Ukraine

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:15 am

HaulCitgo wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:26 amHow many people are gonna die for Britney to play basketball?

Probably around none? Plus it's pretty messed up to look at this as being about playing basketball.

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:20 am

Seems pretty facile and wishful to think there will be no consequences for freeing the…….Merchant of Death. Just chalk it up to being an uncomfortable decision made under uncomfortable circumstances.

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:32 am

Steve of phpBB wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:15 am
HaulCitgo wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:26 amHow many people are gonna die for Britney to play basketball?
Probably around none? Plus it's pretty messed up to look at this as being about playing basketball.

I'm waiting with bated breath on his commentary on Griner's choice of attire when she gets off the plane.

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:37 am

Rex wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:20 am Seems pretty facile and wishful to think there will be no consequences for freeing the…….Merchant of Death. Just chalk it up to being an uncomfortable decision made under uncomfortable circumstances.

I guess I'm assuming there are plenty of merchants of death out there already.

Post by **brian** » Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:55 am

This particular one probably can't jump right back into the international arms trade considering he's persona non grata in any Western/EU country. Sucks that a bad guy gets out of jail but he has to spend the rest of his life in Russia which isn't exactly getting off scot free.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:56 am

Or just sell to them ourselves but at a higher than standard margin.

HaulCitgo · Post by **HaulCitgo** » Thu Dec 08, 2022 12:11 pm

Guess im putting a lot of stock into them wanting him back in the first place and then using up this kind of leverage to get him. Kinda like the US wanting the spy back that Russia wouldnt let go.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Thu Dec 08, 2022 12:31 pm

Looks like I have to queue up Lord of War to brush up on this guy. I read he was a CIA informant, so I'm not gunna get bent out of shape about trading this one dude for Griner. I'm sure he's retired.

And like any trade negotiations with foreign countries, this didn't just suddenly happen. This type of stuff happens for weeks and weeks and then finally pops off suddenly like we saw. Same thing with Beau Bergdahl when we traded 5 bad guys for him.

But like Delaware said, if I'm an American in jail for marijuana possession right now and I'm looking at this, I'm angry.

But apparently there's legislation on the horizon with bipartisan support to make marijuana Schedule II. So maybe there's hope.

In the meantime, I'm loving the memes, of course.

L-Jam3 · Post by **L-Jam3** » Thu Dec 08, 2022 12:36 pm

The easiest way for me to justify this is to simply say that we made the best of a bad situation. I'd rather answer to letting an arms dealer free than having to answer why I had the opportunity to bring an American home but chose not to.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu Dec 08, 2022 12:54 pm

Yeah, lets be clear. The people on the right mad about this aren't mad an american is coming home, they're mad about the type of american coming home.

(Also, if you believe the whole "it is better 100 guilty persons should escape than that one innocent person should suffer", this seems like a great trade.)

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Thu Dec 08, 2022 12:56 pm

In other Ukraine news, a pro-Putin politician was killed in a rocket attack. Surveillance video in the spoiler.

[+] spoiler

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Thu Dec 08, 2022 2:10 pm

brian wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:55 am This particular one probably can't jump right back into the international arms trade considering he's persona non grata in any Western/EU country. Sucks that a bad guy gets out of jail but he has to spend the rest of his life in Russia which isn't exactly getting off scot free.

This was my thinking. I doubt he can just jump in to the market and get weapons for Russia now that they couldn't get without him.

L-Jam3 · Post by **L-Jam3** » Tue Jun 06, 2023 9:00 am

Putin ordered a dam in Ukraine destroyed, so anybody who poo-pooed Russia's actions in this can get royally fucked. I'm pointing to you, Shitbag Candace Owens.

HaulCitgo · Post by **HaulCitgo** » Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:18 pm

Lot of death and dying about now. Prayers to the people. Hopefully that beginning of some sort of deal.

HaulCitgo · Post by **HaulCitgo** » Fri Jun 23, 2023 12:15 pm

Feels like the true beginning of the end. Dude is about the best source of true information from either side. The guy must have a lot of well trained and loyal soldiers not to be dead. How many different people trying to bury him about now.

https://apnews.com/article/putin-russia ... a8b03f6e62

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Fri Jun 23, 2023 7:24 pm

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Fri Jun 23, 2023 7:48 pm

Tweets are coming fast and furious about Wagner mercenaries now turning against Russia and now controlling city of Rostov. Some speculation that they may attack members of Russian Moscow military leadership. Defenses of Moscow said to be ramping up.

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Fri Jun 23, 2023 9:18 pm

Wagner is taking over?

Square Rob · Post by **Square Rob** » Sat Jun 24, 2023 4:41 am

Y’all, we might need a new thread. This doesn’t seem like a coup, but it’s something very close to. I get the sense that the fact that Prigozhin has spent so much time at the front has earned him genuine loyalty from his guys. And if some of what he’s been saying is true w/re Russian organization, running out of ammo, etc, the Russian troops at the front might not be that likely to be too opposed to his message.

And also, as has always been the case through history, relying on mercenary arms for lengthy engagements is a bad bad bad thing. Money can buy a lot of things but permanent loyalty is not one of them.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Sat Jun 24, 2023 6:19 am

This is like the end-game of "privatize everything!" in a comedy movie.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Sat Jun 24, 2023 11:10 am

HaulCitgo · Post by **HaulCitgo** » Sat Jun 24, 2023 11:13 am

Dude is (literally like on the highway) driving to Moscow with his soldiers. Uhhh... You might want to stop this guy Putin. Letting him rollup on you might not work out. Then again the knows this and hasn't stopped him so maybe he can't?

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Sat Jun 24, 2023 11:20 am

L-Jam3 · Post by **L-Jam3** » Sat Jun 24, 2023 11:51 am

tennbengal wrote: Sat Jun 24, 2023 11:10 am

I don't know whether he means the SouthEastern Conference or the Securities and Exchange Commission, but either one works!

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Sat Jun 24, 2023 12:00 pm

He 100% means southern college football.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Sat Jun 24, 2023 12:18 pm

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Sat Jun 24, 2023 2:50 pm

govmentchedda wrote: Sat Jun 24, 2023 12:00 pm He 100% means southern college football.

Yeah, you can throw UM and OSU fans in there. MI fans tracking planes in and out of Willow Run about various coaching recruitments is definitely a thing.

L-Jam3 · Post by **L-Jam3** » Sat Jun 24, 2023 3:06 pm

I was 90% sure they meant college football, but then I remembered that people were tracking Musk's plane and he got up in arms about it, and I imagined a bunch of guys really into finance posting on SecuritiesFrog about it.

EdRomero · Post by **EdRomero** » Sat Jun 24, 2023 3:17 pm

Just listened to BBC and the initial excitement has worn off. As always, fuck Putin and hopefully this starts something and helps Ukraine...but Prigozhin seems as bad or worse..so worse case scenario we could have a Lenin to Stalin situation. Also, it may have been a power play as Russian military bigshots were trying to get more power over Prigozhin and the Wagner Group, so he does this and now he stops with a brokered deal with a Putin puppet. This is all from what I heard on the radio and it just doesn't seem as optimistic as my twitter echo chamber.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Sat Jun 24, 2023 4:17 pm

Yeah, I've been hearing about this dispute for over a month now. It's all very much internal Russian posturing among generals and strongmen and highly unlikely to go too much further to help Ukraine.

That said, regardless of what this guys motives are, it's obviously sub-optimal for the Russians to have one of their more effective units sitting things out and/or ceding territory.

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Sat Jun 24, 2023 4:26 pm

It does seem like everybody ends up worse off at the end of this, especially the guy who has to live in Belarus

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Sat Jun 24, 2023 6:47 pm

The enemy of your enemy is your enemy with all this shit.

No reason for excitement. Whoever eventually replaces Putin will be worse than Putin.

EnochRoot · Post by **EnochRoot** » Sat Jun 24, 2023 9:52 pm

Johnnie wrote: Sat Jun 24, 2023 6:47 pm The enemy of your enemy is your enemy with all this shit.

No reason for excitement. Whoever eventually replaces Putin will be worse than Putin.

I can appreciate the cynicism, but in this specific instance, why must they be worse?

I mean, what was the point of invading Ukraine? Was it a shared goal of all Russian military strongmen? Would the strongmen not realize that Putin's ouster might galvanize the West's approach to ensure Ukraine's sovereignty?

I'm legit curious here.

Post by **brian** » Sat Jun 24, 2023 10:29 pm

EnochRoot wrote: Sat Jun 24, 2023 9:52 pm
Johnnie wrote: Sat Jun 24, 2023 6:47 pm The enemy of your enemy is your enemy with all this shit.

No reason for excitement. Whoever eventually replaces Putin will be worse than Putin.
I can appreciate the cynicism, but in this specific instance, why must they be worse?

I mean, what was the point of invading Ukraine? Was it a shared goal of all Russian military strongmen? Would the strongmen not realize that Putin's ouster might galvanize the West's approach to ensure Ukraine's sovereignty?

I'm legit curious here.

Yeah I’m kind of struggling to see how a replacement-level dictator is gonna be worse than Putin.

L-Jam3 · Post by **L-Jam3** » Sat Jun 24, 2023 10:50 pm

It took 25 years for Putin to consolidate the power he has now. His successor after his ouster won’t have the pull in the oligarchs and the military that Putin enjoys.

Now, if you’re worried that Putin’s successor would be a mere puppet to the oligarchs, then sure, that’s worse if you are worried about unpredictability. Sort of the devil you know vs. the devil you don’t.

Post by **brian** » Sun Jun 25, 2023 1:00 am

L-Jam3 wrote: Sat Jun 24, 2023 10:50 pm It took 25 years for Putin to consolidate the power he has now. His successor after his ouster won’t have the pull in the oligarchs and the military that Putin enjoys.

Now, if you’re worried that Putin’s successor would be a mere puppet to the oligarchs, then sure, that’s worse if you are worried about unpredictability. Sort of the devil you know vs. the devil you don’t.

I think this is a solid analysis but the oligarchs aren’t of one mind politically. In fact, this whole Ukraine mess is partly the fault of Putin trying to appease the right-wing oligarchs who long for the return of Russian prestige during the height of the Cold War and who don’t want to accept former Soviet republics who have embraced democracy.

There’s just as many who would be happy for Russia to be the Saudi Arabia of Europe. An oil-rich power that mostly cozies up to the West leaving them free to take in dough while paying mere lip service to any kind of international unity.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Sun Jun 25, 2023 11:09 am

Yeah, that was my thought, too. There is no one “the oligarchs”. Frankly, I’d rather chance regime change than live with Putin. (I’m not suggesting any CIA involvement, mind you.)

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Sun Jun 25, 2023 9:13 pm

I've got nothing to go off of. I just know that power vacuums yield some serious shit afterward and I don't think a "light" personality just takes control and everyone is cool with it.

But whatever happens happens. If Putin dies, he dies.

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Wed Aug 23, 2023 12:13 pm

Guess he fell out of the sky instead of a window...

HaulCitgo · Post by **HaulCitgo** » Wed Aug 23, 2023 12:20 pm

If u come for the king...