2015 NL Central playoffs (and NYM/LAD)

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:21 pm

I meant the homer.

Also, I always thought a pitcher's error should be an earned run.

howard · Post by **howard** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:23 pm

ah.

and i agree about the earned run, i think. i haven't thoroughly thought it through.

howard · Post by **howard** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:30 pm

Well, at least Lance Lynn has had good success vs the Cubbies this year.

0-3, (1nd) 17.2IP 21hits 16R 15ER WHIP 1.811

howard · Post by **howard** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 8:38 pm

Dos a Cero! (clap clap clap clap)

oh, wait. Getting my hatreds confused.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 10:46 pm

on the collision at 2nd neither Tejada or Utley have touched the bag. After 5 minutes can one of them just touch the bag or is Utley out cause he left the field.

edit: WOW call is overturned, Utley is safe despite never touching the base.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 10:53 pm

I don't care what Howard says, a fastball at Utley's hands is fair play.

rass · Post by **rass** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 10:59 pm

Baseball is dumb sometimes.

howard · Post by **howard** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 11:08 pm

So, the neighborhood play is review-able. Got it.

And of course you can throw at Utley, and I'm not saying that because he is a Dodger.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 11:14 pm

Also complete bullshit is that if Carlos Gomez breaks Jeter on that exact slide, the reaction is completely different.

rass · Post by **rass** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 11:19 pm

Post by **brian** » Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:00 am

I like baseball but I hate a baseball where not only is Utley safe but he's not ejected immediately.

Post by **brian** » Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:05 am

If I was emperor of baseball (which no one wants) Utley would be suspended for the rest of the playoffs.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:37 am

One vote for you here.

I'm baffled as to why umps find it so hard to use the existing rules that make illegal slides that have ill intent. These shouldn't be hard calls. In umpire training sessions, is the league failing to provide clear examples of the borderline between legal and illegal slides? And how can the league not impose major penalties on players who break this rule?

It's obviously not just Utley's slide. Pittsburg's second baseman was taken out a couple of weeks ago in an ugly manner. And there are many close calls. I would think the owners would be all over this, as they have substantial assets out there, exposed to risks that aren't that hard to minimize.

It took Posey's injury to change the rules at home plate. Will it take Tulowitzki's future injury to change the rules elsewhere, or would just Lindor or Correa do the trick?

Talk about MLB being locked in the dark ages. This one is so much easier than properly regulating PEDs or materially improving ball-strike calls. Can they get nothing right? That is, nothing that is not directly related to this year's revenues?

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:38 am

howard wrote:And of course you can throw at Utley, and I'm not saying that because he is a Dodger.

So, two reasons.

bapo! · Post by **bapo!** » Sun Oct 11, 2015 9:26 am

Tip of the cap to Utley. Good hard baseball play. He plays the game the right way. [spits]

I've always hated this play. After the Jung-Ho Kang injury, there was some talk about it, and I thought that we might be heading towards a rule change. Then the Gregorious/Altuve slide happened in the Yankees/Astros game, which was even worse, even tho it didn't result in an injury. Now this. I'm sure that the league will talk about it in the off-season. Whether they do anything or not remains to be seen.

In football, you can't go after a punter's legs when he's in a defenseless position. What's the difference here? Why are baserunners never punished for this kind of thing?

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Sun Oct 11, 2015 9:28 am

Definate dirty slide when it is late and way past the base.

But doesnt Tejada take some of the blame too? A SS should never turn counterclock wise at 2B to make a throw to first. The throw to 2B was high. He should face Utley and protect himself and not throw to first

bapo! · Post by **bapo!** » Sun Oct 11, 2015 9:32 am

degenerasian wrote:Definate dirty slide when it is late and way past the base.

But doesnt Tejada take some of the blame too? A SS should never turn counterclock wise at 2B to make a throw to first. The throw to 2B was high. He should face Utley and protect himself and not throw to first

I don't think that victim-blaming is in order here. Tejada was on the shortstop side of the bag. He has a reasonable expectation that the base-runner is not going to run past the bag and dive into his legs. This is 0% his fault.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Sun Oct 11, 2015 9:44 am

bapo! wrote:
degenerasian wrote:Definate dirty slide when it is late and way past the base.

But doesnt Tejada take some of the blame too? A SS should never turn counterclock wise at 2B to make a throw to first. The throw to 2B was high. He should face Utley and protect himself and not throw to first
I don't think that victim-blaming is in order here. Tejada was on the shortstop side of the bag. He has a reasonable expectation that the base-runner is not going to run past the bag and dive into his legs. This is 0% his fault.

I just dont like the 360. The Kang injury he was on the 2nd base side making a natural play and the slide was wide. If Tejada continues forward where Kang got hit Utley is not there.

bapo! · Post by **bapo!** » Sun Oct 11, 2015 9:49 am

degenerasian wrote:If Tejada continues forward where Kang got hit Utley is not there.

Or Utley would have adjusted his path and hit him anyway. He seemed pretty determined to make contact.

I think we're just going to disagree about this, degen.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Sun Oct 11, 2015 10:07 am

bapo! wrote:
degenerasian wrote:If Tejada continues forward where Kang got hit Utley is not there.
Or Utley would have adjusted his path and hit him anyway. He seemed pretty determined to make contact.

I think we're just going to disagree about this, degen.

He was indeed determined. I would suspend Utley for the rest of the series.

howard · Post by **howard** » Sun Oct 11, 2015 10:50 am

I thought the Buster Posey rule would be difficult for baseball to swallow. That there would be plenty of ambiguity in application of the rule, player would test the limits of the rule (both baserunners and catchers blocking the plate) and lots of problems and confusion.

Didn't happen. Just a handful of incidents that helped to form the new reality. This positive experience should inform MLB on fixing this second base hard slide situation.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Sun Oct 11, 2015 11:13 am

hmm how would such a rue apply, the infield doesn't block the bag...

how about a circle at second base, radius 2 yards from the bag. If you finish your slide outside that circle the inning is over and no runs score on that play.

bapo! · Post by **bapo!** » Sun Oct 11, 2015 11:32 am

howard wrote:I thought the Buster Posey rule would be difficult for baseball to swallow. That there would be plenty of ambiguity in application of the rule, player would test the limits of the rule (both baserunners and catchers blocking the plate) and lots of problems and confusion.

Didn't happen. Just a handful of incidents that helped to form the new reality. This positive experience should inform MLB on fixing this second base hard slide situation.

There was some confusion and poor umpiring the first year or two. (Russell Martin stepping on the plate on a bases-loaded force play, then the runner ruled safe upon review because of catcher's interference, etc.) But that kind of thing happens in every sport when a new rule is instituted. Judgment error, doesn't mean that the rule is bad.

If a rule is implemented here, there will be a lot of bad calls at first because it's entirely up to the umpire's discretion. But I would rather see bad calls instead of broken legs.

Also, would this be called The Chase Utley Rule or The Ruben Tejada Rule? Utley is a bigger star. Plus, he's white. I fear that Tejada will be lost to history.

howard · Post by **howard** » Sun Oct 11, 2015 12:26 pm

bapo! wrote: Also, would this be called The Chase Utley Rule or The Ruben Tejada Rule?

Well, this is one way to bring him back into the game.

(actually, the slide was clean, and the DP completed. Rose stood up after the slide and (quite intentionally) hit Bud in the jaw with his elbow. Photos and analysis at the link below.)

http://metsfantasycards.blogspot.com/20 ... chive.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Sun Oct 11, 2015 12:49 pm

I'm like 70% certain there would be a Chase Utley rule if the actors were reversed. The Posey rule had everything to do with the league losing a star for a needless play, so "was that Utley's last career play???" in the playoffs would have been enough.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Sun Oct 11, 2015 8:35 pm

Utley has been suspended for Games 3 and 4

SportsDoc · Post by **SportsDoc** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:30 am

Always wondered why when MLB changed plate collision rule they did not change the force play slide rule at the same time. Those rules, used at all non-professional levels of baseball, including D-I, mirror the plate collision rule, and go hand in hand with each other.

I umpired HS and small college for 26 years. Those calls are easy, and once you make one (automatic DP), the players and coaches will comply.

The force play slide rule is simple: Player must slide directly into the base and not beyond, or else avoid a collision (peel off the base line). If he does not, and he makes contact with the fielder or interferes with the throw, the ball is dead, that player is out, if there are less than 2 outs the batter is also out and all other runners must return to the base they occupied when the ball was put in play.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:22 am

degenerasian wrote:Utley has been suspended for Games 3 and 4

This is wrong, precedent wise, but I'm fine with setting precedent in this instance because precedent is needed.

(Although I hope the hearing is delayed and its for Games 4 and 5. Utley facing Harvey, who already has half of the fanbase and supposedly most of the locker room against him, forced to decide between winning and revenge. This would be about as must see as non-sports gets for me.)

((Unless the conspiracy theory that he wants a legit pre-UFA contract and thus needs to get out of Queens are true, in which case he doesn't throw at Utley, that's viewed as a bad thing and those who hate him dig in even harder.))

(((If I'm the Mets, I absolutely trade him this offseason if you can get roughly the equivalent level position player.)))

howard · Post by **howard** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 12:59 pm

Do you hit Utley with a pitch, or just tackle him at 2b on the first double play ball? Or both?

howard · Post by **howard** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:15 pm

You know what else gets old pretty fast? Yet another airing of the Kenny Rodgers commercial. We get the gist.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:18 pm

howard wrote:Do you hit Utley with a pitch, or just tackle him at 2b on the first double play ball? Or both?

This gets into the worst case scenario, which is some dick (probably Cuddyer) rolling Seager on a double play. That would be a lot worse than Utley just because intent wouldn't even be in doubt.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:20 pm

mister d wrote:
howard wrote:Do you hit Utley with a pitch, or just tackle him at 2b on the first double play ball? Or both?
This gets into the worst case scenario, which is some dick (probably Cuddyer) rolling Seager on a double play. That would be a lot worse than Utley just because intent wouldn't even be in doubt.

Yeah, the potential for ugliness is fairly high.

rass · Post by **rass** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:33 pm

sancarlos wrote:
mister d wrote:
howard wrote:Do you hit Utley with a pitch, or just tackle him at 2b on the first double play ball? Or both?
This gets into the worst case scenario, which is some dick (probably Cuddyer) rolling Seager on a double play. That would be a lot worse than Utley just because intent wouldn't even be in doubt.
Yeah, the potential for ugliness is fairly high.

I'd say it's almost off the charts...

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:46 pm

"I missed the ball but my good friend David is gonna make me feel better because he's such a good friend and I sure do like playing on the same team as him."

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:08 pm

Arrieta looks very, very human tonight.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:50 pm

Steve of phpBB wrote:Arrieta looks very, very human tonight.

Wind blowing out 20 - 30 mph will get in heads. Still has you all up. Bryant murdered that pitch.

howard · Post by **howard** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 7:15 pm

This is a good one. (not that the kc comeback wasn't exciting)

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 7:44 pm

I'd prefer boring from here on out.

howard · Post by **howard** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 7:46 pm

so Dodgers start Rollins at short, don't want their baby ss Seager to get hurt.

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 7:48 pm

That line out saved Baez's career in Chicago.