Obama Administration Meltdown Thread

Keg · Post by **Keg** » Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:05 pm

Aren't folks supposed to get tax breaks to help cover the cost of insurance?

Post by **Sabo** » Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:22 pm

devilfluff wrote:Mine is not that expensive(either he is self employed or his company doesn't contribut very much), but the coverages aren't terribly different. I'm looking at an 80/20 coverage plan with a deductible/spending cap. I just don't have those #'s handy.

It's definitely the latter. He works for a well-known newspaper company that owns several dailies, and we all know how well that business is working these days.

devilfluff · Post by **devilfluff** » Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:51 pm

Sabo wrote:
devilfluff wrote:Mine is not that expensive(either he is self employed or his company doesn't contribut very much), but the coverages aren't terribly different. I'm looking at an 80/20 coverage plan with a deductible/spending cap. I just don't have those #'s handy.
It's definitely the latter. He works for a well-known newspaper company that owns several dailies, and we all know how well that business is working these days.

Is it Gannett?

Post by **Sabo** » Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:24 pm

devilfluff wrote:
Sabo wrote:
devilfluff wrote:Mine is not that expensive(either he is self employed or his company doesn't contribut very much), but the coverages aren't terribly different. I'm looking at an 80/20 coverage plan with a deductible/spending cap. I just don't have those #'s handy.
It's definitely the latter. He works for a well-known newspaper company that owns several dailies, and we all know how well that business is working these days.
Is it Gannett?

I'd rather not say the company, but it's a company that's very comparable to Gannett.

devilfluff · Post by **devilfluff** » Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:53 pm

I have a few friends who have complained(in more public avenues than this) that Gannett's updated medical benefits are brutal.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:03 pm

Hearst?

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:00 pm

The prez has decreed that insurance companies can continue policies/plans that do not comply with ACA, for one year. Including policies/plans which they have canceled. Three brief questions:

1) How the fuck can you pick and choose which parts of the law will take effect, and which parts you don't like that won't take effect? I thought we fought a war 238 years ago so one man could not make law for the rest of us.

2) How is this going to work? Especially if the insurance companies say, 'naw, we're good, we don't want to reinstate the policies/plans we cancelled last week (cuz we will make more money with new policies/plans, which was the whole fucking point).

3) Even were this decree legal and logistically possible, how the fuck does having my insurance policy cancelled next November (right after mid-term elections) instead of this November constitute fulfillment of your bullshit sales pitch, much less make a fuckwit of difference? Even though delaying the inevitable consequences (and in the process making the consequences quantitatively worse) is kind the governance model these days.

Rather than stop digging, this guy just grabs a bigger shovel. Too bad the GOP, being the retarded children they are, finally has figured out that fighting tooth and nail to stop Obamacare is fucking stupid--just let it (and Obama) destroy itself, while you sit back and giggle.

ETA: Oh, I'm sorry; I didn't read his entire statement. Here:

How The President Plans To Fix Obamacare

ETAA: In case this point is loss in my attempts at snark. This will have no practical effect--just empty words. The hundreds of thousands of people, if not millions, whom have lost policies to date will not have them restored (maybe a token handful, but to pick a number out of the air, 95% of those gone will stay gone). Cancellations that are planned but not yet executed will proceed. This is a lame duck bloviating. There are 50 insurance commissioners and a dozen insurance company CEOs who are gonna ignore this empty statement and go ahead and do their thing. As well as a congress of 535 clowns.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:36 pm

Jesus!

As a Canadian, I obviously do not have a financial stake in this ACA nonsense. But as a believer in the value to a society of socialized health care, I have to say that this may be the most fucked up major government policy initiative that I have ever seen.

Someone should tell the administration that winning a political battle is less the half of a victory. The triumph comes when the policy you fought so hard for actually begins to affect people's lives.

Football analogy: No one gives a shit who is up at half time.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:09 pm

Pruitt wrote:Jesus!

As a Canadian, I obviously do not have a financial stake in this ACA nonsense. But as a believer in the value to a society of socialized health care, I have to say that this may be the most fucked up major government policy initiative that I have ever seen.

Someone should tell the administration that winning a political battle is less the half of a victory. The triumph comes when the policy you fought so hard for actually begins to affect people's lives.

Football analogy: No one gives a shit who is up at half time.

It's America. They are worried about winning the next election the day after the last one.
When I met Howard in NY last year, we discussed the Canadian system.

Canada's plan was started in Saskatchewan in 1961 and once it worked, the rest of Canada province by province came on board. Shouldn't the US try this in one state first rather than invented something country-wide involving millions of people?

http://www.cbc.ca/history/EPISCONTENTSE ... PA4LE.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://scaa.sk.ca/gallery/medicare/en_insurance-act.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:32 pm

Didn't we basically do it in Massachusetts?

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:42 pm

Gunpowder wrote:Didn't we basically do it in Massachusetts?

Yes. And it was a disaster. For the first couple months.

The premiums for my firm are going down. And if I ditched the firm and bought solo through the exchange, it'd still be cheaper than the last few years' rates - though a different insurer so it may be a smaller network.

Scottie · Post by **Scottie** » Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:55 pm

Pruitt wrote:I have to say that this may be the most fucked up major government policy initiative that I have ever seen.

It's perhaps on par with the decision to use Metric in Canada.

Even staunch Obama-bots can't defend this one. It's a debacle. And it was right from the start. You never never never "go live" with a website unless it has been thoroughly QA'd. You certainly never go live with a website which will forcibly affect peoples' lives while it has ten thousand bugs and basically doesn't work. As much as I thoroughly despise Obama, watching this train wreck of an administration just isn't enjoyable even as schadenfreude; witnessing an American president be disastrous in so many ways is disheartening and worrisome to say the least.

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:11 pm

Scottie wrote:…watching this train wreck of an administration just isn't enjoyable even as schadenfreude.

Me neither. But there is a significant degree of joy I experience which has nothing to do with schadenfreude.

The best example is the joy I have resulting from the fact that he fucked up trying to get us into a war in Syria and failed miserably. I am not joyful because Obama failed; I am joyful because war is bad, and avoiding a war, even by mistake, is good for the country, both immediately and in the long run.

And the much larger sense of joy when things go wrong for the government and Obama rests in a fundamental and firmly held opinion I have formed about the future. That we have gone so far down the wrong path, with horrific, failed economic policies, that reform is impossible. And the only hope is complete collapse, followed by a significant restructuring and rebuilding.

Yes, 'the economy' is a big and nebulous, ill-defined thing, and I will spare you any further description. Another example--I have come more recently to a similar conclusion about the health care system in this country. Incremental (positive) change and reform are impossible. All we get are incremental worsening. Only when it falls apart completely will we get something rational and functional (other than the function of making a small elite fabulously wealthy and powerful).

As it is for health care, I think it is for the economic system. It is easy to grasp a similar conclusion regarding the political system (two parties that are both completely beholden to the big money interests, and whose major policies are indistinguishable from one another, eg regarding war, security state/NSA, wall street, pharma and health insurance companies).

Yeah, I get happy when the system, which I think is doomed to fail, cracks. Because then we can finally get on with whatever comes next. And when they succeed at prolonging the status quo, which is an accelerating loss of wealth, freedom and opportunity from the many, to the service of the few, I get really sad. And really pissed off.

But that is not at all joy at seeing my enemies vanquished and suffering. Hopefully I live long enough for that.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:28 pm

Pruitt wrote:
But as a believer in the value to a society of socialized health care, I have to say that this may be the most fucked up major government policy initiative that I have ever seen.

But in Canada, you have to wait 9 months to be treated when you are brought into the emergency room with a heart attack! And the Death Panels!

The problem with American politics is that very few politicians care about whether their policies help people, they care about the appearance that it will help and getting reelected. This can be ego driven, or financially driven because they are guaranteed huge corporate pay days when they leave the public sphere.

howard · Post by **howard** » Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:07 pm

I am holding way back. But I liked this one. I try to avoid paying much attention to Obama's public utterances, but this one, like his Syria speech, demand attention.

ObamaCare Clusterfuck: Obama's presser, the terror and pity

The level of failure of the biggest projects of our government over the past decade (Iraq; Afghanistan; various economic stimulus plots from Bush's tax rebate in 2007 to TARP, HAMP, and multiple rounds of QE money printing; even the NSA to keep their own biggest secrets) is kinda a pattern. One of the significant factors is the minds of the people inflicting these failures on us, and on the world.

howard · Post by **howard** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:09 pm

The October 2012 Pre-Election Jobs Report Was Faked

This was obvious at the time. Yeah, the source will be attacked, but Gov't investigations have begun:
Labor Department Says It Contacted Commerce on Jobs Charges

howard · Post by **howard** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:54 pm

Older Hill aides shocked by Obamacare prices

Keg · Post by **Keg** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:04 pm

howard wrote:Older Hill aides shocked by Obamacare prices

How much money do these guys make per year?

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:43 pm

Of course they're shocked. Health insurance is shockingly expensive. The premiums quoted in that article do not seem any higher than what we have been paying for our employees.

The Republicans insisted these people, who are used to employer-provided health insurance, buy through the exchange like individuals. So instead of having a small deduction in their checks, they have to actually see the premiums. And the premiums suck.

howard · Post by **howard** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:55 am

They promised it would be fixed. This promise was not possible to be fulfilled, as was obvious when claimed. Surprise, it still doesn't work. They'll spin it instead.

Just another benchmark. Carry on.

howard · Post by **howard** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:58 am

Sorry, I missed your last post here, Steve.

Steve of phpBB wrote:The Republicans insisted…

Of course. How silly of me to forget. The Republicans did it. Gotta tattoo this on my forehead.

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:00 pm

howard wrote:Sorry, I missed your last post here, Steve.

Steve of phpBB wrote:The Republicans insisted…
Of course. How silly of me to forget. The Republicans did it. Gotta tattoo this on my forehead.

C'mon now. If you read up on this you'll see I'm right. It wasn't the Dems who wanted to put federal employees into the exchanges.

howard · Post by **howard** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:05 pm

A nice article that takes down the NY Times puff piece from yesterday.

Obama Kept His Head in the Sand During Healthcare.gov Fiasco

I could give two fucks about Barry's psychology or his management style (or lack thereof). I see the results, and they have formed a clear-enough pattern that anticipating what he will do next is quite easy. I don't take this essay as deep insight, but amusingly interesting. And the projection of Barry's absence from active engagement on this initiative onto government banking policy of the past five years sounds about right.

ETA: comments are excellent (as is typical on that blog)

Yves Smith, on her excellent blog wrote:Um, Obama is a Republican with Democratic party identity politics protective coloring. He’s a huge admirer of Reagan, who expanded Federal deficits massively while promising to rein them in. But in classic “Nixon goes to China” fashion, it will take a putative Democrat to dismantle the New Deal, and Obama is still keen to achieve that end despite his ACA setbacks. And let us not forget that what made Obamacare into a Rub Goldberg machine was not the idea of having the Federal government pay for healthcare, which would have been comparatively simple to implement. It was the desire to provide for a faux “market” solution while further entrenching and enriching the health insurance companies.

And the Times closes the article with this vignette, clearly missing the irony:

“I’m absolutely sure we’re going to make sure this country provides affordable health care for every single American,” Mr. Obama told the donors. “And if I have to fight for another three years to make sure that happens, I will do so.”

Obamacare was never intended to cover all Americans. But Obama seems incapable of refraining from lying.

howard · Post by **howard** » Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:15 am

Millennials Abandon Obama and Obamacare
A majority of America's youngest adults would vote to recall the president.

Of course, this poll was conducted by a right-wing extremist organization with a long history of opposition to Barry (Harvard University).

Barry could give two shits about this, I would imagine. The rest of the Democratic party might be a bit concerned, as they have to stand for election again.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:52 am

I'm not surprised that a bunch of people who to this point have likely never had to waste a half second thinking about healthcare would want to recall the government healthcare President.

howard · Post by **howard** » Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:51 pm

Obama Says Income Disparity Defining the Challenge of Era

You know, fuck this guy. Fuck him hard. Because he has personally caused this processes to drastically accelerate. His decisions to hire Tim Geithner, rehire Ben Bernanke, and to not only protect Wall Street and the big banks, but to speed and amplify their enrichment. I could continue this list of his personal culpability for longer than you'd like to imagine.

Fuck You Obama. This is the single most offensive, hypocritical statement to ever escape his lying lips.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:57 pm

My generation is acting like a scorned ex-gf because they thought a politician who wasn't from the elitist rich white person background would at least steer the country in the right direction if elected.

A politician is a politician no matter his fucking color. And people gasp in horror when I tell them that I don't vote.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:03 pm

Johnnie wrote:My generation is acting like a scorned ex-gf because they thought a politician who wasn't from the elitist rich white person background would at least steer the country in the right direction if elected.

A politician is a politician no matter his fucking color. And people gasp in horror when I tell them that I don't vote.

That's why I voted for Rocky Anderson. Maybe I'm naive, but I think he would have at least tried to do the right thing. I also think that is why the powers that be will never allow him to win.

Scottie · Post by **Scottie** » Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:06 pm

Johnnie wrote:My generation is acting like a scorned ex-gf because they thought a politician who wasn't from the elitist rich white person background would at least steer the country in the right direction if elected.

They were low-info naive idealists to believe so. Every clown does not has a silver lining.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:27 pm

howard wrote:Obama Says Income Disparity Defining the Challenge of Era

You know, fuck this guy. Fuck him hard. Because he has personally caused this processes to drastically accelerate. His decisions to hire Tim Geithner, rehire Ben Bernanke, and to not only protect Wall Street and the big banks, but to speed and amplify their enrichment. I could continue this list of his personal culpability for longer than you'd like to imagine.

Fuck You Obama. This is the single most offensive, hypocritical statement to ever escape his lying lips.

It's a fall back position. Deflect the masses from his own incompetence.

The cliche is that "patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." Looks like that will have to be modified.

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:12 pm

Obama Lies Once Again (Income Disparity)

To understand how we are being screwed, start with making sense of debt/credit backed by nothing tangible. Financial shenanigans ensue. I wonder if Obama really understands this or not. But it makes zero difference if he is evil or incompetent in this regard.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:37 pm

Obama finally responds to Howard:

howard · Post by **howard** » Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:28 pm

howard · Post by **howard** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:14 am

Seymour Hersh on Obama's Syria clusterfuck. London Review of Books. WaPo at one point was planning to run this piece, but changed their minds. What difference does it make, right?

Whose sarin?

howard · Post by **howard** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:17 am

Text
Kerry’s Statement on Ukraine
Published: December 10, 2013

Following is a statement by Secretary of State John Kerry on events in Ukraine:

The United States expresses its disgust with the decision of Ukrainian authorities to meet the peaceful protest in Kyiv’s Maidan Square with riot police, bulldozers, and batons, rather than with respect for democratic rights and human dignity. This response is neither acceptable nor does it befit a democracy.

The crackdown on Occupy protests in fifty US cities was planned and coordinated by the White House. In the fucking West Wing of the White House. Executed simultaneously in over two dozen cities. With riot police, bulldozers and batons, in the middle of the night.

Just for the record. Our government did the exact same thing they now condemn. Our government will not hesitate for a second to do it again.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:41 am

It's that crazy sign language for the deaf guy again!

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:50 am

Best. Gif. Ever.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:51 am

Giff wrote:Best. Gif. Ever.

Worst.Giff.Ever.

rass · Post by **rass** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:57 am

The Sybian wrote:
Giff wrote:Best. Gif. Ever.

Worst.Giff.Ever.

Worst.Jif.Ever.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:59 am

rass wrote:

Worst.Jif.Ever.

Take it to the Apostate Thread, heathen! That is one of the greatest videos ever made, up there with Banana Man Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron. That woman is on a set that looks like a courtroom, so it must be true. How many examples of faulty logic and complete misunderstandings of scientific theory and process are in that video? Amusing response from some farmer.

Pasta Sauce, the Creationists Nightmare.