Abortion Rights

[mister d]

The Dems can do nothing to Manchin. He holds all the cards. Primarying Manchin would just give the seat to the Republicans. Which doesn't make a difference on many issues (like the filibuster) but makes a difference on others (Justice Jackson, many other non-white non-male judges, multi-trillion dollar Covid relief bills).

Jackson was confirmed 53-47. Machin also voted for Gorsuch and Kavanaugh. At some point we have to stop profusely thanking him for the little shit he does and focus on the outsized harm, both in what he blocks and what he diminishes before agreeing.

[mister d]

I'd agree with you if the balance of the Senate wasn't 50/50.

If somehow tomorrow it became 51/49, I'd bet a lot harder that another senator would join Manchin in scripting all legislation rather than Schumer would get his 50 and lead aggressively forward.

[Steve of phpBB]

I agree with you D, but what exactly would the way the Dems establishment can convince Manchun and Sinema, Luca Brazzi-style, to accede to party-backed legislation and kill the filibuster? I’m not even saying this to be a prick, I’m really serious. What can they do besides withholding campaign funds or primarying their asses?

The Dems need to win Senate seats in states like PA and WI. Which means doing what it takes to get votes from lots of white people in their 50s or older.

Help us, Old White People! You are our only hope!

I'm just glad that I'm not yet as old as Alec Guiness was when Star Wars came out.

[Johnnie]

The DCCC chairman. Yikes.

[The Sybian]

The reaction from the Right here is maddening. Congressmen attacking the "Radical Left" for destroying all norms and decorum in leaking the draft Opinion. McConnell had me fuming with his speech. The Dems have no decency or regard for the institutions of government, and they want to create mass protests to intimidate the Court. Bitch, you supported the mother fucking President calling on armed protestors to invade the Capitol and kill the VP so he couldn't sign the Electors' ballots. You didn't allow an incredibly qualified and center RIGHT(!) Supreme Court Nominee to get a hearing. A RW pundit declared the leak "worse than January 6" because they "broke the sacred trust" of the judiciary, the only non-partisan branch of government.

The way the Right immediately had all these talking points lined up makes me believe the people claiming a Conservative leaked the draft. It actually makes sense for numerous reasons.

1.) Much like with all the shit that turned up during the Mueller investigation and the impeachment hearings, it lost all weight because we already heard all of the shocking details, slow rolled for a year or more, so nothing was surprising. If it all came out at once, peopke would have been shocked and outraged. Now, this will be a slow burn for months until the actual decision comes out, and there won't be nearly the backlash and outrage.

2.) The slimier politicians can shift the focus on the radical lefties destroying government by leaking. They are attempting to white wash January 6 by equating the Dems being worse, and draw focus away from 1/6 and all of the sitting Members of Congress getting rolled up in the investigation.

3.) This gives Repub legislatures and Governors a blueprint to outlaw abortions and have their statutes and enforcement mechanisms in place before the Court ruling comes out.

4.) The decision will come out closer to the elections, and get the backlash out now, and Pro-Choice Republican voters will be distracted by whatever fake fear mongering crisis or culture war issues they create between now and then.

The more I think about it, the more sense it makes.

[EnochRoot]

[degenerasian]

The DCCC chairman. Yikes.

The Democrats are like fire engines frantically rushing to the wrong fire.

[cerranoredux]

The reaction from the Right here is maddening. Congressmen attacking the "Radical Left" for destroying all norms and decorum in leaking the draft Opinion. McConnell had me fuming with his speech. The Dems have no decency or regard for the institutions of government, and they want to create mass protests to intimidate the Court. Bitch, you supported the mother fucking President calling on armed protestors to invade the Capitol and kill the VP so he couldn't sign the Electors' ballots. You didn't allow an incredibly qualified and center RIGHT(!) Supreme Court Nominee to get a hearing. A RW pundit declared the leak "worse than January 6" because they "broke the sacred trust" of the judiciary, the only non-partisan branch of government.

The way the Right immediately had all these talking points lined up makes me believe the people claiming a Conservative leaked the draft. It actually makes sense for numerous reasons.

1.) Much like with all the shit that turned up during the Mueller investigation and the impeachment hearings, it lost all weight because we already heard all of the shocking details, slow rolled for a year or more, so nothing was surprising. If it all came out at once, peopke would have been shocked and outraged. Now, this will be a slow burn for months until the actual decision comes out, and there won't be nearly the backlash and outrage.

2.) The slimier politicians can shift the focus on the radical lefties destroying government by leaking. They are attempting to white wash January 6 by equating the Dems being worse, and draw focus away from 1/6 and all of the sitting Members of Congress getting rolled up in the investigation.

3.) This gives Repub legislatures and Governors a blueprint to outlaw abortions and have their statutes and enforcement mechanisms in place before the Court ruling comes out.

4.) The decision will come out closer to the elections, and get the backlash out now, and Pro-Choice Republican voters will be distracted by whatever fake fear mongering crisis or culture war issues they create between now and then.

The more I think about it, the more sense it makes.

Ginny Thomas, you sly fox, you.

[tennbengal]

The reaction from the Right here is maddening. Congressmen attacking the "Radical Left" for destroying all norms and decorum in leaking the draft Opinion. McConnell had me fuming with his speech. The Dems have no decency or regard for the institutions of government, and they want to create mass protests to intimidate the Court. Bitch, you supported the mother fucking President calling on armed protestors to invade the Capitol and kill the VP so he couldn't sign the Electors' ballots. You didn't allow an incredibly qualified and center RIGHT(!) Supreme Court Nominee to get a hearing. A RW pundit declared the leak "worse than January 6" because they "broke the sacred trust" of the judiciary, the only non-partisan branch of government.

The way the Right immediately had all these talking points lined up makes me believe the people claiming a Conservative leaked the draft. It actually makes sense for numerous reasons.

1.) Much like with all the shit that turned up during the Mueller investigation and the impeachment hearings, it lost all weight because we already heard all of the shocking details, slow rolled for a year or more, so nothing was surprising. If it all came out at once, peopke would have been shocked and outraged. Now, this will be a slow burn for months until the actual decision comes out, and there won't be nearly the backlash and outrage.

2.) The slimier politicians can shift the focus on the radical lefties destroying government by leaking. They are attempting to white wash January 6 by equating the Dems being worse, and draw focus away from 1/6 and all of the sitting Members of Congress getting rolled up in the investigation.

3.) This gives Repub legislatures and Governors a blueprint to outlaw abortions and have their statutes and enforcement mechanisms in place before the Court ruling comes out.

4.) The decision will come out closer to the elections, and get the backlash out now, and Pro-Choice Republican voters will be distracted by whatever fake fear mongering crisis or culture war issues they create between now and then.

The more I think about it, the more sense it makes.

it's absolutely a conservative planned leak.

[Jerloma]

I feel like there are things that I've been saying to you people and anyone else who would listen for the the last 12-15 years that were treated with nothing but eye-rolling accusations of hyperbole and I just want to say...I'm here.

[Reaper]

Can I play dumb for a second? Why is there a vote coming at this point? This is a decided case, right? Is it actively being appealed? I mean, I know it's always debated and a major "issue" every four years (or two or whatever). But doesn't an appeal have to be filed by someone saying that something was missed or done incorrectly 50 years ago? What has changed about the case except the 9 people who would decide its fate?

[The Sybian]

Can I play dumb for a second? Why is there a vote coming at this point? This is a decided case, right? Is it actively being appealed? I mean, I know it's always debated and a major "issue" every four years (or two or whatever). But doesn't an appeal have to be filed by someone saying that something was missed or done incorrectly 50 years ago? What has changed about the case except the 9 people who would decide its fate?

Not a dumb question, the Court isn’t deciding on Roe, but a case called Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization. It’s overturning the precedence started with Roe, that states can’t completely limit a woman’s right to an abortion, as it extends to the Right to Privacy as applied to the States through the 14th Amendment. My Constitutional Law professor would get pedantic and say nothing in Roe stood after the 1992 case Casey v. Planned Parenthood, which held states couldn’t restrict the right to an abortion prior to viability (when a fetus could live outside the womb).

States have always tried to draft more restrictive laws and hope to do it in a way the Court could differentiate from the current law in order to remove the prohibition on fully restricting the right to an abortion. What I gather Alito is doing (I’ve only read analysis, not his draft opinion) is ignoring prior cases and flat out saying the Constitution doesn’t say the word “abortion,” so the right doesn’t exist and the states can decide. In the past, even when there was a Conservative majority on the Court, they never got a case with a facts pattern they could twist logic to find a way to overturn Roe. The current Court doesn’t give a fuck about doing things by the rules, and just says “fuck it, we are ignoring 50 years of precedence and just changing the meaning of the Constitution.”

The right to an abortion was an extension of vague rights granted in the Constitution (life, liberty, privacy), and the Court similarly extended other rights, by finding Unconstitutional laws prohibiting interracial marriage, gay marriage, criminalizing gay sex, criminalizing oral sex even between a consensual married couple… the list goes on, but Alito’s draft, if it is the final opinion, puts almost every right we have in jeopardy, except those very narrowly and expressly stated in the Constitution. It’s batshit crazy with unlimited ability to fuck individual rights, and almost certainly going to be exploited by the wingnutty religious Right. Expect some bonkers Christian Sharia laws drafted in every state. And passed in some.

[Jerloma]

Oh, they're undoubtedly coming for the gays next.

[govmentchedda]

Can I play dumb for a second? Why is there a vote coming at this point? This is a decided case, right? Is it actively being appealed? I mean, I know it's always debated and a major "issue" every four years (or two or whatever). But doesn't an appeal have to be filed by someone saying that something was missed or done incorrectly 50 years ago? What has changed about the case except the 9 people who would decide its fate?

Not a dumb question, the Court isn’t deciding on Roe, but a case called Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization. It’s overturning the precedence started with Roe, that states can’t completely limit a woman’s right to an abortion, as it extends to the Right to Privacy as applied to the States through the 14th Amendment. My Constitutional Law professor would get pedantic and say nothing in Roe stood after the 1992 case Casey v. Planned Parenthood, which held states couldn’t restrict the right to an abortion prior to viability (when a fetus could live outside the womb).

States have always tried to draft more restrictive laws and hope to do it in a way the Court could differentiate from the current law in order to remove the prohibition on fully restricting the right to an abortion. What I gather Alito is doing (I’ve only read analysis, not his draft opinion) is ignoring prior cases and flat out saying the Constitution doesn’t say the word “abortion,” so the right doesn’t exist and the states can decide. In the past, even when there was a Conservative majority on the Court, they never got a case with a facts pattern they could twist logic to find a way to overturn Roe. The current Court doesn’t give a fuck about doing things by the rules, and just says “fuck it, we are ignoring 50 years of precedence and just changing the meaning of the Constitution.”

The right to an abortion was an extension of vague rights granted in the Constitution (life, liberty, privacy), and the Court similarly extended other rights, by finding Unconstitutional laws prohibiting interracial marriage, gay marriage, criminalizing gay sex, criminalizing oral sex even between a consensual married couple… the list goes on, but Alito’s draft, if it is the final opinion, puts almost every right we have in jeopardy, except those very narrowly and expressly stated in the Constitution. It’s batshit crazy with unlimited ability to fuck individual rights, and almost certainly going to be exploited by the wingnutty religious Right. Expect some bonkers Christian Sharia laws drafted in every state. And passed in some.

Fucking Randy Barnett

[The Sybian]

Fucking Randy Barnett

Nope

[govmentchedda]

Fucking Randy Barnett

Nope

I can't seem to get that through my head.

[The Sybian]

Fucking Randy Barnett

Nope

I can't seem to get that through my head.

By far the best professor or teacher I ever had on any level. The guy is so far beyond genius, cool AF, and was the star on my intramural flag football team. He was a D1 WR, and still had wheels.

[DaveInSeattle]

What an absolute piece of shit...

[The Sybian]

This thread sounds right to me:

[Johnnie]

From the comments of that thread:



It kinda just makes sense from the aspect that Democrats aren't that Machiavellian. They might win more if they were.

Roberts said he was determined to figure out who did the leak. And it's not even going to be ridiculous whiplash on the part of Republicans who were so "OH MY GOD WHO LEAKED THIS!?!?" if it's found to be one of their own.

They'll just blame Democrats in the meantime and quietly acknowledge the truth, if at all, when the time comes -- because everyone will have forgot by then and they would've already come back into power somehow.

[Nonlinear FC]

I'm pretty sure no one is ever going to be found out here. And while we all know why, the wingnuts will just continue "believing" that this leak was orchestrated by a liberal law clerk.

[mister d]

[L-Jam3]

If Sinema and Manchin won't lift the filibuster, along with any of the 50 shitbags in the GOP, to protect black Americans' voting rights, then what's the chance they'll lift it for abortion?

Again, short of putting a gun against their heads and assuring them either their brains or their signature will be on the Yea vote to end the filibuster, what options are there?

[Johnnie]

I mean, look at what the Republicans are doing to the guy who brought up cocaine orgies.

But Democrats would rather go high when everyone else goes low.

So clearly nothing can ever be done ever. At all. For any reason.

I'm just waiting for the riots to begin, honestly.

[The Sybian]

I mean, look at what the Republicans are doing to the guy who brought up cocaine orgies.

But Democrats would rather go high when everyone else goes low.

So clearly nothing can ever be done ever. At all. For any reason.

I'm just waiting for the riots to begin, honestly.

Dems only attack when one of their own does something. Like Al Franken.

[Johnnie]

I mean, look at what the Republicans are doing to the guy who brought up cocaine orgies.

But Democrats would rather go high when everyone else goes low.

So clearly nothing can ever be done ever. At all. For any reason.

I'm just waiting for the riots to begin, honestly.

Dems only attack when one of their own does something. Like Al Franken.

Yup.

When a female senator needs to run a failed political campaign for president you just have to seize on the opportunity of someone from your own party being the target of a hit job masterminded by Roger Stone with the 'victim' bring a right wing nutter.

You just have to go high when all others go low.

[L-Jam3]

Looking more for the "chess game" of politics, sacrificing Franken, when he would be succeeded by a fellow Democrat in the Senate, seemed to me like a better idea than having him stay on and potentially lose donations. Now if the left would start doing that to those on the right, or at least the ones with some semblance of shame...

ETA: I'm actually about 60% serious here in terms of digging the dirt. Like is there some information out there on a Republican Senator in a state governed by a Democrat that would resign if some particularly damaging stuff came out? I get that for a huge portion of the right they could have a live video feed of the guy strangling a hooker and they'd still support him, but there's got to be someone out there, right?

[L-Jam3]

...well, maybe not a gay hooker.

[The Sybian]

...well, maybe not a gay hooker.

Naw, they'd think he was doing God's work ridding the world of gays.

[L-Jam3]

...well, maybe not a gay hooker.

Naw, they'd think he was doing God's work ridding the world of gays.

Shit, you're right. That would backfire. Let's go back to snorting coke off a gay hooker's dick, like that one girl wanted to do with Johnnie.

[Johnnie]

In Louisiana you have Democrat Governor John Bel Edwards with Republican Senators John Kennedy and Bill Cassidy.

In Kentucky you have Democrat Governor Andy Beshear with Republican Senators Mitch McConnell and Rand Paul.

I'm North Carolina you have Democrat Governor Roy Cooper and Republican Senators Richard Burr and Thom Tillis.

In Pennsylvania you have Democrat Governor Tom Wolf and Republican Senator Pat Toomey.

I'm Wisconsin you have Democrat Governor Tony Evers and Republican Senator Ron Johnson.

And that's it.

[The Sybian]

...well, maybe not a gay hooker.

Naw, they'd think he was doing God's work ridding the world of gays.

Shit, you're right. That would backfire. Let's go back to snorting coke off a gay hooker's dick, like that one girl wanted to do with Johnnie.

Johnnie should have let her and filmed it, just in case she runs for Congress as a Republican. Missed opportunity.

[mister d]

I didn't know people in the military could hold second jobs.

[Nonlinear FC]

Two, at that!

[Johnnie]

I didn't know people in the military could hold second jobs.

We can. It just cannot be political.

...well, maybe not a gay hooker.

Naw, they'd think he was doing God's work ridding the world of gays.

Shit, you're right. That would backfire. Let's go back to snorting coke off a gay hooker's dick, like that one girl wanted to do with Johnnie.

Johnnie should have let her and filmed it, just in case she runs for Congress as a Republican. Missed opportunity.

I forgot about that chick. We hung out a few times to go on dates and stuff, but she went back to therapy and she wanted to be just friends. Probably a good idea for both of us, really.

[Johnnie]

Ah, yes. It's the leak that's appalling. Not the overturning 50 years of precedent or that a colleague's wife was an excited participant in an insurrection. The leak is. Got it.

Get fucked, Roberts.

[The Sybian]

Ah, yes. It's the leak that's appalling. Not the overturning 50 years of precedent or that a colleague's wife was an excited participant in an insurrection. The leak is. Got it.

Get fucked, Roberts.

It's not just that Thomas' wife actively participated in planning an insurrection, the real problem is Thomas voted against releasing the text messages to Congress knowing his wife would be identified as texting Meadows plans for overthrowing our democracy. He failed to recuse himself and actively used his position to try and protect his wife in an investigation. I'm not calling you out here, but it drives me nuts when assholes respond to Ginny Thomas with "but Hunter's laptop!" I don't blame a politician for what their relatives do, but when they use their position to hide a crime, that's an enormous issue. If Joe Biden blocked the FBI from investigating Hunter, I'd call him and and be upset. Joe stepped back and called on the Justice Dept. to fully investigate and stay removed from the process.

[EdRomero]

Seeing Twitter theorizing that Alito was behind the leak because more is about to come out about him being involved in the January 6 plan of intervening to install Trump if the insurrection was successful delaying the vote. Nice distraction.

[A_B]

Ah, yes. It's the leak that's appalling. Not the overturning 50 years of precedent or that a colleague's wife was an excited participant in an insurrection. The leak is. Got it.

Get fucked, Roberts.

It's not just that Thomas' wife actively participated in planning an insurrection, the real problem is Thomas voted against releasing the text messages to Congress knowing his wife would be identified as texting Meadows plans for overthrowing our democracy. He failed to recuse himself and actively used his position to try and protect his wife in an investigation. I'm not calling you out here, but it drives me nuts when assholes respond to Ginny Thomas with "but Hunter's laptop!" I don't blame a politician for what their relatives do, but when they use their position to hide a crime, that's an enormous issue. If Joe Biden blocked the FBI from investigating Hunter, I'd call him and and be upset. Joe stepped back and called on the Justice Dept. to fully investigate and stay removed from the process.

You have his number?

[The Sybian]

Ah, yes. It's the leak that's appalling. Not the overturning 50 years of precedent or that a colleague's wife was an excited participant in an insurrection. The leak is. Got it.

Get fucked, Roberts.

It's not just that Thomas' wife actively participated in planning an insurrection, the real problem is Thomas voted against releasing the text messages to Congress knowing his wife would be identified as texting Meadows plans for overthrowing our democracy. He failed to recuse himself and actively used his position to try and protect his wife in an investigation. I'm not calling you out here, but it drives me nuts when assholes respond to Ginny Thomas with "but Hunter's laptop!" I don't blame a politician for what their relatives do, but when they use their position to hide a crime, that's an enormous issue. If Joe Biden blocked the FBI from investigating Hunter, I'd call him and and be upset. Joe stepped back and called on the Justice Dept. to fully investigate and stay removed from the process.

You have his number?

You don't?