The Swamp

Johnnie wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:00 pm Boogie to the Lakers. Now sign Rondo, plz. LOL.

Boogie was good with AD and Rondo. This might turn into a nice signing. He's 28 years old, now a full year off the Achilles injury.

Johnnie wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:38 pm

Pruitt wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:29 am

Johnnie wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:58 am

Not that I doubt Twitter, but I had to check and see if this is real.

It is simultaneously real and unbelievable.

ETA - it was a 2018 proclamation...

Just caught this now. Great perspective from the mayor.

New Dem front runner.

Like the first 20 responses are from pissed off or gloating Sonics' fans!

mister d wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:59 pm

Brontoburglar wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:18 amI've gotta be up in an hour to play golf. not sure I'm falling back asleep

Due to a 4 year old bed-mate having an accident at the in-laws house, I figured I’d be the only one seeing this trade in real time. Do you have some kind of serious wake-me-up phone alerts?

I was only up because I had a couple of beers the night before and when I drink right before going to bed I always slam a huge glass of water before I sleep because I always sleep better and feel better the next morning. So, of course, I had to piss.

And something stupid in my brain told me to check my phone. I try to never look at it when I'm awake in the middle of the night, but for some reason I did two nights ago because I was like "you just need to look to make sure nothing happened"

(and to answer the question, I don't, and I actually have it on DND mode from 11-7 every weeknight evening)

EdRomero wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:58 pm

Johnnie wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:00 pm Boogie to the Lakers. Now sign Rondo, plz. LOL.

Boogie was good with AD and Rondo. This might turn into a nice signing. He's 28 years old, now a full year off the Achilles injury.

Cousins looked like a statue in the Finals after he tore his quad in the first round but I thought he was decent for the Warriors before the quad injury. He averaged 16/8 in 25 minutes per game during the regular season and his per-minute stats and shooting stats were pretty close to what he was doing pre-Achilles injury. I also thought he showed a lot of toughness coming back and playing in the Finals even though his quad was clearly nowhere close to 100%. However, I don’t love the fit for the Lakers because LeBron should play PF and Davis should play C, but for some reason both those guys are stubborn about that.

Pruitt wrote: ↑Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:03 am Like the first 20 responses are from pissed off or gloating Sonics' fans!

Douchebags if you ask me. Be angry at Clay Bennett all you want, but taking it out on the mayor of Oklahoma City ten years later is straight douchebaggery in my opinion.

This goes down:



Which means:

Johnnie wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:30 pm

Heat have been most frequently mentioned team as a potential destination for Westbrook, pairing him with Butler for their two stars. I would enjoy that since Butler wants to be the man for a team and Westbrook dominates the ball.

Also, Dion Waiters (although he would likely be sent out with Dragic in any potential deal).

Simmons and House discussed potential trade partners in the podcast. Between them, Detroit, and Toronto, it would have to be crafty, but it would be doable.

Apropos of nothing, these are great:

Westbrook was never a very good shooter and his shooting stats have been on a sharp downward trajectory in the last few years. His postseason stats are particularly ugly. I’d steer clear of him, particularly given his hefty supermax salary.

Hes just a unique fit that dictates the makeup of the rest of the team too much. Still like the talent but definitely not the contract. Id steer clear too.

[reads NBA trade report]

“That’s crazy”

[reads the next NBA trade report]

“That’s crazy”

Ewwwww.

Rex wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:35 pm [reads NBA trade report]

“That’s crazy”

[reads the next NBA trade report]

“That’s crazy”

Edit:

Side benefit: Those State Farm commercials go away. And I have State Farm too.

Wow. Just happy to be out of Paul’s contract.

I wonder what CP3 is going to get flipped for.

Joe K wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:37 pm

They'll reunite all three when Durant requests a trade away from Kyrie in 18 months.

Johnny Carwash wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:04 pm

Joe K wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:37 pm

They'll reunite all three when Durant requests a trade away from Kyrie in 18 months.

Back in 2012, I was 100% convinced that those three and Ibaka would be a dynasty on the Thunder. If you had told me that seven years later Russ and Harden would both be on the Rockets, Durant was on his third team in 4 years and actually chose the Nets, and Ibaka had won a title in Toronto, my mind would be blown. At least OKC got Steven Adams and a million draft picks out of that whole sequence of events.

Giff wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:51 pm Wow. Just happy to be out of Paul’s contract.

is it worse than westbrooks?

How valuable are the draft picks OKC collected? Unless there are major injuries, I don't expect much of them to be lottery picks, and most late 1st round picks are lucky to become quality starters it seems. Having one less year of a crappy contract is significant, and this was forced on Presti, but I'm not sure getting an aging, grouchy Paul with a bunch of picks is the best return.

Maybe I'm jaded looking at what Ainge did with his later picks. He struck gold with the Nets sucking, but the additional later picks turned he obtained turned out to be bench players and busts and not enough to use to trade up when he wanted to.

EdRomero wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:12 pm How valuable are the draft picks OKC collected? Unless there are major injuries, I don't expect much of them to be lottery picks, and most late 1st round picks are lucky to become quality starters it seems. Having one less year of a crappy contract is significant, and this was forced on Presti, but I'm not sure getting an aging, grouchy Paul with a bunch of picks is the best return.

Maybe I'm jaded looking at what Ainge did with his later picks. He struck gold with the Nets sucking, but the additional later picks turned he obtained turned out to be bench players and busts and not enough to use to trade up when he wanted to.

I mean, a 2024 Rockets team doesn't guarantee to be really good and 2026 would likely be worse.

Yeah, and the Clippers could be like the Magic after getting McGrady and Grant Hill, and all it takes is for one or hopefully a few more of those picks end up in the top 5, so it's a good risk.

When I was listening to a bunch of trade scenarios, it was several players whose contracts would add up to Westbrook's. I would think that would be more desirable because they'd be easier to trade later and if not traded, they'd be shorter contracts than Paul's.

OKC probably had to make both of the big trades. They could have told Paul George to suck it up and kept their team together but after losing to Utah and Portland the past two postseasons they probably weren’t too optimistic about their ceiling.

I think Romero makes a good point about the picks, though. Almost all NBA stars are lottery picks but by the time you get outside of the top-10 or so it’s a total crapshoot. San Antonio and Toronto seem to consistently get value out of lower draft picks but they’re really exceptions in that respect (and I suspect it’s from their player development systems as much as from their scouting).

I forgot about Grayson Allen. He's still doing well: https://deadspin.com/grayson-allen-ejec ... 1836299774

EdRomero wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:12 pm How valuable are the draft picks OKC collected? Unless there are major injuries, I don't expect much of them to be lottery picks, and most late 1st round picks are lucky to become quality starters it seems. Having one less year of a crappy contract is significant, and this was forced on Presti, but I'm not sure getting an aging, grouchy Paul with a bunch of picks is the best return.

Maybe I'm jaded looking at what Ainge did with his later picks. He struck gold with the Nets sucking, but the additional later picks turned he obtained turned out to be bench players and busts and not enough to use to trade up when he wanted to.

OKC will have 4-5 lottery picks over the next half-decade and then supplement that with 8 other firsts over the next eight years. If you're building a team that doesn't attract max-level free agents because you're in the middle of Oklahoma, this is absolutely the way to do it. Especially when there were a few folks who cover the NBA who didn't think anyone would give up an asset for Westbrook.

ETA: I don't think Presti has to think about striking gold with the other picks because his picks could do it for him.

Yes to all that.

A_B wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:19 pm
I mean, a 2024 Rockets team doesn't guarantee to be really good and 2026 would likely be worse.

Hell, a 2021 Heat team doesn't guarantee to be that good either. Butler will be 31 in 2020-21 and Paul would be 35 assuming that OKC flips him over there. Paul won't make it the whole season and there's not much depth there otherwise + the free agent class next offseason isn't that good.

I'm intrigued as to how OKC supports this team over the next few years. They're not used to losing. Outside of the first season (which doesn't count because it was the first season) the Thunder has always been good. Are they going to become apathetic or are they going to embrace this wholeheartedly because it's OKC's only pro team?

Either way, I'm hoping this means I can snag some cheap tickets over the winter. I have the Lakers and Nuggets on my list of teams to see.

ONE MORE THING! The salary works if the Heat and Thunder do a Paul for Goran Dragic, James Johnson and Bam Adebayo swap. Bam would probably be the sticking point in that, but if they could pull that off somehow they'd get a good young player and then a point guard who they could potentially flip at the deadline for another pick.

Does Paul have positive value?

I initially thought of one of the Heat's pick becoming good, but I thought about them being a well run organization, in the East, and a place players want to play as preventing the pick from becoming really good. Anyway, I'm not as negative about Presti's horde of picks now as I was last night

And after saying later picks are pretty meaningless, I'm getting way too excited about the Celtics' later picks they made this year.

mister d wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:40 am Does Paul have positive value?

It's just that contract and other players seem not to like him and his age...

Brontoburglar wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:27 am I'm intrigued as to how OKC supports this team over the next few years. They're not used to losing. Outside of the first season (which doesn't count because it was the first season) the Thunder has always been good. Are they going to become apathetic or are they going to embrace this wholeheartedly because it's OKC's only pro team?

Bronto unwittingly brings up a most relevant point here. Is is "Thunder has" or "Thunder have"? When there's a collective term for a team what is the proper way to conjugate the verb? Because I've always used the plural, such as "the Lightning show that in the NHL, regular season predicts nothing in the playoffs", or "the Heat are combustible with CP and Butler".

mister d wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:40 am Does Paul have positive value?

I think he does, at least for the very immediate future. But he’s missed an average of 23 games per year over the last 3 seasons and last season was his worst shooting season since age 21. He was still very, very good in 2017-18 but the drop off last year was stark. I could see Miami making a play for him and if OKC can get some useful young players for him it’d be a big win for them.

It’s a strange move by Houston unless the Paul-Harden relationship truly had gotten toxic. If Paul could regain his form from 2017-18, they’d be a very strong contender. (That Rockets team was one of the best non-title teams in NBA history.) But his age and injury history weigh against that happening. Instead, with Westbrook, they’re taking the gamble that he can *finally* figure out how to have better shot selection. I know Houston preaches efficiency to an extreme degree but Westbrook seems like a lost cause on that front.

Someone who has better access to stats or watched OKC more than me can answer this. Westbrook has averaged double-digit assists these last few years, but is it more of the drive-and-kick to the three-point line variety or simply dumping it off as he drives down low?

L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:55 am When there's a collective term for a team what is the proper way to conjugate the verb? Because I've always used the plural, such as "the Lightning show that in the NHL, regular season predicts nothing in the playoffs", or "the Heat are combustible with CP and Butler".

I always use the plural, because singular team names are dumb and deserve to be shamed.

Joe K wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:57 amI could see Miami making a play for him and if OKC can get some useful young players for him it’d be a big win for them.

I just assumed he had negative value given all the picks + swaps involved. A seemingly fading Westbrook on that deal being worth 2 1sts, 2 swaps and a few good, cheap players seems weird?

mister d wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:56 am

Joe K wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:57 amI could see Miami making a play for him and if OKC can get some useful young players for him it’d be a big win for them.

I just assumed he had negative value given all the picks + swaps involved. A seemingly fading Westbrook on that deal being worth 2 1sts, 2 swaps and a few good, cheap players seems weird?

Miami probably shouldn’t trade for him but they seem desperate to pair Butler with a second marquee name. Also, this all seems to inevitably end with Wade “unretiring” his #3 for his Banana Boat brother CP3.

A_B wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:04 pm

Giff wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:51 pm Wow. Just happy to be out of Paul’s contract.

is it worse than westbrooks?

Many people think Westbrook's contract is the second-worst in the league, behind only John Wall. Westbrook (age 30) has 5 years/$207 mill left, Wall (age 28) has 4 years/$171 mill left, but is coming off a torn Achilles (for reference, Paul (age 34) has 4 years/$160 mill left).

When I first heard about the trade last night, I was thinking Paul to Minnesota centered around Andrew Wiggins (maybe Paul and Steven Adams for Wiggins, Teague, and stuff to make the money work, but after doing some research, maybe Paul and Gallinari instead). I was thinking that trade would help OKC bottom out and help out their draft position for their own picks. The T-Wolves also hold all their future draft picks and if they're trying to make a push at getting good, those picks don't have as much value since they expect them to be outside the lottery. Paul, Covington, Gallinari, and Towns would give them four legit starters, but it's probably not enough to get to the postseason (especially with Paul and Gallinari's injury history), as they're relying on a lot of youth to improve and have minimal depth.

Miami does seem like the most likely destination, though.