Random Politics

[mister d]

We actually didn't get much of the fake sanctuary city nonsense that hit the airwaves further south, which shows you they were very savvy about what they were doing.

Further south and further north. They were running those commercials in my county which went 80%/18% Democrat.

[brian]

We actually didn't get much of the fake sanctuary city nonsense that hit the airwaves further south, which shows you they were very savvy about what they were doing.

Further south and further north. They were running those commercials in my county which went 80%/18% Democrat.

He meant within Virginia. In other words, they weren't running the sanctuary cities ads in the DC suburbs essentially.

[mister d]

Maybe weirdly phrased, but I was saying NJ was too stupid to properly target by hitting Essex County at all.

[brian]

Maybe weirdly phrased, but I was saying NJ was too stupid to properly target by hitting Essex County at all.

Yeah, after I replied I thought that's where you might be going but wasn't sure. I can believe NJ Republicans are dumber than Va Republicans.

[brian]

On top of already being a horrible human being, Roy Moore is apparently a pedophile. (Not by literally definition as per the Spacey thread, but still.)

[tennbengal]

On top of already being a horrible human being, Roy Moore is apparently a pedophile. (Not by literally definition as per the Spacey thread, but still.)

Trying to decide how that will play in Alabama...

[brian]

On top of already being a horrible human being, Roy Moore is apparently a pedophile. (Not by literally definition as per the Spacey thread, but still.)

Trying to decide how that will play in Alabama...

Oh they'll still elect him because at least he isn't a liberal, but I don't want to hear any bullshit about Democrats protecting sexual predators any more.

[Pruitt]

I hope that she's ready for what's going to be coming her way...

She also was concerned that her background — three divorces and a messy financial history — might undermine her credibility.

“There is no one here that doesn’t know that I’m not an angel,” Corfman says, referring to her home town of Gadsden.

Bearing that in mind, I'm sure that I could write Hannity's show tonight.

[tennbengal]

On top of already being a horrible human being, Roy Moore is apparently a pedophile. (Not by literally definition as per the Spacey thread, but still.)

Trying to decide how that will play in Alabama...

Oh they'll still elect him because at least he isn't a liberal, but I don't want to hear any bullshit about Democrats protecting sexual predators any more.

Right. In hindsight, the timing is damn funny, actually, since the right has been hammering on the Weinstein assualts for weeks and hanging that on dems (which is still kinda weird). In any event, not that logic matters there, but hard for them to discredit the women who say they were assualted by Moore while saying the ones assualted by Weinstein were telling the truth. I guess if it's all partisan, they can, but, good christ.

[EnochRoot]

On top of already being a horrible human being, Roy Moore is apparently a pedophile. (Not by literally definition as per the Spacey thread, but still.)

Trying to decide how that will play in Alabama...

Probably be one of those "be a Christian only when you feel like it" things...

[tennbengal]

I am a bad person, AB pointed that out pretty well, but holy fuck this is delicious. Especially the part where the entire Republican party was on record individually and collectively backing him so they could keep trying to cut taxes for the .01%.

And, while we're here --- the way he went after the 14-year-old - in the courthouse, separating her from her mother to gain trust, then molesting her later - holy shit. And while he was a prosecutor too...

[Steve of phpBB]

And, while we're here --- the way he went after the 14-year-old - in the courthouse, separating her from her mother to gain trust, then molesting her later - holy shit. And while he was a prosecutor too...

Of course, we're assuming she's telling the truth. The Republicans won't say "it was okay for Moore to do that." They'll say "these are politically motivated accusations thirty years after the fact and they aren't credible."

[degenerasian]

Degen, do you think the Dems are currently "relying on race to win elections"? Can you give examples of what you're thinking about?

For example, it was just reported that John Kelly, Trump's chief of staff, is pressuring DHS to expel something like 60,000 Hondurans and Nicaraguans who were allowed to come to (or stay in?) the US after a Hurricane in 1998.

If the Dems point out how horrible this is, is that identity politics or relying on race?

If they point this out in context of brutal ICE tactics and Trump's decision to revoke protections for Dreamers, does that make it identity politics in your view?

Relying on race to win elections. Catering to minority groups at the expense of majority groups (instead of treating them on equal ground)

1. By abandoning rural areas. Most minorities live in urban areas so money and policies is concentrated there
2. By abandoning religion. Catholicism and Christianity are still important in America
3. Immigration, America is still a country, with borders (DACA was definitely instituted to win 2016 votes, maybe they could not vote but they were on the campaign trail))

For your 2nd point, immigration is a tough issue because the US has no immigration policy. It has no path to citizenship like in Canada. DACA was really an illegal temporary solution. Trump is throwing it back to congress to get an immigration plan. Something like the Bush-Reid in 2007. The Democrats should point out how horrible the policy is (not because they're poor Hondurans who have been here 20 years). Are Democrats interested in drafting a path to citizenship law? Are they interested in an immigrant point system to get a green card? DACA was a pandering solution (sorry to say)

[degenerasian]

Running against a President (and attacking him along the way) who is polling in the 30s and has disapproval close to 60 percent is a no brainer. It's laughable to suggest otherwise.

The ads in VA (which, of course, everyone in the NoVA market got a massive dose of) were very heavy on "Trump is bad, and I'm going to stand up to his bullshit." Countered by "This guy is soft on crime, bad for the economy." We actually didn't get much of the fake sanctuary city nonsense that hit the airwaves further south, which shows you they were very savvy about what they were doing.

I'm not really sure I even understand the logic employed here. The Democratic base has been fired up for over a year now. The one unifying thing is utter contempt and loathing of Trump. In the weeks running up to this Tuesday, all you heard was how dysfunctional the party was. Donna fucking Brazille out there in the days prior to election, stirring up bullshit, pedaling nonsense.

None of that matter. Tuesday was a tsunami.

So, honestly degen... What the fuck are you even talking about?

It's a very good sign, Northam ran a good campaign. But it's a small sample size nonlinear. I am not convinced until the House falls in 2018.

Ok, I see you fleshed out your thoughts as I was posting.

I think you are fundamentally flawed in your logic that the Democrats are relying on racial issues to win. The black vote is not something that's ever been at play. It's actually a real issue for black voters, because up until very recently, issues like reforming the justice system were not a Democratic priority. That's a huge issue that is FINALLY being placed into the mainstream for the party. The Hispanic vote is not as monolithic block, which is why the GOP establishment is so squirrelly on immigration -- they think they could flip a lot of those voters.

And it wasn't just VA. NJ, ME, a lot of state and local races... And in VA, if you've been reading what I've been writing and posting articles on... That is a HISTORIC election in the statewide positions. It's not clear if they flipped control (too many toss ups with recounts going no), but they haven't won back that many seats in decades. They bounced incumbents in very Red counties/districts.

I'm not saying 2018 is a lock, but Tuesday was a MAJOR success across the board. The GOP is shitting their pants right now.

I agree with you and I hope you are right.

[Pruitt]

And, while we're here --- the way he went after the 14-year-old - in the courthouse, separating her from her mother to gain trust, then molesting her later - holy shit. And while he was a prosecutor too...

Of course, we're assuming she's telling the truth. The Republicans won't say "it was okay for Moore to do that." They'll say "these are politically motivated accusations thirty years after the fact and they aren't credible."

If the accusation is true - and trust me, I think that the vast, vast majority of such accusations are legit (especially the initial ones) - pretty thin odds that he assaulted only one girl.

I'd bet a couple of bucks that there are more to follow.

EDIT - Shame on me for not seeing the paragraph that has other women alleging that he approached them but didn't have sex with them.

[Brontoburglar]

I am currently Roy Moore's age at the time of the allegations and that scenario makes me want to run to the bathroom and hurl.

the "32 at the time" thing made it hit a little closer to home

[Steve of phpBB]

Degen, do you think the Dems are currently "relying on race to win elections"? Can you give examples of what you're thinking about?

For example, it was just reported that John Kelly, Trump's chief of staff, is pressuring DHS to expel something like 60,000 Hondurans and Nicaraguans who were allowed to come to (or stay in?) the US after a Hurricane in 1998.

If the Dems point out how horrible this is, is that identity politics or relying on race?

If they point this out in context of brutal ICE tactics and Trump's decision to revoke protections for Dreamers, does that make it identity politics in your view?

Relying on race to win elections. Catering to minority groups at the expense of majority groups (instead of treating them on equal ground)

1. By abandoning rural areas. Most minorities live in urban areas so money and policies is concentrated there
2. By abandoning religion. Catholicism and Christianity are still important in America
3. Immigration, America is still a country, with borders (DACA was definitely instituted to win 2016 votes, maybe they could not vote but they were on the campaign trail))

For your 2nd point, immigration is a tough issue because the US has no immigration policy. It has no path to citizenship like in Canada. DACA was really an illegal temporary solution. Trump is throwing it back to congress to get an immigration plan. Something like the Bush-Reid in 2007. The Democrats should point out how horrible the policy is (not because they're poor Hondurans who have been here 20 years). Are Democrats interested in drafting a path to citizenship law? Are they interested in an immigrant point system to get a green card? DACA was a pandering solution (sorry to say)

Again, though, examples?

What are you referring to when you say that Democrats "abandoned" rural areas and religion?

What is your evidence that DACA was instituted to win 2016 votes, instead of instituted because it was the right thing to do for hundreds of thousands of people who lived basically their entire lives in the US, did nothing wrong, and are as American as I am?

[Brontoburglar]

also the "if true" caveat is kinda big because you can't exactly "prove" 30+ year allegations are true.

[brian]

At least three other women have already come forward to make similar allegations when they were between 16 and 18 years old.

[Brontoburglar]

Degen, do you think the Dems are currently "relying on race to win elections"? Can you give examples of what you're thinking about?

For example, it was just reported that John Kelly, Trump's chief of staff, is pressuring DHS to expel something like 60,000 Hondurans and Nicaraguans who were allowed to come to (or stay in?) the US after a Hurricane in 1998.

If the Dems point out how horrible this is, is that identity politics or relying on race?

If they point this out in context of brutal ICE tactics and Trump's decision to revoke protections for Dreamers, does that make it identity politics in your view?

Relying on race to win elections. Catering to minority groups at the expense of majority groups (instead of treating them on equal ground)

1. By abandoning rural areas. Most minorities live in urban areas so money and policies is concentrated there
2. By abandoning religion. Catholicism and Christianity are still important in America
3. Immigration, America is still a country, with borders (DACA was definitely instituted to win 2016 votes, maybe they could not vote but they were on the campaign trail))

For your 2nd point, immigration is a tough issue because the US has no immigration policy. It has no path to citizenship like in Canada. DACA was really an illegal temporary solution. Trump is throwing it back to congress to get an immigration plan. Something like the Bush-Reid in 2007. The Democrats should point out how horrible the policy is (not because they're poor Hondurans who have been here 20 years). Are Democrats interested in drafting a path to citizenship law? Are they interested in an immigrant point system to get a green card? DACA was a pandering solution (sorry to say)

Again, though, examples?

What are you referring to when you say that Democrats "abandoned" rural areas and religion?

What is your evidence that DACA was instituted to win 2016 votes, instead of instituted because it was the right thing to do for hundreds of thousands of people who lived basically their entire lives in the US, did nothing wrong, and are as American as I am?

Viewing giving thousands of people the legal right to be American citizens because it's the common sense thing to do as a campaign ploy is fucking insane

[Pruitt]

also the "if true" caveat is kinda big because you can't exactly "prove" 30+ year allegations are true.

And that's exactly the point that the Moore camp will make.

Which is why the fact that others came forward - and did so during the investigation, and not after the publication of the article - is so huge.

God I hope that this piece of shit doesn't stand down and stays on the ballot.

even in Alabama, he wouldn't still win... would he?

[tennbengal]

And, while we're here --- the way he went after the 14-year-old - in the courthouse, separating her from her mother to gain trust, then molesting her later - holy shit. And while he was a prosecutor too...

Of course, we're assuming she's telling the truth. The Republicans won't say "it was okay for Moore to do that." They'll say "these are politically motivated accusations thirty years after the fact and they aren't credible."

Well, shit steve, in a world where we are now taking women/victims at face value (Weinstein, Spacey, CK, et al), I am gonna go with she's telling the truth. There's four of them. They vote Republican. The Post found them, not vice versa. I guess they will be attacked now, but, fuck that's shitty if it goes down like that.

[A_B]

McConnell is calling for him to withdraw.

[Steve of phpBB]

I'd bet a couple of bucks that there are more to follow.

That's usually how these things play out.

Anyway, I just kicked in $25 for Doug Jones through ActBlue. Fuck Roy Moore and his Republican co-conspirators.

(And from what I've read, I believe their stories too. But would I be just as quick to believe if the stories were about someone I didn't already hate?)

[Brontoburglar]

also the "if true" caveat is kinda big because you can't exactly "prove" 30+ year allegations are true.

And that's exactly the point that the Moore camp will make.

Which is why the fact that others came forward - and did so during the investigation, and not after the publication of the article - is so huge.

God I hope that this piece of shit doesn't stand down and stays on the ballot.

even in Alabama, he wouldn't still win... would he?

they made it on breitbart before the WaPo article came out -- I'm referencing all the statements from senators. occam's razor is pretty strong here, but

[Nonlinear FC]

I am watching Fox right now (*wretch*) and they are covering this VERY much straight up. Quoting both McConnell and Shelby (other AL sen.) as saying if these allegations are true, there's no place for him in the Senate and he should step aside.

Moore is of course denying and calling the allegations political motivated and desperate.

What I just heard on Fox(!!??) was that neither Corfman or any of the other women in the story sought out the Post. For Fox to report on that part of the story is really telling.

He's proper fucked if Fox is driving the bus over his back.

[Pruitt]

I'd bet a couple of bucks that there are more to follow.

That's usually how these things play out.

Anyway, I just kicked in $25 for Doug Jones through ActBlue. Fuck Roy Moore and his Republican co-conspirators.

(And from what I've read, I believe their stories too. But would I be just as quick to believe if the stories were about someone I didn't already hate?)

You might, considering that four separate women described four separate incidents before the story broke.

[Nonlinear FC]

I wonder how the establishment would've reacted prior to the Tuesday elections?

To be clear, both Shelby and McConnell said if the allegations are true. This is an important hedge. It's not accurate to say they called for him to step aside. A lot of people were out there with strongly worded statements about Trump after the Billy Bush fiasco. Waited a week (to see which way the wind was blowing) and ALL of those fuckers were back on board.

[tennbengal]

Oh, and since Roy Moore wants my daughter arrested along with all other LBQT persons for simply being human, FUCK the hypocritical Roy Moore, with as rusty a power tool as you can find. Asshole.

[brian]

The GOP establishment (McConnell et al) HATES Moore so they see this as an opportunity to replace him on the ballot. Don't get me wrong, they'd welcome him and his votes to cut taxes on the rich if and when he wins/won but they see this as a chance to get Strange back on the ballot now.

[mister d]

Oh, and since Roy Moore wants my daughter arrested along with all other LBQT persons for simply being human, FUCK the hypocritical Roy Moore, with as rusty a power tool as you can find. Asshole.

You wanna tackle him? Because I'd like it if you tackled him.

[Nonlinear FC]

https://www.axios.com/republicans-respo ... m=politics

Republican reax.

[Nonlinear FC]

The GOP establishment (McConnell et al) HATES Moore so they see this as an opportunity to replace him on the ballot. Don't get me wrong, they'd welcome him and his votes to cut taxes on the rich if and when he wins/won but they see this as a chance to get Strange back on the ballot now.

Good point. This is gonna be fascinating if he doesn't step aside.

[tennbengal]

The GOP establishment (McConnell et al) HATES Moore so they see this as an opportunity to replace him on the ballot. Don't get me wrong, they'd welcome him and his votes to cut taxes on the rich if and when he wins/won but they see this as a chance to get Strange back on the ballot now.

Too late to replace him on the ballot!

[Steve of phpBB]

I'd bet a couple of bucks that there are more to follow.

That's usually how these things play out.

Anyway, I just kicked in $25 for Doug Jones through ActBlue. Fuck Roy Moore and his Republican co-conspirators.

(And from what I've read, I believe their stories too. But would I be just as quick to believe if the stories were about someone I didn't already hate?)

You might, considering that four separate women described four separate incidents before the story broke.

Yeah, after reading the story - the reporters have put together a pretty persuasive case.

Thought experiment: If these allegations had come out against Obama in mid-October 2008 or mid-October 2012 ... ? I have no doubt I still would have voted for him, though hopefully I also would have wanted him to resign right after the election.

[mister d]

https://twitter.com/lyman_brian/status/ ... 4374861824

[tennbengal]

Oh, and since Roy Moore wants my daughter arrested along with all other LBQT persons for simply being human, FUCK the hypocritical Roy Moore, with as rusty a power tool as you can find. Asshole.

You wanna tackle him? Because I'd like it if you tackled him.

Him I would tackle.

[tennbengal]

https://twitter.com/lyman_brian/status/928712904374861824

Um. Hmmm. Undressing a 14-year-old and touching the child while having the child touch you is much ado about nothing? Jared from Subway agrees, I guess. And Kevin Spacey. Etc. Etc.

[brian]

The GOP establishment (McConnell et al) HATES Moore so they see this as an opportunity to replace him on the ballot. Don't get me wrong, they'd welcome him and his votes to cut taxes on the rich if and when he wins/won but they see this as a chance to get Strange back on the ballot now.

Too late to replace him on the ballot!

Yeah, I should say there's already talk about trying to do an organized write-in campaign for Strange, which if it happens means Jones might really win because it'll pretty much prevent Moore from winning.

[Pruitt]

Too easy...

“I want to see virtue and morality returned to our country and God is the only source of our law, liberty and government,” Moore said during Thursday’s debate with incumbent Sen. Luther Strange