2017 NFL Offseason

[Pruitt]

Just making sure that everybody saw The MMQB had an all-time draft and Dan Fouts took Ray Guy in the first round.

Unbelievable. Just one of the dumbest non-political things I have heard in a while.

[L-Jam3]

Don Hutson over Jerry Rice? Yeah alright

Allow me to play Devil's Advocate for just a moment here. While Jerry is the GOAT, Hutson was Babe Ruth for receivers. For example:

1. He led the NFL in TDs 8 times in 9 years. Not merely receiving touchdowns, which he did 9 out of a 10-year stretch, but total TDs.

2. His 1942 Season (albeit with WWII starting to take some players out of the game) was pretty damn remarkable. 74 REC, 1211 Yards Receiving, 17 Receiving Scores in 11 games. First, if that's prorated over a full 16, that turns into 107 Receptions, 1761 Yards Receiving, and 24.7 TD (I put the decimal as TDs are a little inconsistent for all but the best receivers anyway).

3. Secondly, that total of 17 receiving TDs still sits at tied for 5th in NFL history. Out of the 12 times that was equaled or bettered, one occurred ,in 1951 in 12 games (CrazyLegs Hirch, 17), one occurred in a 14-Game inaugural AFL season in 1961 (Bill Gorman, 17), one occurred in a 12 game season in 1987 (GOAT, 23), and the other 9 occurred in 16 game seasons starting in 1984. It was tied or bettered twice in the last 10 years ('07 Moss with 23, '11 Gronk with 17).

4. Getting the Ruthian level of his stats, the #2 guys in '42 Season were 27 Receptions, 571 Receiving Yards, and 8 TDS.

5. His 99 Career TDs still sits 11th all time. It stood for 44 years until Steve Largent passed him.

I think Jerry Rice is the #1 Receiver of all time. All I'm saying is that Hutson at least has a colorable argument.

[A_B]

I think Jerry Rice is the #1 Receiver of all time. All I'm saying is that Hutson at least has a colorable argument.

Nailed it.

[Gunpowder]

Don Hutson over Jerry Rice? Yeah alright

Allow me to play Devil's Advocate for just a moment here. While Jerry is the GOAT, Hutson was Babe Ruth for receivers. For example:

1. He led the NFL in TDs 8 times in 9 years. Not merely receiving touchdowns, which he did 9 out of a 10-year stretch, but total TDs.

2. His 1942 Season (albeit with WWII starting to take some players out of the game) was pretty damn remarkable. 74 REC, 1211 Yards Receiving, 17 Receiving Scores in 11 games. First, if that's prorated over a full 16, that turns into 107 Receptions, 1761 Yards Receiving, and 24.7 TD (I put the decimal as TDs are a little inconsistent for all but the best receivers anyway).

3. Secondly, that total of 17 receiving TDs still sits at tied for 5th in NFL history. Out of the 12 times that was equaled or bettered, one occurred ,in 1951 in 12 games (CrazyLegs Hirch, 17), one occurred in a 14-Game inaugural AFL season in 1961 (Bill Gorman, 17), one occurred in a 12 game season in 1987 (GOAT, 23), and the other 9 occurred in 16 game seasons starting in 1984. It was tied or bettered twice in the last 10 years ('07 Moss with 23, '11 Gronk with 17).

4. Getting the Ruthian level of his stats, the #2 guys in '42 Season were 27 Receptions, 571 Receiving Yards, and 8 TDS.

5. His 99 Career TDs still sits 11th all time. It stood for 44 years until Steve Largent passed him.

I think Jerry Rice is the #1 Receiver of all time. All I'm saying is that Hutson at least has a colorable argument.

I know all about Don Hutson. I also know he played in an era where some #1 overall picks skipped out on the NFL to be lawyers, and that no one else was really doing what they were doing offensively. You can have Don Hutson and I'll take Randy Moss and probably destroy you. Also, Babe Ruth was awesome but after everybody else started doing what he was doing, he was no longer lapping the field. Some guy named Jim Benson did the same thing in 1946 - it was a weird era.

I don't care if you (not you specifically) draft Don Hutson but to take him over any other WR? I'd think you're insane.

Jerry Rice lapped the field in an era where everyone else was trying to do the exact same thing.

[mister d]

Babe Ruth's present-day best case scenario is like a lefty only Lance Berkman.

[Gunpowder]

Night Train Lane is not the first CB off the board. Arnie Herber (who was otherworldly as a passer in 1936, relative to NFL norms through that point) isn't anyone I'd even heard of. Steve Van Buren was the same thing, but nobody in their right mind takes him before all other RBs.

I just think it was a guy trying to make a cute pick.

EDIT: I'd take Night Train really high, though. And I do understand that you are allowing these guys to acclimate to the modern era, hypothetically.

[brian]

Based on what I know about him if you're talking about a guy who played in the 50s who might actually be able to hang these days with the athletes out there now, Night Train Lane would be one of only a small, small handful.

[mister d]

Yeah, but whatever they lack in size and speed they'd more than make up in toughness and dedication and respect for authority and the troops.

[Gunpowder]

Based on what I know about him if you're talking about a guy who played in the 50s who might actually be able to hang these days with the athletes out there now, Night Train Lane would be one of only a small, small handful.

Certainly - I think he was like 6'2" 200 lbs back when tackles were about that. I am however assuming that in the hypothetical draft, these guys would be where they were with modern training and dieting.

[Gunpowder]

Yeah, but whatever they lack in size and speed they'd more than make up in toughness and dedication and respect for authority and the troops.

Don't get any '60s hippie players on your team though!

[L-Jam3]

While I agree Rice is the GOAT, Moss ranks #1 for me in terms of having natural gifts to play WR of anyone I ever saw, with Megatron a tight second. Owens sits #1 on the list of guys who worked themselves to become great on top of God-given ability. Harrison ranks #1 on the list of receivers who fucking killed a guy.

[Pruitt]

While I agree Rice is the GOAT, Moss ranks #1 for me in terms of having natural gifts to play WR of anyone I ever saw, with Megatron a tight second. Owens sits #1 on the list of guys who worked themselves to become great on top of God-given ability. Harrison ranks #1 on the list of receivers who fucking killed a guy.

Tangentially, and he certainly should not be part of any GOAT talk, but a guy I thought was great - and I just looked it up, he had a fairly short career - was Al Toon.

[Johnnie]

Tyrannosaurus rekt.

https://twitter.com/Panthers/status/891107888256647169

[Joe K]

Tyrannosaurus rekt.

https://twitter.com/Panthers/status/891107888256647169

An FS1 "personality" taking shots at a prominent black athlete? No way!

ETA: All posted within the past 2 days:

https://twitter.com/FoxSportsRadio/stat ... 8523476993
https://twitter.com/FoxSportsRadio/stat ... 4710135808
https://twitter.com/FoxSportsRadio/stat ... 1015305216
https://twitter.com/FoxSportsRadio/stat ... 3183979521
https://twitter.com/FoxSportsRadio/stat ... 5331983360
https://twitter.com/FoxSportsRadio/stat ... 2495215617
https://twitter.com/FoxSportsRadio/stat ... 7798517760
https://twitter.com/FoxSportsRadio/stat ... 0289821696
https://twitter.com/FoxSportsRadio/stat ... 1226037248
https://twitter.com/FoxSportsRadio/stat ... 2563938304

[DSafetyGuy]

I think FS1 missed an opportunity when they remade their website. Should have included an online store only selling dog whistles.

[Johnnie]

I had no idea they were this abjectly shit stirring. Holy crap. I thought it was just Clay Travis and occasionally Cowherd. But no.

Also, Nink will retire today. He'll be missed for sure.

[Joe K]

I had no idea they were this abjectly shit stirring. Holy crap. I thought it was just Clay Travis and occasionally Cowherd. But no.

Fox Sports has gone all in on Fox News-style race baiting as their counter to ESPN's perceived liberalism. I didn't even know about the Beckham or Bell takes until I looked at the Fox Sports Radio Twitter feed, but those are classic examples of code words directed at talented black athletes. And the notion that Cam is a fringe starter just one year after he won MVP on a 17-2 team is beyond words.

[Pruitt]

What a world. Stephen A. and this clown show and Skip Bayless have plum jobs. Almost anybody off the street could do better.

https://twitter.com/RealSkipBayless/sta ... s-cut.html

[mister d]

That's not really an out there prediction given he didn't specify a timespan. Has to be 50/50 or so, right?

[sancarlos]

https://twitter.com/RobertKlemko/status ... 3701370881

[Joe K]

Even by FS1's putrid standards this is absurdly offensive:

https://twitter.com/recordsandradio/sta ... 8376976384

Whitlock is an utter disgrace.

[Johnnie]

Holy Fuck. That's some of the most vile and racist shit.

They need to give this cartoon a sportswriter version:

https://twitter.com/thebsk1/status/892786883197112320

[Pruitt]

Ray Lewis' Convenient Excuse

The offending tweet...

https://twitter.com/nessnitty/status/89 ... -ray-lewis

[rass]

via Deadspin:

Fellow Inside The NFL panelist Phil Simms immediately expressed skepticism about Lewis’s tale, asking why this was the first time anyone had heard it. “Because everybody wanted to tell their side of the story,” Lewis answered before spewing a series of words that, if arranged differently, might have constructed a coherent idea.

[Pruitt]

via Deadspin:

Fellow Inside The NFL panelist Phil Simms immediately expressed skepticism about Lewis’s tale, asking why this was the first time anyone had heard it. “Because everybody wanted to tell their side of the story,” Lewis answered before spewing a series of words that, if arranged differently, might have constructed a coherent idea.

"Skepticism" is a bit strong. Almost felt as though Simms was helping Lewis flesh out the details of what is clearly a crock of total bullshit.

[Joe K]

Apparently Shannon Sharpe is pretty pissed about Whitlock's garbage:

https://twitter.com/shannonsharpe/statu ... 4135032836

Nessa posted that Tweet about Ray Lewis after Lewis had an on-air "debate" with Sharpe, in which Lewis spewed a bunch of incoherent nonsense.

SHARPE: But see, when I listen to Steve talk, he says I like how he went from sitting to kneeling, but he never mentioned why Colin Kaepernick kneeled. Now the very thing that Colin Kaepernick was protesting is the very thing that President Trump encouraged on Friday, which is police brutality. Now John, Steve Bisciotti owned that team. And in 2015, you were there. You and I talked about it. Something happened to Freddie Gray. He lost his life from police brutality. I have yet to hear no one to talk about that. I have yet to hear Steve Bisciotti talk about that.

RAY LEWIS: I know, but-- I know, but-- so let's be very careful with that, for this simple reason. Right now there's over 200 plus murders in Baltimore. How many people you got talking about that? Nobody. So I'm just saying before you put somebody in a pickle to say--

SHARPE: No, no, I'm not putting him in a pickle, Ray-- let me ask you this. When Pooky shoots Willy, they find Pooky, where Pooky going? He going to jail. When these police shoot these unarmed black men and women, even on camera, where they going, Ray? Back on the force.

RAY LEWIS: Yeah.

SHARPE: That's what we're talking about. We're talking about the police brutality. See what they're trying to do is that when we talk about police brutality, it's all Chicago, it's all about Detroit, they talk about Baltimore. OK. You want me to come up with a solution that you helped put me in.

RAY LEWIS: I'm 100% understand what you're saying. And what I'm trying to tell you is there's no issue with what you're talking about with police brutality. We're sitting here as men.

SHARPE: Yes.

RAY LEWIS: So let's understand this. We're sitting here as men, and me and you, as men, ourselves, not watch nobody else deal with police brutality, I've lived it.

SHARPE: Oh, I know.

RAY LEWIS: So understand that. Just understand the dynamic of what we're talking about. I'm not talking about if this person stood out. It's not too many people. Say it for what it is. It ain't too many people going to stand up to go in the black neighborhoods and worry about black folks killing themselves. That's factual.

Lewis' "what about black on black crime" nonsense is the go to whenever right wingers want to dismiss concerns about racism.

[Pruitt]

What a complete idiot.

In both senses of the word.

[degenerasian]

When will they take Ray Lewis' statue down?

[Joe K]

I'm just waiting for all the NFL media members who pilloried Kaepernick for his socks or his shirts or his girlfriend's Tweets to chime in on the Michael Bennett arrest video. A black NFL star getting arrested and threatened at gunpoint for no reason would seem relevant to this discussion...

[sancarlos]

I'm just waiting for all the NFL media members who pilloried Kaepernick for his socks or his shirts or his girlfriend's Tweets to chime in on the Michael Bennett arrest video. A black NFL star getting arrested and threatened at gunpoint for no reason would seem relevant to this discussion...

You know they will just adopt and parrot the police statement.

[brian]

Seems like casino surveillance footage would back up one of the conflicting accounts. And if Bennett does sue should be a slam dunk to subpoena it.

[brian]

For the record I'm more inclined to believe Bennett than LVMPD.

[Johnnie]

That was Kid from Kid N' Play dressed as Kaepernick? Holy shit.

https://youtu.be/2fpMVHJP2a8

[DSafetyGuy]

For the record I'm more inclined to believe Bennett than LVMPD.

Dave Zirin is right there with you.