The Swamp

Posted: **Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:47 pm**

A_B wrote:There's a "statement" floating around on the tweeters purportedly form CK. but I can't see any confirmation that it came from his account so I'm not posting it yet.

NYT posted it, and it's certainly one of the better apologies that I've seen.

Posted: **Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:51 pm**

govmentchedda wrote:
A_B wrote:There's a "statement" floating around on the tweeters purportedly form CK. but I can't see any confirmation that it came from his account so I'm not posting it yet.

NYT posted it, and it's certainly one of the better apologies that I've seen.

It's pretty good though he doesn't actually say "I'm sorry".

Still, better than 99 percent of these assholes. I can't say I want to see his career destroyed forever, but I hope he takes a couple or three years and actually follows his words with some deeds. It's hard to say that he "hates women" considering he's an XP on two prominent TV shows run by women (and a sad irony would be if those shows with strong female voices were shut down because of backlash to him), but it's pretty obvious Pamela Adlon is going to have to fire him to keep Better Things on the air.

Posted: **Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:54 pm**

Ok. I hadn't seen it from a legit source just a screen cap. Hanks.

Posted: **Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:55 pm**

I had just blitzed through the last couple seasons of Louie a few weeks ago as they were leaving Netflix. It's always appeared to be autobiographical. I remember feeling serious discomfort when he tried to kiss Pamela, or really straight-up rape her, before they became sex-buddies. I cringe-laughed a little bit when she said "you can't even rape right.

And at that point I had already known of the whispers from Gawker/Jezebel. Remembering that just makes me feel nasty all over.

Posted: **Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:17 pm**

brian wrote:
govmentchedda wrote:
A_B wrote:There's a "statement" floating around on the tweeters purportedly form CK. but I can't see any confirmation that it came from his account so I'm not posting it yet.

NYT posted it, and it's certainly one of the better apologies that I've seen.

It's pretty good though he doesn't actually say "I'm sorry".

Still, better than 99 percent of these assholes. I can't say I want to see his career destroyed forever, but I hope he takes a couple or three years and actually follows his words with some deeds. It's hard to say that he "hates women" considering he's an XP on two prominent TV shows run by women (and a sad irony would be if those shows with strong female voices were shut down because of backlash to him), but it's pretty obvious Pamela Adlon is going to have to fire him to keep Better Things on the air.

Didn't notice that on my reading. Good point.

Posted: **Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:53 pm**

I didn't catch the no "I'm sorry" or "I apologize" on first reading either. I picked it up from the angry tweets about it. Still, that seems a bit petty and pedantic when he really did admit guilt, express remorse, and showed that he understood the hurt that he caused. Isn't that what an apology is all about? I'm not sure adding those two words would have made the criticizers any happier.

That said, he probably should have removed the list of stuff he's working/worked on. I get that he was trying to include those folks in his apology as well, but it can easily be interpreted as using the attention to promote his shows.

Hopefully Louis figures this shit out. He needs to just go away for a few years. Maybe find a way to use his money and influence (does he still have that?) to help women in comedy for a few years. Then, maybe try again. His comedy has always been focused around picking at scabs in his own life. This is a big one.

Posted: **Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:45 pm**

to say that there is a power dynamic is to say that in all cases if a boss does a sexual act with someone underneath them, even with oral consent (ha!) its automatically sexual abuse...shes not saying he threatened her or implied anything would happen to her job. i just have an issue with someone asking for consent, receiving consent, and then getting called an abuser after the fact. itjust seems....like bullshit. if you cant have sex with verbal consent, when can you have sex? now im NOT excusing the other instances...but the other women were by their own admission laughing while he did it, and stayed til he finished. why would he as a reasonable person assume that situation is not ok?? i guess you have to get women to sign a contract to jerk off in front of them? really what more was he supposed to do in this situation?

Posted: **Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:20 pm**

NOT jerked off in front of them?

Posted: **Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:43 pm**

bfj wrote:NOT jerked off in front of them?

if thats his fetish and he got consent why shouldnt he do it?

Posted: **Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:50 pm**

TT2.0 wrote:
bfj wrote:NOT jerked off in front of them?

if thats his fetish and he got consent why shouldnt he do it?

Non-disclosure agreements are a thing.

It's not like he's going to jail, right?

Posted: **Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:23 am**

NYT has the full list of all who have been accused of harassment from across the years over the political and entertainment/hollywood realms since the Weinstein story broke:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... stein.html

Posted: **Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:55 pm**

[double post]

Posted: **Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:57 pm**

TT2.0 wrote:
bfj wrote:NOT jerked off in front of them?

if thats his fetish and he got consent why shouldnt he do it?

When it is a work situation with a subordinate employee, it's never OK. Maybe if you are married first, then hire, but that is another set of potential problems. I've seen lawsuits where an employee consensually dated the boss for years, then when she broke it off and the boss tries to get back together, or fires the woman, or treats her differently, the man is open to liability bigly. Even when the subordinate seems to consent, or maybe even really consented, if a quid pro quo issue arises, there is major potential for liability. Not to mention, subordinate employees, usually women, may not verbally object, but silently endure the incident, while the man thinks she is into it. That is very common. So moral of the story, don't engage in sexual acts with or in front of a subordinate employee.

Posted: **Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:08 am**

The Sybian wrote:
TT2.0 wrote:
bfj wrote:NOT jerked off in front of them?

if thats his fetish and he got consent why shouldnt he do it?

When it is a work situation with a subordinate employee, it's never OK. Maybe if you are married first, then hire, but that is another set of potential problems. I've seen lawsuits where an employee consensually dated the boss for years, then when she broke it off and the boss tries to get back together, or fires the woman, or treats her differently, the man is open to liability bigly. Even when the subordinate seems to consent, or maybe even really consented, if a quid pro quo issue arises, there is major potential for liability. Not to mention, subordinate employees, usually women, may not verbally object, but silently endure the incident, while the man thinks she is into it. That is very common. So moral of the story, don't engage in sexual acts with or in front of a subordinate employee.

Finally. Being at the bottom of the totem pole pays off!

Posted: **Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:09 am**

Yeah. AB has been working with miners for years with no problems.

Posted: **Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:42 am**

I'd say that's awful but I'd like to tack on a funky coal medina joke so I'll just say "nice one!"

Posted: **Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:35 pm**

The Sybian wrote:
TT2.0 wrote:
bfj wrote:NOT jerked off in front of them?

if thats his fetish and he got consent why shouldnt he do it?

When it is a work situation with a subordinate employee, it's never OK. Maybe if you are married first, then hire, but that is another set of potential problems. I've seen lawsuits where an employee consensually dated the boss for years, then when she broke it off and the boss tries to get back together, or fires the woman, or treats her differently, the man is open to liability bigly. Even when the subordinate seems to consent, or maybe even really consented, if a quid pro quo issue arises, there is major potential for liability. Not to mention, subordinate employees, usually women, may not verbally object, but silently endure the incident, while the man thinks she is into it. That is very common. So moral of the story, don't engage in sexual acts with or in front of a subordinate employee.

i just dont think he did anything wrong or worth apologizing for...its two grown ass people, doijg sexual things which all parties say he got consent for prior to the jerking off. if he asks to jerkoff in front of you, and you say yes, you lose your right to play the victim. short of having them sign legal papers before they watch what else is he supposed to do? i get it, hes not supposed to ever be imvolved with a subordinate, which also means conversely he should never be involved with a boss, anx since he produces shit he shouldnt do it with another actor to be safe...this all just seems like so much bullshit. im not defending him becausw i like his comedy...i dont think hes that funny and his last special is shit...i just think this idea of ten years later being a victim after a consensual encounter is retarded as all hell

Posted: **Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:48 pm**

TT2.0 wrote:
The Sybian wrote:
TT2.0 wrote:
bfj wrote:NOT jerked off in front of them?

if thats his fetish and he got consent why shouldnt he do it?

When it is a work situation with a subordinate employee, it's never OK. Maybe if you are married first, then hire, but that is another set of potential problems. I've seen lawsuits where an employee consensually dated the boss for years, then when she broke it off and the boss tries to get back together, or fires the woman, or treats her differently, the man is open to liability bigly. Even when the subordinate seems to consent, or maybe even really consented, if a quid pro quo issue arises, there is major potential for liability. Not to mention, subordinate employees, usually women, may not verbally object, but silently endure the incident, while the man thinks she is into it. That is very common. So moral of the story, don't engage in sexual acts with or in front of a subordinate employee.

i just dont think he did anything wrong or worth apologizing for...its two grown ass people, doijg sexual things which all parties say he got consent for prior to the jerking off. if he asks to jerkoff in front of you, and you say yes, you lose your right to play the victim. short of having them sign legal papers before they watch what else is he supposed to do? i get it, hes not supposed to ever be imvolved with a subordinate, which also means conversely he should never be involved with a boss, anx since he produces shit he shouldnt do it with another actor to be safe...this all just seems like so much bullshit. im not defending him becausw i like his comedy...i dont think hes that funny and his last special is shit...i just think this idea of ten years later being a victim after a consensual encounter is retarded as all hell

The stuff I've read did not say that the victims consented to watch CK jerk off in front of them. At worst, they didn't say anything (because they were too stunned). That isn't consent, especially where CK had economic power over them.

Posted: **Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:50 pm**

Steve of phpBB wrote:
TT2.0 wrote:
The Sybian wrote:
TT2.0 wrote:
bfj wrote:NOT jerked off in front of them?

if thats his fetish and he got consent why shouldnt he do it?

When it is a work situation with a subordinate employee, it's never OK. Maybe if you are married first, then hire, but that is another set of potential problems. I've seen lawsuits where an employee consensually dated the boss for years, then when she broke it off and the boss tries to get back together, or fires the woman, or treats her differently, the man is open to liability bigly. Even when the subordinate seems to consent, or maybe even really consented, if a quid pro quo issue arises, there is major potential for liability. Not to mention, subordinate employees, usually women, may not verbally object, but silently endure the incident, while the man thinks she is into it. That is very common. So moral of the story, don't engage in sexual acts with or in front of a subordinate employee.

i just dont think he did anything wrong or worth apologizing for...its two grown ass people, doijg sexual things which all parties say he got consent for prior to the jerking off. if he asks to jerkoff in front of you, and you say yes, you lose your right to play the victim. short of having them sign legal papers before they watch what else is he supposed to do? i get it, hes not supposed to ever be imvolved with a subordinate, which also means conversely he should never be involved with a boss, anx since he produces shit he shouldnt do it with another actor to be safe...this all just seems like so much bullshit. im not defending him becausw i like his comedy...i dont think hes that funny and his last special is shit...i just think this idea of ten years later being a victim after a consensual encounter is retarded as all hell

The stuff I've read did not say that the victims consented to watch CK jerk off in front of them. At worst, they didn't say anything (because they were too stunned). That isn't consent, especially where CK had economic power over them.

all of the stuff i have readsaid he asked first..not one story said a woman ever said no, stop, dont, or i dont like this. at worsr to me its implied consent. find me someone who said no and then he did it anyway...then thats rapey and hes scum.

Posted: **Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:10 pm**

I think avoiding "implied consent" is more difficult for a woman at work than it is for a 7 foot tall dude in pretty much any non-weapon situation.

Posted: **Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:37 pm**

mister d wrote:I think avoiding "implied consent" is more difficult for a woman at work than it is for a 7 foot tall dude in pretty much any non-weapon situation.

Any 16 year old pretty much knows what is and isn't consent.

Posted: **Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:45 pm**

Pruitt wrote:
mister d wrote:I think avoiding "implied consent" is more difficult for a woman at work than it is for a 7 foot tall dude in pretty much any non-weapon situation.

Any 16 year old pretty much knows what is and isn't consent.

I would not make that assumption.

Posted: **Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:13 pm**

Given that "sitting through your boss jacking off" was labeled "implied consent", I'm with AB here.

Posted: **Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:13 pm**

I'd argue that it's the exact type of shit that has gotten a bunch of fucksticks off on technicalities. "She told me she was gonna fuck me that night but then she "fell asleep".

And it goes the other way too, a girl could absolutely have said those words as "flirting", but ended up feeling like she deserved it even if she changed her mind before it happened

Posted: **Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:49 pm**

The magary gq ck article is excellent.

Posted: **Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:52 pm**

A_B wrote:The magary gq article is excellent.

Don’t make statements like that without providing a fuckin link

Posted: **Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:58 pm**

sancarlos wrote:
A_B wrote:The magary gq article is excellent.

Don’t make statements like that without providing a fuckin link

I'm on my phone. Sry. I think a magary Gq Ck Google will work.

(Yup first link)

Posted: **Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:50 am**

Link.

Posted: **Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:52 am**

Totally forgot to do that this morning. Thanks, boss.

Posted: **Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:55 am**

Sorry. Shouldn't post while grumpy.

Posted: **Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:13 am**

sancarlos wrote:Sorry. Shouldn't post while grumpy.

It was good having you around. You will be missed.

Posted: **Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:50 pm**

Pruitt wrote:
mister d wrote:I think avoiding "implied consent" is more difficult for a woman at work than it is for a 7 foot tall dude in pretty much any non-weapon situation.

Any 16 year old pretty much knows what is and isn't consent.

I wish I had audio of some of the interviews I've conducted with guys accused of sexually harassing coworkers. I've heard some truly sick shit, and the guys genuinely have no idea how creepy they are. Sometimes it's cultural differences, sometimes socially awkward guys who are just clueless that they make women uncomfortable, but an overwhelming number are successful guys in B2B sales. I've seen a very distinct personality type in this role, and the guys are predators who feel entitled to grope and aggressively pursue female colleagues. Throw in frequent business trips and expensing drinking outings with clients, and some weird shit goes down. When you talk to these guys, who are highly successful sales guys and smooth talking sociopaths, the version of the story they try to sell is often horrific, and they have no concept they come across as sick fucks in their well-crafted versions.

I've also spoken with a lot of guys who still live in the Mad Men era, and don't understand that you can't grope "the girls" in the typing pool. I've worked for 2 lawyers in different firms who referred to the secretaries as "the girls," or "have your girl do that," never referring to them by name. I really wish I had a transcript of the calls from a CEO who hired his mistress to an executive level position. She broke it off a couple years later. They had a retreat at a ski lodge, and he thought it was appropriate to walk into her bedroom while she slept, and get into bed with her. He was dumbfounded that this wasn't OK, and he called by 5 or 6 times with hypotheticals, asking for advice on how he can bang her again, despite her defiance in continuing to tell him it's over and threatening to sue. It was insane.

Posted: **Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:55 am**

Yeah, maybe I was being a bit optimistic with that comment about 16 year olds.

Posted: **Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:35 am**

Al Franken being accused of groping someone now.

Posted: **Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:36 am**

brian wrote:Al Franken being accused of groping someone now.

Damn. I'd put him on my "please no" list.

Posted: **Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:37 am**

TOO LATE STEVE

Posted: **Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:46 am**

brian wrote:Al Franken being accused of groping someone now.

She has a picture. Jeez.

Posted: **Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:47 am**

I will admit, though, that my thoughts on whether he should resign depend in some part on whether a Dem or Republican replaces him.

This is why I can't get too sanctimonious about Republicans supporting Moore instead of a Democrat. Senate seats matter to millions and millions of people. If Franken resigning means millions lose their health insurance, then I don't want him to resign.

Posted: **Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:51 am**

Steve of phpBB wrote:I will admit, though, that my thoughts on whether he should resign depend in some part on whether a Dem or Republican replaces him.

This is why I can't get too sanctimonious about Republicans supporting Moore instead of a Democrat. Senate seats matter to millions and millions of people. If Franken resigning means millions lose their health insurance, then I don't want him to resign.

Minnesota's governor is a Democrat so presumably the replacement would be a Democrat.

Posted: **Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:56 am**

And if only to troll the GOP and the alt-right racists I hope if Franken does resign he appoints Ellison to the seat. (Also, Ellison is kind of a bad-ass so that's a win-win.)

The Swamp

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