Syria

testuser2 · Post by **testuser2** » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:17 am

If you are wondering who the people are that want to go to Syria go ahead and stop by your local VFW or American Legion Post. They are pissed off that Obama is even asking Congress. Put some boots on the ground is their recommendation.

howard · Post by **howard** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:54 pm

Searching for a place for this link, and I didn't want to start an Iran thread. (Don't want to hex and start a war; I'm too timid to try the reverse-hex.)

A story about an earlier negotiation between the US and Iran.

When Rouhani Met Ollie North
… and strung the White House along to get more weapons.

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:54 pm

Al-Qaeda-linked rebels apologise after cutting off head of wrong person
Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham militants say sorry for decapitating a fellow extremist rather than enemy

Assad is fixin' to go all Romans on Carthage on what remains of the city of Aleppo pretty soon. This battle started last weekend, and it could be the climax of this war. Gonna be particularly bloody and ugly.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:53 am

howard wrote:Al-Qaeda-linked rebels apologise after cutting off head of wrong person
Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham militants say sorry for decapitating a fellow extremist rather than enemy

Assad is fixin' to go all Romans on Carthage on what remains of the city of Aleppo pretty soon. This battle started last weekend, and it could be the climax of this war. Gonna be particularly bloody and ugly.

Good one, the Onion.

Wait, what?

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:40 am

howard wrote:Al-Qaeda-linked rebels apologise after cutting off head of wrong person
Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham militants say sorry for decapitating a fellow extremist rather than enemy

Assad is fixin' to go all Romans on Carthage on what remains of the city of Aleppo pretty soon. This battle started last weekend, and it could be the climax of this war. Gonna be particularly bloody and ugly.

It takes a big man to admit their mistakes and apologize. I think Al-Qaeda should be applauded for their courage.

cerrano · Post by **cerrano** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:55 pm

The Sybian wrote:
howard wrote:Al-Qaeda-linked rebels apologise after cutting off head of wrong person
Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham militants say sorry for decapitating a fellow extremist rather than enemy

Assad is fixin' to go all Romans on Carthage on what remains of the city of Aleppo pretty soon. This battle started last weekend, and it could be the climax of this war. Gonna be particularly bloody and ugly.

It takes a big man to admit their mistakes and apologize. I think Al-Qaeda should be applauded for their courage.

that was nice of you, syb, to give howard some swamp company on "the list."

rass · Post by **rass** » Mon Oct 13, 2014 7:20 am

Best. BENGHAZI!!! Ever.

howard · Post by **howard** » Sat Sep 26, 2015 2:11 pm

I've continued to follow this part of the world closely, even though I rarely post about it here anymore. But the events of the past few weeks have been mind-boggling. American awareness will be brought up to speed (well, through the fun house mirror of distortion of the corporate/imperialist media) with Putin's speech to the world on Monday. Hint-read the actual words, rather than rely on cnn/msnbc/fox/nytimes to tell you what he said.

In super brief, Putin has taken the abject failure of US policy as his opportunity to both secure his nation's interests and to put an end to the real threat of ISIS and other associated terrorists groups which have strengthened over the past couple of years. Tired of the chaos resulting from US actions, he is stepping in to take control.

Putin has forged an alliance of Assad, Iran, Hezbollah and even China. (A Chinese aircraft carrier and a missile cruiser have reportedly docked in Tartus today.) They have all pooled significant military assets on the ground in Syria, and are mounting a serious military offensive with the twin goals of protecting the Assad government control of the country ( including retaking control of lost cities and regions) and largely with Syrian/Hezbollah manpower and Russian/Iranian air, technical, intelligence and logistical support, wiping out ISIS.

The total numbers of Russian and Iranian deployed troops, aircraft, radar, missile, antiaircraft, tanks and artillery are not clear, but they are significant. They have already launched coordinated (with the Syrian army) ground and air attacks against ISIS-held territory.

Two weeks ago, Kerry and other DC sources were expressing surprise, befuddlement and concern at the Russian military presence. They even did incredibly stupid and childish things like twist the arms of the Greek and Bulgarian governments to deny passage of Russian transport planes through their airspace, and floated the media meme that the refugee crisis in Europe was Putin's fault (because he wouldn't let them conquer Assad). Obama shouted 'King Me!" in response to Vlad's "Check".

But, as they recognized the new realities which they never saw coming, over the last few days Kerry talked with Lavrov, the two defense ministers spoke, Netanyahu flew to Moscow (to be told to step the fuck aside), Obama will appear with Vlad on Monday afternoon, and yet another foreign policy debacle will be declared a victory.

It is a lot more complex. The actions of Turkey, Israel, Saudi Arabia, the various flavors of islamic terror groups including the fictional 'moderate rebels', all kinds of fascinating twists and turns. But there's a new sheriff in town; a sheriff who has a coherent vision of how to best protect against American imperialist bullshit.

While I'm at it, this little piece I think perfectly represents Obama's foreign policy (I don't feel like firing up the Obama Meltdown thread).
Finger-Pointing, but Few Answers, After a Syria Solution Fails

WASHINGTON — By any measure, President Obama’s effort to train a Syrian opposition army to fight the Islamic State on the ground has been an abysmal failure. The military acknowledged this week that just four or five American-trained fighters are actually fighting.

But the White House says it is not to blame. The finger, it says, should be pointed not at Mr. Obama but at those who pressed him to attempt training Syrian rebels in the first place — a group that, in addition to congressional Republicans, happened to include former Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Sat Sep 26, 2015 2:20 pm

Interesting stuff.

So Putin's doing a Trump and just rolling in to a place and getting things done.

Good for him.

howard · Post by **howard** » Sat Sep 26, 2015 2:46 pm

Shockingly, or not, I read that Trump expressed approval of the Russian intervention. I bet no other candidate says that.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Sun Sep 27, 2015 12:40 am

I thought we were bombing ISIS back to the stone age? How can Russia wipe them out if we're already doing that?

I mean, it sounds inefficient to essentially bomb smoking bomb craters where ISIS assets once stood. Shouldn't the two countries co-ordinate a bit? Each one could wipe out half of ISIS, and then in October shift targets so that each one could wipe out half of the Taliban.

And people say this foreign policy stuff is hard.

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:01 pm

This chick is awesome. Also, probably soon to be dead, but awesome, nonetheless.

Post by **brian** » Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:09 pm

I'd give her citizenship in my house.

Keg · Post by **Keg** » Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:04 pm

Funny how folks assume Russia will be successful in the middle east.

howard · Post by **howard** » Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:09 pm

The bar is pretty damn low. Can't do any worse.

And if success is maintaining Assad and their naval base at Tartus, again, low bar.

Johnny Carwash · Post by **Johnny Carwash** » Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:16 pm

I can't believe the West would leave Russia to do the bulk of the dirty work against an army of genocidal maniacs.

nastyned · Post by **nastyned** » Fri Oct 09, 2015 3:01 pm

With the mess in the Middle East right now, who in their right mind would want to be president?

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 1:24 am

Johnny Carwash wrote:I can't believe the West would leave Russia to do the bulk of the dirty work against an army of genocidal maniacs.

Putin doesn't have the same goals as the Americans. The Russians don't need to dominate the entire middle east, nor do they need to defeat ISIS everywhere they exist. What is a hopeless morass for the Americans might be a congenial situation for the Russians.

Consider the American situation if it plays out that Iraq is basically split up between the current government, a Kurdish de facto state, and ISIS. And in Syria, Russia/Assad and ISIS push back the Kurds and eliminate the myriad 'rebel' and al Qaeda groups. What would the American military do in a fight between between Russia/Assad and ISIS? I don't think they will be flying bombing missions over the Russia/Assad positions or sending advisors to work with ISIS. The end game in Syria may well be Russia/Assad + USA v. ISIS. Allies again, just like in WWII. I'd bet on the former to at least push the latter out of Syria.

After that? There's never been such a chaotic multi-actor conflict. So who can say anything with confidence?

But my guess is that there will be a significant part of Syria under the governance of an Alawite/Assad group, backed by Russia and their military bases in the country. Perhaps Bashar al-Assad steps aside in a deal to placate the Americans. That would be a nice outcome, on multiple levels, for Putin and Assad. Not really a bad one for the USA either, in Syria at least, given that they had such a terrible hand to start with. Supporting the Assad regime after declaring him a genocidal war criminal would just be par for the American course in the Middle East.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 9:25 am

nastyned wrote:With the mess in the Middle East right now, who in their right mind would want to be president?

Nice!

And that singer woman is awesome. Hope she decides on a move to Canada.

US admits failure of Syrian policy. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/wor ... e26763771/

Officially the $500-million (U.S.) train-and-equip scheme, which put only a few dozen fighters in action, has been only “paused,” but senior officials admitted the basic strategy has been scrapped.

No longer will the U.S. seek to individually recruit, vet, train and equip supposedly moderate, secular, democratically inclined fighters who are willing to agree to combat Islamic State, the militant Sunni group that has carved a nascent caliphate out of western Iraq and eastern Syria.

Instead, the Pentagon will seek to back existing rebel groups such as the Kurds who – with the help of U.S. air strikes – retook the border city of Kobani from Islamic State earlier this year.

I'm no military strategist, but cherry-picking "supposedly moderate, secular, democratically inclined fighters" in the middle of a civil war doesn't seem like the most efficient way to do things.

Keg · Post by **Keg** » Sun Oct 11, 2015 11:36 pm

Not a good start for the Russians:

First on CNN: U.S. officials say Russian missiles heading for Syria landed in Iran

howard · Post by **howard** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:11 am

Three day old report, unconfirmed. MIC doesn't want competition from selling cruise missiles. Russian models retail at 20% of Raytheon's price, go boom just as well.

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:33 pm

Pretty good article on Russian actions in Syria. The topic is complex and defies summation in one article. He has several links to some interesting things, particularly Lawrence Wilkerson, former chief of staff to Sec State Colin Powell.

Putin might be right on Syria: The actual strategy behind his Middle East push — and why the New York Times keeps obscuring it

howard · Post by **howard** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:38 am

Turkey shoots down Russian jet. So, NATO, you wanna go to war w/Russia over this?

I'm sure Mr. Putin has anticipated such an event, and will have a cool, calculated and strategically logical response. Cuz that is how he rolls.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:41 am

Uh oh.

Fasten your seat belts, it's going to be a bumpy ride.

(And for pure entertainment value, can't wait to hear the G.O.P. candidates' takes)

rass · Post by **rass** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:44 am

howard wrote:Turkey shoots down Russian jet. So, NATO, you wanna go to war w/Russia over this?

I'm sure Mr. Putin has anticipated such an event, and will have a cool, calculated and strategically logical response. Cuz that is how he rolls.

It sounds like Russia is insisting it could have been ground-to-air (and therefore Syrian rebels) while Turkey is insisting they did it?

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:05 am

I for one think it was high time turkeys starting fighting back this time of year.

howard · Post by **howard** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:48 am

Initially the Russian Foreign Ministry declared a ground-to-air was a possibility. But a couple of hours later Putin said directly that it was an air-to-air.

Moreta · Post by **Moreta** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:55 am

A_B wrote:I for one think it was high time turkeys starting fighting back this time of year.

/slowclap

rass · Post by **rass** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:04 am

A_B wrote:I for one think it was high time turkeys starting fighting back this time of year.

howard · Post by **howard** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 5:47 pm

Russian military briefing. From the horse's, err, the bear's mouth: " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Keg · Post by **Keg** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 7:08 pm

Apparently El Chapo is threatening war against ISIS over destroyed drug shipments in the middle east:

http://www.chron.com/news/nation-world/ ... 689840.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:43 pm

I hear ISIS took out a CIA shipment too. I'm not sure they can handle what's coming for them when Sinaloa/CIA coalition hits the ground. We've seen what they can do in Somalia and Serbia, not to mention Texas. Nobody destabilizes like these guys.

Keg · Post by **Keg** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:17 am

Smooth sailing for the Russians thus far:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... e-ihzauuvr" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 5:33 am

The first plane loads of Syrian refugees have started to arrive,

Here in Toronto, the Prime Minister was here to greet them along with the Premier (Governor) and the Mayor (not Rob Ford).

The whole thing makes it a bit dusty for me - school children put together welcome packages, people drove out to the airport to make the new arrivals feel welcome.

Very nice. http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/12 ... -home.html

howard · Post by **howard** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:38 am

Keg wrote:Smooth sailing for the Russians thus far:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... e-ihzauuvr" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

An op-ed piece in bloomberg.

If nine weeks makes a quagmire, what is 14 years in Afghanistan, 12 in Iraq?

Other media report quite differently. Slow, difficult progress, but that is how war goes:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-midea ... ZgWkcgD.97" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:50 am

Keg wrote:Apparently El Chapo is threatening war against ISIS over destroyed drug shipments in the middle east:

http://www.chron.com/news/nation-world/ ... 689840.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Haaaa, yeah ISIS disapproves of the drugs. Islam maybe, but ISIS gets to sell that shit themselves.

howard · Post by **howard** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:56 am

A pretty significant development, which has been brewing according to scattered reports, but Putin just made officia todayl:

Putin says Russia backs Free Syrian Army alongside Assad troops

FSA has been the main anti-Assad group, heavily supported by the US over the last four years.

"The work of our aviation group assists in uniting the efforts of government troops and the Free Syrian Army," Putin told an annual meeting at the defense ministry.

"Now several of its units numbering over 5,000 troops are engaged in offensive actions against terrorists, alongside regular forces, in the provinces of Homs, Hama, Aleppo and Raqqa," he said, referring to the Free Syrian Army.

"We support it from the air, as well as the Syrian army, we assist them with weapons, ammunition and provide material support."

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:13 pm

"Everybody come meet the newest Middle East rebel group we'll be arming!"

As long as the US and Russia back the same peeps there can be no WW3 for the moment, at least.

howard · Post by **howard** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:20 pm

Gunpowder wrote:As long as the US and Russia back the same peeps there can be no WW3 for the moment, at least.

Until Turkey bombs them. Or France or the UK 'by mistake'. Syrian army troops were bombed from the air twice last week. Isis doesn't have an air force.

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:40 pm

howard wrote:A pretty significant development, which has been brewing according to scattered reports, but Putin just made officia todayl:

Putin says Russia backs Free Syrian Army alongside Assad troops

FSA has been the main anti-Assad group, heavily supported by the US over the last four years.

"The work of our aviation group assists in uniting the efforts of government troops and the Free Syrian Army," Putin told an annual meeting at the defense ministry.

"Now several of its units numbering over 5,000 troops are engaged in offensive actions against terrorists, alongside regular forces, in the provinces of Homs, Hama, Aleppo and Raqqa," he said, referring to the Free Syrian Army.

"We support it from the air, as well as the Syrian army, we assist them with weapons, ammunition and provide material support."

This is like Yugoslavia in World War II. In addition to the Germans, Italians, and Hungarians occupying the country, you had nationalist and anti-nationalist groups from several different nationalities, plus Communist and anti-Communist resistance in different areas, plus Fascist and anti-Fascist resistance groups in different areas.

Everyone was allied with everyone else and at war with everyone else at the same time.