Copa Oro: It's Not Pretty, But It's Ours

[tennbengal]

altho - around minute 40 - Zardes had it in the middle and a runner making a long 40 yard run to his right to space and just simply did not make the pass. Frustrating lack of awareness.

[mister d]

I still don’t “know soccer” but it seems like Robinson has been outstanding.

[tennbengal]

agreed.

[Rex]

The one advantage I think we might have tonight is fitness. We’ll see.

[tennbengal]

That should be a red. That's bullshit.

[Brontoburglar]

it's not pretty but it's ours is the motto of this final if the US wins

[tennbengal]

It' hasn't been entirely ugly either - pretty proud of the team. Extra time here.

[brian]

Watching this in a packed house in Mexico but there a huge table of American fans if things go our way.

[tennbengal]

Hoppe is such a dude.

[tennbengal]

FUCK YES

[tennbengal]

I am legit stunned.

[The Sybian]

I still don’t “know soccer” but it seems like Robinson has been outstanding.

Good call.

Too much to say, too tired. I’m in shock.

[tennbengal]

Yup. Shocked is a good word. That wasn't a fluky win. With our B squad (altho obv some of them are about to A squad)

[tennbengal]

I may owe Berhalter a bit of an apology.

[sancarlos]

All in all, not a bad half.

Not a bad finish, either!

[tennbengal]

[brian]

Los Tris en la barra could not have been nicer. I even walked the 1.5 miles home because I drank since 5 and I’m
A fat slob.

[The Sybian]

Los Tris en la barra could not have been nicer. I even walked the 1.5 miles home because I drank since 5 and I’m
A fat slob.

That’s good to hear. I think I felt more joy over Mexico losing than the US winning because I hate Mexican fans so much. I found the people of PV extremely lovely, but I was a tourist and they were in the business of taking my money, so you never really know.

My parents wanted to watch the game, so I gave them a primer and explained that Mexico was mostly A team while the US were fielding “a pile of hot garbage.” I had to withdraw that remark at halftime. It was like watching teams of the late 90s-early 2000s. Less skilled than top opponents, but fitness and determination kept them in games with a chance of winning. Hoppe was a goddamned beast out there! 100 minutes in, he was still sprinting to pressure the ball. 4-4 would have been more likely than 0-0 with all the chances. Some shocking misses by both sides, and some nice saves and defensive blocks.

For stretches of the game, it felt like watching hockey with all the end to end action

[wlu_lax6]

Game did not feel as dirty as concacaf games are usually are. Ref calling a tight game kept the bigger issues from happening. Thought he called a strong game and that helps the US.

1 month until WCQ. US in Cincinnati and the Azteca. Will Tata still be Mexico's coach for that one?

[wlu_lax6]

Also Zardes earns his playing time for 1 thing. Not for putting the ball in the goal, but for his work rate at playing defense. He made plays late in the game back in the defensive box and kept the US pressing most of the night. He is liked by this coaching staff because of the way he sets the defensive tone. High energy-High press. If his midfielders are up the field to help it is a good system. I enjoyed watching Paul A, Hoppe, and Zardes work together, rotate a little and press Mexico's back 3 and goalie.

[Nonlinear FC]

I may owe Berhalter a bit of an apology.

That was, by far, his best lineup and changes that I've seen.

Still not sure where that came from... They pressured at the right time and did just enough adjusting to pull it off.

[Nonlinear FC]

it's not pretty but it's ours is the motto of this final if the US wins

Word.

[DSafetyGuy]

I still don’t “know soccer” but it seems like Robinson has been outstanding.

Good call.

Too much to say, too tired. I’m in shock.

Syracuse is now starting to act like it has cared about soccer for a while.

It hasn't really.

[tennbengal]

This is a pretty great read, actually:

[Nonlinear FC]

Thanks for that link, looking fwd to reading over lunch.

Lost in all of the US soccer fan angst is what's going on with MEX. I know the Nation's League is kind of bullshit, but the Copa Oro... Isn't? The thread title says it all, and that goes just as much for MEX as it does for the US.

If you look at El Tri's roster, they are getting really old. And I'm not an expert on their player pool, but one of my favorite USMNT podcasters was breaking it down and their best "prospects" are in their mid-20s. Their (pretty much) A team just got beat by our B team (and that's an extremely generous B).

We've already talked extensively about how young our A team is rn, and that's not even getting into the couple of dozen guys in MLS and abroad that are in their teens that probably won't even get a sniff until the next WC cycle.


... off to read that article...

[Rex]

I think the Olympics really hamstrung their ability to construct the right roster for a mid-summer tournament. And the Olympic team….seems to be doing all right? We’ll know more tomorrow morning.

Shows the genius in tanking our Olympic qualifier. Three dimensional chess!

[degenerasian]

Thanks for that link, looking fwd to reading over lunch.

Lost in all of the US soccer fan angst is what's going on with MEX. I know the Nation's League is kind of bullshit, but the Copa Oro... Isn't? The thread title says it all, and that goes just as much for MEX as it does for the US.

If you look at El Tri's roster, they are getting really old. And I'm not an expert on their player pool, but one of my favorite USMNT podcasters was breaking it down and their best "prospects" are in their mid-20s. Their (pretty much) A team just got beat by our B team (and that's an extremely generous B).

We've already talked extensively about how young our A team is rn, and that's not even getting into the couple of dozen guys in MLS and abroad that are in their teens that probably won't even get a sniff until the next WC cycle.


... off to read that article...

The Gold Cup is kind of turning into bullshit too. There is no longer a Confederations Cup to go to. Before this year, the CONCACAF tournament or Gold Cup as it is known since 1991, always had a prize, either going to the World Cup or Confederations Cup. Now it is nothing.

[brian]

The Gold Cup is kind of turning into bullshit too. There is no longer a Confederations Cup to go to. Before this year, the CONCACAF tournament or Gold Cup as it is known since 1991, always had a prize, either going to the World Cup or Confederations Cup. Now it is nothing.

It's the continental championship. It doesn't really require some other carrot other than winning some hardware.

One thing I'd like to see them do is actually move around the hosting duties a little. I get that it mostly needs to be in the US because of ticket sales, but I think they should host it in the US every other time and when it's not in the US give Canada a chance to host, Mexico a chance and maybe even the Central American countries if the situation ever stabilizes/improves down there. Would be kind of cool to have the Caribbean nations host it one time. Imagine how crazy it would be to have games in Cuba, Jamaica, T&T, etc.

[Nonlinear FC]

I agree on changing up the venues, but a legit issue in a lot of these countries is having enough playable fields. Even T&T has trouble putting together a decent surface.

In fact, thinking of Panama, San Pedro Sula (HON), Jamaica, El Sal, Guat...

Really bad national stadium fields.

[degenerasian]

Yes. Every 4 tournaments it should be in the US twice, Mexico once and somewhere else once. But even that might be too much money to give up.

[degenerasian]

I agree on changing up the venues, but a legit issue in a lot of these countries is having enough playable fields. Even T&T has trouble putting together a decent surface.

In fact, thinking of Panama, San Pedro Sula (HON), Jamaica, El Sal, Guat...

Really bad national stadium fields.

If you give 8 years notice they can put something together. The carribean has hosted a Cricket World Cup.

[P.D.X.]

World cup qualifying just sneaks up on them!

[The Sybian]

I agree on changing up the venues, but a legit issue in a lot of these countries is having enough playable fields. Even T&T has trouble putting together a decent surface.

In fact, thinking of Panama, San Pedro Sula (HON), Jamaica, El Sal, Guat...

Really bad national stadium fields.

If you give 8 years notice they can put something together. The carribean has hosted a Cricket World Cup.

It's not like a Gold Cup will pay for a quality stadium. How many people would travel to a Central American country or T&T for a Gold Cup? I don't think any of those countries could handle more than a couple of games, even if they had a suitable venue.

I agree with Brian's take that hardware for hardware's sake is fine, but we just had the Nation's League final a few weeks before the Gold Cup. We can have one of those events, but what's the point of both? I don't get it. Men in Blazers keep saying the USSF doesn't owe CONCACAF anything, and we should skip it and play in the Copa America instead, get some real experience against quality teams instead of trouncing Martinique.

[degenerasian]

I agree on changing up the venues, but a legit issue in a lot of these countries is having enough playable fields. Even T&T has trouble putting together a decent surface.

In fact, thinking of Panama, San Pedro Sula (HON), Jamaica, El Sal, Guat...

Really bad national stadium fields.

If you give 8 years notice they can put something together. The carribean has hosted a Cricket World Cup.

It's not like a Gold Cup will pay for a quality stadium. How many people would travel to a Central American country or T&T for a Gold Cup? I don't think any of those countries could handle more than a couple of games, even if they had a suitable venue.

I agree with Brian's take that hardware for hardware's sake is fine, but we just had the Nation's League final a few weeks before the Gold Cup. We can have one of those events, but what's the point of both? I don't get it. Men in Blazers keep saying the USSF doesn't owe CONCACAF anything, and we should skip it and play in the Copa America instead, get some real experience against quality teams instead of trouncing Martinique.

What's your definition of a quality stadium? we are all spoiled by NFL and college football stadium but in reality 30,000 for soccer is enough, like the one in Kansas City. Equatorial Guinea hosted two African Nations Cups in four small stadiums.

Kingston, Jamaica's stadium holds 35,000, that would just need a revamp. The one in T&T is 25,000. Maybe a couple of crickets grounds can be converted too. T&T has hosted two U-17 world cups (one men and one women)

Again, if you give 8 years, the Chinese could build everything.

But you're right. CONCACAF is only interested in money and the US delivers every time.

[The Sybian]

I agree on changing up the venues, but a legit issue in a lot of these countries is having enough playable fields. Even T&T has trouble putting together a decent surface.

In fact, thinking of Panama, San Pedro Sula (HON), Jamaica, El Sal, Guat...

Really bad national stadium fields.

If you give 8 years notice they can put something together. The carribean has hosted a Cricket World Cup.

It's not like a Gold Cup will pay for a quality stadium. How many people would travel to a Central American country or T&T for a Gold Cup? I don't think any of those countries could handle more than a couple of games, even if they had a suitable venue.

I agree with Brian's take that hardware for hardware's sake is fine, but we just had the Nation's League final a few weeks before the Gold Cup. We can have one of those events, but what's the point of both? I don't get it. Men in Blazers keep saying the USSF doesn't owe CONCACAF anything, and we should skip it and play in the Copa America instead, get some real experience against quality teams instead of trouncing Martinique.

What's your definition of a quality stadium? we are all spoiled by NFL and college football stadium but in reality 30,000 for soccer is enough, like the one in Kansas City. Equatorial Guinea hosted two African Nations Cups in four small stadiums.

Kingston, Jamaica's stadium holds 35,000, that would just need a revamp. The one in T&T is 25,000. Maybe a couple of crickets grounds can be converted too. T&T has hosted two U-17 world cups (one men and one women)

Again, if you give 8 years, the Chinese could build everything.

But you're right. CONCACAF is only interested in money and the US delivers every time.

I’m less concerned with the number of seats as the quality of the field. The national stadiums in T&T and most of the CONCACAF nations aren’t suitable for youth travel soccer games.

[Nonlinear FC]

I'm not trying to be a dick, degen, but the idea that somehow they'd just wave a wand and fix these fields having watched CONCACAF qualifying since 1996 has me pretty jaded. And by not being a dick, I mean I don't know that CAN has seen some of the shit we've seen as US fans.

They have shitty fields for a reason. It takes the more skillful teams down 2 or 3 notches on the difficulty level.

Fuck. Two cycles ago, San Pedro Sula was like playing in the rough at The Open. Ridiculous.

[degenerasian]

Central America is off limits. But I think the Caribbean is doable. Once every 8 or 10 years. I think Syb is selling T&T short. Again FIFA's hosted two tournaments there. Don't judge entirely by WCQ. Of course they make the field shit to their advantage for one game. But a tournament would be played in the best conditions since it's a neutral venue.

I mean this was 20 years ago.

[The Sybian]

I think Syb is selling T&T short.

Maybe I'm just traumatized by the game at T&T where the US lost when they needed a result to make it to the 2018 World Cup.

Grant Wahl article

The Trinis moved Tuesday’s game (as they’re allowed to) from the national stadium to Ato Boldon Stadium, a smaller structure an hour south of the capital, due to what are said to be electrical problems in the usual venue. And when the U.S. players arrived for training on Monday, they were greeted by a moat of standing water that required players to be taken on piggyback by staffers onto the field... The corners and sides of the field were under water as well.

[The Sybian]

What's your definition of a quality stadium? we are all spoiled by NFL and college football stadium but in reality 30,000 for soccer is enough, like the one in Kansas City. Equatorial Guinea hosted two African Nations Cups in four small stadiums.

Kingston, Jamaica's stadium holds 35,000, that would just need a revamp. The one in T&T is 25,000. Maybe a couple of crickets grounds can be converted too. T&T has hosted two U-17 world cups (one men and one women)

Again, if you give 8 years, the Chinese could build everything.

But you're right. CONCACAF is only interested in money and the US delivers every time.

What are the attendances for U-17 World Cups. I tend to remember those games being played in front of maybe 1,000 fans, pretty much the parents of the players and a few locals. The Gold Cup games tend to fill up stadiums. Some of the games are back-to-back and you have fans for both games at the stadium, but still, people do travel to the US for the Gold Cup, and I don't think T&T has the hotels and infrastructure to host that many fans. If you play a youth tournament without fans, you don't need as many stadiums, and you can play in a field with a few hundred seats. If you have sizable crowds from 16 teams, you need hotels, and you can't host that many fans in one location, you need to spread them over several stadiums. Sure, the Chinese can build 10 stadiums in a week, but they have a centralized government run economy and a billion people. Give T&T a decade, and they can't do it, and why would they for a fucking Gold Cup? Once the tournament ends, what are they going to do with all the stadiums and infrastructure? All to host a lame-ass tournament nobody cares about?

That said, it is crazy to me that they don't ever allow Mexico or Canada to host. Is it because you have substantial populations of immigrants from every CONCACAF nation in the US? Last time Costa Rica played in NJ, I was shocked to see the number of Costa Rican flags that went up in my town. I had no idea there were so many Costa Ricans in my town.

ETA: Went and checked attendance at T&T World Cup. Two T&T and Brazil games drew 20,000-25,000 as did the final, other T&T and Brazil games only drew 10k. Group B (including USA) drew 7-8k a game, Group C was drawing 7,000 a game, with one game drawing 10,000 fans and Group D was drawing 7,000. They only had 3 venues, capacities of 27,000, 10,000 and 7,500.

[Nonlinear FC]

I think what could possibly work is a Pan-Carribbean thing, where each group is played on one island and then they subsequently host the knockout stages at a decreasing number, with the final being held on the island with the biggest/nicest stadium.