Racism

[mister d]

I wish there would have been some deescalation used. I haven’t watched the video. I’m just not the type. At the same time, AB is correct in saying knives are no joke. Ex post facto you can slice it 100 ways, but at the end of the day, some more nuance helps and I wish someone didn’t have to die.

Also haven't watched and won't watch, but the same end point. If several cops charge with mace, tasers, batons, whatever, odds are very, very high that no one died yesterday. There are going to be instances where cops are justified in using lethal force because there were no other options, but there are just so many times where you can justify lethal force despite other options.

[sancarlos]

[mister d]

I'm sure I've done this here before, but google "Asbury Park Phillip Seidle" and tell me that officers "have no choice" or its all "split second decisions" rather than too many of them starting each shift with a mental hierarchy.

[EnochRoot]

O/T:

I can’t get past the question I have in my mind about the police:

What would John Q Cop have done when an officer is choking the life out of a subdued suspect?

Would he have intervened on behalf of Floyd, or would he be standing trial like the three ex-cops who face aiding and abetting murder charges?

Also, one (or two?) of the ex-cops, it was his first week on the job. The first week on the job, are you telling anyone to do anything? Chauvin was the senior, 20 years in the force. Wasn't the reason Chauvin was called in because the original two cops couldn't handle Floyd in the first place? I know I'd be standing trail right now if I were them.

Man...I dunno. I have a healthy (enough to get by) respect for authority, but I secretly despise it.

There's this one and there's also "What would have happened to a bystander who saved Floyd's life".

I probably would’ve been berating the bystanding officers.

[testuser2]

A few years ago we had a case where a white officer killed a black student on his front steps. He charged them with a knife after they visited his condo on a health check requested by his father. He has a history of mental health issues and previously threatened himself and others. The police had been there multiple times and his prior issues were known by the officers.

An investigation by the police found they acted properly. Currently the father is suing the city/police. There are protests every few weeks. Horrible situation. There could have been so many other ways to respond other than sending police. His father lives in town and made the call to the police. Why aren't there mental health or other services that could respond? Police can't be the only option.

[DSafetyGuy]

The biggest swing that (hopefully) happens in our lifetime is a) sending out officers fully trained on handling people that are mentally impaired, b) sending out unarmed professionals trained in this area and/or c) teaming up armed officers and unarmed trained professionals to handle these situations.

So, defunding the police.

Absolutely. I just wish it wasn't framed that way, because it causes unnecessary backlash.

It's rethinking how we "police" millions of situations in a way that de-escalates AND gets people the help they need.

I think that, since the horse has long since left the barn, those of us who support "defunding the police" have to be willing to explain it as many times as necessary to get people who are willing to listen to understand what it really means.

When my dad recently visited, he asked me what I thought about "cancel culture", specifically in the context of Dr. Seuss and eventually Mr. Potato Head. I focused on "it's actually consequence culture" for the first part (if you - as a celebrity/entertainer - or your business does racist things, don't be surprised if the public chooses to not support you/your business) and that "private companies are allowed to run their business as they deem best" for the second part. I know he's willing to listen to me, so I felt it was important to (over-)explain so he understood exactly what I meant.

No idea if it actually helped him understand/make his opinion, but doing my best to explain is all I could do.

[Johnnie]

I can't speak for all military training or even the culture of every service or the types of people that serve and their upbringing and personal biases, but it was drilled into our heads early and often that there's definitively a way to properly escalate based off of who the perceived threat is. Even to the detriment of the military members there.

The two times I've been through pre deployment training they put you on "patrol" on foot and go through this makeshift village.

Every time there's a dude with an AK-47 looking like a terrorist. And every time some rando military person from formation just runs up on him screaming and pointing his M4 not realizing is cultural to have an AK and that it's actually *not a threat* to just have a gun. I lost my shit on him because I was in command at the moment. But, me being me, I scared the shit out of everyone because of just how loud and short fused I got. The instructors weren't exactly mad, but they said I had to take it down a notch.

My counter is "don't put me blindly in a war like scenario with people pointing guns and expect me to be nice."

All that to say, I have no idea who joins the cops after the military, but it wouldn't hurt to find out.

And it also wouldn't hurt to have nationwide training for how to de-escalate situations and how to just deal with shit better.

[EdRomero]

Why aren't there mental health or other services that could respond? Police can't be the only option.

There's not enough funding right now to staff agencies getting kids out of abusive homes, or for helping parents desperately requesting for assistance for children going through trauma, so we are a long way from being able to get qualified services to respond to incidents.

[EdRomero]

And it also wouldn't hurt to have nationwide training for how to de-escalate situations and how to just deal with shit better.

Wouldn't hurt, but I'm guessing that most cops got some training on that, but their culture and biases just take over. Cops being personally liable for messing up and the culture of cops covering for other cops going away would suddenly make many cops much better at de-escalating situations.

[Reaper]

Its not a perfect comp, they rarely are, but the blanket "if these were two white girls in Princeton, NJ, no cop is shooting a kid" logic still stands. They, as a whole, are too willing to solve problems with gunfire knowing the aftermath so rarely affects them, atleast legally.

I think a lot of this comes down to a shocking lack of training in handling these situations. I haven't seen the video, so I won't comment, but from what I hear it's 10 seconds of video, and I'd wager if we had another camera with 5 minutes of video, we'd have a different view of the 10 second video.

I saw JHip's post on Facebook and commentary, and I had to restrain myself from yelling at everyone in that thread. I think JHip was was too flippant in blaming the cop making the victim a martyr, and the main antagonist was too assured in defending the cop, but I really wanted to go off on the woman who said the cop should have shot her in the leg. Imagine training cops to shoot for the legs? Go for the narrowest, most mobile target out there, especially when there are innocent bystanders around! LEOs are all taught to shoot for center mass. It's the biggest, most stabile target, and you are going to stop the suspect if you hit them. Shooting should ALWAYS be the last resort, but if you have to shoot, you need to stop the suspect quickly.

Same on the stuff with JHip. Couple people who are just straight up bootlickers and a couple people with good intentions but no idea how real life works.

There is no such thing as shoot to wound. It's bad practice and not taught anywhere. If you're shooting, you're shooting to down/kill. That's why I hate the "well why did the officer need to fire 13 rounds?" -- Go to the range sometime and shoot at something 20 feet away in a calm quiet situation and then tell me why.

However to jump into this where there seemed to be little to no de-escalation attempted, it was just "look, a threat, gun, bang".

It is unfair to analyze these ex post facto. I admit that. But this idea that the cop is a hero because he executed "a bad guy" is bullshit too. Imagine the beautiful headline if it didn't go this way. "Officer saves woman attacked with knife. Subdues attacker with only minor injuries to all." Why isn't that the headline we celebrate and strive for?

Holy fuck did that get bigger than I thought it would. I fucked up. I posted too quickly last night without enough information and then went to bed. Which probably made me sound flippant about the actual events or making a false equivalency. Maybe I should've deleted it in the morning once I saw the video, but it seemed to still be civil. I replied a few times, but then I had a lot of work to do today so I let it go. Then it went from like 10 comments to like 60 by the next time I checked. Then more work, then picking kids up from school, then more work once the wife got home. Now it's over a hundred. And still being added to as I write this. I want to leave it up so I'm not "silencing voices," but I'm done commenting on it because some of the people aren't worth my time (including the people I agree with). I'll just go back to posting on FB about stupid words that people say and being sarcastic. I much prefer interacting with the strangers on the internet here, and I'm glad I came back after my long hiatus.

[sancarlos]

Glad you came back, man

[sancarlos]

I can't speak for all military training or even the culture of every service or the types of people that serve and their upbringing and personal biases, but it was drilled into our heads early and often that there's definitively a way to properly escalate based off of who the perceived threat is. Even to the detriment of the military members there.

The two times I've been through pre deployment training they put you on "patrol" on foot and go through this makeshift village.

Every time there's a dude with an AK-47 looking like a terrorist. And every time some rando military person from formation just runs up on him screaming and pointing his M4 not realizing is cultural to have an AK and that it's actually *not a threat* to just have a gun. I lost my shit on him because I was in command at the moment. But, me being me, I scared the shit out of everyone because of just how loud and short fused I got. The instructors weren't exactly mad, but they said I had to take it down a notch.

My counter is "don't put me blindly in a war like scenario with people pointing guns and expect me to be nice."

All that to say, I have no idea who joins the cops after the military, but it wouldn't hurt to find out.

And it also wouldn't hurt to have nationwide training for how to de-escalate situations and how to just deal with shit better.

It’s good to have you around for the military vet perspective!

[Rush2112]

Why aren't there mental health or other services that could respond? Police can't be the only option.

Because their funding goes to buy the paramilitary equipment that nearly every police force has. My sister and a good friend both work in Public (mental) health. Both have crazy caseloads and are chronically underfunded. The friend used to work with DPD (Denver) and he says he was one of 5 for nearly a million people.

[Rush2112]

And it also wouldn't hurt to have nationwide training for how to de-escalate situations and how to just deal with shit better.

Wouldn't hurt, but I'm guessing that most cops got some training on that, but their culture and biases just take over. Cops being personally liable for messing up and the culture of cops covering for other cops going away would suddenly make many cops much better at de-escalating situations.

I've read that a lot of training for police is very much the opposite. There was some dude that made a mint of training that basically advocated for a shoot first (at any provocation) and ask questions later type of training. I don't know about it after getting the job, but I did research a number of police pre-training programmes at various community colleges around the country and the vast majority had 2 courses in psychology/mental health types of things. That's what I had to take for a History degree and I don't have to deal with situations where those things would be valuable.

[testuser2]

Why aren't there mental health or other services that could respond? Police can't be the only option.

Because their funding goes to buy the paramilitary equipment that nearly every police force has. My sister and a good friend both work in Public (mental) health. Both have crazy caseloads and are chronically underfunded. The friend used to work with DPD (Denver) and he says he was one of 5 for nearly a million people.

Exactly! And that's what I view as defunding the police. I have used this exact example a few times in conversations. Don't make police do things they aren't trained for and instead fund those areas that are understaffed. This also goes for the armed forces.

[sancarlos]

[DaveInSeattle]

C'mon everyone...don't you know that Michael Jordan and the 'Blade' movies solved racism?

[mister d]

[L-Jam3]

Damn. That's "Vince Carter over Frederic Weis"-level shit.

[EnochRoot]

Keith Boykin needs to learn to write better copy, because how he worded it gives credence to it all being a juxtaposition in the event cameraphones weren’t a thing.

The copy needs to indict the Minneapolis Police (John Elder for signing it) for preparing a piece of propaganda that flat-out lied about what happened.

[Johnnie]

Mondaire Jones is fucking awesome.

[DSafetyGuy]

This does not sound good (screen grab is from a Hampton Roads, Va. TV news reporter).

[Johnnie]

Holy fuck.

That sounds worse than Iraq or Afghanistan.

[Gunpowder]

Holy fuck.

That sounds worse than Iraq or Afghanistan.

Well yeah man there's rules in war.

[mister d]

This is fucking disgusting phrasing:

[govmentchedda]

Yep

[Johnnie]

Tuckems!

[wlu_lax6]

Jens Lehman....
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/56967418

Also generally have found Germany responds to this type of stupidity faster and better than US.

[The Sybian]

Jens Lehman....
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/56967418

Also generally have found Germany responds to this type of stupidity faster and better than US.

They have a legacy they are trying to move away from.

[wlu_lax6]

Jens Lehman....
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/56967418

Also generally have found Germany responds to this type of stupidity faster and better than US.

They have a legacy they are trying to move away from.

I guess it is the "trying to move away from" that differentiates them

[The Sybian]

Jens Lehman....
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/56967418

Also generally have found Germany responds to this type of stupidity faster and better than US.

They have a legacy they are trying to move away from.

I guess it is the "trying to move away from" that differentiates them

Ha, very true.

[DaveInSeattle]

[Pruitt]

WHY CONFEDERATE LIES LIVE ON

[L-Jam3]

It seems incongruous that the many of the same people who were mad that they were taking down statues of Confederate generals, which was a military action against America, were also mad that Colin Kaepernick knelt during the national anthem saying he was disrespecting the flag. If only there was a common denominator to reconcile those positions.

[Nonlinear FC]

https://mgoblog.com/content/all-or-none

Interesting times at Michigan. They are about to strip Fielding Yost from the field house for his racist proclivities, and Schembechler's inaction on the molesting doctor is putting his name on the football facility under serious scrutiny.

[Johnnie]

June needs a legit federal holiday. Flag day doesn't cut it for me.

Juneteenth would fix that.

Ay. I forgot I said this.

Since I'm in tomorrowland here in Korea we're going to get Monday off to observe.

Also, TIL National Mayonnaise Day is on May 5th.

[Pruitt]

Somewhat surprised that there were only 14 who voted against it.

Think we might see this come up if they get "primaried"?

[Shirley]

Am I supposed to be mad at Rachel Nichols for not wanting to give up her job to someone else or is there more to that story? The clip I heard just didn’t sound that bad at all.

[EdRomero]

Am I supposed to be mad at Rachel Nichols for not wanting to give up her job to someone else or is there more to that story? The clip I heard just didn’t sound that bad at all.

I looked up the quote: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/04/spor ... aylor.html

“I wish Maria Taylor all the success in the world — she covers football, she covers basketball,” Nichols said in July 2020. “If you need to give her more things to do because you are feeling pressure about your crappy longtime record on diversity — which, by the way, I know personally from the female side of it — like, go for it. Just find it somewhere else. You are not going to find it from me or taking my thing away.”

So it's one of those I'm all for supporting diversity unless it affects me.

[L-Jam3]

If that’s the quote, it sounds more like sour grapes than racism.