The Swamp

As this thing progresses, at least we have the opportunity to treat the red MAGA hat as a scarlet letter marking who is likely to be infected.

DSafetyGuy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:47 pm As this thing progresses, at least we have the opportunity to treat the red MAGA hat as a scarlet letter marking who is likely to be infected.

Too bad most of those people are afraid to wear the hat in public all the time. I used to see that a lot in Vegas. Only the really proud Nazis wore them, but they always knew they'd have a lot of people come up to them at the bar and loudly explain how awesome Trump is.

Yeah. That would be interesting data too. If they can live eat work breathe together without infection might indicate that we should be able to also.

Yes, your friend is hardcore. A hardcore fucking moron.

DSafetyGuy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:00 am Doctor Drew has been doing a bang-up job the last month to six weeks.

Just listened to Dr. Drew on Bert Kreisher's podcast. Not sure when the interview was recorded, but the pod was released on March 31. Either the interview was several days earlier, or Dr. Drew is laser focused on what he sees in LA and is ignoring NYC and New Jersey. I was really shocked at how much he downplayed the danger, railed against the media for causing anxiety, and questioning the extent of social distancing. I know things aren't nearly as bad in the rest of the country, but the shit I'm hearing from inside the hospitals is much worse than the media is showing. I'm cautiously optimistic that there is some light at the end of the tunnel, but I think NJ is going to peak and decline while much of the rest of the country starts to get worse. About 10 days ago, the Governor of NJ told hospitals they need to stop focusing on getting ventilators and shift focus to acquiring body bags and refrigeration trucks because the morgues are full. I'm thinking the interview might have been old, as he was talking about Sarah Palin being unmasked on the Masked Singer. I looked that up, and all the videos were over 3 weeks old. [While I don't watch the show, I think her voice is so grating and ingrained in my brain, I don't see how people wouldn't instantly identify her voice].

Dr. Drew seemed to be calling for opening restaurants to small groups. He said he was furious at a Dr for calling for limiting gatherings to 10 people while the CDC was calling for limits over 50 (then he said when Fauci called for limiting to 10 people, he deferred to Fauci). It was interesting hearing Drew talk about Fauci. I'm not sure if he worked directly with Fauci, but they were both working with AIDS patients in the early epidemic stage, and Drew clearly reveres Fauci and said he will defer to anything Fauci says.

Johnnie wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:03 am Yes, your friend is hardcore. A hardcore fucking moron.

The entire Air Force should play shirtless beach volleyball in Daytona

Ryan wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:03 am The entire Air Force should play shirtless beach volleyball in Daytona

Now you're just ripping off the plot of Top Gun.

What is so wrong with voluntary infection again? Feel like I'm always on the other side with you guys. I can't be the only person considering this. I'm likely to serve up my kids in a couple months. The other option is infection at a time and under conditions you don't control. Seems obvious to me that we will get back to the new normal before a vaccine is ready.

It can lead to voluntarily hospitalization and voluntary death at a time where there's already shortages of supplies and providers.

They're going to make your kids go back to school before they find a vaccine. Won't that lead to hospitalization and death because you voluntarily sent your kid to school? Just with a lot more kids competing for ventilators and nurses.

You're not taking the second part of his statement seriously enough.

Yes, in a complete vacuum and controlled environment, I can see a scenario with voluntarily contracting.

That's not where we are, so you are taking a huge gamble that there will be proper care for you and/or your children.

I can accept that but now we're down to a timing issue. One that should be considered very carefully. But the twitter folks are acting like Johnnie. Like somehow that's an absurd thought instead of the reasoned calculations everyone will be making in a few months.

Did I miss an official announcement that once you've had it once you can't get it again? Maybe in the hubbub of the discovery that carriers can be asymptomatic last week?

rass wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:51 am Did I miss an official announcement that once you've had it once you can't get it again? Maybe in the hubbub of the discovery that carriers can be asymptomatic last week?

Yeah, that's not even a given yet as far as I know.

Both parents of a family here (involuntarily) contracted it, leaving a 3rd grader and a kid in K to handle most of the house stuff for a day or two of overlap until the mom was doing better. The dad is currently hospitalized on oxygen. It’s not an illness with any sort of predictable pattern or something you just get to move past having had it.

With y'all on that. Seems like consensus that there will be some sort of immune response. Much less so in terms of duration. A key consideration no doubt.

Eta: good example of why you might attempt to control though. Id like to be healthy when I care for the kids and then ideally me and the missus would stagger.

This isn't the fucking chicken pox, man.

I'd like to get prostate cancer just so I don't have to worry about getting it again later.

brian wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:08 am

Ryan wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:03 am The entire Air Force should play shirtless beach volleyball in Daytona

Now you're just ripping off the plot of Top Gun.

But we have better planes. And sexier logisticians.

HaulCitgo wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:51 am I can accept that but now we're down to a timing issue. One that should be considered very carefully. But the twitter folks are acting like Johnnie. Like somehow that's an absurd thought instead of the reasoned calculations everyone will be making in a few months.

I'm in the actual fucking military, man. Deployed to a location that right now has us on an island. The world has stopped to the point that it's vibrating less and nature has resumed. This idea makes no sense until there's an actual treatment. Until then, hunker down and ride it out. Limit exposure.

I'm not volunteering to accept this fucking Russian roulette of a disease. It's not a good idea. Not now. Probably not ever.

Not in the Yang gang, eh?

HaulCitgo wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:04 pm With y'all on that. Seems like consensus that there will be some sort of immune response. Much less so in terms of duration. A key consideration no doubt.

Eta: good example of why you might attempt to control though. Id like to be healthy when I care for the kids and then ideally me and the missus would stagger.

The fear is that this virus has already seemed to mutate several times since it was initially discovered several months ago. If it does mutate enough, it's possible everyone who previously had it could get it again. There are some anecdotal incidents of "cured" patients contracting the virus again in China, but it's possible they had a flareup of the initial infection when the doctors thought they were cured.

As for the intentionally infecting people... I don't think you understand the state of hospitals right now. Across most of the country, they have stopped treating non-life threatening issues. One by one, every ward is being transitioned to a COVID ward. First the ICU, then the cardiac ICU, then the entire cancer ward... People with scheduled cancer treatments are being placed indefinitely on hold. World-renowned cardiac surgeons are being trained to do med-student level work in the ICUs because they are so overrun with COVID patients. As I mentioned in one of these threads this morning, the NJ Governor told hospitals to stop focusing on acquiring ventilators and instead focus on acquiring body bags. Every hospital has refrigerated truck trailers in the parking lot to stack dead bodies. We are right at the breaking point that every additional patient means one less patient that can be saved. They are at capacity. Every patient who gets admitted means one patient who can possibly be saved stops receiving treatment.

So, why the fuck are we talking about intentionally infecting additional people? All this talk of only the elderly and immuno-compromised people getting sick is extremely misleading. Hospitals are filled with critical patients between 30-50 years old without other health complications.

I also should have included the drastic shortage of protective equipment. Doctors and nurses are treating patients without proper protection, and the number of healthcare workers testing positive is terrifying. How can we even discuss intentionally infecting people when we don't have enough equipment as it is? I'm amazed doctors and nurses haven't started walking off the job yet. It also seems like a disproportionate number of healthcare workers get critically ill and die. They think symptoms are worse due to repeated exposure, but again, who the fuck knows.

govmentchedda wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:44 pm Not in the Yang gang, eh?

Not this one. UBI, yes. COVID, no.

Would be just our (American) luck if Boris dies and Trump keeps on ticking.

Valid perspectives. But the calculus changes if you're not willing or able to hunker down through next spring or so when a vaccine is available. Likewise the calculus changes as hospitals are expanded, staff comes back from illness, and ventilators and ppe production increases. Just as it might be irrational to take this step now in NYC, might not be irrational to do the same now in a rural area and might be rational to the same in NYC in 3 months.

My kid was playing kill the carrier with about 15 kids when I picked him up from after school the afternoon of the last day. I don't see how I send him back in the fall without a very high likelihood of infection. So hunkering down til a vaccine cause there are serious consequences from an infection isn't really a reasonable alternative. To me, that inaction may make a bad outcome more likely.

Seriously man, where is your proof you can't get it twice???

Or that its worth the 10-15% chance of hospitalization and non-zero chance of dying?

Pruitt wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:30 pm Boris Johnson in Intensive Care

Super sad.

brian wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:27 pm Secretary of the Navy making friends.

And it was wrong and unprofessional for the captain to go outside the chain of command (even though he didn't and there's no proof he did), but putting him on blast like this isn't?

That acting Navy Secretary is saying Trump's words because Trump is too much of a chickenshit coward to say it himself. Absolutely disgraceful that the military is being politicized like this.

Professionalism is a patsy, strawman argument when someone who outranks you needs a layer of bullshit to hide behind.

The audio I listened to... This guy is such Queeg it's not even funny. He'd be thrown off the ship with cement shoes if he went around with that prick attitude.

The sailor shouting What The Fuck?! about 2 minutes in was worth the wait, though.

Johnnie wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:22 pm

brian wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:27 pm Secretary of the Navy making friends.

And it was wrong and unprofessional for the captain to go outside the chain of command (even though he didn't and there's no proof he did), but putting him on blast like this isn't?

That acting Navy Secretary is saying Trump's words because Trump is too much of a chickenshit coward to say it himself. Absolutely disgraceful that the military is being politicized like this.

Professionalism is a patsy, strawman argument when someone who outranks you needs a layer of bullshit to hide behind.

Well, being even more specific, Modley is bitching about the chain, on one hand, and then bitching that Capt Crozier didn't go directly to him with concerns on the other.

But, you know, we're hiring all the smartest, the brightest... the best.

Fucking moron can't even keep his simple-minded blame the captain message straight.

Johnnie wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:22 pm

brian wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:27 pm Secretary of the Navy making friends.

And it was wrong and unprofessional for the captain to go outside the chain of command (even though he didn't and there's no proof he did), but putting him on blast like this isn't?

That acting Navy Secretary is saying Trump's words because Trump is too much of a chickenshit coward to say it himself. Absolutely disgraceful that the military is being politicized like this.

Professionalism is a patsy, strawman argument when someone who outranks you needs a layer of bullshit to hide behind.

Johnnie, based on your experience the past several days, is this issue something the average guy in the military is talking about? What is the common guy's thought about it? Are some people agreeing with the acting secretary of the Navy and his ilk?

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:28 pm The audio I listened to... This guy is such Queeg it's not even funny. He'd be thrown off the ship with cement shoes if he went around with that prick attitude.

The sailor shouting What The Fuck?! about 2 minutes in was worth the wait, though.

I completely didn't realize that the words he spoke was in front of the crew or completely misread it. Yea, this is some bullshit.

sancarlos wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:36 pmJohnnie, based on your experience the past several days, is this issue something the average guy in the military is talking about? What is the common guy's thought about it? Are some people agreeing with the acting secretary of the Navy and his ilk?

Unfortunately I'm not around many folks out here, so I just don't know. I can only glean from social media exactly how people are feeling. Facebook and the Air Force subreddit seem beside themselves.

And you're really not going to bring up stuff like this to people who outrank you for fear of retribution. I can't risk my career and retirement check on making sure my opinion is heard over this. I've already lost a potential considerable amount of money because my last deployment ended so poorly.

My wife has to follow up with close secondary contacts on the positive cases she handles. One of them today was a NYPD officer. Normal protocol would have him self quarantine. Since he’s asymptomatic he said that there was no way he would be permitted to miss time.