The Swamp

Now Ted has a problem.
http://www.businessinsider.com/ted-sexu ... ge-2017-11

wlu_lax6 wrote:Now Ted has a problem.
http://www.businessinsider.com/ted-sexu ... ge-2017-11

TED

Coming from you, I really thought you meant Leonsis.

I assumed the Jets head coach ; )

I mad the active decision to not give it away by going all caps.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... york-times

Oofta...

Nonlinear FC wrote:https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/20/16678094/glenn-thrush-new-york-times

Oofta...

That hat alone is pretty much a crime against humanity.

Like, we all know you can't judge these things by looks alone and all that but ... c'mon ... is the "actually she wanted to fuck me" defense really the right direction to go here?

Charlie Rose

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investig ... dd4d24935c

I have to say, there has been something a little too creepy about the way that entire morning show carries on. It's not just Charlie, they can all get a little inappropriate. But he has a way of leering that is... unsettling.

Nonlinear FC wrote:Charlie Rose

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investig ... dd4d24935c

I have to say, there has been something a little too creepy about the way that entire morning show carries on. It's not just Charlie, they can all get a little inappropriate. But he has a way of leering that is... unsettling.

He also inappropriately touched Margot Tenenbaum.

NO COMMERCIALS, NO CLOTHES

brian wrote:

Nonlinear FC wrote:https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/20/16678094/glenn-thrush-new-york-times

Oofta...

That hat alone is pretty much a crime against humanity.

Truth.

Fuck. Men suck.

Rep. John Conyers, Michigan (D)

The article details the process by which harassment claims are handled by Congress, and references a WaPo article from last week that reported that Congress' Office of Compliance has paid out more than $17MM in settlements (including, but not exclusively for, sexual harassment) in the last 20 years.

My issue with that one? Mike Cernovich (of right wing made-up pizza pedophile wing of "media") fed that to Buzzfeed. So who fed it to him? This is the part where the #metoo movement gets weaponized, and Dems are ill-prepared for that.

tennbengal wrote:My issue with that one? Mike Cernovich (of right wing made-up pizza pedophile wing of "media") fed that to Buzzfeed. So who fed it to him? This is the part where the #metoo movement gets weaponized, and Dems are ill-prepared for that.

Yeah, I saw that, but I'm not all that worried about any sort of weaponization. Unfortunately, this sort of thing is all too common regardless of political affiliation. If the GOP has any sort of advantage in this shit storm it's a lack of shame that allows some of them to celebrate when accusations like ones against Conyers come to light.

rass wrote:

tennbengal wrote:My issue with that one? Mike Cernovich (of right wing made-up pizza pedophile wing of "media") fed that to Buzzfeed. So who fed it to him? This is the part where the #metoo movement gets weaponized, and Dems are ill-prepared for that.

Yeah, I saw that, but I'm not all that worried about any sort of weaponization. Unfortunately, this sort of thing is all too common regardless of political affiliation. If the GOP has any sort of advantage in this shit storm it's a lack of shame that allows some of them to celebrate when accusations like ones against Conyers come to light.

Well, yes. They have another advantage, which seems to be the willingness to do anything to wound democrats (like collaborate with Russians) - so selectively leaking Conyers while hiding republicans is a problem for the Dems.

Basically, this is a part of the political arena that the democrats have no shot in. Franken may have to step down, while Roy Moore becomes a senator? Trump is president and Conyers may be gone? That's a real problem for the left.

tennbengal wrote:

rass wrote:

tennbengal wrote:My issue with that one? Mike Cernovich (of right wing made-up pizza pedophile wing of "media") fed that to Buzzfeed. So who fed it to him? This is the part where the #metoo movement gets weaponized, and Dems are ill-prepared for that.

Yeah, I saw that, but I'm not all that worried about any sort of weaponization. Unfortunately, this sort of thing is all too common regardless of political affiliation. If the GOP has any sort of advantage in this shit storm it's a lack of shame that allows some of them to celebrate when accusations like ones against Conyers come to light.

Well, yes. They have another advantage, which seems to be the willingness to do anything to wound democrats (like collaborate with Russians) - so selectively leaking Conyers while hiding republicans is a problem for the Dems.

And that's the part I don't think will be a problem. These stories are going to come out now, and no (R) or (D) will be able to hide from them.

I hope so? Because the Republicans seem pretty ready to selectively leak - and have. And that means the issue is now weaponized. Will the Dems follow suit? I am less sure of that.

tennbengal wrote:I hope so? Because the Republicans seem pretty ready to selectively leak - and have. And that means the issue is now weaponized. Will the Dems follow suit? I am less sure of that.

And if the Dems do weaponize in equal response to Reps, the Reps and RW media will have a fit that the Dems are playing dirty and politicizing this, while Dems are also the sexual predators. I'm sure if you polled RW media consumers, a majority think George Soros paid women to make up lies about Moore and Trump, and the entire DNC, and Liberal Media are coordinating to lie and make the sheep believe it. The danger with Franken doing the right thing and accepting responsibility, apologizing, admitting he acted in a disgusting manner is the Right feeling justified they can call Franken worse than Moore and Trump, because Franken admitted to his acts, while Moore and Trump didn't. If Franken and Conyers and the next Dem resign, we aren't going to see and Republicans resign or admit guilt, they will continue to attack the Dems who resigned, and they won't be there to respond. The GOP will maintain the high ground, continue to call themselves the Party of Responsibility and Family Values, because look, 3 Dems resigned, and not one GOP Congressman resigned! They are the immoral sexual predators, and accusing us of being what they actually are.

Ideally, the public wouldn't stand for it, but the GOP have doubled down on racism, nationalism, anti-Muslim rhetoric, and they control the entire Federal government, and overwhelmingly control State governments. We can't rely on the Free Market concept here, because propaganda and confirmation bias are not in our favor.

Exactly right. The Dems are genuinely ill-prepared to play this game. It's gonna be bad, like everything else.

tennbengal wrote:Exactly right. The Dems are genuinely ill-prepared to play this game. It's gonna be bad, like everything else.

Considering that David Vitter didn't resign, I certainly wouldn't count on any GOP harassers resigning. Maybe it's just the right thing to do for Dems to push out any harassers within their party. But they certainly shouldn't count on the GOP following suit, or on voters punishing the GOP for that imbalance.

Joe K wrote:

tennbengal wrote:Exactly right. The Dems are genuinely ill-prepared to play this game. It's gonna be bad, like everything else.

Considering that David Vitter didn't resign, I certainly wouldn't count on any GOP harassers resigning. Maybe it's just the right thing to do for Dems to push out any harassers within their party. But they certainly shouldn't count on the GOP following suit, or on voters punishing the GOP for that imbalance.

Exactly the guy I was thinking of. Vitter asked Jesus for forgiveness, so it was all good.

The Dems have to do the right thing. The people that do these things have to be exposed and go. If the R's don't do the right thing (and there is no reason to believe that they will unless the crimes are so heinous (that Rep party chief in Oklahoma for example) then so be it. The Republicans have already demonstrated how shameless they are. (Franken admitted guilt, Trump didn't and his accusers are all liar; that kind of shit). If the voters don't punish them then this country is even more broken than I think it is. When you read how the problem is dealt with on Capitol Hill then you see how tough the situation is for the victims.

"They are weaponizing our past sexual misconduct" is phrasing that doesn't really sit well with me.

mister d wrote:"They are weaponizing our past sexual misconduct" is phrasing that doesn't really sit well with me.

Well, it is what it is. If their past sexual misconduct doesn't affect them, but is used to slaughter Dems instead, that's a huge problem.

Conyers getting caught up in this is maybe the least surprising story ever. I'm eagerly hoping that Crimetown podcast takes on the Detroit City Council. The amount of corruption would make an third-world dictator blush.

tennbengal wrote:

mister d wrote:"They are weaponizing our past sexual misconduct" is phrasing that doesn't really sit well with me.

Well, it is what it is. If their past sexual misconduct doesn't affect them, but is used to slaughter Dems instead, that's a huge problem.

This is exactly right. The problem is, generally, those on the the left has scruples and they don't subscribe to the end justifies the means garbage. Conservative voters don't care if they have to vote for Trump, Roy Moore or whatever piece of shit that puts an R next to their name on the ballot. I don't see how that's really going to change because, generally, the left will always view pedophilia and sexual assault/harassment as awful activities that should immediately disqualify one from making important decisions for this country.

Giff wrote:

tennbengal wrote:

mister d wrote:"They are weaponizing our past sexual misconduct" is phrasing that doesn't really sit well with me.

Well, it is what it is. If their past sexual misconduct doesn't affect them, but is used to slaughter Dems instead, that's a huge problem.

This is exactly right. The problem is, generally, those on the the left has scruples and they don't subscribe to the end justifies the means garbage. Conservative voters don't care if they have to vote for Trump, Roy Moore or whatever piece of shit that puts an R next to their name on the ballot. I don't see how that's really going to change because, generally, the left will always view pedophilia and sexual assault/harassment as awful activities that should immediately disqualify one from making important decisions for this country.

This is why I think it's important to do the right thing though because I refuse to believe there's a majority of people in this country who feel this way and ultimately behaving that way will backfire. Maybe not in the short term unfortunately, but in the long term. If it doesn't...well, I don't want to contemplate that.

Giff wrote:The problem is, generally, those on the the left has scruples and they don't subscribe to the end justifies the means garbage.

Respectfully, that’s super bullshit right about now. “Those on the left” are corkscrewing themselves into the ground trying to find a way to both stand up for victims in a general sense and dismiss specific victims so as to not have to bury their own offenders. The ends are absolutely being used to justify the means.

And I’ll grant that on so many other topics, serious and not, I’d be totally on board with “if they don’t, we don’t”, but this is too serious.

brian wrote:

Giff wrote:

tennbengal wrote:

mister d wrote:"They are weaponizing our past sexual misconduct" is phrasing that doesn't really sit well with me.

Well, it is what it is. If their past sexual misconduct doesn't affect them, but is used to slaughter Dems instead, that's a huge problem.

This is exactly right. The problem is, generally, those on the the left has scruples and they don't subscribe to the end justifies the means garbage. Conservative voters don't care if they have to vote for Trump, Roy Moore or whatever piece of shit that puts an R next to their name on the ballot. I don't see how that's really going to change because, generally, the left will always view pedophilia and sexual assault/harassment as awful activities that should immediately disqualify one from making important decisions for this country.

This is why I think it's important to do the right thing though because I refuse to believe there's a majority of people in this country who feel this way and ultimately behaving that way will backfire. Maybe not in the short term unfortunately, but in the long term. If it doesn't...well, I don't want to contemplate that.

Doesn't matter - because majority doesn't rule anymore. This is a by-product of fixed elections and gerrymandering.

tennbengal wrote:

brian wrote:

Giff wrote:

tennbengal wrote:

mister d wrote:"They are weaponizing our past sexual misconduct" is phrasing that doesn't really sit well with me.

Well, it is what it is. If their past sexual misconduct doesn't affect them, but is used to slaughter Dems instead, that's a huge problem.

This is exactly right. The problem is, generally, those on the the left has scruples and they don't subscribe to the end justifies the means garbage. Conservative voters don't care if they have to vote for Trump, Roy Moore or whatever piece of shit that puts an R next to their name on the ballot. I don't see how that's really going to change because, generally, the left will always view pedophilia and sexual assault/harassment as awful activities that should immediately disqualify one from making important decisions for this country.

This is why I think it's important to do the right thing though because I refuse to believe there's a majority of people in this country who feel this way and ultimately behaving that way will backfire. Maybe not in the short term unfortunately, but in the long term. If it doesn't...well, I don't want to contemplate that.

Doesn't matter - because majority doesn't rule anymore. This is a by-product of fixed elections and gerrymandering.

No, those are real issues, but that's just an excuse. There's still 40 percent of people who don't vote and I refuse to believe they're OK with child molestation and colluding with hostile foreign governments, etc., etc., etc. This is all part of the same ecosystem. If those people aren't motivated to get rid of a government that protects sexual harassers and pedophilia, then again I go back to my oft-stated belief that it's time to cut bait on America.

I think we are there, Brian. Seriously.

I think things are now configured to where a select few billionaires push levers and we have 35% voting on race lines that will carry elections. I still think we crossed the line in 2016 and it isn't going back. And I think the reality is that the right will weaponize #metoo to their own ends, and are in the process of doing it. Erin Ryan predicted this really well here:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/after-al- ... too-moment

Here's the thing - "the party that holds harrassers responsible" is a one-way street and a lie. Trump is in the White House, so the Dems actually don't (can't) hold harrassers responsible. Roy Moore is gonna be a senator. David Vitter didn't go anywhere back in the day. The propaganda creep and lost of any sense of what is true is as bad as I can imagine.

mister d wrote:

Giff wrote:The problem is, generally, those on the the left has scruples and they don't subscribe to the end justifies the means garbage.

Respectfully, that’s super bullshit right about now. “Those on the left” are corkscrewing themselves into the ground trying to find a way to both stand up for victims in a general sense and dismiss specific victims so as to not have to bury their own offenders. The ends are absolutely being used to justify the means.

I think they only reason they are is because they're seeing just how blatant it is the mutherfucking POTUS is getting away with it and it's made some so outraged they're starting to do it. I'm certainly never one to blame the victim, but that's not the same as not being sure if you want Franken to resign which is where I am now. Two years ago, I wouldn't even be having this internal debate, but here we are.

tennbengal wrote:I think we are there, Brian. Seriously.

I think things are now configured to where a select few billionaires push levers and we have 35% voting on race lines that will carry elections. I still think we crossed the line in 2016 and it isn't going back. And I think the reality is that the right will weaponize #metoo to their own ends, and are in the process of doing it. Erin Ryan predicted this really well here:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/after-al- ... too-moment

I'm sure progressives during the Gilded Age felt the same way. Or French peasants in the 17th century.

America is a country that seldom tends to learn from its mistakes (or those of other countries) Unfortunately, it took a devastating depression to finally make Americans realize that income inequality was a serious issue. The powers that be have a lot more levers at their disposal than they did 100 years ago but in the end the pain for the ruling class will come. Unfortunately we're all going to suffer quite a bit until it gets to that point. Fortunately, those with means have a lot more options than they did 100 years ago. And we have a template of sorts at our disposal to see how things are going to go since history tends to repeat itself.

Maybe I'm a bit Pollyanna-ish but I still think we're at a tipping point it's possible to recover from. That's the last bit of optimism and hope I have, but it's there.

tennbengal wrote:Here's the thing - "the party that holds harrassers responsible" is a one-way street and a lie. Trump is in the White House, so the Dems actually don't (can't) hold harrassers responsible.

Why? To force an analogy, this isn’t the Steelers releasing Roethlisberger after his second rape accusation, these are for the most part imminently replaceable policy makers and voters. Beyond being right, showing you’re willing to hold anyone accountable gets way ahead of the cycle. And if there’s no cycle, you’re right and we’re dead and it doesn’t matter. But it’s the right thing on both sides.

https://twitter.com/nbcnewspr/status/934786512729886721

So much for owning this issue.

Maybe this can expedite leadership turnover.