2021/22 NCAA Basketball

duff · Post by **duff** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 11:08 am

Gard grabbed Howard's elbow to continue a conversation that Howard initiated. He let go when Howard 'kindly' asked him to do so. Howard than grabbed Gard's shirt. Then punched/slapped another person that didn't 'accost' him. And all because Howard was upset that he was outcoached. And as mentioned before, not the first time he has had an altercation with an opposing coach.

And this is is a workplace. Would this be allowable in any other workspace? Nope.

And just to be clear, I am not saying his career should be over. I am not sure anyone here has said that his career should be over. Just his current employment with the University of Michigan. I have no problem with another program hiring him, or him getting a job in the NBA.

HaulCitgo · Post by **HaulCitgo** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 11:10 am

Funny though. She happened to walk in the door 5 minutes ago. Nice lady. Just not particularly driven.

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 11:13 am

duff wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 11:08 am Gard grabbed Howard's elbow to continue a conversation that Howard initiated. He let go when Howard 'kindly' asked him to do so. Howard than grabbed Gard's shirt. Then punched/slapped another person that didn't 'accost' him. And all because Howard was upset that he was outcoached. And as mentioned before, not the first time he has had an altercation with an opposing coach.

And this is is a workplace. Would this be allowable in any other workspace? Nope.

And just to be clear, I am not saying his career should be over. I am not sure anyone here has said that his career should be over. Just his current employment with the University of Michigan. I have no problem with another program hiring him, or him getting a job in the NBA.

I guarantee you if I walked down the hall at my office and someone says something as innocuous as that to me to which I proceeded to grab them like that Gard grabbed Howard, HR would be involved immediately.

EnochRoot · Post by **EnochRoot** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 11:22 am

Giff wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 11:13 am
duff wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 11:08 am Gard grabbed Howard's elbow to continue a conversation that Howard initiated. He let go when Howard 'kindly' asked him to do so. Howard than grabbed Gard's shirt. Then punched/slapped another person that didn't 'accost' him. And all because Howard was upset that he was outcoached. And as mentioned before, not the first time he has had an altercation with an opposing coach.

And this is is a workplace. Would this be allowable in any other workspace? Nope.

And just to be clear, I am not saying his career should be over. I am not sure anyone here has said that his career should be over. Just his current employment with the University of Michigan. I have no problem with another program hiring him, or him getting a job in the NBA.
I guarantee you if I walked down the hall at my office and someone says something as innocuous as that to me to which I proceeded to grab them like that Gard grabbed Howard, HR would be involved immediately.

Sure but it wouldn’t only be HR getting notified: cuz you’re already likely on record with a series of absolutes as to what you’d do to people in certain situations.

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 11:27 am

I don't think my HR department has an account here, buddy.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 11:29 am

1. Gard was out of line grabbing Howard.
2. Howard responded at about a 3x escalation or higher.
3. This should have happened in the tourney so atleast I could pretend to care.

duff · Post by **duff** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 11:37 am

Giff wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 11:13 am
duff wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 11:08 am Gard grabbed Howard's elbow to continue a conversation that Howard initiated. He let go when Howard 'kindly' asked him to do so. Howard than grabbed Gard's shirt. Then punched/slapped another person that didn't 'accost' him. And all because Howard was upset that he was outcoached. And as mentioned before, not the first time he has had an altercation with an opposing coach.

And this is is a workplace. Would this be allowable in any other workspace? Nope.

And just to be clear, I am not saying his career should be over. I am not sure anyone here has said that his career should be over. Just his current employment with the University of Michigan. I have no problem with another program hiring him, or him getting a job in the NBA.
I guarantee you if I walked down the hall at my office and someone says something as innocuous as that to me to which I proceeded to grab them like that Gard grabbed Howard, HR would be involved immediately.

You act as if there was no precedent set before the arm grab. Howard told another coach last year that he would fucking kill him. Not sure if he had said anything to Gard before the postgame, but he definitely said something after the timeout. Just not sure if it was directed towards Gard. And I have said that Gard should have repercussions. But having your arm grabbed and then punching/slapping someone else elevates it to another level.

From your argument, it was okay for Howard to hit the assistant coach because Gard grabbed his elbow. They were all in the wrong. But an elbow grab isn't as high on this list as punching/slapping someone in the head. Howard should be fired for his actions. Gard should be suspended for the rest of the year including post season. Same goes for the three players that were throwing fists (2 Michigan players and one Wisconsin player).

There has to be consequences for actions. And they need to do away with the mandated post game hand shakes. It would put an end to these types of altercations.

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 11:41 am

I've never said Howard was correct in doing what he did. I've already stated he should be suspended. It's the "firing him for cause won't somebody think of the children" while not even acknowledging what Gard did in the immediate aftermath that I'm arguing against.

rass · Post by **rass** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 11:56 am

Speaking of old school, think how much fun it would be if we still had access to 2009 Swamp and could read up on what we all thought of LeGarrette Blount!

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 12:12 pm

I was on a plane and missed all of this in the moment. But... I think not enough folks here are acknowledging that this is a second strike for a university and an AD (Warde) that don't let you get to the second strike without a) a major public apology and groveling or b) getting shit-canned.

I don't honestly know where this all goes, but in this moment, it is a TERRIBLE and unsustainable look for MI. He's, at a minimum, looking at a lengthy suspension.

Fucking huge bummer, because I think Howard is really good for the program.

bfj · Post by **bfj** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 12:27 pm

So the guy grabbing the elbow is the snowflake not the 6’10, 275 former pro athlete who threw a bitch slap over three other people?

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 12:31 pm

rass wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 11:56 am Speaking of old school, think how much fun it would be if we still had access to 2009 Swamp and could read up on what we all thought of LeGarrette Blount!

This (and the "Malice at the Palace") are ones where I remember being on the right side of history from the jump. The only thing Blount did wrong was not punch him again.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 1:23 pm

I guess if Howard is fired his next gig will be head coach at Hickory?

Post by **Shirley** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 1:26 pm

BTW, can we all stop comparing sports jobs to office jobs? A ton of stuff you do as a college or pro coach would get you fired from an office job. And to some degree, vice versa.

(although I wouldn't mind making folks come in early to run stairs some days)

duff · Post by **duff** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 1:40 pm

We aren't talking about yelling while coaching the team. We are talking about striking someone in the head while at work. Same standards should apply to any job in any field when it comes to physical altercations.

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 1:51 pm

At least we agree Grayson Allen should be fired!

DSafetyGuy · Post by **DSafetyGuy** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:03 pm

From the Athletic:

According to the Big Ten Sportsmanship Policy, commissioner Kevin Warren is limited to imposing at most a two-game suspension and a fine up to $10,000. Any penalty beyond those provisions would have to be approved by the Joint Group Executive Committee (JGEC).

So, any heavy lifting on a suspension would have to be done by Michigan.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 4:15 pm

And I'll go on record predicting it's a minimum of rest of the season or he's fired.

Y'all have to also remember this is a school that never lets OSU forget Woody Hayes hitting that kid from Clemson. (Not the same thing, but having someone even in the ballpark is considered a disgrace.)

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 4:21 pm

I assume that "ballpark" doesn't allow doctors and trainers?

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 9:45 am

Not really breaking any news you guys probably already saw, but just to close the loop, Howard suspended for rest of the season (5 games.) Maximum the league can suspend is for 2 games.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 2:03 pm

I will say, looking at all of this today, seeing video and reading breakdowns. The issue that didn't get discussed much here or mostly anywhere... Juwan loses it and swings his hands at the assistant coaches when that guy starts putting his hands on a MI player.

I think MI got the suspension right, I'm not condoning anything done by JW or anyone on the MI side, but... Man, the WIS coaching staff is not looking very good when you break the tape down.

duff · Post by **duff** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:17 pm

If anything it was something the WI assistant said. You can see Howard and the MI player beside him (tall white kid) turn and look towards the assistant. In scrums like that, coaches of both teams are trying to separate players. The WI assistant didn't grab the WI player. From what I have seen is that he put his hand on his chest. The MI player didn't get pushed or moved, just held back. But after Howard swings, a WI player (#0 I believe) throws a punch. The MI player the threw a punch and another WI assistant coach slides between his arms and the MI player throws him onto the ground. All while #44 from MI starts throwing at #0 from WI. And then you see the WI coach that was thrown on the ground trying to get back up from under the scrum. Some were saying Howard threw him back down, but I didn't see that. But he was in a bad place.

EnochRoot · Post by **EnochRoot** » Wed Feb 23, 2022 6:53 am

So last night vs Villanova, UConn had what likely amounts to its biggest win since their 2014 NC championship game. Except the main storyline is that Danny Hurley got himself ejected from the game inside of 6 minutes left in the first half for exciting the crowd.

Everyone seems to think the ref overreacted.

What say you?

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Wed Feb 23, 2022 10:08 am

Just watched the extended clip.

Wow. Probably the softest ejection I've seen at that level? I've seen some wonky shit watching high school basketball, but at the college level? In that game (high stakes/2 top 25 teams).

Terrible.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Wed Feb 23, 2022 10:09 am

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Wed Feb 23, 2022 10:08 am Just watched the extended clip.

Wow. Probably the softest ejection I've seen at that level? I've seen some wonky shit watching high school basketball, but at the college level? In that game (high stakes/2 top 25 teams).

Terrible.

I am all for this, but only in that it would end Bruce Pearl's career.

(Pearl sure seems to be an excellent coach. For YOUR team. And that's saying a lot coming from me, I know.)

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Feb 23, 2022 10:38 am

I'm not going to say "welcome to how Villanova games are officiated" but ... its not the biggest shocker. Villanova also had a free throw for every 2 pt shot taken (19 each) versus UConn's 32 to 11 ratio (and two of those were at the buzzer). Jay Wright is an exceptional coach, but a portion of that is how effectively he works the refs and that's tiresome as fuck if you're someone who truly and deeply hates Villanova.

EnochRoot · Post by **EnochRoot** » Wed Feb 23, 2022 10:55 am

The issue that perhaps a lot of people missing is that Hurley caused the stoppage of play with his technical foul (slamming the scorer’s table). As he blows up at the ref in the aftermath, Gillespie goes to the top of the key to prepare to shoot Villanova’s free throw. The assistant coaches intervene on Hurley’s behalf, and even Sanogo asks him to keep his head. Cole does the same, at which point Hurley turns on a dime and smiles and then turns and gesticulates the crowd into a frenzy.

All while Gillespie is waiting to shoot his free throw from the original technical.

EnochRoot · Post by **EnochRoot** » Wed Feb 23, 2022 10:56 am

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Feb 23, 2022 10:38 am I'm not going to say "welcome to how Villanova games are officiated" but ... its not the biggest shocker. Villanova also had a free throw for every 2 pt shot taken (19 each) versus UConn's 32 to 11 ratio (and two of those were at the buzzer). Jay Wright is an exceptional coach, but a portion of that is how effectively he works the refs and that's tiresome as fuck if you're someone who truly and deeply hates Villanova.

Gillespie sure is forearmsy.

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Wed Feb 23, 2022 10:20 pm

This Providence/Xavier game is bonkers.

GoodKarma · Post by **GoodKarma** » Wed Feb 23, 2022 11:09 pm

Kept the Wyoming-CSU game off the network broadcast until 7:00 to go in the game.

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:54 pm

The Sports Junkies (DC sports folks that nonlinear has played goalie with in the past) getting some inside info that the money guys with Terps athletics want Pitino for the coaching job. Apparently, he was seen meeting with some key folks last week and the very lazy hosts of this radio program hit the phones to get some confirmation.
https://www.audacy.com/podcasts/the-spo ... 1280710160

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:23 pm

Pitino in the Big 10 feels like a disturbance to the Force. That's just not something that is supposed to happen.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:27 pm

Well, that's the type of hire they need to make to become relevant again. Seems pretty unlikely. Pitino is apparently pretty happy up in NY and the B1G is a fucking grind.

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:03 pm

What a great end to the Rutgers Indiana game tonight. Harper Jr is a good college player.

L-Jam3 · Post by **L-Jam3** » Thu Mar 03, 2022 12:51 pm

Rex wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:23 pm Pitino in the Big 10 feels like a disturbance to the Force. That's just not something that is supposed to happen.

It's been at least five years, and I now live in the state, but I'm still not used to Maryland being in the B1G.

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Thu Mar 03, 2022 1:41 pm

L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 12:51 pm
Rex wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:23 pm Pitino in the Big 10 feels like a disturbance to the Force. That's just not something that is supposed to happen.
It's been at least five years, and I now live in the state, but I'm still not used to Maryland being in the B1G.

So Rick P came out publicly and basically said, Maryland is great and they need to find their next Gary Williams, he is committed to Iona and it won't be him.

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Thu Mar 03, 2022 7:33 pm

wlu_lax6 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 1:41 pm
L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 12:51 pm
Rex wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:23 pm Pitino in the Big 10 feels like a disturbance to the Force. That's just not something that is supposed to happen.
It's been at least five years, and I now live in the state, but I'm still not used to Maryland being in the B1G.
So Rick P came out publicly and basically said, Maryland is great and they need to find their next Gary Williams, he is committed to Iona and it won't be him.

Which means he's definitely going to Maryland.

bfj · Post by **bfj** » Thu Mar 03, 2022 10:31 pm

L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 12:51 pm
Rex wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:23 pm Pitino in the Big 10 feels like a disturbance to the Force. That's just not something that is supposed to happen.
It's been at least five years, and I now live in the state, but I'm still not used to Maryland being in the B1G.

You live in MD now? Where?

bfj · Post by **bfj** » Thu Mar 03, 2022 10:35 pm

I’m just going to celebrate Towson University winning the CAA regular season title for the first time over here. They still need to win their conference tournament to get to the NCAA tournament. I’m happy for the coach. He’s a great guy (autism parent) and he deserves it.

L-Jam3 · Post by **L-Jam3** » Fri Mar 04, 2022 4:52 am

bfj wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 10:31 pm
L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 12:51 pm
Rex wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:23 pm Pitino in the Big 10 feels like a disturbance to the Force. That's just not something that is supposed to happen.
It's been at least five years, and I now live in the state, but I'm still not used to Maryland being in the B1G.
You live in MD now? Where?

Elkton. About a good three-iron from the Delaware border.