AFC Championship - Pats/Colts

Post by **brian** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:20 pm

As much as I hate to admit, Petey King had a good point -- unless the NFL thinks they have some kind of smoking gun, nothing probably happens until after the Super Bowl.

But all bets are off after that. I really, honestly don't think they can trace it to Brady or Belichick from a legal perspective, from a provable evidence standpoint, even if you'd have to be a fool to think it was a rogue ballboy or whatever the Patriots are going to try and spin this as, but if they DO trace it to Belichick somehow, I don't see any way he isn't suspended for some period of time.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:21 pm

Holy fuck, who cares what the analogy is? Even when you find the right one, you then have to move on to the other 58 layers that make this thing what it is.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:24 pm

Two pieces worth reading:

Arrogance demands consequences by Jackie MacMullen

The Ballghazi Takes Are Here, And They Are Fucking Insane by Drew Magary

My only issue with either: suspending Belichick for the Super Bowl. Seriously, hubris deserves a reality check, but suspending a coach for the Super Bowl over deflated balls is the epitome of overreaction. The majority of the sports watching world is either relishing in the schadenfraude of watching a Patriots scandal, shrugging their shoulders because these are under inflated footballs, or being righteous indignants with their idealist wet dreams.

If Belichick is suspended, Brady is suspended. And if that happens, you have to take a serious, serious look at the entire operation of the NFL.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:26 pm

mister d wrote:Was just going to make the seams analogy.

Listening to Francesa (in car, not intentionally), he seems to think a suspension is a real possibility.

I'll also say one more thing. I don't know how many of you coaches a sport where an inflated ball is part of the game. I coach soccer, and I've spent a pretty decent amount of time fully inflating balls for practice and games. When we provide game balls, the difference between fully inflated and a ball minus 2 lbs is playable versus unplayable.

I know, I know, different sports. But I can tell you, I immediately know a ball is under-inflated. So, two things:

1.a) I'm really REALLY dubious about the idea that the refs would only know the difference if they were looking fpr it. I can tell you, even most shitty soccer refs almost immediately notice a soft ball. If 11 of 12 balls were soft, while 12 of 12 were legal on the Colts side. No one noticed?

1.b) Now we know the league was aware of the issue pregame. I'll just leave it there. (ETA to leave no question about what I'm saying - Please see point 1.a... shouldn't they, you know, have been looking out for this very issue? Which begs the question, did the Colts forget to remind the officials to be on the lookout for this?)

2) People want to make a claim that the under inflated balls had no affect on the game. How do they know that? This is like saying one race car and its driver are clearly better than everyone else... so it's OK that they altered the engine outside of the scope of the rules.

I just hate that kind of argument. It was a shitty, wet day. One team played with softer balls making it easier to grip the ball. Saying that doesn't give one team a distinct advantage is just fucking absurd to me.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:30 pm

Ryan wrote:Holy fuck, who cares what the analogy is? Even when you find the right one, you then have to move on to the other 58 layers that make this thing what it is.

We have a week and a half to go.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:45 pm

mister d wrote:
Ryan wrote:Holy fuck, who cares what the analogy is? Even when you find the right one, you then have to move on to the other 58 layers that make this thing what it is.
We have a week and a half to go.

Ugh, I'll be over in the politics thread.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:45 pm

OK, I'm back

howard · Post by **howard** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:54 pm

What took you so long?

P.D.X. · Post by **P.D.X.** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:02 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote: I'll also say one more thing. I don't know how many of you coaches a sport where an inflated ball is part of the game. I coach soccer, and I've spent a pretty decent amount of time fully inflating balls for practice and games. When we provide game balls, the difference between fully inflated and a ball minus 2 lbs is playable versus unplayable.

Yes, but if there's one sport where you could get away with deflated balls, it's football. You don't bounce it or kick it (the balls used for offense, at least) and only a handful of people even touch it. And since it's pointy on the ends you can only really even squeeze it from one orientation.

Post by **brian** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:11 pm

Some of the stories I've seen today have said the difference of 2 psi (in a football) is almost imperceptible unless you're throwing or catching the ball, which the officials almost never do obviously.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:50 pm

Or the Jets

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:11 pm

howard · Post by **howard** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:56 pm

Nation Can’t Wait To Hear Patriots Fans’ Excuses This Time

WASHINGTON—After an NFL investigation revealed that 11 of New England’s 12 game balls were under-inflated during last weekend’s AFC Championship Game, Americans across the nation announced Wednesday that they would love—absolutely love—to hear the excuses from Patriots fans this time. “No, no, by all means, go ahead,” said every single person living outside of Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Vermont, Maine, Rhode Island, and Connecticut before reportedly smiling and adding, “I’m all ears.” “Wait, let me guess: The deflated footballs were also easier to catch for the Colts defense, so the Patriots didn’t have a real advantage, right? Or is it that the score was so lopsided that it didn’t matter in the end? No, seriously, I’m sure you guys have something really great cooked up for this one.” The American populace went on to say that they also absolutely cannot wait to hear how this new scandal will have no effect on the legacy of Tom Brady.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:25 am

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:29 am

The real question is why that 12th ball wasn't underinflated. Is Bellichik losing his fastball?

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:22 am

Las Vegas has odds that Belichick will be suspended for the Super Bowl.

+750 (15/2) Yes.
-1500 (1/15) No.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:06 am

Might have to put $1500 on no

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:41 am

What would you do with that cool $100?

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:55 am

Well that presser was really awkward. Belichick said he doesn't know anything about it and doesn't have an explanation (which I think could be true) and then they asked him like 30 straight questions about it and every time he said he doesn't know anything about it and doesn't have an explanation.

So, I guess the takeaway is that he has no intention of taking the fall.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:59 am

Assuming their only concern is the Super Bowl, that makes sense. There's a 1% chance Belichick would get suspended. 0% chance on Brady.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:46 am

Surprising to hear that the Ravens and Colts are sharing information.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:50 am

that's #chuckweak!

rass · Post by **rass** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:52 am

#harbitter

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:57 am

I'm disappointed that the Pats and Ravens hate each other so much. Both being contemptible organizations, you'd think they'd have a mutual respect.

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:09 am

Jerloma wrote:Well that presser was really awkward. Belichick said he doesn't know anything about it and doesn't have an explanation (which I think could be true) and then they asked him like 30 straight questions about it and every time he said he doesn't know anything about it and doesn't have an explanation.

So, I guess the takeaway is that he has no intention of taking the fall.

Marshawn Lynch was just fined an additional $20K for Belichick's non answers...

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:55 am

This Tom Brady press conference is going to be something. I haven't seen the body language of Belichick, but I tend to believe what I read and he deferred to Brady on the issue.

This just sucks.

BSF21 · Post by **BSF21** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:00 pm

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:01 pm

"I did it. I'm a cheater. I cheated on Bridget Moynihan and I cheat at football. And this isn't my real hair."

rass · Post by **rass** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:01 pm

BSF21 wrote:

But enough about Sunday's result. What about this #ballghazi thing?

Post by **brian** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:10 pm

So Belichick threw Brady under the bus, huh? Honestly didn't see that coming. This ought to be good.

<grabs popcorn>

BSF21 · Post by **BSF21** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:16 pm

rass wrote:
BSF21 wrote:
But enough about Sunday's result. What about this #ballghazi thing?

Right???

(quietly sobs in the corner)

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:17 pm

I think it's perfect and smart and they're paying a fine and Brady gets to have fun with it.

Post by **brian** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:23 pm

Ryan wrote:I think it's perfect and smart and they're paying a fine and Brady gets to have fun with it.

So you don't think Brady gets suspended? (Not for the Super Bowl -- like I said, that isn't happening no matter what).

I could see the NFL suspending him for 4 games next season. Granted, not the end of the world, but that's a lot of money out of his pocket and sanctimonious media folks would have his ass for the rest of his life. Not sure it's worth it for him either to take the fall.

Post by **brian** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:24 pm

(You know Lane Kiffin is sitting in his house in Alabama right now yelling at the TV "Just blame it on the ballboys, idiots!".)

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:26 pm

No chance, even next year, that Brady gets suspended. This is the perfect play to delay penalties until after the Super Bowl because Belichick shrugging is enough to confuse an indecisive dummy like Goodell despite the fact that the Saints precedent makes head coach punishment near-mandatory.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:28 pm

Would a cheating suspension/suspicion preclude Brady from making the HoF or is that just a baseball thing?

Post by **brian** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:31 pm

mister d wrote:No chance, even next year, that Brady gets suspended. This is the perfect play to delay penalties until after the Super Bowl because Belichick shrugging is enough to confuse an indecisive dummy like Goodell despite the fact that the Saints precedent makes head coach punishment near-mandatory.

You're right. I'm agreeing with you, but I'm saying if this is some Belichick super-genius ploy like Ryan is suggesting where Brady willingly takes the fall after the Super Bowl or whatever how does Brady not get suspended next season? The team's going to get fined regardless and they might even lose draft picks (though maybe not firsts) if they frame this as Brady's plot, but a player admitting that he ordered or paid team personnel to doctor the balls isn't going to get off with a slap on the wrist.

(To your second question, I thought about that and I don't think it matters. Oh you'll have sanctimonious jerks like PK who will get on their high horse, but I don't think it affects his HoF status at all. But that's part of my original point -- that shit MATTERS to Brady, maybe more than other QBs. He married a fucking supermodel, for Christ's sake. I think he legitimately cares what his perception is more than most QBs, which is saying something.)

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:34 pm

I don't think Brady taking the fall is remotely possible, either.

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:36 pm

mister d wrote:Would a cheating suspension/suspicion preclude Brady from making the HoF or is that just a baseball thing?

No. Unless it turned out he's been doing this his entire career but even if that were true (I don't think so), it's not coming out.

Post by **brian** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:38 pm

Ryan wrote:I don't think Brady taking the fall is remotely possible, either.

So Belichick blames Brady and Brady blames Belichick? That might work, but I don't think it's going to matter much to Sheriff Goodell. (And I don't see how that's good for their future working relationship unless it's contrived by them, though that's entirely possible.)

I imagine they really probably are just going to blame it on a rogue ballboy (probably the smart move), but that's still going to result in some punishment.