The Swamp

I don't know why this wouldn't be a matter for the new Fulton County district attorney.



She's on the left. Although it would be more fun for Shaq to lead the prosecution.

tennbengal wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:29 am

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:39 am

tennbengal wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:13 pm It's illegal.

But, and once again, laws are only words on a piece of paper. If no one will obey them or enforce them, they are meaningless.

In all honesty, I don’t see how anyone could prosecute that without evidence that Trump knew the stuff he was saying is false. In the words used on the call, Trump is telling Raffensperger to *correct* fraud, not commit fraud.

Like so much of what Trump and the Rs are doing, this is a breach of the fundamental principles of democracy ... but probably doesn’t violate any written laws.

(Takes gun to store - holds it up at clerk)

"YOU HAVE MY MONEY IN THAT REGISTER. GIVE IT"

(in all honesty, can't prosecute he thought money was his)

At least in Utah, robbery is defined as using force or fear to take property from another person’s possession. So no, thinking the money is yours isn’t a defense to robbery.

(FWIW, an honest belief about ownership is a defense to theft.)

The election fraud statute itself requires “knowing” that what you’re asking someone to do is fraudulent. So knowledge isn’t even a defense; it’s an element of the crime. There’s no f’ing way you could prove that against Trump beyond a reasonable doubt. At least not based on the tape.

No word yet from Shaq, whose silence is disappointing.

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:11 am

tennbengal wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:29 am

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:39 am

tennbengal wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:13 pm It's illegal.

But, and once again, laws are only words on a piece of paper. If no one will obey them or enforce them, they are meaningless.

In all honesty, I don’t see how anyone could prosecute that without evidence that Trump knew the stuff he was saying is false. In the words used on the call, Trump is telling Raffensperger to *correct* fraud, not commit fraud.

Like so much of what Trump and the Rs are doing, this is a breach of the fundamental principles of democracy ... but probably doesn’t violate any written laws.

(Takes gun to store - holds it up at clerk)

"YOU HAVE MY MONEY IN THAT REGISTER. GIVE IT"

(in all honesty, can't prosecute he thought money was his)

At least in Utah, robbery is defined as using force or fear to take property from another person’s possession. So no, thinking the money is yours isn’t a defense to robbery.

(FWIW, an honest belief about ownership is a defense to theft.)

The election fraud statute itself requires “knowing” that what you’re asking someone to do is fraudulent. So knowledge isn’t even a defense; it’s an element of the crime. There’s no f’ing way you could prove that against Trump beyond a reasonable doubt. At least not based on the tape.

I mean, isn't that what got OJ?

that and a judge and jury that want to convict.

Fulton County judges are elected, and as for the jury pool.....good luck Donald.

Giff wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:30 am I mean, isn't that what got OJ?

Yup. Armed robbery and kidnapping.

Prosecutors said Simpson's ownership of the memorabilia was irrelevant; it was still a crime to try to take things by force.

Sooo, Tuesday in Washington... Batshit crazy day? Or... Don’t believe the hype?

And, in Georgia... are they going to take a week to count all the mail-in votes? Will the the R’s try to claim victory when the walk-up votes favor them? And, claim fraud when the mailed ballots don’t?

Yes, it will look the same, because Election Day and early in-person votes will be counted first, and mail-in votes will take longer. Probably not as long as in November because there are fewer mail-in votes, but more than a day for sure. I would look out for whether Election Day turnout, which we'll know tomorrow night, is at or higher than the 1M who voted on Election Day in November. If it is lower than 1M, the Democrats can win. If it is much lower, they will win.

Rex wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:44 pm Yes, it will look the same, because Election Day and early in-person votes will be counted first, and mail-in votes will take longer. Probably not as long as in November because there are fewer mail-in votes, but more than a day for sure. I would look out for whether Election Day turnout, which we'll know tomorrow night, is at or higher than the 1M who voted on Election Day in November. If it is lower than 1M, the Democrats can win. If it is much lower, they will win.

In GA, can they begin processing mail-in ballots ahead of time? Or does the processing have to wait until polls close tomorrow?

Process, yes. Count them, no. The process of checking for a valid signature, and then detaching the signature from the ballot, can be done early. There are already almost a million processed ballots. By my count, there are likely to be up to 150,000 more. The problem is that these 150,000 are concentrated in just a few counties, and the work to process them is labor-intensive.

sancarlos wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:17 pm Sooo, Tuesday in Washington... Batshit crazy day? Or... Don’t believe the hype?

I think people would be well served to stay away from DC and let the MAGA heads wander around doing whatever they are going to do and avoid any confrontations. I am gonna go with, not crazy, because people will steer clear for the most part.

tennbengal wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:56 pm

sancarlos wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:17 pm Sooo, Tuesday in Washington... Batshit crazy day? Or... Don’t believe the hype?

I think people would be well served to stay away from DC and let the MAGA heads wander around doing whatever they are going to do and avoid any confrontations. I am gonna go with, not crazy, because people will steer clear for the most part.

I support what Antifa does for the most part but I hope they just let these turds have the city to themselves Wednesday.

So basically when Trump does something so blatantly obvious as 'bad' and 'illegal', the immediate and technical defense of it is anosognosia-based affluenza.

Got it.

Can't be a coup. He's just so delusional he doesn't understand being wronged.

brian wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:46 pm

tennbengal wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:56 pm

sancarlos wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:17 pm Sooo, Tuesday in Washington... Batshit crazy day? Or... Don’t believe the hype?

I think people would be well served to stay away from DC and let the MAGA heads wander around doing whatever they are going to do and avoid any confrontations. I am gonna go with, not crazy, because people will steer clear for the most part.

I support what Antifa does for the most part but I hope they just let these turds have the city to themselves Wednesday.

Looking forward to the zero arrests made on Y'all Qaeda despite brandishing weapons in an area of the country where open carry is very illegal.

Johnnie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:49 pm
Looking forward to the zero arrests made on Y'all Qaeda despite brandishing weapons in an area of the country where open carry is very illegal.

They are the Law and Order people, so if they do it, clearly it's legal.

DC doesn't fuck around with weapons. Be very surprised if there aren't arrests if they are dumb enough to carry on Wednesday.

Just an image....

Plot twist: it's a bunch of active duty military that are being forced to stay there during a training event in the UK.

#StayWoke

Let's break this down Sesame Street style says GA...

The Sybian wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:53 pm

Johnnie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:49 pm
Looking forward to the zero arrests made on Y'all Qaeda despite brandishing weapons in an area of the country where open carry is very illegal.

They are the Law and Order people, so if they do it, clearly it's legal.

What's a "high capacity firearm magazine"?

A standard 30 round magazine for an AR-15?

Just call it that. "High capacity," to me as a gun owner, is >30 rounds. But overall it just means you reload less.

The more concerning thing would be that he's in possession of a rifle that is automatic versus semiautomatic. Then the amount of rounds per magazine is gravely concerning.

Regardless, it's heartening to see arrests of these fuck heads. Can't wait for Ms. Boebert to get in trouble.

Johnnie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:46 pm

Regardless, it's heartening to see arrests of these fuck heads. Can't wait for Ms. Boebert to get in trouble.

I love these States' Rights Conservatives. States get to choose, but she insists on illegally carrying her gun in DC, because "they don't know how we live in Colorado." Yeah, well, well you're in DC you aren't in Colorado, so you can't carry your fucking gun in DC.

I don't know why I bother watching news clips anymore. It's pure insanity and theatre from the GOP. All of the GOP Congressmen who still say they are going to challenge the Electoral College vote have shifted to the weaselly argument of "my constituents believe there was fraud so I need to fight for their beliefs." What the fuck? They only believe it because you, Trump, and the RW media have been lying to them. These assholes used to say there was fraud, now they say people think there was fraud. FFS!

One interesting note, even the pundits who were fighting for Trump a few weeks ago have turned. Geraldo was screaming at Charlie Kirk that the GOP and Trump are full of shit, and he just feels bad for his friend Donald because everyone is allowing him to live in a delusion and think he can still win. Geraldo beautifully shot down the "Republicans believe it's fraud" line by screaming "they believe it because of propaganda! You and the President lied to them, and they believe you." I saw the Fox and Friends crew going off on pro-Trump people saying they have no basis to fight it, and there is no evidence and they are subverting Democracy. Bret Baier took Hawley to school. Hawley said Congress has the duty to fight this based on "some statute" from the 1800s. Baier named the statute, the year, what it says exactly, and why it absolutely give Congress no authority. Hawley cited an example of one election, and Baier immediately shut him down saying three states failed to certify that year, so Congress had to determine for those states, not overturn their certification.

The weirdest was (no surprise) Lou Dobbs. I rarely click on his clips, because he is fucking nuts so far removed from reality I can't comprehend how he has a show. He used to be somewhat sane. Anyways, the headline said Dobbs said there is absolutely no evidence of fraud. His whole argument, "it's been 8 weeks and Trump has failed to show any evidence of the fraud of the fraud EVERYONE knows happened. Why can't they show the fraud, we all know it happened "right in front of our eyes." All GOP who refuse to overthrow Democracy without contrary to evidence are RINOs who need to die. We have no election integrity, "that's how the Dems want it!" Didn't the Dems spend 4 years passing election security Bills in the House and Mitch refused to allow a vote on any of them? Dems have been screaming for 4 years that our elections aren't safe, all of Trump's appointees in Intel and DHS have been saying there are major threats from foreign countries, yet Republicans refused to take action to protect the voting process. Now it's Dems fault, meanwhile they have no evidence, it just is a fact that massive fraud occurred.

And after all the shit the GA SoS is dealing with, including death threats, every RW pundit calling him the devil when he was a huge pro-Trump Patriot 2 months ago, someone asked if he would still vote for Trump after all he's been through, and his response was "I'm a Republican, and I support Republicans." They kept pushing, "how could you vote for Trump after this" and he said, "well, Trump isn't running right now." FFS, admit your party is a dirty fucking scam hellbent on power even if it means blowing up the entire fucking system. Cowards.

So Lou Dobbs’ argument is that since Trump hasn’t shown evidence of fraud, that absence IS the evidence that there was a fraud?

God, fuck these people so, so much.

Johnnie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:46 pm
Regardless, it's heartening to see arrests of these fuck heads. Can't wait for Ms. Boebert to get in trouble.

They lap her shit up there on the western slope though.

Trump finally broke Daniel Dale...

psunate77 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:37 pm

You need to eat a bag of dicks now.

This family sure loves its makeup.

L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:16 pm So Lou Dobbs’ argument is that since Trump hasn’t shown evidence of fraud, that absence IS the evidence that there was a fraud?

God, fuck these people so, so much.

Actually, no. He blames Trump's lawyers for incompetence in not showing any evidence. But the lack of evidence means nothing, because WE ALL KNOW there was fraud, so that is the starting point, and any evidence to the contrary should be disregarded.

Johnnie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:46 pm What's a "high capacity firearm magazine"?

A standard 30 round magazine for an AR-15?

Just call it that. "High capacity," to me as a gun owner, is >30 rounds. But overall it just means you reload less.

The more concerning thing would be that he's in possession of a rifle that is automatic versus semiautomatic. Then the amount of rounds per magazine is gravely concerning.

Regardless, it's heartening to see arrests of these fuck heads. Can't wait for Ms. Boebert to get in trouble.

30 bullets is fucking high capacity. We keep hearing about how guns are important for the right of self-defense, but who gets attacked by 30 people?

Johnnie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:46 pm What's a "high capacity firearm magazine"?

A standard 30 round magazine for an AR-15?

Just call it that. "High capacity," to me as a gun owner, is >30 rounds. But overall it just means you reload less.

The more concerning thing would be that he's in possession of a rifle that is automatic versus semiautomatic. Then the amount of rounds per magazine is gravely concerning.

Regardless, it's heartening to see arrests of these fuck heads. Can't wait for Ms. Boebert to get in trouble.

Like I said, DC doesn't play when it comes to possession. And they have no problem arresting protestors.

This idea that these guys are gonna come into the city and just run rampant is ridiculous fearmongering. (not directed at you, J).

L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:16 pm So Lou Dobbs’ argument is that since Trump hasn’t shown evidence of fraud, that absence IS the evidence that there was a fraud?

God, fuck these people so, so much.

This whole “there must be fraud” thing is infuriatingly dumb. Trump only got 46% of the vote in 2016. He only won because the non-Trump vote (73 million votes?) was split. This time the non-Trump vote wasn’t split. So duh, of course Trump lost.

Put another way, he was opposed by over half the voters in 2016 ... his disapproval was over 50 percent his entire term ... and then he was opposed by over half the voters again. Duh.

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:06 am

Johnnie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:46 pm What's a "high capacity firearm magazine"?

A standard 30 round magazine for an AR-15?

Just call it that. "High capacity," to me as a gun owner, is >30 rounds. But overall it just means you reload less.

The more concerning thing would be that he's in possession of a rifle that is automatic versus semiautomatic. Then the amount of rounds per magazine is gravely concerning.

Regardless, it's heartening to see arrests of these fuck heads. Can't wait for Ms. Boebert to get in trouble.

Like I said, DC doesn't play when it comes to possession. And they have no problem arresting protestors.

This idea that these guys are gonna come into the city and just run rampant is ridiculous fearmongering. (not directed at you, J).

Hopefully, this proves true when they are majority white.

Lots and lots of white people get arrested. I understand the sentiment, but I've seen a lot of protests down there where it's mostly pre-Antifa (and currently) where the folks getting zip tied and thrown in the vans are decidedly not POC.

I'm actually pretty shocked more folks weren't arrested this summer. DC police don't have a great reputation on this front. I could dig up some old City Paper stories about their draconian behavior, but I'm rushed at work today. I think the current mayor worked well with the police chief to get things right, because in the 2000s, it was pretty bad.

He's gonna just dump this all on Pence, huh?