The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by **brian** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:32 pm

I guess where we'll have to agree to disagree is "smart people falling for it".

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:21 pm

brian wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:32 pm I guess where we'll have to agree to disagree is "smart people falling for it".

Heh, I had a hard time writing that, but I have a couple family members who are highly intelligent, but brainwashed. The problem is, we view the world with a different fact pattern, so debate and discussion are pointless.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:55 am

You can be highly intelligent, doesn't make you smart. Lots and lots of people with high IQs are incurious.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:02 am

I heard many here say the Wall is a non-starter in negotiations and I agree. But it is now definitely included.
DACA is the Democrats anchor. They will concede almost everything to save the Dreamers. It's only the first step and the wall is already gone. There will be many steps and many negotiations because it's not only DACA, it's immigration as a whole. What do the Democrats really want immigration to look like? The 800,000 Dreamers are only those who signed up. I will explain after the video.

This video of Luis Gutierrez will make your blood boil

The Republicans know they can lie and stall and ask for more concessions and the Democrats have to accept it to save the Dreamers. It has become an issue of feeling rather than policy

To get back to the above. DACA (as you all know) protects undocumented immigrants who had to be younger than 31 on June 15, 2012, must have come to the U.S. when they were younger than 16, and must have lived in the U.S. since 2007. 800,000 Dreamers is the number of people who applied and were granted this status. There is an estimated 2 million people who qualify. So less then 50% applied. Why?

1. They didn't know about it
2. They couldn't afford the $500 fee
3. They didn't want to handover their information to the government which would out themselves and their parents.

The Republicans are evil and they are going to milk this as the March deadline approaches. The Dems have no leverage, they HAVE to save the Dreamers and maybe more. Remember the Republican government now has the Dreamers information that they handed over. The can hold it for ransom.

Here's an example (i'm going to make this up)
GOP: For an immigration bill that grants Dreamers green cards we want 1.6 billion for the wall, CR, and elimination of lottery visa and sponsorship of sibling
DEMS: OK, but the dreamers should get citizenship not just green cards
GOP: Give us more wall funding and more CR
DEMS: OK
GOP: We're going to deport everyone else and begin with Dreamers parents since we have their information.
DEMS: Wait, that's wrong you can't separate families.
GOP: Give us more money for the wall and more CR and we'll give Dreamers parents green cards too
DEMS: OK
GOP: We'll deport everyone else.
DEMS: wait what about those who qualified for DACA but didn't apply, or the one who just missed out. A person who came to America just after 2007 at the age of 6 is now 18 and top of her class. Or a person who was just too old for DACA but is one of the best adademics in the country. You can't deport someone who just missed out or someone because they were scared or couldn't afford it.
GOP: ok no family unification period, no wives no parents nobody
DEMS: OK
DEMS: wait what about El Salvadorians and Haitians workers who have done nothing?
GOP: defund medicare
DEMS: OK

give give give. cave cave cave.

The democrats have to draw a line. We're going to protect the dreamers and sign an immigration bill and that's it. Sorry to say but some people will fall through the cracks and get deported. It has to happen. They cannot concede everything to protect everyone. They will lose voters.

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:10 am

Trump's voter fraud commission requested records for all Texans with Hispanic surnames

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:29 am

Rush2112 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:10 am Trump's voter fraud commission requested records for all Texans with Hispanic surnames

I'm disappointed at how little attention the disbanding of the Voter Fraud Commission received. The Dems on the Commission asked to see the evidence compiled by the Commission, and the GOPers refused to show it to them. When the Dems asked the courts to step in, Trump ended the Commission rather than show the Dems what they had. The entire thing was a sham from the start. Trump needed it to assuage his fragile ego, because he couldn't accept losing the popular vote, and the Republicans wanted to make a spectacle supporting their need to suppress votes and increase their chances of winning future elections. The whole thing was a disgusting sham, with racial overtones, and all the people who believed Trump's guarantees that 3-5 people voted illegally will continue to believe it, despite maybe a dozen instances of fraud occurring, most of whom voted FOR Trump. I'm sure in 2018, we will hear Republicans use the Commission as evidence of an epidemic of voter fraud and a need to suppress the votes of legitimately qualified voters in predominantly lower income and minority areas (higher percentage of Dems), to prevent a handful of illegal votes.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:04 pm

Whoever runs in 2020 needs to hammer this stuff in the debates with like, specifics and shit.

Post by **brian** » Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:12 pm

Gunpowder wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:04 pm Whoever runs in 2020 needs to hammer this stuff in the debates with like, specifics and shit.

Unless they ever got some email on a private server in which case then fuck them.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:31 pm

Look at this fucking poll question ...

Who do you hate most:
- Obama
- Trump
- Kushner
- Bannon
- Miller
- Huckabee Sanders
- McConnell
- Ryan

WOW PEOPLE REALLY HATE OBAMA THE MOST!

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:36 pm

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:42 pm

It seems like Trump was better at dealmaking when he could just rip off creditors and refuse to pay any money he owed to anyone.

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:54 pm

Gunpowder wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:42 pm It seems like Trump was better at dealmaking when he could just rip off creditors and refuse to pay any money he owed to anyone.

Bingo.

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:48 pm

The Sybian wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:29 am
Rush2112 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:10 am Trump's voter fraud commission requested records for all Texans with Hispanic surnames
I'm disappointed at how little attention the disbanding of the Voter Fraud Commission received.

It's the administration's ineptness that keeps us from concentrating on one thing. The one thing they are not inept at is making the populace/media move on to the next car wreck.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:08 pm

Post by **brian** » Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:25 pm

Johnnie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:55 pm And it goes without saying, Senator Tammy Duckworth is a fucking boss.

"I will not be lectured about what our military needs by a five-deferment draft-dodger," Duckworth said during a speech on the Senate floor. "And I have a message for cadet bone spurs: If you cared about our military, you'd stop baiting Kim Jong Un into a war that could put 85,000 American troops and millions of innocent civilians in danger."
God damn, that's beautiful.

Duckworth announced today she's pregnant.

Will be the first U.S. Senator to give birth while in office.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:12 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:08 pm

damn, that ratio

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:14 pm

Best player in little league, 3 year span.

rass · Post by **rass** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:12 pm

Off the first page!

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:32 pm

Rep Jim Himes is pulling no punches in calling out Ron Johnson and Mark Meadows. We need a hell of a lot more of this.

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:56 pm

rass wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:12 pm Off the first page!

Ought to make that sit-down interview pretty interesting...

Mueller: So....tried to have me fired, eh?
Trump: <flopsweat>I did what now?</flopsweat>

Trump is so amazingly stupid....he tried to cover up the obstruction of justice...by obstructing justice! And then he didn't even have balls to go the whole Nixon/Saturday Night Massacre route, and he backed down.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:14 pm

The Sybian wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:32 pm Rep Jim Himes is pulling no punches in calling out Ron Johnson and Mark Meadows. We need a hell of a lot more of this.

"Traded their integrity and their historical legacy for a momentary sugar high of supporting a president who would not support them in any instance whatsoever."

Sometimes you hear something that is just so succinct and so well put. Nice!

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:16 pm

rass wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:12 pm Off the first page!

This is the President of the United States...

Amid the first wave of news media reports that Mr. Mueller was examining a possible obstruction case, the president began to argue that Mr. Mueller had three conflicts of interest that disqualified him from overseeing the investigation, two of the people said. First, he claimed that a dispute years ago over fees at Trump National Golf Club in Sterling, Va., had prompted Mr. Mueller, the F.B.I. director at the time, to resign his membership. ...

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:23 pm

Like if the US were a town and all the other countries were towns, this would all be so deeply embarrassing and laughable.

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:24 pm

Of course its about club fees at his fucking golf course.

But don't worry....Conservative Boy Genius (and Harvard Law Grad) Ben Shapiro is on the case!

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:20 pm

As expected this story is at the top of Reddit and 78(!) times gilded. In a long, long 2+ years of my brain being saturated by daily r/politics links that jumps out at me.

I so fucking want this administration to burn. And I don't want it put out. We can just keep it off in the corner while humanity trucks on.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:31 pm

This is cartoonish bullshit.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:59 pm

Johnnie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:20 pm As expected this story is at the top of Reddit and 78(!) times gilded. In a long, long 2+ years of my brain being saturated by daily r/politics links that jumps out at me.

I don't understand the gilded thing, but I take it 78 is a huge number (81 at this moment). The brazen attempts to obstruct justice are astounding, and many times he flat out said it on national TV or on Twitter. Like someone on TV said, the comment in the Lester Holt interview is the type of thing a lawyer would find in a box of documents, and go running to his senior partner, and Trump admitted it on NBC. He is so fucking stupid, and benefits from the stupidity.

It's interesting looking at the news clip aggregating sites. Half of Fox News has turned on Trump and the GOP in their attacks on the FBI and the "Secret Society" scandal. Johnson looks like a complete moron after pushing this idiotic conspiracy theory, and it all crumbled around him. Unfortunately, there will be another sensational scandalous report tomorrow, and Johnson and the rest of the toadies will walk away unscathed. Devin Nunez started this whole fake scandal, FFS, how does he have an ounce of credibility left?

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:10 am

Up to 113 now.

Look at Reddit gold as a really strong upvote. Someone's comment or post was so good that you gave some money to Reddit to let a person know that they were on point with something.

The recipient gets some bonus Reddit stuff for a month because of it. https://www.reddit.com/gold/about/

(The money given to Reddit helps run the site. Reddit is famous for its minimalist design with advertisements that are sparse and unintrusive)

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:21 am

Trump's sniffling again. Telling the world that America is finally open for business while sniffing like a weirdo.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:42 am

Johnnie wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:10 am Up to 113 now.

Look at Reddit gold as a really strong upvote. Someone's comment or post was so good that you gave some money to Reddit to let a person know that they were on point with something.

The recipient gets some bonus Reddit stuff for a month because of it. https://www.reddit.com/gold/about/

(The money given to Reddit helps run the site. Reddit is famous for its minimalist design with advertisements that are sparse and unintrusive)

So people spent money to upvote a guy for linking a NYTimes article? I like reddit for e-mailing my brother, but beyond that, I just don't have the patience to navigate it.

rass · Post by **rass** » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:31 am

Deep in Clinton country, voters stand by their candidate

The pilings of long-gone piers still jut out of the murky Hudson River in New York County, N.Y., reminders of a shipping industry that’s all-but-vanished from the region. There’s almost no manufacturing left in the towering buildings at the southern end of the county where it once thrived. Throughout the area, large warehouses once used for trade have been torn down or repurposed...

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:10 pm

rass · Post by **rass** » Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:18 pm

Cartoonish bullshit!

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:39 pm

If I could give Swamp Gold to the one person on this board that I know reads my posts, it would have been Syb.

:-(

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:03 pm

Johnnie wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:39 pm If I could give Swamp Gold to the one person on this board that I know reads my posts, it would have been Syb.

:-(

I'll accept real gold.

I gotta say Johnnie, you have been crushing it in the political threads for years. It's funny looking back 10+ years at the kid who was self conscious about not going to college, or looking back 3 years at the guy who claimed to not follow politics, and now read your insightful takes.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:35 pm

So, you're saying that you DO read them sometimes?

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:50 pm

The problem is this shit is crack to me. I have no idea why. It probably started once Obama became president. I was radicalized by Swamp Leftists over Bush. (I kid, but I had never actually experienced thoughtful discussion of politics before here.)

And more starkly because the retardation level of Republicans amped up to a million and I could see in real time people compartmentalizing and experiencing cognitive dissonance in real time. I've always been quick to smack down hypocrisy. Now it was everywhere. White people shouldn't be this mad over anything ever. Maybe OJ, but that's it.

It bugs me out because I learned about this shit in school. Dynasties existing. Dynasties falling. The reasons behind the why and how. And there was always this thing about America that was exceptional. Three branches of government that included a bicameral congressional body, 9 judges, and a singular person to guide. It was created under the pretense that no one is greater than the other two and that institutional bureaucracy is embedded to prevent total system failure.

But what we see is failure all around without consequence because of greed and corruption. I always felt that the government was there as a cover for all. But, now that I'm an adult, I see that's all bullshit. Any attempt to stop it is met with you getting hammered because the money is there to dictate otherwise.

Progress should be easy. It really should. People make laws. And people can actually get work done if they are motivated. But self interest finds a way. And when billions and billions of dollars are at stake, that takes precedence.

The microcosm for me is the the Electoral College. That fucking thing needs to go. It probably kinda worked when the country was half its size, had more political parties, and a fraction of the population. But now it's old tech that needs a refresh. But if it insulates power and props up greed, it won't.

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:49 am

Johnnie wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:50 pm The microcosm for me is the the Electoral College. That fucking thing needs to go. It probably kinda worked when the country was half its size, had more political parties, and a fraction of the population. But now it's old tech that needs a refresh. But if it insulates power and props up greed, it won't.

There needs to be something but straight up popular vote though. Candidates will basically hit NY, CA, TX, FL and say fuck all to everyone else. Flyover states are in a tizzy now when IA really doesn't mean shit, well.

(I'd also like to get rid of IA and NH as the first vetting of the candidates. Let's get someplace a tad more diverse, eh?

TT2.0 · Post by **TT2.0** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:33 am

Rush2112 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:49 am
Johnnie wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:50 pm The microcosm for me is the the Electoral College. That fucking thing needs to go. It probably kinda worked when the country was half its size, had more political parties, and a fraction of the population. But now it's old tech that needs a refresh. But if it insulates power and props up greed, it won't.
There needs to be something but straight up popular vote though. Candidates will basically hit NY, CA, TX, FL and say fuck all to everyone else. Flyover states are in a tizzy now when IA really doesn't mean shit, well.

(I'd also like to get rid of IA and NH as the first vetting of the candidates. Let's get someplace a tad more diverse, eh?

my question becomes...if enough voters live in these areas to pull an entire election, why not say fuck iowa and new hampshire and go to a straight popular vote? my vote has literally never mattered because I live in Texas which has been red since i was born...it would mean a lot more if my vote counted. honestly winning an electoral college but losing a popular vote shouldnt happen...my vote should be counted the same as someone in ohio or florida, and it just doesnt. more people would vote and would feel like their vote mattered if they actually mattered...even if all my vote did was cancel out a vote in bumfuck nebraska i would still feel better about it.

Avram · Post by **Avram** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:33 am

The voting BS is even worse when you see that voter suppression is getiing worse in an effort to disenfranchise poor and minorities, the shit with gerrymandering and now the Alabam State Senate saying we will never have a democrat elected again by putting special elections fopr the US Senate in their senate (something that corrected by a Constitutional Amendment).

I am really hoping that Democratic challenger to Paul Ryan unseats him in November (or better yet, he loses in the primary to that anti-Semitic bigot Nehlen who will then get annihilated in the fall.