The Swamp

Johnnie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 11, 2023 4:36 pm I'm not a gearhead by any means, but I've done routine maintenance myself numerous times via my Jeep and Dodge (MOPAR BABY) so I have no problem looking under the hood to check fluids or doing general visual inspections like cleanliness of the bay or the air filter.

Did your bases all have the garage the airmen and officers could use? My sister was always like "do the work yourself it's cheaper blah, blah." I also didn't have almost instant access to a pretty full-service garage.

B*tch I don't even fit under my car anymore

A_B wrote: ↑Sun Jun 11, 2023 7:01 pm If you buy during the week and have a guy you trust you absolutely can take it to the mechanic for. Quick once over. But I haven’t done that in years since the carfax usually works. But pull it yourself and don’t trust what dealer hands you. It is often outdated

Hmmm, I just assumed you can't because of the market and that the next person to come along won't do that. I guess I'll have to look into that.

Rush2112 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 11, 2023 9:47 pmDid your bases all have the garage the airmen and officers could use? My sister was always like "do the work yourself it's cheaper blah, blah." I also didn't have almost instant access to a pretty full-service garage.

The Auto Hobby shops have slowly started going away because funding has been steadily cut to MWR (Morale, Welfare, & Recreation) facilities over the course of time. 20 years ago they were necessary and vital. These days everything requires certified technicians because the electrical is too entwined with the mechanical, so usage of them has decreased. And the AF isn't going to pay to have specialized mechanics in that regard.

I used them every so often at my first base and constantly while in Germany (couldn't work on a Jeep anywhere else), but at Davis-Monthan I haven't used it once and at Kirtland I only used it to store my vehicle when I was deploying.

Yeah if your car is new (last 3-5 years or so) or even slightly fancy you aren't doing shit to it.

Took me 4 hrs to change the battery on a 2020 Mercedes Peasant-class

Gunpowder wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 6:59 am Yeah if your car is new (last 3-5 years or so) or even slightly fancy you aren't doing shit to it.

Took me 4 hrs to change the battery on a 2020 Mercedes Peasant-class

Even the damned wiper blades have gotten too complicated.

I finally was able to buy my car after it going through reconditioning and getting a few things fixed.

And I gotta say, I completely forgot that the toughest part of the transaction is at the end when you're dealing with the finance guy trying to upsell you on an extended warranty and getting you to buy a security system.

He was so slick to transition into his pitch I didn't realize he was trying to get me to buy something and thought he was just talking about something that came with the purchase.

It didn't dawn on me until he pulled out this Waffle House menu looking laminate paper and said "for an extra $50 a month if anything goes wrong it's covered by our platinum level." That laminate looked like something out of the late 90s too with its color scheme and font.

I had to decline like 5 times before he finally let me buy the car. The worst was him saying the car is 9 years old (it's, at best 8 since 2016s are built in 2015) and repeatedly saying "A vehicle this old will have something break on it in the next 4 years. If something breaks this will pay for itself." To which I replied "Well, aren't Hyundais pretty reliable? That's the point of me buying the car in the first place. I don't anticipate something simply breaking. And if something breaks I'll get it fixed then."

All of a sudden I could write my check, sign paperwork, and drive away.

I don’t think I’d want to buy a car from someone who says out loud that something is going to break.

A_B wrote: ↑Sat Jul 01, 2023 1:36 pm I don’t think I’d want to buy a car from someone who says out loud that something is going to break.

That's a fair point. But he's the guy divorced from customer service and sales altogether and probably uses that for every person that comes into his office.

Dude was just a jerk.

Been looking at Autotrader and Carmax, and occasionally Carvana (seems unlikely I'd use it though). Am I missing any other big listing sites?

P.D.X. wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 1:12 pm Been looking at Autotrader and Carmax, and occasionally Carvana (seems unlikely I'd use it though). Am I missing any other big listing sites?

Cars.com should show you all listings based on whatever criteria (price, location, etc.) you are looking for. I usually start there then go to dealer specific sites.

I used Cars Guru successfully, once.

CarGurus.com was very helpful to me. I recommended it to Johnnie and I believe he had a positive experience, as well.

P.D.X. wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 1:12 pm Been looking at Autotrader and Carmax, and occasionally Carvana (seems unlikely I'd use it though). Am I missing any other big listing sites?

A friend of mine bought a used Honda HR-V through Carvana, and he said he'd do it again in a heartbeat. But YMMV.

Sabo wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 4:30 pm

P.D.X. wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 1:12 pm Been looking at Autotrader and Carmax, and occasionally Carvana (seems unlikely I'd use it though). Am I missing any other big listing sites?

A friend of mine bought a used Honda HR-V through Carvana, and he said he'd do it again in a heartbeat. But YMMV.

Did he get it from the vending machine where those two highways meet in your necks of the woods (480 is one of them)?

But, back on point, there are multiple reports online that Carvana charges significantly higher prices than many other outlets.

DSafetyGuy wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 5:48 pm

Sabo wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 4:30 pm

P.D.X. wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 1:12 pm Been looking at Autotrader and Carmax, and occasionally Carvana (seems unlikely I'd use it though). Am I missing any other big listing sites?

A friend of mine bought a used Honda HR-V through Carvana, and he said he'd do it again in a heartbeat. But YMMV.

Did he get it from the vending machine where those two highways meet in your necks of the woods (480 is one of them)?

But, back on point, there are multiple reports online that Carvana charges significantly higher prices than many other outlets.

No, but I know what you're talking about (I-480 and I-271 interchange).

I think he said the car he ended up buying was originally in Texas, and they shipped it to NE Ohio. He said he was adamant about buying a used car from the south so it wouldn't have the road salt exposure.

Been since COVID but carvana gave me a very good baseline price on used cars. It was sometimes a little difficult to id proper price points on used cars because of so much margin difference from dealer to dealer and the variances from package to package and uniqueness of each car. Id say carvana had about 85% beat on price and 10% of the rest were lower for good reason. Theyve almost gone bankrupt since then... We also have an empty car vending machine... So maybe theyve become more disciplined on price. Ended up finding one on autotrader and they drove it to me from Kentucky. Had a warranty so wasn't as worried about sight unseen.

DSafetyGuy wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 3:43 pm CarGurus.com was very helpful to me. I recommended it to Johnnie and I believe he had a positive experience, as well.

Yup. Last summer I was looking for a Hyundai Sonata specifically. The website posted a VIN for a vehicle that was traded in that morning well before photos or a price popped up. I was able to call the dealer and test drive it that day. They had no idea that the general public had info on it that fast.

So yes. 10/10. Highly recommend.

Thanks GK and Dsafe, adding both of those sites to my search rotation.

DSafetyGuy wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 5:48 pm But, back on point, there are multiple reports online that Carvana charges significantly higher prices than many other outlets.

This is my conclusion after watching prices for a couple months. I'm expecting to travel to purchase, but if the right vehicle pops up at the right time I could see how it might pencil out. Also their inventory is pretty limited compared to other sites, for at least what I'm looking for (long-bed Tacoma).

Take note that I haven't bought a car in 20+ years...

Is haggling still a thing? Considering that I'll be purchasing a ~$35k vehicle with cash (no kids, suckas), what's a reasonable figure to try to bargain down to? (Also the specific one I'm looking at has a 'Good' deal rating already*.) I will have to travel a bit so I assume I can use that as a bit of leverage, right? I don't know shit about cars, really, so it's not like I can pop up the hood and find something 'wrong'. I can read a Carfax tho!

*also just came on the market, and is at a dealership

Haggling is a thing (i think). Consider whether to first negotiate a price and then telling them you want to pay cash. Ideally you would walk away and wait on them to call you back. Might not let them know you're out of town. They know you ain't leaving without the car.

Sure, but also don't want to travel 400 miles without some kind of arrangement in place, lest it get sold before I get there.

The biggest thing with haggling is leverage. They fuck with you by keeping you there for hours because they are asserting dominance over you with all the "let me go talk to my manager" bullshit. Don't give them leverage.

The last 2 cars we have purchased: one was a Rav4 from a CarMax... zero bullshit. The other was a Passat that was running a $0 down/0 interest and the only thing was making sure they didn't bait and switch the options I wanted.

The car before that, I just played 2 or 3 dealers off of each other with quotes over the phone. And I told the one that hit the right number that if he started a bunch of bullshit when I got down there I was walking inside of 5 minutes.

Don't let them fuck with you. Period.

I would think the traveling would work against you for that reason.

I would travel for a CarMax deal, other than that... I ain't letting the dealership know I'm traveling.

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 11:44 am I would travel for a CarMax deal, other than that...

I guess I'm not seeing how i can get f'd going to a BMW dealership to buy a used Toyota truck. Like, they can't upsell me on an M61i or whatever, or even try to sell me on a different truck, since I can already see their inventory. And also, I require specifications that, while I can find comparable within my search radius, they're not going to have on their lot. And their listed price is one I would be content with (not only by the car gurus rating, but also by watching the market the last few months).

So yeah, just wondering the best way to not only secure the vehicle but also shave a bit off the sticker.

Figure I may reach out to them next week and just say 'hey I'll be passing through Santa Fe on 7/8 and would love to come look at it" and see how they respond.

P.D.X. wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 12:16 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 11:44 am I would travel for a CarMax deal, other than that...

I guess I'm not seeing how i can get f'd going to a BMW dealership to buy a used Toyota truck. Like, they can't upsell me on an M61i or whatever, or even try to sell me on a different truck, since I can already see their inventory. And also, I require specifications that, while I can find comparable within my search radius, they're not going to have on their lot. And their listed price is one I would be content with (not only by the car gurus rating, but also by watching the market the last few months).

So yeah, just wondering the best way to not only secure the vehicle but also shave a bit off the sticker.

Figure I may reach out to them next week and just say 'hey I'll be passing through Santa Fe on 7/8 and would love to come look at it" and see how they respond.

You can always get f'd buying any car, anywhere.

The best leverage you have is to have an option. If you are traveling to buy a specific used vehicle, that limits you quite a bit. Buying used gives the dealer another advantage, too, because the dealer knows that at some point, someone will pay X for the car. If you're buying new, and assuming the dealer doesn't have supply issues, all you need to do is make the dealer some profit. If you're buying used, you have to match what the dealer expects to eventually get, minus the costs the dealer would incur in keeping it on the lot for however long "eventually" is.

So you'll have to lie about having options.

Of course, the dealer will know you are lying, but they'll knock something off.

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 12:33 pm You can always get f'd buying any car, anywhere.

Oh for sure. I just meant vis-a-vis the Carmax model or typical upselling tactics.

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 12:33 pm So you'll have to lie about having options.

I do have other options, so no lying needed. This particular one is just the best one that has popped up in the last ~4 months.

I don't know if this will be the case since you are buying a Toyota at a BMW dealership, but in my (one) experience, the guy at the dealership kept trying to get me to finance through them when I was making a cash purchase (kids, but had worked multiple projects at the same time, suckas). Like, one more email without answering the question "how much should the check be for?" and I would have gone to the next dealership.

DSafetyGuy wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 12:55 pm I don't know if this will be the case since you are buying a Toyota at a BMW dealership, but in my (one) experience, the guy at the dealership kept trying to get me to finance through them when I was making a cash purchase (kids, but had worked multiple projects at the same time, suckas). Like, one more email without answering the question "how much should the check be for?" and I would have gone to the next dealership.

I know nothing about the business of a car dealership, but I would have thought they'd prefer a cash deal?

Pretty sure they make $$$ on financing even though they sell the debt immediately if they ever hold it at all.

Not if they also own the financing corp?

Forgot to mention ... last car we bought was in 2019 and the entire negotiation was done via email. Its like 2 hours away where my inlaws live so we did stop in in the beginning to look and get the trade appraised but all actual talks about which car and how much was over email and agreed before I drove back.

Yep buy here pay here just means selling that same repoed car 4x

Likely won't help you in Colorado, or with a used model you've already decided on, but the last car we purchased was done with the assistance of thecarhaggler.com. This guy started haggling car purchases about 10 years ago for friends and turned it into a full time job. Pretty sure he charges $400 for any purchase under $50k, $500 for purchases between $50k and $100k, and more for rare exotic type stuff. We gave him an idea of what we were looking for, what we were trading in, and he handled the rest. I did have to sit through the dealership's attempt to upsell me on warranties, but other than that, everything else was handled by him and we were in and out of the dealership in less than 90 minutes after I took the test drive. Getting an estimate on trade in value for a car that definitely needed work without them having seen more than a couple photos was probably the most advantageous part of the whole deal. I felt like I'd robbed a bank getting $10k for a slightly banged up Honda Odyssey on bald tires. Best $400 I ever spent.

govmentchedda wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 1:18 pm Likely won't help you in Colorado, or with a used model you've already decided on, but the last car we purchased was done with the assistance of thecarhaggler.com. This guy started haggling car purchases about 10 years ago for friends and turned it into a full time job. Pretty sure he charges $400 for any purchase under $50k, $500 for purchases between $50k and $100k, and more for rare exotic type stuff. We gave him an idea of what we were looking for, what we were trading in, and he handled the rest. I did have to sit through the dealership's attempt to upsell me on warranties, but other than that, everything else was handled by him and we were in and out of the dealership in less than 90 minutes after I took the test drive. Getting an estimate on trade in value for a car that definitely needed work without them having seen more than a couple photos was probably the most advantageous part of the whole deal. I felt like I'd robbed a bank getting $10k for a slightly banged up Honda Odyssey on bald tires. Best $400 I ever spent.

I knew a guy here who did that but also found used cars for you, or would sell your used car for you. He was basically a real estate broker for cars.

It was so sad when he retired for doing that, because oh my god, it was the best service ever.

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 1:23 pm

govmentchedda wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 1:18 pm Likely won't help you in Colorado, or with a used model you've already decided on, but the last car we purchased was done with the assistance of thecarhaggler.com. This guy started haggling car purchases about 10 years ago for friends and turned it into a full time job. Pretty sure he charges $400 for any purchase under $50k, $500 for purchases between $50k and $100k, and more for rare exotic type stuff. We gave him an idea of what we were looking for, what we were trading in, and he handled the rest. I did have to sit through the dealership's attempt to upsell me on warranties, but other than that, everything else was handled by him and we were in and out of the dealership in less than 90 minutes after I took the test drive. Getting an estimate on trade in value for a car that definitely needed work without them having seen more than a couple photos was probably the most advantageous part of the whole deal. I felt like I'd robbed a bank getting $10k for a slightly banged up Honda Odyssey on bald tires. Best $400 I ever spent.

I knew a guy here who did that but also found used cars for you, or would sell your used car for you. He was basically a real estate broker for cars.

It was so sad when he retired for doing that, because oh my god, it was the best service ever.

Yeah, I should have been more specific, this was actually the third to last car we purchased. I damn sure didn't buy either of my boys new cars (fucking hell, I've purchased 3 cars since last August). When we bought my eldest a used car I called this guy up and paid him $100 to walk through all of the specifics I should look for, and questions I should ask, when purchasing a used car.

Full details - my son didn't like the old Tahoe we passed down to him and saved up money from work to trade it in and buy something smaller and sportier. Dude got his heart set on a 10 year old Volvo C30, and made all of the regular rookie car buying mistakes. Wouldn't quit calling the used car lot, couldn't wipe the smile off his face when there, etc. He was basically walking around with a hard on bulge in his pants for this fucking car. We walked from the lot 2x and ultimately didn't purchase until we found another similar version a few weeks later in Orlando.

Daniel Tosh had a car broker on his podcast and he says you're a sucka if you pay the broker. He said in his 45 years of doing it he only took commission from the seller.

I didn't even know those were a thing.

I don't know about a broker, but I'd seriously consider a "haggler". I hate negotiating, and therefore am bad at it.

Giff wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 2:05 pm Daniel Tosh had a car broker on his podcast and he says you're a sucka if you pay the broker. He said in his 45 years of doing it he only took commission from the seller.

I didn't even know those were a thing.

I'm not sure that makes sense. I asked a guy to perform a service for me - go and find a car that meets my particular specifications, get it inspected, test drive it, and bring it to me to look at and make the final decision. That service has value to me, so I pay for it.

This isn't a situation where the broker has an inventory of cars on consignment or whatever where he's just selling me something he had already found.

Anyway, if the seller is paying the broker, wouldn't the seller include that in his or her price, so the buyer would be paying anyway? All the money comes from the buyer.

There wasn’t a live Q&A so I can just tell you what he said. He said he only got a cut from the seller and never the buyer. And those that were are “double dipping”.

I would just assume a broker has relationships with dealers and they essentially takes a percentage of what you could have negotiated down for yourself. Probably still worth it to a lot of people who don't want the hassle, but I don't think I'd ever trust they were working for me.