Trump Administration Meltdown Thread...

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:21 am

Colin Kaepernick wrote:This is not about the military, of course, if it were about the military, it's not like they didn't know what they signed up for.

Surely would be a well-received quote.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:42 am

Shirley wrote:Trump did start it. But it had nothing to do with that Congresswoman.

Again, I think this is wolf-crying. There are so many legit reasons to go after Trump. If we're going to make a big deal out of the way he handled a very delicate call to the family of a slain soldier, I think we're just helping his cause.

I have a more sympathetic view of the Congresswoman, but I agree with you that this uproar may help Trump's cause. He would much rather the 2018 and 2020 elections be about "who respects The Troops more" than about any type of substantive policy issues. Fair or not (and it's certainly unfair), GOP voters have had an ingrained view -- going back decades -- that Democrats don't respect the military, and it will take a lot more than Trump's awfulness to change that.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:55 am

Navy Times article about Don Shipley tracking down a 72 year old Trump supporter and 'Navy SEAL' and Stolen Valor'd the shit out of him.

Good. Fuck him.

Shipley said he contacted Navy Times after Fox News failed to retract the bogus piece.

Shipley provided copies of Garofalo’s official military records and Navy Times confirmed the records’ authenticity with the National Personnel Records Center and Naval Special Warfare Command.

And fuck Fox News.

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:12 am

EnochRoot wrote:Fuck John Kelly. He walked his credibility as a man and a father (along with his son's memory) into a fucking shredder.

One could say that he ruined his credibility when he agreed to work for the Trump Administration. No one associated with Trump is going to walk away unscathed. Trump is a dignity wraith.

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:14 am

Shirley wrote:I'm with nonlinear on this one. Tempest in a teapot. You don't take a call with the president on a speakerphone so other folks can listen in. At least not a call like that, when he's calling about your dead son. And if you listened in, you shouldn't try to use it to score political points. There are so many better ways to complain about Trump.

If Trump hadn't made this an issue by claiming that Obama didn't call service members families, then none of this would have come out.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:17 am

DaveInSeattle wrote:
EnochRoot wrote:Fuck John Kelly. He walked his credibility as a man and a father (along with his son's memory) into a fucking shredder.

One could say that he ruined his credibility when he agreed to work for the Trump Administration. No one associated with Trump is going to walk away unscathed. Trump is a dignity wraith.

Kelly oversaw Gitmo at a time when a number of abuses occurred there. He shouldn't have had much credibility even before he agreed to work for Trump.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:30 am

DaveInSeattle wrote:No one associated with Trump is going to walk away unscathed.

You know this isn't true, right? All the war criminals responsible for the Iraq War and the establishment of a global torture regime are still members in good standing of the US political establishment.

Kushner and Ivanka still attend the same parties as Chuck Schumer, Chelsea Clinton and other "liberal" members of the NYC elite. People like Conway and Spicer have already gotten speaking gigs and fellowships at Harvard. And Bannon is unquestionably an influential figure in GOP politics nationwide.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:44 am

Is Spicer getting the invite to that stupid awards show doesn't convince you that not only will they escape unscathed, but in better position going forward, I don't know what will.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:18 pm

mister d wrote:Is Spicer getting the invite to that stupid awards show doesn't convince you that not only will they escape unscathed, but in better position going forward, I don't know what will.

https://twitter.com/tormny_pickeals/sta ... 7205812224

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:20 pm

the entire left loving Duyba today is surreal.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:31 pm

degenerasian wrote:the entire left loving Duyba today is surreal.

A big reason why American politics keeps moving right is that the Democratic Party always defaults to meeting the GOP in the middle instead of taking principled stands. Bush was an awful President who set in place or accelerated many of the conditions that led to Trump. Yet Dems are so desperate to appear reasonable that they fawn over his appearances on Ellen and events with the Obamas.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:03 pm

This happens with just about every former President, though.

And the Bush family has been on record as anti-Trump for long time. This isn't some instance of "the left" fawning over Bush. It's reasonable people applauding reasonable-ness

Not everything has to be about some epic Left vs. Right struggle for supremacy.

DSafetyGuy · Post by **DSafetyGuy** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:05 pm

Gunpowder wrote:It's not the Republicans, it's the republicans that vote for them.

I think that's why there will be never-ending strikes at the Trump administration. If you are interested in turning things over to Democrats, you have to keep pointing out the mistakes/policy decisions/fuckups until you get to one that changes someone's vote.

Of course, if the lying, racism, sexism, anti-military stuff, and on and on hasn't gotten you by now, you're probably not changing, anyway.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:07 pm

And they seem to fucking love redemption. Nothing anyone does can be bad enough for them to give a lifetime "fuck you".

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:13 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:This happens with just about every former President, though.

And the Bush family has been on record as anti-Trump for long time. This isn't some instance of "the left" fawning over Bush. It's reasonable people applauding reasonable-ness

Not everything has to be about some epic Left vs. Right struggle for supremacy.

It sure would've been nice if a single member of the reasonable, "anti-Trump" Bush family actually endorsed Clinton in the General Election. I have the same criticism of Romney -- high profile Republicans criticizing Trump only goes so far if they don't actually back his Democratic opponent.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:21 pm

Romney had his chances. I've read anecdotes about him hating even being near Glenn Beck but he played along.

And all of those fuckers had a chance to essentially become President during the debate where the crowd booed the gay soldier but none of those fucks stood up. I would bet so many dollarz that if I could simulate hypotheticals, that would actually happen and that person would have at least won the GOP nomination if they were at least in the top 10 real, actual potential candidates that were there.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:23 pm

As for Bush, I softened on Bush near the end of his term. I can't see that happening with Trump.

I still despise Cheney and Santorum. Time doesn't make all of those cunts look better. And fuckin' Rumsfeld. And Rick Scott stealing drug testing money for his company by instituting tests for welfare recipients. Even though he was pretty good during Irma.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:37 pm

Shirley wrote:Trump did start it. But it had nothing to do with that Congresswoman.

Again, I think this is wolf-crying. There are so many legit reasons to go after Trump. If we're going to make a big deal out of the way he handled a very delicate call to the family of a slain soldier, I think we're just helping his cause.

This is where I wonder if Trump is crazy like a fox, or just plain crazy. This all started when a reporter asked him about the circumstances of 4 soldiers being killed in Niger, and why 12 days later he still hasn't spoken about it. Trump deflects by lying to deflect and blame Obama. Is this the outburst of a mentally defective man-child lashing out and having to deflect and attack? Or is this media manipulation genius, because the media has spent 3 days on Trump's phone etiquette, and we have yet to hear anything about the death of these soldiers, why they were in Niger, why they were supposedly ill-equipped, etc... Everything he says makes it worse, but is this intentional, so we keep talking about the side issue, while he avoids answering the really potentially damning questions? This happens almost daily, and I can't tell if it is intentional and a genius move, or if he is truly a doddering idiot with no self control or self awareness, who skates by on the real issues because of his insane idiocy.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:53 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:This happens with just about every former President, though.

And the Bush family has been on record as anti-Trump for long time. This isn't some instance of "the left" fawning over Bush. It's reasonable people applauding reasonable-ness

Not everything has to be about some epic Left vs. Right struggle for supremacy.

We've never in my lifetime seen former presidents unified against a current one like is the case right now. There are great reasons to hate on GWB, but the guy behaved with a modicum of class and maturity that Trump will never have. We'll never know, but I think it's fair to guess that Reagan, Ford and Nixon would also have been anti-Trump.

EnochRoot · Post by **EnochRoot** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:59 pm

Nixon would've dropped a 'Hold my beer' joke on Trump.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:49 pm

Johnnie - what is this?

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-of ... rder-13223

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:19 pm

sancarlos wrote:
Nonlinear FC wrote:This happens with just about every former President, though.

And the Bush family has been on record as anti-Trump for long time. This isn't some instance of "the left" fawning over Bush. It's reasonable people applauding reasonable-ness

Not everything has to be about some epic Left vs. Right struggle for supremacy.

We've never in my lifetime seen former presidents unified against a current one like is the case right now. There are great reasons to hate on GWB, but the guy behaved with a modicum of class and maturity that Trump will never have. We'll never know, but I think it's fair to guess that Reagan, Ford and Nixon would also have been anti-Trump.

Counterpoint: Reagan race-baited constantly (e.g. "welfare queens" and "young bucks"), including starting his campaign with an event in Philadelphia, Mississippi. And George W. Bush's campaign ran pushpolls in South Carolina insinuating that McCain had an illegitimate biracial child and mocked John Kerry's Purple Heart. Bush the First ran the infamous Willie Horton ad. So while I agree that Trump has a unique lack of tact and professionalism, he's also in many regards a logical successor to his GOP predecessors.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:30 pm

sancarlos wrote:
Nonlinear FC wrote:This happens with just about every former President, though.

And the Bush family has been on record as anti-Trump for long time. This isn't some instance of "the left" fawning over Bush. It's reasonable people applauding reasonable-ness

Not everything has to be about some epic Left vs. Right struggle for supremacy.

We've never in my lifetime seen former presidents unified against a current one like is the case right now. There are great reasons to hate on GWB, but the guy behaved with a modicum of class and maturity that Trump will never have. We'll never know, but I think it's fair to guess that Reagan, Ford and Nixon would also have been anti-Trump.

I'm talking about people softening on former Presidents. I agree with everything else.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:41 pm

The Sybian wrote:
Shirley wrote:Trump did start it. But it had nothing to do with that Congresswoman.

Again, I think this is wolf-crying. There are so many legit reasons to go after Trump. If we're going to make a big deal out of the way he handled a very delicate call to the family of a slain soldier, I think we're just helping his cause.

This is where I wonder if Trump is crazy like a fox, or just plain crazy. This all started when a reporter asked him about the circumstances of 4 soldiers being killed in Niger, and why 12 days later he still hasn't spoken about it. Trump deflects by lying to deflect and blame Obama. Is this the outburst of a mentally defective man-child lashing out and having to deflect and attack? Or is this media manipulation genius, because the media has spent 3 days on Trump's phone etiquette, and we have yet to hear anything about the death of these soldiers, why they were in Niger, why they were supposedly ill-equipped, etc... Everything he says makes it worse, but is this intentional, so we keep talking about the side issue, while he avoids answering the really potentially damning questions? This happens almost daily, and I can't tell if it is intentional and a genius move, or if he is truly a doddering idiot with no self control or self awareness, who skates by on the real issues because of his insane idiocy.

I think it's neither. It's just how Trump talks. Trump tweets about everything except the 4 dead soldiers. So the media are curious. Does this fucker not care? It's been 12 days and no word from the Whitehouse. So he starts off well. "It's a very sensitive issue, I don't want to make any statements until the families have been notified and I've called them personally". He should have stopped there. But then he goes off on a tangent trying to prove that he's the better president because not all presidents call all the time. "It's the toughest phone call to make and Obama didn't call every family". I know the point Trump is trying to make but you hear murmurs in the media because they hear what they want to hear.

Afterwards he gets asked 'what do you mean Obama didn't call everyone', "i meant all previous presidents not just Obama, if you don't believe me ask John Kelly."

Then the media runs with that. Then the Frederica Wilson thing on top of it.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:00 pm

Edit:

Ah, pilots.

We have a ginormous pilot shortage right now. They are sick of the bullshit (Here's an Atlantic article about it from 2011) and the up or out nonsense.

These issues were identified a while ago. Articles on Google go back to 2009. The civilian sector pays better, treats you better, and doesn't deploy you. It's not even about the ridiculous money thrown at them. They just wasn't good quality of life and less stress.

tennbengal wrote:Johnnie - what is this?

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-of ... rder-13223

Alrighty. Google-Fu time.

Here's the original executive order signed by Bush 6 days after 9/11 granting authority of the Ready Reserve to their service secretaries:

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=61504

So this new executive order added:

"The authorities available for use during a national emergency under sections 688 and 690 of title 10, United States Code, are also invoked and made available, according to their terms, to the Secretary concerned, subject in the case of the Secretaries of the Army, Navy, and Air Force, to the direction of the Secretary of Defense."

688 and 690 of Title 10 (the role of armed forces in the United States Code) deal with (when combined)...

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text ... chapter-39

§ 688a - Retired members: temporary authority to order to active duty in high-demand, low-density assignments

§ 690 - Retired members ordered to active duty: limitation on number

...calling back a limited number of special forces (high demand, low density).

What this means, I have no idea. It could be procedural. It could be a precursor. It doesn't affect me, however. Well, not until I get to theater in January and suddenly a bazillion people show up.

When CRAF gets enacted, then worry. Our airlift situation is stretched thin because of Puerto Rico right now, so if we need more planes, the major carriers will be coughing them up.

If I see anything in the meantime, I'll let you know.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:09 pm

Joe K wrote:
DaveInSeattle wrote:No one associated with Trump is going to walk away unscathed.

You know this isn't true, right? All the war criminals responsible for the Iraq War and the establishment of a global torture regime are still members in good standing of the US political establishment.

Kushner and Ivanka still attend the same parties as Chuck Schumer, Chelsea Clinton and other "liberal" members of the NYC elite. People like Conway and Spicer have already gotten speaking gigs and fellowships at Harvard. And Bannon is unquestionably an influential figure in GOP politics nationwide.

Why I still look at things and think "liberals only seem to be better in the superficial sense."

Plus, Mattis will simply not come out of this with any sort of dirt. That decision to make him SecDef was clearly a "Yea, let's not fuck around with the military as we will with every other cabinet position" move. As if the fever momentarily broke and they used their brains.

And never forget, wrt former presidents: comedy = tragedy + time.

DSafetyGuy · Post by **DSafetyGuy** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:20 pm

The Sybian wrote:
Shirley wrote:Trump did start it. But it had nothing to do with that Congresswoman.

Again, I think this is wolf-crying. There are so many legit reasons to go after Trump. If we're going to make a big deal out of the way he handled a very delicate call to the family of a slain soldier, I think we're just helping his cause.

This is where I wonder if Trump is crazy like a fox, or just plain crazy. This all started when a reporter asked him about the circumstances of 4 soldiers being killed in Niger, and why 12 days later he still hasn't spoken about it. Trump deflects by lying to deflect and blame Obama. Is this the outburst of a mentally defective man-child lashing out and having to deflect and attack? Or is this media manipulation genius, because the media has spent 3 days on Trump's phone etiquette, and we have yet to hear anything about the death of these soldiers, why they were in Niger, why they were supposedly ill-equipped, etc... Everything he says makes it worse, but is this intentional, so we keep talking about the side issue, while he avoids answering the really potentially damning questions? This happens almost daily, and I can't tell if it is intentional and a genius move, or if he is truly a doddering idiot with no self control or self awareness, who skates by on the real issues because of his insane idiocy.

He is a man who has always just moved forward chasing whatever he wanted and feeding his own ego with the goal of getting it on his terms, regardless of the means necessary, who surrounded himself with a group of non-politicians who are not used to dealing with the level off scrutiny they are now under. As a result, they are never prepared for anything, particularly his chasing whatever he wants because he is willing to do whatever to try to get it (including keeping the undying support of his base), so they have to fling shit at the wall and hope it sticks.

It's not crazy. It's an extreme case of an entitled, spoiled brat.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:37 pm

TB, here's more reading material from people that may have more info than me. Yes, Reddit commenters:

http://reddit.com/r/politics/comments/7 ... executive/

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:45 am

Johnnie wrote:TB, here's more reading material from people that may have more info than me. Yes, Reddit commenters:

http://reddit.com/r/politics/comments/7 ... executive/

That’s where I got it from - but I don’t trust them on stuff I don’t know about when it comes to military - i trust you.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:46 am

tennbengal wrote:
Johnnie wrote:TB, here's more reading material from people that may have more info than me. Yes, Reddit commenters:

http://reddit.com/r/politics/comments/7 ... executive/

That’s where I got it from - but I don’t trust them on stuff I don’t know about when it comes to military - i trust you.

Thanks, man. I wish I was in that high a level of decision making to know for sure.

The politics subreddit has become my daily stop to scare myself. Some of what's posted is certainly worth getting angry about. Other stuff isn't, but curious. Knowing that this administration is a 1984 rip off in many respects, everything clumps together.

But there absolutely is a pilot shortage. And this does seem to provide alleviation to that. Not sure what else there could be next if pilots don't agree to want to stay.

Edit.

Neutral politics is the other subreddit I'll check out to get info from in a non alarmist fashion:

http://reddit.com/r/NeutralPolitics/com ... executive/

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:09 am

I mean , is the military now the hotel California? You can check out, but you can never leave?

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:32 am

I wouldn't go that far. Maybe for some officers (generals mostly), but I wouldn't venture for everyone. That just doesn't make sense.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:37 am

Johnnie wrote:I wouldn't go that far. Maybe for some officers (generals mostly), but I wouldn't venture for everyone. That just doesn't make sense.

I think Trump wants to send McCain to Iraq.

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:37 pm

Pentagon Document Contradicts Trump’s Gold Star Claims

In the hours after President Donald Trump said on an Oct. 17 radio broadcast that he had contacted nearly every family that had lost a military servicemember this year, the White House was hustling to learn from the Pentagon the identities and contact information for those families, according to an internal Defense Department email.

The email exchange, which has not been previously reported, shows that senior White House aides were aware on the day the president made the statement that it was not accurate — but that they should try to make it accurate as soon as possible, given the gathering controversy.

Not only had the president not contacted virtually all the families of military personnel killed this year, the White House did not even have an up-to-date list of those who had been killed.

EnochRoot · Post by **EnochRoot** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:44 pm

DaveInSeattle wrote:Pentagon Document Contradicts Trump’s Gold Star Claims

In the hours after President Donald Trump said on an Oct. 17 radio broadcast that he had contacted nearly every family that had lost a military servicemember this year, the White House was hustling to learn from the Pentagon the identities and contact information for those families, according to an internal Defense Department email.

The email exchange, which has not been previously reported, shows that senior White House aides were aware on the day the president made the statement that it was not accurate — but that they should try to make it accurate as soon as possible, given the gathering controversy.

Not only had the president not contacted virtually all the families of military personnel killed this year, the White House did not even have an up-to-date list of those who had been killed.

Facts are useless in emergencies
The feeling returns
Whenever we close out eyes
Lifting my head
Looking around inside.
Facts are simple and facts are straight
Facts are lazy and facts are late
Facts all come with points of view
Facts don't do what I want them to
Facts just twist the truth around
Facts are living turned inside out
Facts are getting the best of them
Facts are nothing on the face of things
Facts don't stain the furniture
Facts go out and slam the door
Facts are written all over your face
Facts continue to change their shape
I'm still waiting...I'm still waiting...I'm still waiting...

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:26 am

This is awkward for the Clinton wing of the Democratic Party:
https://twitter.com/tom_winter/status/9 ... 4925622272

Good for Mueller, though. As sleazy as Manafort is, the Podesta Group has done similar work with overseas entities.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:59 am

Joe K wrote:This is awkward for the Clinton wing of the Democratic Party:
https://twitter.com/tom_winter/status/9 ... 4925622272

Good for Mueller, though. As sleazy as Manafort is, the Podesta Group has done similar work with overseas entities.

In a way, this is great. Maybe that wing will be retired once and for all.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:16 am

Going to be funny when the only one to get dinged by this entire investigation is a Dem.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:17 am

mister d wrote:Going to be funny when the only one to get dinged by this entire investigation is a Dem.

Exactly.

rass · Post by **rass** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:19 am

Hope it's Jared.