The Swamp

MLS proposes all 26 teams come to Orlando to resume season this summer

With no indication of when it could resume its season in home markets amid the novel coronavirus pandemic, MLS has proposed placing all 26 teams in the Orlando area this summer and playing competitive matches without spectators at the Disney sports complex and possibly other locations, multiple people familiar with the plan said.

YEAH YEAH YEAH..live sports I care about on FS1 Tomorrow.
Weston McKennie v. Gio Reyna

nice job FC Seoul
https://www.espn.com/soccer/fc-seoul/st ... -in-stands

Article at The Athletic this morning on a subject I hadn't really considered - when sports do return, and if they do so with fans in attendance under social distancing guidelines (reduced stadium capacity), how do you decide who gets tickets. Seems especially tricky in college FB where the donor relationship is such a big deal.

rass wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 7:42 am Article at The Athletic this morning on a subject I hadn't really considered - when sports do return, and if they do so with fans in attendance under social distancing guidelines (reduced stadium capacity), how do you decide who gets tickets. Seems especially tricky in college FB where the donor relationship is such a big deal.

With some of the science involved, particularly as to how far the virus travels when someone is yelling/singing (there was a study on a choir rehearsal where a very high number of people became infected), they're going to have to put railings on the field to keep players and coaches away from the stands, probably close sections that surround the tunnels between locker rooms and field, and so on.

I can see why the leagues would want to allow some fans, but I just don't see how it can work. How do you prevent people from massing together at bathrooms, concession stands, leaving the arena, etc. At T-Mobile, there's only one entrance and exit (except for emergency exits), so even if you limited capacity to say 7,000 instead of 18,000 you'd still have 7,000 people all pressed against each other trying to leave the arena after a game.

Sooner or later, they're going to reach the conclusion that we here all already know -- there will be no live sports or music in this country (on any kind of a medium to large scale) until a vaccine or herd immunity.

brian wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 11:53 am I can see why the leagues would want to allow some fans, but I just don't see how it can work. How do you prevent people from massing together at bathrooms, concession stands, leaving the arena, etc. At T-Mobile, there's only one entrance and exit (except for emergency exits), so even if you limited capacity to say 7,000 instead of 18,000 you'd still have 7,000 people all pressed against each other trying to leave the arena after a game.

Dolphins created a plan. Some highlights:

Hard Rock Stadium in Miami has a capacity of 65,000, but the Dolphins’ plan means that no more than 15,000 fans will be in attendance at any given time. Entrances are being altered so only half the doors will be open, requiring fans to stand in lines six feet apart upon entering the venue.....

From there security personnel would manage the crowd, having them enter in rows....

Fans would pre-book an arrival time ahead of the game, so their spot is maintained and entrances aren’t all hit at once from fans trying to find their seats....

Dolphins will utilize an order and pickup system at concessions stands, which would notify people from their seats when their order was ready...

Trying to imagine making someone sit in their seat for an extra 20-30 minutes (or longer) at the end of a game sounds like fun, too. Sounds like going to a game becomes about six hours from the time you line up to get in until the time you leave the stadium.

Yeah, I just don't see it working. I get why they're trying and I guess it really can't hurt to make all of the plans they want, but not sure how it's worth it to only get 15,000 fans in for a diminished fan experience. I'd rather watch a VGK game on TV if there's only 3,000 people in the arena. One of the things that makes it fun is having the stadium be packed and yelling at the top of their lungs. Without that really what's the fucking point?

Exit is section by section. Allow egress through emergency exits.

There will be a lot of hoops, which will probably reduce demand. A lot of people probably wouldn't be interested if they couldn't go in their usual family/friend/business groups. It would be a stadium of loner diehards spaced 2-3 seats apart.

Bathrooms would be my main worry.

MLS already holds fan sections back for some rivalry games. It's not really a big deal.

I've been thinking about the logistics of this since it was first rumored that the NWSL would hold a league tournament here in SLC. I will attend if fans are allowed (which isn't clear yet), but it'll be very weird having to sit separated from other groups. Will they allow fans to yell? Can they stop fans from yelling? If we assume fans will be yelling, how far apart do we need to be from each other? Can we yell through masks? Will it matter if it's day games versus night games, or how windy it is?

In case someone is curious ... https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2 ... ournament/

I've paid VGK $8400 for next season's tickets and they still technically owe me $600 for the four regular season games that are likely going to be cancelled for this year. I doubt they're going to actually refund the money for tickets for next year's season, so I might have just paid ahead for the 2021-2022 season, which hopefully I'll still be alive for.

P.D.X. wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 12:04 pmBathrooms would be my main worry.

Close two of every three urinals (wall-urinal-closed-closed-urinal-closed-closed...), close every other stall since it is an airborne virus, cover six foot sections of troughs in men's rooms (LA Coliseum, Carrier Dome), hands-free sinks/paper towels dispensers/air blowers, two openings, but one for in and one for out.

Sounds like heaven.

At least this likely really diminishes tailgating, if not eliminates it altogether (and I can see the NFL using this as a way to try to phase it out altogether to eliminate public drunkenness, fights, etc.).

Because of what I do for a living, I monitor some kind of niche news articles. Well, they used to be niche.

One of the biggest issues in opening up, by far, are restrooms. The logistics around the air movement, toilets flushing, and crowding are a nightmare.

No way in Hell I'm going to a live event until they have a vaccine or very solid treatment for this thing.

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 12:51 pm Because of what I do for a living, I monitor some kind of niche news articles. Well, they used to be niche.

One of the biggest issues in opening up, by far, are restrooms. The logistics around the air movement, toilets flushing, and crowding are a nightmare.

Toilet perv?

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 12:51 pm Because of what I do for a living, I monitor some kind of niche news articles. Well, they used to be niche.

One of the biggest issues in opening up, by far, are restrooms. The logistics around the air movement, toilets flushing, and crowding are a nightmare.

No way in Hell I'm going to a live event until they have a vaccine or very solid treatment for this thing.

I think crowding will be less of an issue because there will be fewer people in the seats and thus fewer in the bathrooms, and people are more cognizant of giving each other space.

Air movement can be addressed by requiring masks.

Except they'll probably close down a lot of bathrooms so they don't have to pay to disinfect them.

brian wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 12:25 pm I've paid VGK $8400 for next season's tickets and they still technically owe me $600 for the four regular season games that are likely going to be cancelled for this year. I doubt they're going to actually refund the money for tickets for next year's season, so I might have just paid ahead for the 2021-2022 season, which hopefully I'll still be alive for.

Bolts allowed me to either get a refund, or push the money to next year. I chose to push to next year.

mister d wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 1:30 pm Except they'll probably close down a lot of bathrooms so they don't have to pay to disinfect them.

Fair point.

brian wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 12:01 pm Yeah, I just don't see it working. I get why they're trying and I guess it really can't hurt to make all of the plans they want, but not sure how it's worth it to only get 15,000 fans in for a diminished fan experience. I'd rather watch a VGK game on TV if there's only 3,000 people in the arena. One of the things that makes it fun is having the stadium be packed and yelling at the top of their lungs. Without that really what's the fucking point?

My wife had a call with the Jets a couple weeks ago to plan out which games she wants to hold events at and do their partnership activities. My wife came home and just said, "it's so cute, the Jets think there are going to be fans at games." She doesn't have much more info than the rest of us, but she has been right about everything so far, including saying a lockdown couldn't be less than 2 months, when people thought our schools would reopen after one day for cleaning. It makes sense for the NFL to play games in empty stadiums, because of the TV money, but what about a league like MLS, where the money from ticket sales and concessions is more important? I can't imagine it makes sense for smaller leagues to operate without in-stadium revenue. Maybe MLS could, but smaller leagues can't.

Incredibly obvious point, but this all going to be what people are comfortable with going forward. I'm already disinclined to attend live events for a variety of reasons.* So I'm not really gonna feel deprived not going to a venue, and I'd certainly NEVER go if I felt that there was any danger to my health involved.

* - I stopped going to live football games, because it's incredibly boring now with TV timeouts. I was then pretty much ruined by having a good friend who basically controlled the Verizon suites at the Verizon Center/Cap One Arena. Not only was the event free, about 90 percent of the time he'd feed us and give us drinks. EXTREMELY difficult to shell out 3, 400 clams on a game with the family after that.

The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 1:56 pm

brian wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 12:01 pm Yeah, I just don't see it working. I get why they're trying and I guess it really can't hurt to make all of the plans they want, but not sure how it's worth it to only get 15,000 fans in for a diminished fan experience. I'd rather watch a VGK game on TV if there's only 3,000 people in the arena. One of the things that makes it fun is having the stadium be packed and yelling at the top of their lungs. Without that really what's the fucking point?

My wife had a call with the Jets a couple weeks ago to plan out which games she wants to hold events at and do their partnership activities. My wife came home and just said, "it's so cute, the Jets think there are going to be fans at games." She doesn't have much more info than the rest of us, but she has been right about everything so far, including saying a lockdown couldn't be less than 2 months, when people thought our schools would reopen after one day for cleaning. It makes sense for the NFL to play games in empty stadiums, because of the TV money, but what about a league like MLS, where the money from ticket sales and concessions is more important? I can't imagine it makes sense for smaller leagues to operate without in-stadium revenue. Maybe MLS could, but smaller leagues can't.

15,000 fans at $30 per ticket is $450,000. That's real money, if they can get 15,000 fans to come.

So much of this comes down to the economics of a particular team and sport, including not only what the normal economics are, but what they can negotiate. I'll bet MLS teams can negotiate their players down more than MLB can because MLS players can't afford to go a year without salary. So it'll come down to the cost of opening a stadium; how much is that? If an MLS team declares itself open, can fans still get refund from season tickets?

Aare most of the season tickets for the 2020 NFL season sold? What is the payment deadline? How many folks will just let their tickets go?

mister d wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 1:30 pm Except they'll probably close down a lot of bathrooms so they don't have to pay to disinfect them.

Not to mention the gender ratio at an NFL game is probably somewhere around 3:1 with more males. 20K fans means 15K males, a great many of whom will be going to the bathroom at halftime because "there's no lines because there are so few people here".

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 2:22 pm

The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 1:56 pm

brian wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 12:01 pm Yeah, I just don't see it working. I get why they're trying and I guess it really can't hurt to make all of the plans they want, but not sure how it's worth it to only get 15,000 fans in for a diminished fan experience. I'd rather watch a VGK game on TV if there's only 3,000 people in the arena. One of the things that makes it fun is having the stadium be packed and yelling at the top of their lungs. Without that really what's the fucking point?

My wife had a call with the Jets a couple weeks ago to plan out which games she wants to hold events at and do their partnership activities. My wife came home and just said, "it's so cute, the Jets think there are going to be fans at games." She doesn't have much more info than the rest of us, but she has been right about everything so far, including saying a lockdown couldn't be less than 2 months, when people thought our schools would reopen after one day for cleaning. It makes sense for the NFL to play games in empty stadiums, because of the TV money, but what about a league like MLS, where the money from ticket sales and concessions is more important? I can't imagine it makes sense for smaller leagues to operate without in-stadium revenue. Maybe MLS could, but smaller leagues can't.

15,000 fans at $30 per ticket is $450,000. That's real money, if they can get 15,000 fans to come.

So much of this comes down to the economics of a particular team and sport, including not only what the normal economics are, but what they can negotiate. I'll bet MLS teams can negotiate their players down more than MLB can because MLS players can't afford to go a year without salary. So it'll come down to the cost of opening a stadium; how much is that? If an MLS team declares itself open, can fans still get refund from season tickets?

Aare most of the season tickets for the 2020 NFL season sold? What is the payment deadline? How many folks will just let their tickets go?

First, I don't think we are going to see 15,000 fans at NFL games in September. I think we are going to see a Fall resurgence. I hope I'm wrong, but lets go with best case of limited fans.

I'll just speak on the Jets' situation, because I've seen a lot and don't have a clue about any other team. Not owning their stadium and controlling any of the seats or concessions, I'm guessing MetLife Stadium and whoever owns and runs it makes most of that money. Seeing the behind the scenes stuff that happens before games, it's shocking the sheer numbers of employees working those games. Thinking about scenes of the employees entering, there is no way they can do this. There are 1000s of security people and ushers, they all line up in the basement concourse and pass out jackets and vests from a warehouse room. That alone can't happen in a COVID world. I don't see how you can have a ticket taker at the gate. Granted it's all computerized, but people scan every ticket, no way you can do that from 6 feet. Are they going to do away with security patdowns and bag checks? Even at 10% capacity, there are just too many logjams at small choke points with close interaction. One asymptomatic ticket taker could infect 1000s of people. Football has more than double the roster of soccer, but probably 10 times the number of coaches and equipment managers and additional people on the field before and during games. The sheer numbers of people that would have to be tested and segregated is astronomical. For German soccer, I think there are 325 people allowed in a stadium for every game, and it seems like they are stretching it to segregate and test that many people. A coach left the hotel to buy toothpaste, and he is under strict quarantine for 14 days. Is the NFL going to do that for every ball boy or hotdog vendor? Until we have a vaccine or a borderline miracle treatment coupled with continued decrease in cases while opening up the economy, we just can't have large gatherings.

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 1:59 pm* - I stopped going to live football games, because it's incredibly boring now with TV timeouts. I was then pretty much ruined by having a good friend who basically controlled the Verizon suites at the Verizon Center/Cap One Arena. Not only was the event free, about 90 percent of the time he'd feed us and give us drinks. EXTREMELY difficult to shell out 3, 400 clams on a game with the family after that.

When we first started going out, my wife worked for a company that had a fully-catered box at Dodger Stadium (food, fridge full of beer/soda/water/mixers, liquor, dessert cart). Six to eight times a season, we went with free tickets and often brought friends. The only question was if we were going to get a parking pass or not, which we usually did.

Yeah, I have had pretty much no interest in paying for tickets since.

I should have mentioned the additional complication of season tickets with the Jets and Giants is the PSL. Season ticket holders had to pay as much as $20,000 for PSL to have the right to purchase season tickets. Refunding the ticket is one thing, but I don't know if the PSL holders maintain the PSL and just get a ticket refund. And if they do have limited fans, do they give them the option of a refund for 2020 tickets and they maintain the PSL and right to buy next year? I think you can sell PSLs on a secondary market, but I can't imagine you could get much for them right now. Who the fuck knows.

Then with the amount of corporate sponsor giveaways, I bet some teams lose money on games, but it's necessary to keep the sponsorship money coming in.

The leagues, the broadcasters, and the sportswriters appear desperate for sports to get going again, damn the consequences.

But, I'm surprised at myself - by how fine I am with them NOT playing until they can ensure the safety of the players, staff, employees, fans, etc.

I know other Swampers also feel this way, but I suspect that as a group, we are in the minority of opinion.

Tell me why this idea sucks ... what if rather than sideline sound or canned sound, you somehow got a "live feed" of like 20,000 households watching the home team and funneled it all through so no one person yelled "PENIS!!!" can be heard but it would ebb and flow with the match action? Is that in any way doable? The lack of sound build up on the Haaland goal was the weirdest part of watching last weekend.

mister d wrote: ↑Thu May 21, 2020 11:40 am Tell me why this idea sucks ... what if rather than sideline sound or canned sound, you somehow got a "live feed" of like 20,000 households watching the home team and funneled it all through so no one person yelled "PENIS!!!" can be heard but it would ebb and flow with the match action? Is that in any way doable? The lack of sound build up on the Haaland goal was the weirdest part of watching last weekend.

Privacy concerns for the kind of software that would be required is the only thing I can think of. It's a good idea, not sure if it's logistically do-able. Seems like it would be something cool if a league experimented with it.

Just starting to wrap my mind around/realize that the MLB owners and players are about to choke the life out of themselves for the third time in my lifetime. I got over 1981 eventually (I was 11 but watching the Reds have the best record in baseball and not make the playoffs and then dismantle that off-season hurt and took awhile to get over). I am not sure in hindsight I was as big a baseball fan after 1994 as I was before. I was still a fan, but it no longer consumed me like it did my rooting life up to that point.

They do this again, while other leagues are trying to find a way to make it work, well, wow. Tack on the owners' gutting of the minors, some of the proposed rule changes that I think are on their way (like no more extra innings or that weird runner on second thing), and I can see baseball just simply drifting off my radar in terms of giving a shit. That's astonishing really, for me personally to realize.

mister d wrote: ↑Thu May 21, 2020 11:40 am Tell me why this idea sucks ... what if rather than sideline sound or canned sound, you somehow got a "live feed" of like 20,000 households watching the home team and funneled it all through so no one person yelled "PENIS!!!" can be heard but it would ebb and flow with the match action? Is that in any way doable? The lack of sound build up on the Haaland goal was the weirdest part of watching last weekend.

I love that idea. I think you might need to still add some background sounds.

One benefit is that you could use home and away fans.

I'm curious to see what happens to the home field advantage if a lot of games are played with empty seats.

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Thu May 21, 2020 12:04 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Thu May 21, 2020 11:40 am Tell me why this idea sucks ... what if rather than sideline sound or canned sound, you somehow got a "live feed" of like 20,000 households watching the home team and funneled it all through so no one person yelled "PENIS!!!" can be heard but it would ebb and flow with the match action? Is that in any way doable? The lack of sound build up on the Haaland goal was the weirdest part of watching last weekend.

I love that idea. I think you might need to still add some background sounds.

One benefit is that you could use home and away fans.

I'm curious to see what happens to the home field advantage if a lot of games are played with empty seats.

Should go away. Study after study has shown that most of home-field advantage is just the human element of referees/umpires being intimidated by home crowds.

brian wrote: ↑Thu May 21, 2020 12:06 pm

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Thu May 21, 2020 12:04 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Thu May 21, 2020 11:40 am Tell me why this idea sucks ... what if rather than sideline sound or canned sound, you somehow got a "live feed" of like 20,000 households watching the home team and funneled it all through so no one person yelled "PENIS!!!" can be heard but it would ebb and flow with the match action? Is that in any way doable? The lack of sound build up on the Haaland goal was the weirdest part of watching last weekend.

I love that idea. I think you might need to still add some background sounds.

One benefit is that you could use home and away fans.

I'm curious to see what happens to the home field advantage if a lot of games are played with empty seats.

Should go away. Study after study has shown that most of home-field advantage is just the human element of referees/umpires being intimidated by home crowds.

Yeah, that's what I would expect, for that reason. But this would be a great natural experiment to test it.

brian wrote: ↑Thu May 21, 2020 12:06 pm

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Thu May 21, 2020 12:04 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Thu May 21, 2020 11:40 am Tell me why this idea sucks ... what if rather than sideline sound or canned sound, you somehow got a "live feed" of like 20,000 households watching the home team and funneled it all through so no one person yelled "PENIS!!!" can be heard but it would ebb and flow with the match action? Is that in any way doable? The lack of sound build up on the Haaland goal was the weirdest part of watching last weekend.

I love that idea. I think you might need to still add some background sounds.

One benefit is that you could use home and away fans.

I'm curious to see what happens to the home field advantage if a lot of games are played with empty seats.

Should go away. Study after study has shown that most of home-field advantage is just the human element of referees/umpires being intimidated by home crowds.

I would think baseball would maintain a slight home field advantage since teams can build around the dimensions of their park. Like building a faster, less HR reliant team to play in a larger stadium or cutting the grass higher for a speedier team. Not sure how much that still factors into modern baseball

I think by late july to august Texas will be pretty much all of the way open. Sports leagues are dependant on other states, so maybe no live sports yet, but I would almost guarantee a few sold out concerts. People here are emphatically sick of shit being closed, and give no fucks for the consequences.

Wonder if this affects the NBA's plans to return to action.

Would affect NCAA more, no?

Just psychologically. I don’t like it when the first report I hear from a guy is from the hospital.