The Swamp

EdRomero wrote:

AB_skin_test wrote:If that happens like Espn is saying (Waiters/Bennett and a #1) for Love, the frozen envelope is hardly a drop in the bucket compared to the conspiracy theories people will throw around about this.

Cleveland won those last few draft lotteries against the odds too -- the long fix was in!

mister d wrote:The value is the thing I'm trying to understand. Seems like two very high picks (unless they're already accepted as complete busts) plus another 1st for a guy you have to trade or lose is a pretty nice package. Especially compared to getting a white Boston is willing to give up.

I think Boston has many more, and presumably higher, future first round picks to offer. Wiggins is the one trade asset Boston can't match. But actually, any Cleveland deal for Love should be compared to what Golden State is offering because they were the front runners before today.

Minnesota wants Klay Thompson, GS doesn't want to give him up, right?

Does this become funny again?

If I were Minnesota I'd probably trade Love for Wiggins straight up over any other team's offer.

Gunpowder wrote:

EdRomero wrote:

AB_skin_test wrote:If that happens like Espn is saying (Waiters/Bennett and a #1) for Love, the frozen envelope is hardly a drop in the bucket compared to the conspiracy theories people will throw around about this.

Cleveland won those last few draft lotteries against the odds too -- the long fix was in!

mister d wrote:The value is the thing I'm trying to understand. Seems like two very high picks (unless they're already accepted as complete busts) plus another 1st for a guy you have to trade or lose is a pretty nice package. Especially compared to getting a white Boston is willing to give up.

I think Boston has many more, and presumably higher, future first round picks to offer. Wiggins is the one trade asset Boston can't match. But actually, any Cleveland deal for Love should be compared to what Golden State is offering because they were the front runners before today.

Minnesota wants Klay Thompson, GS doesn't want to give him up, right?

Yes, but the talking heads on ESPN were claiming the LeBron signing may make them change their minds, especially if Wiggins is involved.

Gunpowder wrote:But - like Ryan said, there's not much of a market for Love. LA has nothing to give, right? Who else would both a) want Love and b) have good pieces to give up?

Without having more than a passing clue about cap room, Houston, OKC, and Golden State come to mind. Like, it looks like OKC could build a deal around Ibaka and still obviously be attractive. All these teams are good though, and their future picks would have little to no value.

Ryan wrote:

Gunpowder wrote:But - like Ryan said, there's not much of a market for Love. LA has nothing to give, right? Who else would both a) want Love and b) have good pieces to give up?

Without having more than a passing clue about cap room, Houston, OKC, and Golden State come to mind. Like, it looks like OKC could build a deal around Ibaka and still obviously be attractive. All these teams are good though, and their future picks would have little to no value.

I know Love is awesome but would you move Ibaka for one year of him?

Houston probably can't do it if they sign Bosh cap-wise.

BTDubs, I started paying attention to the NBA cap this offseason, and it's fuckin' asinine.

Gunpowder wrote:

Ryan wrote:

Gunpowder wrote:But - like Ryan said, there's not much of a market for Love. LA has nothing to give, right? Who else would both a) want Love and b) have good pieces to give up?

Without having more than a passing clue about cap room, Houston, OKC, and Golden State come to mind. Like, it looks like OKC could build a deal around Ibaka and still obviously be attractive. All these teams are good though, and their future picks would have little to no value.

I know Love is awesome but would you move Ibaka for one year of him?

Houston probably can't do it if they sign Bosh cap-wise.

OKC is going hard after Gasol, so maybe Love would be a backup plan.

Gunpowder wrote:I know Love is awesome but would you move Ibaka for one year of him?

I'm saying those are the teams that would have enough talent post-trade to make Love want to stay. A good rule of thumb would be to not leave Durant unless you're told. I'm not convinced Steph Curry alone puts the Dubs in that group, by the way.

Yes, NBA cap stuff is deep. If you can make it through trade exceptions, bi-annual exceptions, and Bird rights, you're 1% of the way.

Gunpowder wrote:

Ryan wrote:

Gunpowder wrote:But - like Ryan said, there's not much of a market for Love. LA has nothing to give, right? Who else would both a) want Love and b) have good pieces to give up?

Without having more than a passing clue about cap room, Houston, OKC, and Golden State come to mind. Like, it looks like OKC could build a deal around Ibaka and still obviously be attractive. All these teams are good though, and their future picks would have little to no value.

I know Love is awesome but would you move Ibaka for one year of him?

Houston probably can't do it if they sign Bosh cap-wise.

Well, OKC probably would be able to re-sign him. The rental idea would only apply to the mid tier teams, IMO.

I thought the rumblings about Love were that he wanted to play in a big market or especially return to California.

Gunpowder wrote:I thought the rumblings about Love were that he wanted to play in a big market or especially return to California.

I am sure his mind would change to have the opportunity to play with LBJ and have a shot at a championship.

Wow, I missed this until now. Good for Cleveland.

A few thoughts from catching up on this thread:

- Bennett was a huge bust last year. I think it took him like two weeks to even get to 10 points scored - total. His first double-figure scoring game was January 28. The dude totally flopped. That said, folks seem to think he's still redeemable.

- LeBron was WAY better than Wiggins at the same age. Wiggins is a fantastic prospect, but LeBron was an All-Star caliber player as a rookie. Wiggins was often not even the best player on Kansas. LBJ would have been the #1 pick after his junior year of high school - his game and body were just ridiculously advanced at a young age.

- Love would been a perfect fit for the Cavs. Unlike Bosh, he likes to rebound and bang. I suspect he'd be perfectly happy to try to average 20 boards a game and just score when LBJ, Irving and Wiggins can't find a shot.

Gunpowder wrote:If I were Minnesota I'd probably trade Love for Wiggins straight up over any other team's offer.

This was actually where me thinking I was totally off on valuations started. A friend of mine said Wiggins plus for Love and I couldn't believe Minnesota would get a plus on that.

I don't pay that close attention, but my understanding from casual local sports page reading is that Golden State would be willing to give up Klay Thompson plus, if that's what it takes to acquire Love.

Shirley wrote:- Bennett was a huge bust last year. I think it took him like two weeks to even get to 10 points scored - total. His first double-figure scoring game was January 28. The dude totally flopped. That said, folks seem to think he's still redeemable.

Not picking on you, Shirley, as "bust" is the constant refrain on Bennett from many corners of the internet. He had shoulder surgery last summer, so he could not work out. Thus, he came to camp overweight and out of shape. Since Gilbert said "playoffs or bust" last year, there was no way they could wait for Bennett to rehab and get into shape properly. Throw in that he was diagnosed with sleep apnea last year (had surgery to address it two months ago) and asthma (although that was known before the draft) and he was pretty much behind the eight-ball training camp started.

The other thing about Bennett was last year's draft sucked. Where would the best player in last year's draft get picked this year? 10 to 15? So saying that Cleveland would be giving Minnesota a former top pick doesn't mean as much as it usually does.

AB_skin_test wrote:Wiggins apparently hasn't signed with the Cavs, so Lebron might not have been able to talk about him. Maybe that's why he wasn't mentioned in the letter.

I wondered about his lack of mention in the essay.

SI did a remarkably good job keeping that story under wraps. I'd been almost certain in this age that it would have broken well before the official announcement. Here's a little backstory on how they handled it, but it still doesn't go into too much detail.

It seems like a lot of the gunning-for-a-scoop reporters (even Woj) are scrambling to toss something out there in the aftermath to compensate for not getting the story first.

Wow. Woj now saying Bosh will re-sign with Miami for 5 years.

e: obligatory Giff joke

In all seriousness the guy must really like the gay lifestyle in Miami. He's not me but the rockets were looking a lot better than whoever Miami can get, melo included.

Or maybe is the $118mm. That's a truckload.

The Rockets subreddit is in meltdown mode. Funny, funny stuff.

The people and media outlets (i've had the wwlis on in the background) who are pretending that Bron wrote this letter in SI cracks me the fuck up. Such idiocy actually insults Bron--it would be highly stupid for him to write something like this himself in the first place. (Old folks crack--it is more likely JFK actually wrote Profiles in Courage himself.)

Similarly, fans older than 12yo who get incredibly emotional and personally hurt when an athlete leaves town cracks me up.

howard wrote:The people and media outlets (i've had the wwlis on in the background) who are pretending that Bron wrote this letter in SI cracks me the fuck up. Such idiocy actually insults Bron--it would be highly stupid for him to write something like this himself in the first place. (Old folks crack--it is more likely JFK actually wrote Profiles in Courage himself.)

Similarly, fans older than 12yo who get incredibly emotional and personally hurt when an athlete leaves town cracks me up.

No doubt he had help, but a lot of that letter struck me as originating from his own words. But maybe I'm just gullible.

I'm not saying it does not represent his thoughts and emotions. I wouldn't know, though; I don't know the man.

Johnny Carwash wrote:

howard wrote:The people and media outlets (i've had the wwlis on in the background) who are pretending that Bron wrote this letter in SI cracks me the fuck up. Such idiocy actually insults Bron--it would be highly stupid for him to write something like this himself in the first place. (Old folks crack--it is more likely JFK actually wrote Profiles in Courage himself.)

Similarly, fans older than 12yo who get incredibly emotional and personally hurt when an athlete leaves town cracks me up.

No doubt he had help, but a lot of that letter struck me as originating from his own words. But maybe I'm just gullible.

Yeah, wouldn't surprise me if he wrote a first draft and it was brushed up from there. I also felt it was a lot more personal than something just written by a PR flack.

I actually kind of like the idea of the Heat still being semi-good, but getting crushed every time they play LeBron. Will be interesting to see how this affects his perception in Miami. If they had lost Bosh and were in a position to flat-out suck for the foreseeable future, I think LeBron would be largely forgiven and warmly received when he visits; now I think this turns into a real rivalry with LeBron getting roundly booed and (irrationally) accused of betrayal by the Heat fans who still care.

Meanwhile, it looks like Pau Gasol is leaving the Lakers while they throw big money at mediocre free agents. Shit. They need to learn that if you strike out with the hot chicks at the bar, it's OK to just go home, beat off, and save your best shot for another day.

HaulCitgo wrote:In all seriousness the guy must really like the gay lifestyle in Miami. He's not me but the rockets were looking a lot better than whoever Miami can get, melo included.

He and his wife do supposedly love the Miami culture. Which means I'd hate them.

http://adage.com/article/media/sports-i ... ve/294096/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Don't know where this was posted, may have been here. Anyway, this line:

"The reason we got this story, I think, is because LeBron's team trusted us not to turn it into a circus," Mr. Stone explained. "So to parlay it into a commercial endeavor ahead of time would have been inappropriate."

...seems like a dig at ESPN to me. I'll have Chris Broussard confirm.

HaulCitgo wrote:In all seriousness the guy must really like the gay lifestyle in Miami. He's not me but the rockets were looking a lot better than whoever Miami can get, melo included.

HaulCitgo wrote:Or maybe is the $118mm. That's a truckload.

Someone theorized Carmelo would re-sign with the Knicks under the theory "take the money now, get traded later." It makes sense with the way the cap will take off after the next TV contract (current one expires in two years).

I'd hate to offend GP by saying this sucks, so I won't.

I do think LeBron likes the idea of "coming home," but he's not doing it without seeing his chances of winning several titles with Miami is less likely than winning a bunch with Cleveland.

Or I could go back to my conspiracy theory. After THE DECISION, LeBron's people let David Stern know that he regrets how it happened and would want to come back someday. NBA sees how it would be an incredible story for him to return, and Cleveland then somehow wins three draft lotteries.

That will be even more believable after Commissioner Silver declares that the 2013 draft will be re-done, but with the original order unchanged. Due to Donald Sterling. Cleveland picks Victor Oladipo.

So after all the internet space wasted and blowhard analysts taking up the TV hours, LBJ signs just a TWO YEAR deal with an opt out possibility for NEXT SUMMER???? Jesus tits. Oh, but he's fully committed to staying with the Cavs. LBJ and Snooki appear to have the same concept of commitment.

Windhorst is saying that LeBron is committed long-term to the Cavs, and that the two-year deal has to do with wanting to see how upcoming changes to the salary cap and CBA shake out before signing a longer deal. Then again, nobody thought LeBron would actually opt out this year.

Johnny Carwash wrote:Windhorst is saying that LeBron is committed long-term to the Cavs, and that the two-year deal has to do with wanting to see how upcoming changes to the salary cap and CBA shake out before signing a longer deal. Then again, nobody thought LeBron would actually opt out this year.

Which can only mean he wants to maximize the amount of money he can make by signing a new max deal when the expected cash influx of the new TV deal kicks in. I have no problem with a guy getting as much as he can if that's the goal. If the goal is winning then he has to start giving a little because in the modern NBA the salary cap is a real consideration and his sucking as much money as possible for himself hinders his team from getting the parts around him to win. His endorsement income (estimates range from 38M-53M/yr) dwarfs his NBA income even at max levels. I know it's easy for me to say leave millions on the table, but he could easily make up the shortfalls with another endorsement.

Do any of you honestly think he's going to stick around if they win 50, are a 4th-5th seed, and lose in the second round?

Rams Fanny wrote:

Johnny Carwash wrote:Windhorst is saying that LeBron is committed long-term to the Cavs, and that the two-year deal has to do with wanting to see how upcoming changes to the salary cap and CBA shake out before signing a longer deal. Then again, nobody thought LeBron would actually opt out this year.

Which can only mean he wants to maximize the amount of money he can make by signing a new max deal when the expected cash influx of the new TV deal kicks in. I have no problem with a guy getting as much as he can if that's the goal. If the goal is winning then he has to start giving a little because in the modern NBA the salary cap is a real consideration and his sucking as much money as possible for himself hinders his team from getting the parts around him to win. His endorsement income (estimates range from 38M-53M/yr) dwarfs his NBA income even at max levels. I know it's easy for me to say leave millions on the table, but he could easily make up the shortfalls with another endorsement.

Do any of you honestly think he's going to stick around if they win 50, are a 4th-5th seed, and lose in the second round?

Yes, I think he'll stick around after two years, as long as the team shows improvement and a commitment to winning. My biggest concern is LBJ will start meddling in front office affairs like he did during his first stint with Cavs, when he basically demanded the team sign Zydrunas Ilgauksas to an expensive contract even though Z was on the downside of his career. If he lets David Griffin and Dan Gilbert do their jobs, then I think the Cavs will be able to make the deals needed to make the team better.