The Swamp

That French Guy wrote:

degenerasian wrote:paying the bill? Girls still expect it and will mark you down if you don't.

Not sure about that. I had dinner once with 4 female friends when we were all single and started to talk about first dates, and 3 of them ripped me to shreds when I told them that stuff (and the last one is quite old school, so no surprises there).

I generally pay first date, but I don't go on expensive first dates. Coffee or a drink. Absolutely no dinners.

And any girl that "expects" it isn't date-able in my book. I don't do princess complexes.

That French Guy wrote:

degenerasian wrote:paying the bill? Girls still expect it and will mark you down if you don't.

Not sure about that. I had dinner once with 4 female friends when we were all single and started to talk about first dates, and 3 of them ripped me to shreds when I told them that stuff (and the last one is quite old school, so no surprises there).

I call bullshit on that. Sure, in front of their friends they are all about equality, but on a first date, they want a guy who will pay. At the very least, you have to TRY to pay. If you don't it gives off a "I can't afford this and therefore have no money and am a loser" vibe. Not the vibe you want to go with.

I honestly don't know which way to side here. It just seems to depend upon the female more than social norms at this point.

If she has a decent paying job or doesn't want to make it seem as though she can't pay her way, she'll split. If she's "traditional" or "full of herself," I'm on the hook.

Too bad there aren't a few Swamp females that can chime in here.

Shirley wrote:

That French Guy wrote:

degenerasian wrote:paying the bill? Girls still expect it and will mark you down if you don't.

Not sure about that. I had dinner once with 4 female friends when we were all single and started to talk about first dates, and 3 of them ripped me to shreds when I told them that stuff (and the last one is quite old school, so no surprises there).

I call bullshit on that. Sure, in front of their friends they are all about equality, but on a first date, they want a guy who will pay. At the very least, you have to TRY to pay. If you don't it gives off a "I can't afford this and therefore have no money and am a loser" vibe. Not the vibe you want to go with.

But he lives in the Socialist paradise of the 37 hour workweek. I think France is way more progressive than the US. I always paid on the first date. If it was dinner or something, and they offered to pay for coffee after or something, that is fine.

The Sybian wrote:If it was dinner or something, and they offered to pay for coffee after or something, that is fine.

Being Scottish, if they offer to pay for anything or everything that's more than fine with me.

It's not really about money (unless you go to 4-star restaurants for your first date). When I started meeting more girls through a dating site, I always offered to pay and was always turned down, even by those I ended up dating anyways. So now I don't even bother to ask.

My friends said that if they let us pay the first time, they feel pressured to meet again just so they could pay back (and they also hated this old-school way of thought).

And Syb, get your facts straight my man. We're on a 35-hour workweek down here (officially at least).

I always pay. I usually try to do something fun and reasonably priced, so it's not that bad, and if she offers to pay for a round of drinks I'm good with that. But food, tickets, etc, I get.

However, I don't think I've spent more than $50 tops on a first date. I think I spent $40 a couple weeks ago.

That French Guy wrote: And Syb, get your facts straight my man. We're on a 35-hour workweek down here (officially at least).

Sorry, I guess I gained a couple of hours in translation.

Johnnie wrote:I honestly don't know which way to side here. It just seems to depend upon the female more than social norms at this point.

If she has a decent paying job or doesn't want to make it seem as though she can't pay her way, she'll split. If she's "traditional" or "full of herself," I'm on the hook.

I almost always split the bill on first dates. I've had women friends tell me that women don't feel "pressured" about expectations that way.

If we were just doing drinks or coffee I would usually at least offer to pay. But usually the woman would kick in half.

The girls I date don't feel pressured at all when I pay for the first date. They just smile and are happy about it.

They then pretend to go on a 2nd date and pay for that (paying off debt) knowing they'll never see me again.

Some advice please?

There's this hot blonde at work (she's very blonde, both physically and ditzy). She been here about a year and a half. I work on the 5th floor and she works on the 7th floor so we rarely see each other. She has a boyfriend. I met him once, he was a real loser.

This morning I'm walking around the building (checking lotto tickets) and I run into her.

I ask "where are you going?"

"Starbucks"

"I'll join you"

I was thinking of coffee anyways but I rarely get Starbucks, I make an exception here and we chit chat.

I find out she broke up 3 months ago. So how do I go about asking her out. If I did it RIGHT NOW it would be quite creepy (since she's already returned to the 7th floor and I'm sitting here typing this!). We have a mutual friend which she also hasn't seen in awhile so that could be set up within a few days or next week. But he's unreliable. What's the suitable waiting period... she hasn't seen me in ages, probably has no idea I'm interested.

Are events good? I got movies tickets, theatre tickets, restaurant gift cards that I haven't used (cause I have noone to go with).

Lead with the "I got no one to go with, I'm a pathetic loser" card, sure.

degenerasian wrote:Some advice please?

There's this hot blonde at work (she's very blonde, both physically and ditzy). She been here about a year and a half. I work on the 5th floor and she works on the 7th floor so we rarely see each other. She has a boyfriend. I met him once, he was a real loser.

This morning I'm walking around the building (checking lotto tickets) and I run into her.

I ask "where are you going?"

"Starbucks"

"I'll join you"

I was thinking of coffee anyways but I rarely get Starbucks, I make an exception here and we chit chat.

I find out she broke up 3 months ago. So how do I go about asking her out. If I did it RIGHT NOW it would be quite creepy (since she's already returned to the 7th floor and I'm sitting here typing this!). We have a mutual friend which she also hasn't seen in awhile so that could be set up within a few days or next week. But he's unreliable. What's the suitable waiting period... she hasn't seen me in ages, probably has no idea I'm interested.

Are events good? I got movies tickets, theatre tickets, restaurant gift cards that I haven't used (cause I have noone to go with).

You're probably fucked since you're opening play was following her around like a puppy-dog, buuuuuuuttt...

I'm assuming you have a way of contacting her, so do that like tomorrow. Tell her it was fun getting coffee, then make fun of her for whatever she ordered (I'm sure she got something stupid if she likes to go to Starbucks), and then mention there's this new bar you want to check out later this week and if she wants to meet up for a quick drink (without whip cream and sprinkles). Don't ask her when she's free, just give her two different evenings as options. If she balks or says she's busy and doesn't try to re-schedule, then forget it and move on.

SHE DID!

She got the stupid halloween pumpkin caramel flavoured coffee.

I don't she she noticed I was following, I made it look like I was going to Starbucks anyways, so let's go together.

I can't wait to watch the sitcom based on PDX's dating advice for degen.

P.D.X. wrote:

degenerasian wrote:Some advice please?

There's this hot blonde at work (she's very blonde, both physically and ditzy). She been here about a year and a half. I work on the 5th floor and she works on the 7th floor so we rarely see each other. She has a boyfriend. I met him once, he was a real loser.

This morning I'm walking around the building (checking lotto tickets) and I run into her.

I ask "where are you going?"

"Starbucks"

"I'll join you"

I was thinking of coffee anyways but I rarely get Starbucks, I make an exception here and we chit chat.

I find out she broke up 3 months ago. So how do I go about asking her out. If I did it RIGHT NOW it would be quite creepy (since she's already returned to the 7th floor and I'm sitting here typing this!). We have a mutual friend which she also hasn't seen in awhile so that could be set up within a few days or next week. But he's unreliable. What's the suitable waiting period... she hasn't seen me in ages, probably has no idea I'm interested.

Are events good? I got movies tickets, theatre tickets, restaurant gift cards that I haven't used (cause I have noone to go with).

You're probably fucked since you're opening play was following her around like a puppy-dog, buuuuuuuttt...

I'm assuming you have a way of contacting her, so do that like tomorrow. Tell her it was fun getting coffee, then make fun of her for whatever she ordered (I'm sure she got something stupid if she likes to go to Starbucks), and then mention there's this new bar you want to check out later this week and if she wants to meet up for a quick drink (without whip cream and sprinkles). Don't ask her when she's free, just give her two different evenings as options. If she balks or says she's busy and doesn't try to re-schedule, then forget it and move on.

Honestly, this is fairly sound advice. Confidence confidence confidence. "Hey, it was nice catching up with you the other day. Was thinking about getting a drink after work on (insert date) <----INSERT A DATE. Don't leave it open ended. <----, interested in joining me this time?" -- If she accepts, go do it, go for it, and be straight up. Flirt. Try, but not too hard. If it goes well, ask her out on an actual date at the end of your time together. Movie, dinner, walk on a trail, whatever. If she backs off, let it go.

Solid work PDX. Less making fun of her, more straightforward in my opinion. (Who knows, degen could have ordered a skinnymochaawfulwhatsit himself)...

what else is there to order? Who goes to Starbucks to order black coffee?

What about the mutual friend route? I could plan a lunch with the 3 of us and just chat in a more comfortable setting and then ask her for a walk or a drink later (next week). Although it's October and -10 now so walks along the river aren't as attractive.

Or is meeting with the mutual friend too 'roundabout', wussy and vague?

degenerasian wrote:what else is there to order? Who goes to Starbucks to order black coffee?

Me?

And I agree with BSF and PDX. No need for the mutual friend. You could just ask to join her for another cup of coffee and then ask about the other activities.

I happen to like their plain black coffee very much as well.

I got sucked in then, I got a Caffe Mocha (sort of in between, not black but not super fancy)

If I ever get single, I'm looking to PDX and BSF for advice. Sounds good to me. I also agree with Rush that inviting a third wheel is not a good idea. It just raises the likelihood that you end up a friend-with-no-benefits.

degenerasian wrote:what else is there to order? Who goes to Starbucks to order black coffee?

What about the mutual friend route? I could plan a lunch with the 3 of us and just chat in a more comfortable setting and then ask her for a walk or a drink later (next week). Although it's October and -10 now so walks along the river aren't as attractive.

God no. That's a horrible idea. PDX's plan sounded perfect.

It's Halloween. Drag her to a party/bar. You'll be luckier than the QB at the prom. If you really want to go all in dress like a pumpkin latte from Starbucks.

*Dating advice from old married guy.

I think my only concern is how soon is too soon?
I hadn't seen her in months.. didn't even know she had broken up so I lost all contact.

Now I meet her by chance for coffee and make friendly chit-chat.
I'm just afraid it I ask her out, it's only because I JUST found out she broke up.
Is that creepy? Or am I just worrying for the sake of worrying?

AB_skin_test wrote:I happen to like their plain black coffee very much as well.

It's pretty much the only thing I get when I go there.

degenerasian wrote:I think my only concern is how soon is too soon?
I hadn't seen her in months.. didn't even know she had broken up so I lost all contact.

Now I meet her by chance for coffee and make friendly chit-chat.
I'm just afraid it I ask her out, it's only because I JUST found out she broke up.
Is that creepy? Or am I just worrying for the sake of worrying?

It's in your head. Based on how often you see her, you probably won't have another chance before she has a bf again.

P.D.X. wrote:

degenerasian wrote:I think my only concern is how soon is too soon?
I hadn't seen her in months.. didn't even know she had broken up so I lost all contact.

Now I meet her by chance for coffee and make friendly chit-chat.
I'm just afraid it I ask her out, it's only because I JUST found out she broke up.
Is that creepy? Or am I just worrying for the sake of worrying?

It's in your head. Based on how often you see her, you probably won't have another chance before she has a bf again.

I could purposely see her more, she's just upstairs. I just hadn't bothered since she had a serious/steady bf. They were living together IIRC. I don't want to be the friendzone guy that visits her for no reason. I do that enough already with other girls.

The other day it was pouring rain after work and I had an umbrella. So I walked and shielded a girl 4 blocks to the transit station only to hand her off to her husband.

You have an opening. Take it.

Pussyfooting around will make you look weak. You don't need to act like a caveman, but making a move will show interest and confidence.

devilfluff wrote:You have an opening. Take it.

Pussyfooting around will make you look weak. You don't need to act like a caveman, but making a move will show interest and confidence.

Thank you, it's this balance that I struggle with.

degenerasian wrote:

devilfluff wrote:You have an opening. Take it.

Pussyfooting around will make you look weak. You don't need to act like a caveman, but making a move will show interest and confidence.

Thank you, it's this balance that I struggle with.

In college a girl gave me advice that steered me right. You are a nice guy, so even if you think you are being over the top aggressive, it won't come off that way. I once made a bet with a friend that I could get a girl to slap me by being over the top aggressive. Walked away with some numbers, no slaps. Seriously, there are no rules, no waiting periods. She is single, strike before someone else does! Like they say in sales, time kills all deals. Do it!

testuser2 wrote:It's Halloween. Drag her to a party/bar. You'll be luckier than the QB at the prom. If you really want to go all in dress like a pumpkin latte from Starbucks.

*Dating advice from old married guy.

This is exactly how I landed my wife. I was going to a Halloween party and invited her to join us. She asked what to wear, so I told her to "buy the sluttiest outfit she could find." I figured she'd realize I was joking. She didn't, and she did indeed buy the sluttiest outfit at the sex shop on her walk home from work. I was wearing a 70s pimp outfit, and I have to say, we put on the most disgusting display of bar hooking up in the history of bar hookups. Shameless. I miss those days...

I've said it many times over the years, but Halloween is the greatest night of the year for a single guy. Girls dress like sluts, and play the role. The costume liberates them to act like a complete whore and feel ok about it. The only danger, I have been to Halloween parties and thought it was full of 9s, then you see them on a normal day and realize they were all 4s.

I meant to comment on the mutual friend idea. That is buying a one-way ticket to the friend zone. That would absolutely kill any possibility of her ever being interested in you. Don't do it!

The Sybian wrote: I've said it many times over the years, but Halloween is the greatest night of the year for a single guy. Girls dress like sluts, and play the role. The costume liberates them to act like a complete whore and feel ok about it. The only danger, I have been to Halloween parties and thought it was full of 9s, then you see them on a normal day and realize they were all 4s.

Funny my wife and I went to a Halloween last weekend and ended up getting wasted and staying the night. On the way home the next morning we stopped for breakfast. I had brought a change of clothes, she was still in her costume. Not that she was dressed slutty or anything but i wonder how many of the old dudes in the diner thought I had just brought the hookup out to breakfast the next morning.

The Sybian wrote:…we put on the most disgusting display of bar hooking up in the history of bar hookups. Shameless. I miss those days...

The image of Syb with a pimp hat, dry-humping his lovely bride on the corner of a bar is cracking me up.

The Sybian wrote: She is single, strike before someone else does! Like they say in sales, time kills all deals. Do it!

That's why he ordered a macchiato. Coffee is for closers.

Numbers are for queers. I meet a girl and walk away with STDs.

POUNCE!

Do first, gain consent later! Ok jk on that part

Gunpowder wrote:Numbers are for queers. I meet a girl and walk away with STDs.

POUNCE!

Do first, gain consent later! Ok jk on that part

Yeah, but you walked up with the STDs, too.

AB_skin_test wrote:

The Sybian wrote: She is single, strike before someone else does! Like they say in sales, time kills all deals. Do it!

That's why he ordered a macchiato. Coffee is for closers.

I'm not that far yet, just a normal mocha.

maybe today! I might try the stupid pumpkin one!

AB_skin_test wrote:

Gunpowder wrote:Numbers are for queers. I meet a girl and walk away with STDs.

POUNCE!

Do first, gain consent later! Ok jk on that part

Yeah, but you walked up with the STDs, too.

BURN! No, seriously, it burns.

degenerasian wrote:

AB_skin_test wrote:

The Sybian wrote: She is single, strike before someone else does! Like they say in sales, time kills all deals. Do it!

That's why he ordered a macchiato. Coffee is for closers.

I'm not that far yet, just a normal mocha.

maybe today! I might try the stupid pumpkin one!

They're good, don't let these limp-wristed douchefrogs who think they are men because the one bad-ass thing they do is drink coffee black tell you otherwise.

I may drink a pumpkin spice latte but, after I finish it, I BURN THAT STARBUCKS TO THE FUCKING GROUND!

The Pumpkin Latte is quite good!

That was actually quite easy.

"Want to go for coffee?"

"SURE!"

While having coffee:

"There's a restaurant a few blocks away that has a Halloween lunch special tomorrow, want to go?"

"SURE!"

Somehow I still worry though, I'm just analytical and a worrier by nature. I need to cut that shit out.