

mister d wrote:So it was an offensive maneuver. Like the opposite of no-doubles defense.

It also meant that they could revert even further to just booming the ball long rather than trying to play with possession. This is a lower-risk style with the ball in your end. With Wambach in, this would be more of a threat to the Germans. And if you're not going to try to play with the ball so much, her weakness at this aspect of the game would be diminished.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:05 pm

wlu_lax6 wrote:The reason for a red on a denial of an obvious goal scoring opportunity is the result of wanting to see goals from run of play instead of a PK and foul being the best strategy for a defender. Even though I am not a soccer ref, I really enjoy looking at US Pro's play of the week (http://www.proreferees.com/features-coaching.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). They do a great job describing good and bad jobs by officials DOGSO is a big topic.

I think the ref had discretion of giving a yellow or red as that was not a gimmie

When I played and coached I used to love to read referee instructional material like that. There is no other sport where understanding the reffing matters as much. So few rules, so much complexity and subjectivity.

I am admittedly dismayed by all the things that are done in modern soccer out of an extreme defensive orientation. One is reffing that allows too many bad challenges and wrestling matches. I think soccer should move a few steps towards the way basketball is called. Like, it's illegal to wrap your arms around the player in possession of the ball. So, with this admitted bias, I saw Johnson's foul as a pretty clear DOGSO. Perhaps I'm missing some interpretation of the words. It seems to me that the goal scoring opportunity clearly existed, so it was 'obvious.' Is there some implicit percentage of times a play would ordinarily result in a goal that is required to meet the threshold of a DOGSO? If so, for me it would be far lower than that for a PK. And that was a great chance for the German.

Also don't forget that on the O'Hara goal you have Germany being forced to play more aggressive and up-field to try and tie the game. Having to score late always opens up opportunities for the team ahead.

This is completely true and often missed in soccer. There is really no American equivalent. The notion that the Americans had the better of the play and thus were somehow deserving of the favorable outcome that was largely due to two obvious, massive blown calls in their favor is based on the gigantic erroneous assumption that we were watching the Germans play the way they wanted to play after they went down.

No one will ever know how the run of play would have gone if the refereeing had been better. I think the most likely outcome of a properly called game would have been the Germans winning due to playing one man up and wearing down the Americans. The second most likely outcome would have been a tie settled randomly with PKs at the end, as the Americans are so effective on defense, and might have been able to park the bus.

Post by **brian** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:16 pm

DC47 wrote:This is completely true and often missed in soccer. There is really no American equivalent. The notion that the Americans had the better of the play and thus were somehow deserving of the favorable outcome that was largely due to two obvious, massive blown calls in their favor is based on the gigantic erroneous assumption that we were watching the Germans play the way they wanted to play after they went down.

If not for the fact that the U.S. completely dominated the first half, I might agree with you.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:19 pm

They were pretty good, and better than I have come to expect. But I wouldn't say they dominated. How many goals did the Americans score that weren't gifted to them prior to the Germans having to change their style?

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:56 pm

Not sure how you watch a first half where dominated possession and could quite easily gone into the locker room up 2-0 and just say "meh." They played a completely different formation, it clearly flummoxed the Germans, and the result was a very one-sided 45 minutes.

As I said, the Germans figured shit out, and mins 45-60 were even up, or I'd give the edge to the Germans... Which resulted in the PK. And let's be really clear on this, because I feel like people are getting confused on this point. They had a ball placed 12 yards from our goal, with no defensive pressure, and they missed. She choked. Acting like the US was handed the game is really bizarre (to me) when the other team was awarded a PK before we had one in the back of the net.

I also don't really know what to make of your point about soccer being unique in terms of how playing from behind changes tactics. I'm not going to burn a bunch of words, because I must've missed your point. Every sport has examples of how a team playing from behind, especially late, is forced to change tactics. Are you talking about order of magnitude?

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:52 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:Not sure how you watch a first half where dominated possession and could quite easily gone into the locker room up 2-0 and just say "meh." They played a completely different formation, it clearly flummoxed the Germans, and the result was a very one-sided 45 minutes.

Pretty good and better than expected against the number one team in the world, does not equal 'meh' in my book. Not even close. I would reserve 'very one-sided' for a far greater difference in play. The German keeper played well, but I think the score supports the lack of American domination, though I am not suggesting by this that they were even-up on the field.. As to difference in possession, the Germans aren't much of a possession team as far as I can tell. However, I don't follow international women's soccer, so I haven't seen them play in years.

As I said, the Germans figured shit out, and mins 45-60 were even up, or I'd give the edge to the Germans

A single half is not always enough to determine which team will be seen as playing better after 90+ minutes. As you said, the Germans adapted to the American tactics and looked good. I'd say it's likely that this would have continued.

... Which resulted in the PK. And let's be really clear on this, because I feel like people are getting confused on this point. They had a ball placed 12 yards from our goal, with no defensive pressure, and they missed. She choked.

PKs are not automatic. What's the percentage of misses in high-level international women's soccer? My guess is 20-30%. And it would be on the high side against perhaps the greatest women's keeper in history. I wasn't paying a lot of attention to the details, but the German appeared to go for the side netting or the junction in the back corner -- a tough shot -- and didn't miss by all that much. I don't think this can be attributed with certainty to her mental state. Misses happen.

Acting like the US was handed the game is really bizarre (to me) when the other team was awarded a PK before we had one in the back of the net.

Game officials never truly hand a game to one team. Obviously the loser had many opportunities to do what it would have taken to win. But the two blown calls in this game had a great deal of influence. Much more so than in most games.

My argument is that those who claim that the US team would have won a game without the blown calls because they were so much better are incorrect. Especially when one of the blown calls was Johnson not getting a red. Playing from a scoreless tie (after the German missed the PK) with one less player would have made it tough to win. The Germans were doing quite well even with no advantage in the second half, as you acknowledge. Am I missing something in your argument that counter this claim?

I also don't really know what to make of your point about soccer being unique in terms of how playing from behind changes tactics. I'm not going to burn a bunch of words, because I must've missed your point. Every sport has examples of how a team playing from behind, especially late, is forced to change tactics. Are you talking about order of magnitude?

I think playing from behind is far more of a tactics-changer in soccer than most sports. Hockey and boxing are like this. But baseball, basketball, tennis, and others are much less so. Football is considerably less as teams don't dramatically 'open it up' when they are down by one score in the second half, but only if they are down by far more and with little time left. Those are vastly more 'major' sports in the USA at least. Am I missing other sports in the first category?

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 5:33 pm

I hate it when they say the English have 'nothing to lose'. Everything is on the line, some of these English players may never play in a World Cup semifinal again.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:19 pm

So much of sports announcing and reporting is just the emission of a limited set of cliches. I'm so used to this now that I just tune it out -- sometimes with the volume knob -- or stop reading an article when it's clear that this is all I'm getting. The same is largely true with business reporting.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:43 pm

Two first half penalties converted.

1-1.