2016 Presidential Race

GoodKarma · Post by **GoodKarma** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 3:59 pm

Jerloma wrote:
But I do believe in some (very few) specific traditionally conservative policies.

Like what? I'm just curious. I don't like to label myself as a liberal because I'm completely against mortgaging our future and I think we should cut spending on programs that don't work or aren't necessary. Is that considered a conservative trait? A fairly large chunk of that would probably be defense.

Certain components of tax policy (progressive rates and some other minor ideas) and an issue I'm not comfortable discussing over this medium (not trying to be difficult; it's just an issue with losers on all sides). The challenge is what constitutes a government program that is necessary or not? Working or not? One persons pork project is another person's job creation.

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:30 pm

GoodKarma wrote:
Jerloma wrote:
But I do believe in some (very few) specific traditionally conservative policies.

Like what? I'm just curious. I don't like to label myself as a liberal because I'm completely against mortgaging our future and I think we should cut spending on programs that don't work or aren't necessary. Is that considered a conservative trait? A fairly large chunk of that would probably be defense.
Certain components of tax policy (progressive rates and some other minor ideas) and an issue I'm not comfortable discussing over this medium (not trying to be difficult; it's just an issue with losers on all sides). The challenge is what constitutes a government program that is necessary or not? Working or not? One persons pork project is another person's job creation.

If it's so intangible that it can't be measured, it probably doesn't work.

howard · Post by **howard** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:31 pm

You can say what you want about Planned Parenthood, but that program works. Measurably.

I'd consider voting for Mark Cuban before any of these fucking clowns.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:31 pm

Well, can you "measure" what programs for the arts create when the kids grow up?

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:41 pm

The Sybian wrote:What is your opinion of the man? He came across as a ballsy guy who truly wanted to fix what is wrong in politics, yet had the sensibility to know he had no fucking chance of winning with that as a goal. He was very outspoken against the Bush administration, which is what put him on my radar.

I think Rocky certainly wants to fix many things that are wrong with politics. I am also quite certain that he believes what he says politically - he's not just taking positions cynically. But he is a politician, for better and for worse. For better, in that as mayor he was able to compromise where compromise was needed. And for worse, in that he can sometimes forget the difference between his own interest and the interest of his constituents.

I think he actually would make a good president if he could get elected, because I think he has the right values and works his ass off but also can back off if that is what it takes to get something done. Although everyone in Congress would hate him, and there would be story after story in the press about how many staffers quit because he's too hard to work for.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:06 am

Opus for president!

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:20 pm

DaveInSeattle wrote:
Or women (see the recent kerfuffle about Planned Parenthood, for example)

I think the difference in most issues is the framing of the question. The Left frames PP as 97% providing affordable healthcare, contraception and education to women, many who otherwise couldn't afford healthcare, with 3% (how is this measured?) of its work devoted to performing abortions. Government subsidies are segregated from the abortion business. The Right frames PP as heathen baby-killers harvesting fetal organs to sell for profits, which will lead to God's wrath destroying 'Murica.

The Left frames Welfare and Unemployment Benefits as a safety net to support people in a bad situation and allow them to get back on their feet. The Right frames it as lazy moochers who don't want to work because hey, free money and Obama phones! The solution to unemployment is "get a job!" and now that people working 40 hours a week are still eligible for foodstamps, the solution is "get a better job!"

Illegal immigrants? Humans doing whatever they can to make a better life for their family vs. sub-human brown people coming here to rape white women, steal our jobs and bring ISIS with them.

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 6:54 pm

You know that story about the girl who died in Columbine because she said she believed in God?

Someone get Rick Santorum on the horn and tell him that's a long-ago disproved myth and it never happened.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:48 pm

DaveInSeattle wrote:You know that story about the girl who died in Columbine because she said she believed in God?

Someone get Rick Santorum on the horn and tell him that's a long-ago disproved myth and it never happened.

True faith means that facts are irrelevant.

rass · Post by **rass** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:57 pm

Sweaty, eh?

rass · Post by **rass** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:04 pm

CNN gets Trump right next to Bush. Smart.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:08 pm

This 9/11ing is nuts

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:38 pm

Pruitt wrote:
DaveInSeattle wrote:You know that story about the girl who died in Columbine because she said she believed in God?

Someone get Rick Santorum on the horn and tell him that's a long-ago disproved myth and it never happened.
True faith means that facts are irrelevant.

Well played, Pruitt. Rick Santorum isn't a scientist, he doesn't care if there is any truth to the facts he cites or the anecdotes he shares.

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:27 pm

Ann Coulter, keeping it real...

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:32 pm

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:55 am

DaveInSeattle wrote:

Correct answer - Yes - if it was to a picture of Ann Coulter.

Missed the debate... unfortunately. But if any of you could clarify this quote from NBC News:

Jeb Bush demanded Trump apologize to Bush's wife, Columba, for suggesting Bush's views have been largely shaped by the fact that he is married to someone who is Mexican-American.

Why the outrage? Was this taken out of context? Is Bush so dense that he rises to any bait... even a comment that provides him with a great opening?

rass · Post by **rass** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:44 am

Brontoburglar wrote:This 9/11ing is nuts

I think I might have thrown my support behind Trump, or any of them really, if he had called Jeb! on his "one thing you can say about my brother...he kept the American people safe" comment.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:42 am

Pruitt wrote: Missed the debate... unfortunately. But if any of you could clarify this quote from NBC News:
Jeb Bush demanded Trump apologize to Bush's wife, Columba, for suggesting Bush's views have been largely shaped by the fact that he is married to someone who is Mexican-American.
Why the outrage? Was this taken out of context? Is Bush so dense that he rises to any bait... even a comment that provides him with a great opening?

Wouldn't he owe Jeb an apology, if an apology was due, since he called out Jeb for basing a policy on his wife? Saying his wife is Mexican-American is just stating a fact, right?

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:12 am

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:43 am

The Sybian wrote:
Pruitt wrote: Missed the debate... unfortunately. But if any of you could clarify this quote from NBC News:
Jeb Bush demanded Trump apologize to Bush's wife, Columba, for suggesting Bush's views have been largely shaped by the fact that he is married to someone who is Mexican-American.
Why the outrage? Was this taken out of context? Is Bush so dense that he rises to any bait... even a comment that provides him with a great opening?
Wouldn't he owe Jeb an apology, if an apology was due, since he called out Jeb for basing a policy on his wife? Saying his wife is Mexican-American is just stating a fact, right?

Yeah, but there was also a great opening there. A chance to say that he was tough on illegal immigrants, but had the utmost respect (and hard ons) for those who have come to America and played by the rules.

Or words to that effect.

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:16 am

How the fuck does JEB! stand there and say There's one thing I'll tell you about my brother, he kept us safe" without every person in the entire country yelling back "Sure....if you don't count the 3000 people killed on 9/11, or the 4000 US military killed in Iraq".

Good fucking god...

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:18 am

It's every emoji on your phone!

Keg · Post by **Keg** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:49 am

Am I trippin or did Carson say that he would force illegal immigrants to work in fields in order to let them stay in the country?

Post by **brian** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:59 am

Keg wrote:Am I trippin or did Carson say that he would force illegal immigrants to work in fields in order to let them stay in the country?

So, basically status quo right? <rimshot>

Seriously, if he said that, that's pretty damn stupid and probably not even one of the 20 stupidest things uttered last night.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:05 am

Loving Slate and Salon rushing to be the first to declare Trump done after last night. If they think his followers give a shit about debate performance on substance, they are extra-fucking clueless.

Post by **brian** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:12 am

Isn't this the 10 or 15th time the media has declared Trump dead? I mean, it'll happen eventually but how many times can you be wrong before people stop listening?

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:27 am

26. I know from experience.

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:59 am

brian wrote:Isn't this the 10 or 15th time the media has declared Trump dead? I mean, it'll happen eventually but how many times can you be wrong before people stop listening?

26.

Post by **brian** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:16 pm

PFT Commenter on the debate.

Leading into the debate people called Huckabee insenstive and lazy for making a reference to Obama leading Israel into the ovens, like its poor form to compare someone to Hitler. Well you know who never got compared to Hitler?Hitler. If Hitler had existed before Hitler then we would've had Hitler to compare Hitler to and Hitler would've never gone into power.

bfj · Post by **bfj** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:07 pm

Keg wrote:Am I trippin or did Carson say that he would force illegal immigrants to work in fields in order to let them stay in the country?

Am I trippin or did Trump try and connect autism to vaccines?

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:40 pm

bfj wrote:
Keg wrote:Am I trippin or did Carson say that he would force illegal immigrants to work in fields in order to let them stay in the country?
Am I trippin or did Trump try and connect autism to vaccines?

He didn't try, he conclusively proved the connection. He watched a friend's beautiful 2 year old get a vaccine big enough for a horse, and boom, instantly caught the autism. I love the visual of Trump standing in a pediatrician's exam room for some reason, watching a friend's kid get vaccinated. WTF? The premise of his anecdotes make zero sense, and it is incredibly obvious he is making them up right then with no thought. And world renowned medical doctor Ben Carson stood next to him and said nothing.

bfj · Post by **bfj** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:49 pm

Carson did point out that there is no proven connection between the two, but he did it nicely. He could have slammed him on the fact that he's quoting research that was debunked 15 years ago. He could have pointed out that autism is not an epidemic and that of course we see more people with autism now because they don't get stuck into institutions or special schools anymore. Isn't Rand Paul a doctor also? Carson gave Trump the out by saying that the grouping of vaccines may be detrimental and that it was being studied.

rass · Post by **rass** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:01 pm

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:06 pm

bfj wrote:Carson did point out that there is no proven connection between the two, but he did it nicely. He could have slammed him on the fact that he's quoting research that was debunked 15 years ago. He could have pointed out that autism is not an epidemic and that of course we see more people with autism now because they don't get stuck into institutions or special schools anymore. Isn't Rand Paul a doctor also? Carson gave Trump the out by saying that the grouping of vaccines may be detrimental and that it was being studied.

He was an ophthalmologist, but that should be enough education to understand how medical studies work. Another reason is a hell of a lot of kids wild less noticeable symptoms or Asperger's were just considered offbeat and not diagnosed.

Rand Paul was very vocal during the Ebola Pandemic of 2014 saying Obama was hiding the dangers of Ebola, as it spreads very easily. He said something to the effect that if you are at a cocktail party with someone with Ebola, you are getting Ebola. And something to the effect of Obama makes it sound like you get Ebola through contact with bodily fluids, so people think it is like AIDS, but it's not true, it's very contagious.

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:08 pm

rass wrote:

Well, thank Jeebus for that.

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:05 am

Howard's buddy doesn't think Muslims should be allowed to be POTUS. It's funny because he sounds exactly like some bigot in the 60s trying to explain why a black man can't be POTUS.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:27 am

Jerloma wrote:Howard's buddy doesn't think Muslims should be allowed to be POTUS. It's funny because he sounds exactly like some bigot in the 60s trying to explain why a black man can't be POTUS.

Comparing Carson's bigotry towards Muslims and gays to discrimination against blacks doesn't work. Carson said slavery wasn't such a bad thing, as it got slaves and their descendents out of Africa.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:57 am

Jerloma wrote:Howard's buddy doesn't think Muslims should be allowed to be POTUS. It's funny because he sounds exactly like some bigot in the 60s trying to explain why a black man can't be POTUS.

When I was a kid, my parents told me that Kennedy becoming President was huge because of the fact that he was Roman Catholic. People had said that it would never happen.

And to be clear - my parents weren't anti-Catholic. They were just saying...

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:33 pm

Scott Walker and his weird bald spot has dropped.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:39 pm

I found him the most scary from a stances : electability ratio.