NCAA College Hoops 2016/2017

Post by **Shirley** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:56 pm

UVA lost to Nova at the buzzer. They had that game, too. UVA led almost the entire game, and was up by as much as 13 in the second half. Nova's big shooters, Hart and Jenkins, finally got hot late and hit three straight threes (the first for either of them) to get them back in the game.

It didn't help that Villanova was called for 2 fouls in the entire second half, none in the final 12 minutes. UVA shot only 3 free throws in the entire game, none in the second half. Nova shot 24 free throws.

You might say that's because UVA shot a lot of threes, but UVA shot 18 to Nova's 16.

Oh well. It was damn near a huge win. Still, Virginia played very well and it was a very entertaining, and mostly meaningless, game.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:11 pm

3 FT is a ton for a Villanova opponent.

Post by **brian** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:38 pm

Northwestern ranked for only the second time in school history. At 18-4, if they can win go .500 for the rest of the regular season should make their first NCAA tournament in school history. (Yes, Northwestern has NEVER played in the NCAA Tournament.)

Post by **Shirley** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:28 am

brian wrote:Northwestern ranked for only the second time in school history. At 18-4, if they can win go .500 for the rest of the regular season should make their first NCAA tournament in school history. (Yes, Northwestern has NEVER played in the NCAA Tournament.)

I think we can officially bump Chris Collins above former teammate Jeff Capel in the Next Duke Head Coach rankings.

Post by **brian** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:09 am

It just blows my mind that Northwestern basically plays in Chicago with all of the prep talent there and has never made an NCAA tourney. You'd have to think they would have made a couple by accident at least.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:15 am

brian wrote:It just blows my mind that Northwestern basically plays in Chicago with all of the prep talent there and has never made an NCAA tourney. You'd have to think they would have made a couple by accident at least.

Yep, and it isn't the academics issue for a small-roster sport like basketball. Duke occasionally does well.

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:44 pm

So officials for last night's duke v. ND game left something to be desired. But I found the espn camera work interesting they had a few different angles than I am used to seeing and actually were nice addition (which is often rare when they mess with camera coverage for games).

Post by **brian** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:40 pm

Marcus Keene is a bad man. Three pointer to beat your hated rival and finish a 35-point night and an 18-point second half comeback.

That's a McGuirk Arena record crowd chanting M-V-P as he hits it.

Post by **Shirley** » Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:39 pm

It's official. I hate Syracuse.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:24 pm

"I hate this shit" chapter 147. St. Bonaventure has the ball, down 2 to VCU, the clock about to run out. With about one second left in the game, guard launches a 3-pointer - it's good! Fans storm the court. But, wait! Refs say there is still 0.4 seconds left, and call a technical foul on the Bonnies because of the fans' action. VCU hits technical foul shot and game goes to overtime.

I don't care if that's what the rules say, imho, the refs suck for calling the technical.

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:50 pm

This thing with Rick Barry having another kid playing college ball is some Grade-A weird shit, why is ESPN soft pedaling this?

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:19 pm

U.K. Has regressed so badly.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:23 pm

sancarlos wrote:I don't care if that's what the rules say, imho, the refs suck for calling the technical.

"By rule, that's an administrative technical. We brought that to the attention of the officials, and they called it," Wade said.

How can you read that and not mimic it in the nerd voice? I guess it's an overall good for the conference in terms of possibly saving an at-large, but that's just so, so lame.

DSafetyGuy · Post by **DSafetyGuy** » Sun Feb 05, 2017 4:05 pm

Shirley wrote:It's official. I hate Syracuse.

The post-game quotes made it appear that the halftime adjustment was to spread out and drive on isolation instead of screening, which is what they did in the tourney last year, too. That is an odd weakness to have with a great defense.

Post by **Shirley** » Sun Feb 05, 2017 4:17 pm

DSafetyGuy wrote:
Shirley wrote:It's official. I hate Syracuse.
The post-game quotes made it appear that the halftime adjustment was to spread out and drive on isolation instead of screening, which is what they did in the tourney last year, too. That is an odd weakness to have with a great defense.

That's exactly what they did. They played almost a pro-style offense of isolations. They moved the other players far enough away from the ball where it was hard to give help. And the refs established that they were going to call fouls on drives, so 'Cuse went to the line a bunch in the second half.

Essentially, there are three ways to beat the packline:

1. Get out in transition so you can score before the D is set. Much easier said than done, because UVA works very hard to get back after missed shots (they rarely send more than 1 or 2 guys to the offensive glass). The way to make this work is with your defense - scramble and press to force turnovers. Normally, UVA is very good at NOT turning it over (28th best in the country).

2. Have a shooter, usually a big three or stretch four, who can hit shots with hands in his face. There aren't a lot of guys like this in college. Sometimes guys get hot though - this is how UVA lost to Florida State (Dwayne Bacon went 6-6 on mostly-contested threes in the second half) and Pitt (Jamel Artis did a great Bacon impersonation).

3. Have guards who are quick enough to attack off the dribble and can finish in traffic. Some teams create these spaces by running a weave up top to cause the D to move around a lot. The other way is what Syracuse did - just spread your guys way out and attack.

Syracuse was successful at both 1 and 3 in the second half yesterday. They forced turnovers by really extending their zone and UVA was just way too lethargic. I think they got complacent due to a lot of good looks, particularly in the first half. By trying to be patient, they got themselves in tough spots - Syracuse just had so much more energy.

For 3, UVA just took too long to adjust by moving their off-ball players a bit further inside. It helped Cuse that they have three guys who can attack that way AND can shoot well enough that you can't just ignore the off-ball players.

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:06 pm

Good news in Shirley land
Mangok Mathiang and Deng Adel suspended for tonight game v. UVA. Also missing Quentin Snider and Tony Hicks.

Post by **Shirley** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:31 pm

I saw that. It is good for UVA, but honestly, in most cases I'd rather face the full squad. Big game for the ACC title race either way!

Post by **Shirley** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:49 pm

Louisville leaned from Syracuse. They aren't running pure isos, but they are spreading out and running weaves. No ball screens, but tons of side to side movement and the ball never stops.

Tony Bennett's got some things to work on.

Post by **Shirley** » Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:11 am

Shirley wrote:Tony Bennett's got some things to work on.

Mission accomplished. UVA dominated the second half and won by 16. In Louisville's four years in the ACC, they've suffered three losses of 15+ points. All three have been to Virginia.

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:57 am

Georgetown's bus in accident on way to Villanova (no G-town injuries).
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc- ... bb3ff56d19

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:37 pm

I wonder how long an Alabama vs. South Carolina basketball game would have to go on before I felt compelled to watch.

Post by **brian** » Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:02 pm

If Marcus Keene scores 10 more points this season he breaks Dan Majerle's single-season scoring record for Central Michigan. CMU is guaranteed a minimum of 8 more games.

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:56 pm

RIP Marcus Keene's knee with 18:07 left in first half of his next game.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:20 am

Tough night for St. Louis University hoops. They lost a road game to St. Bonaventure, then got stranded at the arena because their team bus driver got drunk and drove off without them. She was arrested 40 miles away, after the police briefly had to chase the bus on the highway.

Post by **brian** » Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:54 am

Joe K wrote:...their team bus driver got drunk and drove off without them.

As one does from time to time.

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:04 am

How about VCU's week. After the security guard technical....look what happened last night
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc- ... ba22c97853

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:16 am

That's a pretty clever play.

Post by **Shirley** » Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:40 am

That play has been around forever (we tried it on a team when I was 15). I'm not sure I've ever seen it work. Usually refs know what you're up to and don't call it even if the guy does run the pick over.

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:35 pm

Shirley wrote:That play has been around forever (we tried it on a team when I was 15). I'm not sure I've ever seen it work. Usually refs know what you're up to and don't call it even if the guy does run the pick over.

Is it a foul if the man who blows up the pick doesn't see it? In lacrosse you only call a foul if the man getting picked sees the pick and then crushes him. If the guy getting picked does not see it, no foul

Post by **brian** » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:36 pm

Mark Titus on Marcus Keene.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:41 pm

I have no idea why I was viewing that like a charge ... I guess maybe it was bullshit.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:04 pm

I am going to root against VCU for the foreseeable future, now. Two bullshit wins imho.

Post by **Shirley** » Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:59 pm

wlu_lax6 wrote:
Shirley wrote:That play has been around forever (we tried it on a team when I was 15). I'm not sure I've ever seen it work. Usually refs know what you're up to and don't call it even if the guy does run the pick over.
Is it a foul if the man who blows up the pick doesn't see it? In lacrosse you only call a foul if the man getting picked sees the pick and then crushes him. If the guy getting picked does not see it, no foul

You know, I'm not sure. They do usually call a foul if you run over a guy setting a pick. I'm not sure if intent has anything to do with it. I don't think you're allowed to plow over anyone who's established for any reason.

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:02 am

Shirley wrote:
wlu_lax6 wrote:
Shirley wrote:That play has been around forever (we tried it on a team when I was 15). I'm not sure I've ever seen it work. Usually refs know what you're up to and don't call it even if the guy does run the pick over.
Is it a foul if the man who blows up the pick doesn't see it? In lacrosse you only call a foul if the man getting picked sees the pick and then crushes him. If the guy getting picked does not see it, no foul
You know, I'm not sure. They do usually call a foul if you run over a guy setting a pick. I'm not sure if intent has anything to do with it. I don't think you're allowed to plow over anyone who's established for any reason.

I think it was a good call and it's a valid play if someone is trying to defend the inbounder who can run up and down the baseline. It certainly wasn't a flop.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:50 am

Giff wrote:
Shirley wrote:
wlu_lax6 wrote:
Shirley wrote:That play has been around forever (we tried it on a team when I was 15). I'm not sure I've ever seen it work. Usually refs know what you're up to and don't call it even if the guy does run the pick over.
Is it a foul if the man who blows up the pick doesn't see it? In lacrosse you only call a foul if the man getting picked sees the pick and then crushes him. If the guy getting picked does not see it, no foul
You know, I'm not sure. They do usually call a foul if you run over a guy setting a pick. I'm not sure if intent has anything to do with it. I don't think you're allowed to plow over anyone who's established for any reason.
I think it was a good call and it's a valid play if someone is trying to defend the inbounder who can run up and down the baseline. It certainly wasn't a flop.

It's a valid play but I think it's a terrible call. Absent intent to cause contact I don't think the defender should ever be called for running into the screener and even then probably only if he throws an elbow or forearm up. I also suspect the screener flopped to draw attention to the contact.

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:42 am

Disagree. You are taught from an early age that you should be aware of screens and you are never allowed to just go through the screener instead of going over or behind. The fact that it's underneath the opponent's basket shouldn't matter.

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:42 am

Joe K wrote:
Giff wrote:
Shirley wrote:
wlu_lax6 wrote:
Shirley wrote:That play has been around forever (we tried it on a team when I was 15). I'm not sure I've ever seen it work. Usually refs know what you're up to and don't call it even if the guy does run the pick over.
Is it a foul if the man who blows up the pick doesn't see it? In lacrosse you only call a foul if the man getting picked sees the pick and then crushes him. If the guy getting picked does not see it, no foul
You know, I'm not sure. They do usually call a foul if you run over a guy setting a pick. I'm not sure if intent has anything to do with it. I don't think you're allowed to plow over anyone who's established for any reason.
I think it was a good call and it's a valid play if someone is trying to defend the inbounder who can run up and down the baseline. It certainly wasn't a flop.
It's a valid play but I think it's a terrible call. Absent intent to cause contact I don't think the defender should ever be called for running into the screener and even then probably only if he throws an elbow or forearm up. I also suspect the screener flopped to draw attention to the contact.

Right. Here is the rule in the NCA

NCAA Lacrosse Rules wrote:Deliberate and excessively violent contact made by a defensive player against an offensive player who has established a screening position.

I don't know basketball rule book that well but here is what I found under incidental contact section

NCAA Hoops Rule Book wrote:Art. 4. A player who is screened within his visual field shall be expected to
avoid contact with the screener by stopping or avoiding the screener.
Art. 5. A player who is screened outside his visual field may make inadvertent
contact with the screener. Such contact shall be incidental, provided that the
screener is not displaced when he has the ball.
Art. 6. When a player approaches an opponent from behind or a position
from which the player has no reasonable chance to play the ball without
making contact with the opp

Section on screens

NCAA Hoops Rule Book wrote: Section 34. Screen
Art. 1. A legal screen is action by any player, offensive or defensive, with
or without the ball, which, without causing contact, delays or prevents an
opponent from reaching a desired position.
Art. 2. In establishing and maintaining legal screening tactics, the screener shall:
a. Stay within his vertical plane with a stance no wider than shoulder
width apart and shall not lean into the path of an opponent or extend
hips into that path, even though the feet are stationary.
b. Not be required to face in any particular direction at any time.
Art. 3. A player shall not:
a. Cause contact by setting a screen outside the visual field of a stationary
opponent that does not allow this opponent a normal step to move.
b. Make contact with the opponent when setting a screen within the
visual field of that opponent.
c. Take a position so close to a moving opponent that this opponent
cannot avoid contact by stopping or changing direction.
Art. 4. No player, while moving, shall set a screen that causes contact and
delays an opponent from reaching a desired position.
Art. 5. When both opponents are moving in exactly the same path and
direction and the screener slows down or stops and contact results, the trailing
player shall be responsible for such contact.
Art. 6. No player shall use arm(s), hand(s), hip(s) or shoulder(s) to force
through a screen or to hold or push the screener.
Art. 7. Screeners shall not line up next to each other within 6 feet of a
boundary line and parallel to it so that contact occurs.
a. Screeners shall be permitted to line up parallel to a boundary line
and next to each other without locking arms or grasping each other,

Charging is pretty cleanly described as what happened.

Post by **Shirley** » Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:03 am

Here's what happened tonight to London Perrantes's tie-breaking layup with 22 seconds left in overtime at Virginia Tech.

Yes, the fucking ball stopped on the back of the rim. Guess who won the game?

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:29 pm

So George Mason's 6'2" Point Guard is 14th in the nation when it comes to Rebounds...and he has a single dunk in his 4 years at Mason. He has more 10+ rebound games than games where he has taken a 3 point attempt
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc- ... b11164508c

Post by **Shirley** » Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:13 pm

NC State fired Mark Gottfried today. They're letting him finish out the season.

If you haven't been paying attention, State hasn't won since they upset Duke in Cameron (and Duke hasn't lost since then either). State starts a NBA top-three draft pick at point guard and runs at least 8-deep with solid, above average college players. They should be competing for first place in the ACC. Instead, they are near the cellar and are routinely getting blown out.