MLB July 2015

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:03 pm

Done. Norris, Labourt and Boyd for Price

Post by **brian** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:09 pm

I'm on board. Labourt is a lottery ticket, but Boyd is even better than I would have guessed for a second piece in a deal for a rental.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:11 pm

Yep, very good for Detroit. And at least Norris won't be disappointed by the housing market.

Post by **brian** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:13 pm

Ryan wrote:Yep, very good for Detroit. And at least Norris won't be disappointed by the housing market.

I was going to make that same joke :-( He'll have plenty of vacant lots to park his van in.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:18 pm

That's a lot to give up for a team that might not even make the playoffs and needs, like, pitchers. Two months of David Price for the guys who could, uh, be your pitchers.

Post by **brian** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:21 pm

Yup. And you could maybe justify the it for a team like the Cubs or Dodgers who would have a good chance to sign Price in FA, convincing him to stay, but I don't see how the Blue Jays are going to be signing him. I mean, you really do never know, but it doesn't seem likely.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:38 pm

AA is gambling for his job and maybe the future of the franchise. They have to do this. The Jays haven't made the playoffs in 22 years. Haven't even come close to playing meaningful September baseball in those years. Wasted a decade of Halladay.

If they do nothing more than the same old promises of prospect after prospect and lose Bautista and EE after failing yet again, the attendances will fall below 10000. The Jays have sucked in this generation (18-30) on hope after the Marlins trade. Time to deliver.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:27 pm

Gunpowder wrote:Maybe they think he's not going to hit or really want Olivera, who has raked in AAA.

Difficult to get more than a semi when a guy older than Adam Jones tears up AAA over 30 PAs.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:32 pm

Assuming Hamels wouldn't have agreed, this is the best Toronto was going to do. I imagine the nightmare scenario is Price losing the wild-card game and this all being for nothing, but if there's ever a deal that looks like the difference between just getting over the hump and not quite getting over, its this one.

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:30 pm

Mets game still going on, five and a half hours after starting. Two rain delays in the 9th, 0:45 and 2:52. Pads squeezed in 3 runs between those delays, to take 8-7 lead. There are about 50 people in the stands.

Post by **brian** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:10 pm

Tigers also trade Joakim Soria to Pirates for Double AA JaCoby Jones. I don't know how racist this makes me, but I based on the spelling of his name I would have bet a million dollars that Jones was black. (He is not.)

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:15 pm

Hahaaaaa I did too...and I know a lot about him. Just have never seen a picture. Khalil Greene-ed.

He's impressed so getting him for a reliever is a pretty good deal, I think. He's unlikely to be a star but he'll probably at least get a shot at an MLB job some day.

Post by **brian** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:40 pm

Gunpowder wrote:Hahaaaaa I did too...and I know a lot about him. Just have never seen a picture. Khalil Greene-ed.

He's impressed so getting him for a reliever is a pretty good deal, I think. He's unlikely to be a star but he'll probably at least get a shot at an MLB job some day.

Yeah for Soria it's a fair deal I think. You're not going to get a top ten prospect but a guy with some tools just outside the top ten sounds about right. He's going to play SS at Erie for Detroit but I wouldn't be surprised to see him in the OF if he's ever starting with Detroit.

DSafetyGuy · Post by **DSafetyGuy** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:24 pm

brian wrote:
Gunpowder wrote:Hahaaaaa I did too...and I know a lot about him. Just have never seen a picture. Khalil Greene-ed.

He's impressed so getting him for a reliever is a pretty good deal, I think. He's unlikely to be a star but he'll probably at least get a shot at an MLB job some day.
Yeah for Soria it's a fair deal I think. You're not going to get a top ten prospect but a guy with some tools just outside the top ten sounds about right. He's going to play SS at Erie for Detroit but I wouldn't be surprised to see him in the OF if he's ever starting with Detroit.

I saw on twitter that he's a SS/CF, so that would seem to be an outfield fit. He hits righty, so maybe he's eventually a platoon with Gose. But, that's way down the line.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:28 pm

A lot of talk about his impressing at short this year.

Post by **brian** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:34 pm

Gunpowder wrote:A lot of talk about his impressing at short this year.

Wouldn't go so far as to say he's blocked at SS because I'm not sold on Iglasias' bat and health but if he continues to play as he has this year he'll be at SS for at least the next four years in Detroit. I think keeping him (Jones) at SS for now is a hedge against how bad Iglesias' feet really are. If he stays healthy I think the next move is to have Jones play CF in Toledo for a year before the bigs (best case)

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:42 am

Leake a nice fit for the Giants - will pitch well in that ballpark.

howard · Post by **howard** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:16 am

Word.

Price wasn't too high. Duvall blocked by Belt and future full-time 1B Posey, and he can't play third. A-league pitcher Keury Mella is a promising 21yo, nice but long way from majors.

Its funny how quickly Cain, Timmy, Hudson, Vogelsong and even Peavy became a big old pile of question marks. Pitching is voodoo. Picking up a reliable #3 starter was critical, and this is a much better choice than giving up much more for two months of Hamels.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:17 am

howard wrote:Word.

Price wasn't too high. Duvall blocked by Belt and future full-time 1B Posey, and he can't play third. A-league pitcher Keury Mella is a promising 21yo, nice but long way from majors.

Its funny how quickly Cain, Timmy, Hudson, Vogelsong and even Peavy became a big old pile of question marks. Pitching is voodoo. Picking up a reliable #3 starter was critical, and this is a much better choice than giving up much more for two months of Hamels.

Hamels was way more than two months.

howard · Post by **howard** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:21 am

Oh shit, I forgot he was under contract for two. I was thinking of Price. Sorry.

eta: make that four, at 23.5 mil per. I still try to think about contracts and numbers as little as possible.

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:21 am

Any thoughts on Gomez to Astros? Still rumors they are talking to Padres about Kimbrel and Ross. This is the question everyone was asking about the Astros and the new owner: would they truly take the next step and make the trades/signings needed to actually become a contender and it looks like that has been answered with a resounding yes.

Nice sweep of the Angels this week too.

Post by **brian** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:16 pm

Pretty happy with the return for Cespedes too. Fulmer has a chance to make the rotation in 2016 depending on how things shake out. Tigers were able to reload their stock of pitching prospects in two days. And I think they have a better than decent shot to sign Cespedes in free agency. By all accounts, he really liked it in Detroit and with no compensation attached to him that's a plus. Don't know how much of it is smoke and mirrors but I've heard if they dealt him, they would make a run at signing him back.

howard · Post by **howard** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:37 pm

DSafetyGuy · Post by **DSafetyGuy** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:01 pm

I was just calling him Metspedes.

rass · Post by **rass** » Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:19 am

I guess Marte has made up for muffing that catch against St. Louis a couple of years ago. I heard the ninth on the radio last night but just watched the highlights. Wow.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:01 pm

alright, Holiday baseball :)

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:33 pm

So, by my count, this season the Royals have had bench-clearing conversations with the Blue Jays, the White Sox, the Angels, and the Athletics (twice).

Maybe anger management classes are in order?

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:42 pm

I feel like we had the same discussion last year. If you have beefs with multiple different teams, you're the problem, not vicey-versey.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:43 pm

Royals were mad at Donaldson's cockiness and the Jays stealing signs.

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:01 pm

sancarlos wrote:So, by my count, this season the Royals have had bench-clearing conversations with the Blue Jays, the White Sox, the Angels, and the Athletics (twice).

Maybe anger management classes are in order?

And they broke Springer's wrist. We should've brawled with them.

Yesterday seemed ridiculous. The first pitch that resulted in an ejection was the one pitch that wasn't up. And by the team who wasn't pitching up and in.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:35 pm

A_B wrote:I feel like we had the same discussion last year. If you have beefs with multiple different teams, you're the problem, not vicey-versey.

The A's (from the 2014 Wild Card game) are one or less deviation away from everything but the Angels thing (which was lame no matter who was involved)

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:38 pm

don't worry man, it's fun to root for the bad guys!

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 2:52 pm

Sanchez suspended 3 games. Makes no sense.

I need a Stephane Quintal explanation video.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:11 pm

Rex wrote:don't worry man, it's fun to root for the bad guys!

Dickey's quote about the Royals basically being bullies was funny. The team that was treading water a year and a week ago is the big bad bullies of the AL. I guess a World Series appearance does that.

In other news, Dombrowski is out in Detroit.

DSafetyGuy · Post by **DSafetyGuy** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:33 pm

Brontoburglar wrote:In other news, Dombrowski is out in Detroit.

I wonder if that has anything to do with convincing Ilitch to sell this season, like Dombrowski saying, "I know you want to win a World Series very badly (unspoken: "before you die"), but it's not happening this year and selling is the best move" and Ilitch essentially saying, "Fine, get us through the trade deadline, then resign."

Post by **brian** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:42 pm

I think Dombrowski was out at the end of the year anyway. This move is probably fairest to all parties. Already hearing him being the top candidate to replace Anthopoulos in Toronto.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:53 pm

DSafetyGuy wrote:
Brontoburglar wrote:In other news, Dombrowski is out in Detroit.
I wonder if that has anything to do with convincing Ilitch to sell this season, like Dombrowski saying, "I know you want to win a World Series very badly (unspoken: "before you die"), but it's not happening this year and selling is the best move" and Ilitch essentially saying, "Fine, get us through the trade deadline, then resign."

Yeah, that was my first thought, too. "Dammit, Dombrowski, I'm almost dead! I don't want to play for next season!"

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 4:57 pm

brian wrote:I think Dombrowski was out at the end of the year anyway. This move is probably fairest to all parties. Already hearing him being the top candidate to replace Anthopoulos in Toronto.

He wouldn't replace AA. He would replace Beaston and be AA's boss! That would be super awkward.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:12 pm

I haven't read about Dombrowski's departure. But I imagine it was his choice, or Ilitch's petulant response to his unwillingness to sign a new deal until he had a chance to asses his options.

Dombrowski did a great job in Detroit and will have attractive options. As to the timing, there is no more meaningful work for him to do between now and the off-season. Letting Avila take the seat as early as possible will be helpful to him.

The idea that the Tigers' poor season was due to Dombrowski is a real stretch. He made two deals that didn't work out for starting pitchers. But those types of deals are intrinsically gambles. He's made them before with considerable success (e.g., Fister, Sanchez).

It appears to me that the Tigers, after depleting their farm system for years to bring in veterans, simply didn't have quite as much talent as the Royals. The Royals used their strong finish to the 2014 season to fund a substantial spending increase. They had a strong base of young players. Then they did well in their off-season free agency moves, and had the cash to pay for Zobrist and Cueto in July. This is a very good team; probably better than the one that almost won the World Series. Historically great relief pitching and defense will get you a long ways. They have enough hitting and starting pitching to do damage. But as always, the post-season is a bit of a crap shoot.

Depleting the farm system was not a mistake, but a central tactic in the Tigers 'win now' era. And Dombrowski's made a long series of fine moves that led to considerable success. No World Series titles? The Tigers were in it, and earlier post-season rounds, quite a few times. There's no telling how a short series will work out. Clearly not quite well enough for Detroit since Dombrowski took over a team that lost 119 games in 2003.

My favorites of the many strong Dave Dombrowski deals:
- Miguel Cabrera for a boatload of prospects who did nothing for the Marlins
- Max Scherzer, Austin Jackson, Dan Schlereth, Phil Coke for Curtis Granderson and Edwin Jackson
- Carlos Guillen for Ramon Santiago (who the Tigers got back for nothing soon thereafter)
- Doug Fister for prospects who have done little
- J.D. Martinez for nothing
- Jose Iglesias for Avisail Garcia
- Todd Jones for a cheap free agent contract
- Yoenis Cespedes, Alex Wilson, other guy for Rick Porcello
- Pudge Rodriguez for a very reasonable free agent contract
- Jhonny Peralta for someone forgettable, then signing him to a reasonable free agent contract

In my view, Dombrowski will go down with Bill Lajoie as the best Tigers executives in modern history. As you'd expect, he's taken heat this season. But Tigers fans were very lucky to have him on board for so long.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:07 pm

Wouldn't it be weird if Dombrowski actually talked ownership into all of those huge and bad deals rather than vice versa?