The Swamp

I, for one, was enjoying Brian's comparisons.

brian wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:04 amDude, it's just a joke. Chill. It's too early to be stanning any of the candidates, which means it's really too early to be trying to tear them all down as well.

Why? If "must have own beliefs" is a personal disqualifier, its ok to disqualify O'Rourke.

brian wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:04 am

Joe K wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:00 am

brian wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:56 am He's basically Slobodan Milošević, yet somehow even more Serbian looking.

“Not a genocidal monster” is exactly the same thing as “single best person in a country of 300 million plus to serve as the most powerful person on Earth.”

Dude, it's just a joke. Chill. It's too early to be stanning any of the candidates, which means it's really too early to be trying to tear them all down as well.

Plus, there's no such thing as the "single best person" to be President. Especially when all of these folks will be dealing with the same, Joe-Manchin-as-the-swing-vote-and-that's-if-things-go-well Congress.

You guys can live out 2016 in your heads all over again every day as much as you want. I'm moving on and listening to what these fuckers have to say.

(Also, what Steve said. This isn't some mathematical equation where we can deduce that Elizabeth Warren is "93 percent pure progressive" but evil 'ol Beto is only "36 percent pure".)

We're still months away from the first fucking debate much less any voting. It's annoying this need to just tear down whichever candidate doesn't lick your balls exactly right, politically speaking.

Pretend I'm not too lazy to photoshop you in here ...

brian wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:13 am You guys can live out 2016 in your heads all over again every day as much as you want. I'm moving on and listening to what these fuckers have to say.

(Also, what Steve said. This isn't some mathematical equation where we can deduce that Elizabeth Warren is "93 percent pure progressive" but evil 'ol Beto is only "36 percent pure".)

We're still months away from the first fucking debate much less any voting. It's annoying this need to just tear down whichever candidate doesn't lick your balls exactly right, politically speaking.

The process is ridiculously long. Shows how the election and politics in general is a growth industry. These early days are like pre-season football. We can all remember the "President Giuliani" momentum and Scoop Jackson (I am older), Lamar Alexander, Al Haig, John Edwards, Muskie etc., etc...

Nothing that happens now has any meaning, despite the media's attempts to add significance. The fact of the matter is that an Amy Klobuchar town hall in March 2019 has practically zero impact on the primaries. A by-product of the 24 hour news cycle. These nascent campaigns provide an easy and cheap way to fill time.

Granted lesser evil and all that, but isn't this exactly how Trump went about gaining credibility? "Don't even worry about him, he'll be gone by the time its down to 8 / 4 / 3 ..."?

Yeah, this country is definitely fucked if Beto O'Rourke somehow ascends to the presidency instead of Donald Trump. Better save some money to donate to Jill Stein in case he gets the nomination.

Can attest that a particular pose with a Beto shirt landed great results. Liberal women here in Texas love this guy.

And for whatever it's worth, since Nevada has the third-soonest primary I'm probably going to get to choose from at least about 10 candidates by that time and I very much doubt I'll be voting for Beto in the primary, but I'm not going to shit my Dockers and smash all my cellared imperial IPAs in disgust if he somehow wins the nomination.

And another thing, it's been literally 16 years since Democrats actually had an open field primary with lots of choices so I doubly don't understand the need to trash every single candidate that I don't personally love. It's counterproductive, annoying as all fuck and is just going to make what is already going to be a miserable fucking 20 months even worse.

Who the fuck cellars an IPA?

Can't tell if people are just trolling each other in here.

The only candidate that is a problem for me (in terms of the top 10 or so) is Biden. His claim the other day that he'd be the most progressive candidate is fucking laughable. The guy was on the wrong side of history with Anita Hill, his backing of Delaware-based credit card companies is truly BAD, and in general he has a proclivity for stepping in dog shit in fairly spectacular ways.

I loved him as a VP, but he's really not an ideal candidate. I guess you all are waiting for him to officially announce, but hoo boy is he not where the base (apparently) lives right now.

But, you know, I'd like to see what he brings to the discussion. I think he lives in the general zone of Beto and Klobuchar (not a centrist, maybe, more of a mainstream democrat with pragmatic tendencies.)

mister d wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:26 am Granted lesser evil and all that, but isn't this exactly how Trump went about gaining credibility? "Don't even worry about him, he'll be gone by the time its down to 8 / 4 / 3 ..."?

we'll see what the tv coverage is. The networks loved the joke of Trump during the primaries and gave him 99% of the coverage. Tried to cash in before he want away. They're still cashing in. Maybe for a 2nd term. The joke is on us.

No democratic candidate will be seen as a joke so they'll get equal tv time.

Yeah, that is actually a good point about people not taking Trump seriously because it was so early.

mister d wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:02 am "Imagine if the cute and cool but still nice guy from high school grew up to marry a really rich lady and now wants to be president, but only if you can tell him what his core principles are? And yes, he still has that hair and if its possible may have somehow gotten even taller?"

That was John Kerry and he almost won. Or did win depending on how you view the Ohio shenanigans.

A_B wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:06 am I, for one, was enjoying Brian's comparisons.

Co-sign. I laughed.

tennbengal wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:31 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:02 am "Imagine if the cute and cool but still nice guy from high school grew up to marry a really rich lady and now wants to be president, but only if you can tell him what his core principles are? And yes, he still has that hair and if its possible may have somehow gotten even taller?"

That was John Kerry and he almost won. Or did win depending on how you view the Ohio shenanigans.

John Kerry is Milhouse Van Houten next to B-to-the-O'R. Shaggy salt and pepper hair only gets you so far once you're 65 and look like a Moai

John Kerry - 2004



John Kerry - 2014 (ish)



I don't know what the fuck happened to your boy, but I'm surprised more people don't talk about it. If he were a she, there would've been a huge amount of coverage when he re-emerged on the scene as Sec. of State looking like Herman Munster.

Ryan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:53 pm

tennbengal wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:31 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:02 am "Imagine if the cute and cool but still nice guy from high school grew up to marry a really rich lady and now wants to be president, but only if you can tell him what his core principles are? And yes, he still has that hair and if its possible may have somehow gotten even taller?"

That was John Kerry and he almost won. Or did win depending on how you view the Ohio shenanigans.

John Kerry is Milhouse Van Houten next to B-to-the-O'R. Shaggy salt and pepper hair only gets you so far once you're 65 and look like a Moai

John Kerry is ketchup to Beto’s....sriracha?

That sounds pretty spot on to me.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... og/585259/

JFC.

Maybe I’m not as “well read” as some of you guys, or if I do read something I’m not great at “remembering” “the” “name” of the person who “wrote” “it.” But I do remember Sirota from a dustup last year where he accused Beto of breaking a pledge to not accept fossil fuel money by accepting donations from individuals who worked for oil companies. Lots of arguing about purity tests and the motive of the reporter. Huh.

rass wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:19 pm Maybe I’m not as “well read” as some of you guys, or if I do read something I’m not great at “remembering” “the” “name” of the person who “wrote” “it.” But I do remember Sirota from a dustup last year where he accused Beto of breaking a pledge to not accept fossil fuel money by accepting donations from individuals who worked for oil companies. Lots of arguing about purity tests and the motive of the reporter. Huh.

Yup.

This whole thing is very unsavory, to put it in bullshit DC tsk-tsk language.

I also want to commend the Chris Farley approach to that post.

Maybe I’m a dipshit, but if he did disclose the reason for his obvious bias, he might lose like 10% of his influence, no? Now he’s completely shot his credibility and probably some of Sanders.

From the editor of Guardian US:



The timing issue is obviously very significant as politicians hire journalists all the time.

And yet his association with Guardian was still in his Twitter profile as he attacked all of the other Dem candidates on Twitter for two months.

Yeah, the switch flipping from reporter to campaigner isn’t the last article if he’s still using his supposedly objective platform.

mister d wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:36 am Who the fuck cellars an IPA?

I have an almost full case of 120 minute in my cellar currently. Bottled in 2017, coming up on two years soon.

That’s a dumb joke but for a guy previously criticized by centrists as only having white make supporters (hence the whole “Bernie Bro” nonsense), I think it’s cool that he hired a brilliant young African-American woman for that position. You can question her politics, but she’s very, very smart.

teeteebee wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:45 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:36 am Who the fuck cellars an IPA?

I have an almost full case of 120 minute in my cellar currently. Bottled in 2017, coming up on two years soon.

Can’t get worse so good luck.

mister d wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:06 pm

teeteebee wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:45 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:36 am Who the fuck cellars an IPA?

I have an almost full case of 120 minute in my cellar currently. Bottled in 2017, coming up on two years soon.

Can’t get worse so good luck.

Thinking 3-5 years though I’m sure that’s batch by batch.

Probably drink one qtrly beginning in early ‘20.

Sirota is a zealous reporter, that's been unafraid to go after big names. His wife ran for office in Colorado on a very Bernie-esque platform. It's not like he's a hired gun to attack. His position has always been aligned with Bernie.

I hope Gravel makes it into the debate. His Twitter feed is pure fire.

teeteebee wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:35 am

mister d wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:06 pm

teeteebee wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:45 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:36 am Who the fuck cellars an IPA?

I have an almost full case of 120 minute in my cellar currently. Bottled in 2017, coming up on two years soon.

Can’t get worse so good luck.

Thinking 3-5 years though I’m sure that’s batch by batch.

Probably drink one qtrly beginning in early ‘20.

Ive read that the 120s are the only IPAs you should even consider aging.

govmentchedda wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:48 am Sirota is a zealous reporter, that's been unafraid to go after big names. His wife ran for office in Colorado on a very Bernie-esque platform. It's not like he's a hired gun to attack. His position has always been aligned with Bernie.

1. The point is, if he is cutting down other candidates while working for Bernie, but he is not disclosing the fact that he is working for Bernie, then he is lying.

2. I would have fucking hoped that after his months of largely false narratives about Hillary and the Democratic Party helped elect Trump, Bernie would have learned a lesson and avoided attacks on Democrats. So the fact that his people are cutting down other Democratic candidates - and the Democrats in general - really troubles me. I have kids. It is important to me that a Democrat take office in 2021.

3. I fear that (as with Nader), Bernie *did* actually learn the lesson from 2016, and really doesn't give a fuck about whether his attacks on Democrats are ultimately going to help re-elect Trump.

Those are fair points, but it’s interesting that I have yet to see similar arguments made about criticisms of Sanders. He’s been polling 1st or 2nd in every recent national poll, so I’m curious if you similarly feel that it would be irresponsible for Biden, Harris, O’Rourke, et al. to attack Sanders.