The Swamp

mister d wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 8:31 am The fact that people did and do support this guy as anything resembling a serious left candidate drives me insane. Even more malleable than Buttigieg but too dumb to smooth out the process.



(I'm sure he's smarter than me. I mean politically dumb.)

I agree with this take. He seems like a tech nerd trying to be cool, and the Left jumps all over a young "hip" politician like Beto, Pete, AOC to be the future. I like some of what he is trying to do, and it's great having a voice pushing issues further left and coming up with some innovative ideas, but he seems really clueless and naive at times.

But he's not left, he is (like you said) a tech solver. The money for his UBI proposal comes out of social programs, not additional taxation.

This is what passes for intellectual statements in today's Republican Party...

totally owning the liz






booooooooo

Thought just crossed my mind re: Turnip and social media.

Facebook, Twitter, and other social media companies are for-profit businesses. They analyzed internally whether to allow a former President to stay on their platforms, and then said, "nope, it's better for our bottom line if we ban him, even if he got 73 million Americans to vote for him in the last election."

DaveInSeattle wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 10:01 am This is what passes for intellectual statements in today's Republican Party...

Twitter’s ratio-ing the fuck out of that tweet, too.

He’s a fucking fraud.

Have to imagine that if there was Twitter in Italy in the late 1920s, this is something one of Mussolini' apparatchiks would have tweeted - down with science and education! Up with the tools of authoritarianism!

Textbook fascism. The only thing the government should fund are the military, police and carcerial system.

As much as I want to cheer this, it's quickly pushed to the side for the realization that this will only get worse.

It's not a disagreement on politics either. Her and folks like Kinzinger are in absolute lockstep with Republican ideals. It's the fact they won't declare fealty to T***p. That's the problem.

The only logical conclusion to this experiment are the inevitable murders of sitting Congress members by other sitting Congress members, directly or indirectly. The next insurrection attempt will leave people dead.

Edit:

This Reddit comment really makes several great points:

[+] spoiler

I can’t grasp what the GOP thinks they are gaining in the long run here.

They're doubling down on the success that Trump gave them.

Success? Really? Was he successful?

Well yes, depending on how you rank Success.

Trump demonstrated that there is no need for ethical conduct, or nuanced conversation in order to obtain political power, all it took was jeers and lies, no political credibility at all. Count that as a success.

Trump demonstrated that so long as you front out controversy by causing a new one you're effectively safe from oversight, and then with competing controversies all over the place for your opponents to cherry pick from, you accuse them of cherry picking.

Trump demonstrated that a serious, serious number of Americans want their politicians to hurt people, to be petty and swingeing in the name of "hurting the right people" and that it easier to harness them and their outrage than it is to deprogram and decultify them.

Trump demonstrated that even by being the worst president ever (and I'm purely using his two impeachments, his status as "Unindicted Co-conspirator, Individual One and his inability to be cleared for obstruction of justice as my benchmarks) just by being loud and hateful its still possible to get people in their millions to vote for you.

Trump also demonstrated that you don't have to accept the truth. Election results don't go your way? There's a narrative for that, there's people that will believe you and help you, without needing evidence, then hide behind "just saying" without having to be held accountable for their words and actions.

Trump demonstrated that the Presidency is a lightning Rod, he was the focus of so much opprobrium that it took a lot of the focus off what Mitch McConnell was doing as the dead hand of the Senate. Mitch was free to stuff courts, including the supreme Court as well as all the unqualified judges he appointed elsewhere.

Trump demonstrated that its possible to combine the role of President with that of a business owner who can effectively just write himself a check.

The Republicans have demonstrated that they can Gerrymander to their hearts content, that they can play the political game *just for the sake of beating their opponent* - Rs don't want to be politicians to make the US/ world a better place for people, they do it to deny platforms to those that *do* want to improve the US/World.

So, effectively the GOP is banking on holding together long enough to seize power with a minority of the popular vote, and stay in power with a minority of the popular vote.

The GOP is planning to be able to make the phone calls to get Election results overturned *again* only this time people will have the "legal" authority to void the results. Not something they had before.

The GOP endgame is to get the reigns of power back, and hold onto them. You're witnessing a slow coup and the overthrow of democracy in real time.

And because its in real time, it doesn't feel like a big deal now, but oh my days, it will feel much, much bigger in 2024.

Johnnie wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 10:29 pm As much as I want to cheer this, it's quickly pushed to the side for the realization that this will only get worse.

It's not a disagreement on politics either. Her and folks like Kinzinger are in absolute lockstep with Republican ideals. It's the fact they won't declare fealty to T***p. That's the problem.

The only logical conclusion to this experiment are the inevitable murders of sitting Congress members by other sitting Congress members, directly or indirectly. The next insurrection attempt will leave people dead.

It's a purity spiral. They don't end well.

Johnnie wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 10:29 pm As much as I want to cheer this, it's quickly pushed to the side for the realization that this will only get worse.

It's not a disagreement on politics either. Her and folks like Kinzinger are in absolute lockstep with Republican ideals. It's the fact they won't declare fealty to T***p. That's the problem.

The only logical conclusion to this experiment are the inevitable murders of sitting Congress members by other sitting Congress members, directly or indirectly. The next insurrection attempt will leave people dead.

Edit:

This Reddit comment really makes several great points:

[+] spoiler

I can’t grasp what the GOP thinks they are gaining in the long run here.

They're doubling down on the success that Trump gave them.

Success? Really? Was he successful?

Well yes, depending on how you rank Success.

Trump demonstrated that there is no need for ethical conduct, or nuanced conversation in order to obtain political power, all it took was jeers and lies, no political credibility at all. Count that as a success.

Trump demonstrated that so long as you front out controversy by causing a new one you're effectively safe from oversight, and then with competing controversies all over the place for your opponents to cherry pick from, you accuse them of cherry picking.

Trump demonstrated that a serious, serious number of Americans want their politicians to hurt people, to be petty and swingeing in the name of "hurting the right people" and that it easier to harness them and their outrage than it is to deprogram and decultify them.

Trump demonstrated that even by being the worst president ever (and I'm purely using his two impeachments, his status as "Unindicted Co-conspirator, Individual One and his inability to be cleared for obstruction of justice as my benchmarks) just by being loud and hateful its still possible to get people in their millions to vote for you.

Trump also demonstrated that you don't have to accept the truth. Election results don't go your way? There's a narrative for that, there's people that will believe you and help you, without needing evidence, then hide behind "just saying" without having to be held accountable for their words and actions.

Trump demonstrated that the Presidency is a lightning Rod, he was the focus of so much opprobrium that it took a lot of the focus off what Mitch McConnell was doing as the dead hand of the Senate. Mitch was free to stuff courts, including the supreme Court as well as all the unqualified judges he appointed elsewhere.

Trump demonstrated that its possible to combine the role of President with that of a business owner who can effectively just write himself a check.

The Republicans have demonstrated that they can Gerrymander to their hearts content, that they can play the political game *just for the sake of beating their opponent* - Rs don't want to be politicians to make the US/ world a better place for people, they do it to deny platforms to those that *do* want to improve the US/World.

So, effectively the GOP is banking on holding together long enough to seize power with a minority of the popular vote, and stay in power with a minority of the popular vote.

The GOP is planning to be able to make the phone calls to get Election results overturned *again* only this time people will have the "legal" authority to void the results. Not something they had before.

The GOP endgame is to get the reigns of power back, and hold onto them. You're witnessing a slow coup and the overthrow of democracy in real time.

And because its in real time, it doesn't feel like a big deal now, but oh my days, it will feel much, much bigger in 2024.

Counterpoint: “This can’t happen here.”

That would only matter if they voted differently than the other party. They won't. They embrace the same radical views on many issues so will remain a voting block. The only difference is there will be a schism in leadership and the agenda setting. But they will all still be anti-immigrant, pro-business/anti-government, pro-tax cuts for the rich, pro-tax increases on the poor, pro-privatization of all health and human services, anti-education, and anti-voter rights. Still the same shit, just in two different but equally smelly piles. Just means more flies around the yard. All this would do in congress is give the Dems a larger majority than either party, but then face the same outcome as the two conservative sides pull together vote along traditional conservative lines. You can split them up, and they will caucus separately, but they still share the same bad ideas.

Liz Cheney was simply demoted because she doesn't support the ideals of the party. This happens all the time. The media is just all over it because she's a Republican bashing Trump. Trump is still an obsession.

degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 8:33 am That would only matter if they voted differently than the other party. They won't. They embrace the same radical views on many issues so will remain a voting block. The only difference is there will be a schism in leadership and the agenda setting. But they will all still be anti-immigrant, pro-business/anti-government, pro-tax cuts for the rich, pro-tax increases on the poor, pro-privatization of all health and human services, anti-education, and anti-voter rights. Still the same shit, just in two different but equally smelly piles. Just means more flies around the yard. All this would do in congress is give the Dems a larger majority than either party, but then face the same outcome as the two conservative sides pull together vote along traditional conservative lines. You can split them up, and they will caucus separately, but they still share the same bad ideas.

Liz Cheney was simply demoted because she doesn't support the ideals of the party. This happens all the time. The media is just all over it because she's a Republican bashing Trump. Trump is still an obsession.

Is that what the talking points memo told you to say?

Easy test, degen: When was the last time that someone from republican leadership (chair or higher) was demoted for anything?

I want to know more about how two conservative parties would mean SSDD in Washington.

And fwiw, Sean Hannity was spewing talking points that suggested Cheney was not ousted for not propagating the big lie.

That’s a form of gaslighting.

P.D.X. wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 8:53 am Easy test, degen: When was the last time that someone from republican leadership (chair or higher) was demoted for anything?

Chair or higher? Can't think of one. But they do demote. There was a guy removed from a committee a few years ago for white supremacy comments. (Steve King, I had to look his name). And there are smaller demotions we don't hear about.

I agree that is is a big position. It just shows the the GOP is still the party of Trump and they still are peddling the theory that the election was stolen and Cheney can't be in a leadership role if she doesn't agree. I don't think it means much as they just get someone else in. I don't think it's enough to really splinter the party either. Cheney probably gets primaried in 2022 now. This GOP have chosen this direction.

And fwiw, Sean Hannity was spewing talking points that suggested Cheney was not ousted for not propagating the big lie.

That’s a form of gaslighting.

Hannity is a satire comedy show.

Yeah that's totally how people treat it, man

degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 9:14 am Hannity is a satire comedy show.

No, to many Americans it’s not. It’s treated as a form of gospel.

degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 8:33 am

Liz Cheney was simply demoted because she doesn't support the ideals of the party. This happens all the time. The media is just all over it because she's a Republican bashing Trump. Trump is still an obsession.

Are you out of your damned mind? Liz Cheney is as hard core a Conservative as there is in Congress, and she is being replaced by someone who scores much lower with all of the Conservative rating groups. The only thing she ever did to draw the ire of the GOP is call out Trump's Big Lie and vote to impeach Trump. In a sense, that is now the ideals of the Party. All they stand for is supporting Trump, as they have thrown out any pretense of caring about Democracy, the country, the People or the Constitution.

Trump is The Party. The Party is Trump.

Cool, cool.

Lifted a pic from a reply to that tweet:

Marjorie Taylor-Greene is such a piece of shit. "Hate" is a strong word, and I don't throw it around lightly. I legitimately hate Marjorie Taylor-Greene and I wish ill on her. I don't care how anti-Catholic that sounds.

Don't worry...it sounds adequately Catholic.

Jerloma wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 1:07 pm Don't worry...it sounds adequately Catholic.

Fair.

Jerloma wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 1:07 pm Don't worry...it sounds adequately Catholic.

Oh is she gay?

Like the cheers episode where Sam Malone cheats at chess against Robin colcord...

tennbengal wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 2:00 pm Like the cheers episode where Sam Malone cheats at chess against Robin colcord...

(Frasier walks into Sam's office and sees Norm and Pete with all sorts of equipment)

Frasier: So where'd you get all this listening equipment?!

Norm: I dunno, it's Pete's stuff...

Frasier: Pete, are you a surveillance expert?!

Pete: No, my wife just sleeps around a lot.

EnochRoot wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 3:15 pm

tennbengal wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 2:00 pm Like the cheers episode where Sam Malone cheats at chess against Robin colcord...

(Frasier walks into Sam's office and sees Norm and Pete with all sorts of equipment)

Frasier: So where'd you get all this listening equipment?!

Norm: I dunno, it's Pete's stuff...

Frasier: Pete, are you a surveillance expert?!

Pete: No, my wife just sleeps around a lot.

Yup! Classic episode

L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:55 pm Marjorie Taylor-Greene is such a piece of shit. "Hate" is a strong word, and I don't throw it around lightly. I legitimately hate Marjorie Taylor-Greene and I wish ill on her. I don't care how anti-Catholic that sounds.

One thing I learned during my recent studying of the old testament is that the heavenly powers that be have no problem with destroying sinners.

Therefore, from a traditional religious standpoint, there is nothing wrong in hoping that Congresswoman Greene tries to speak with food in her mouth and gags and then chokes to death slowly.

Maybe this very evening.

Perfectly acceptable.

The Sybian wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 11:28 am

degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 8:33 am

Liz Cheney was simply demoted because she doesn't support the ideals of the party. This happens all the time. The media is just all over it because she's a Republican bashing Trump. Trump is still an obsession.

Are you out of your damned mind? Liz Cheney is as hard core a Conservative as there is in Congress, and she is being replaced by someone who scores much lower with all of the Conservative rating groups. The only thing she ever did to draw the ire of the GOP is call out Trump's Big Lie and vote to impeach Trump. In a sense, that is now the ideals of the Party. All they stand for is supporting Trump, as they have thrown out any pretense of caring about Democracy, the country, the People or the Constitution.

Wait. So Trump and Trump supporters are less hard core conservative? But they are more anti-democracy and anti-constitution? Is this the line you're drawing? You think the Reagan Republicans still exists (Reagan was pretty evil too). It's all Republicans to me. They're still gerrymandering and passing shitty laws to the determent of most people. People shouldn't forget that Cheney pushed many of the same extreme positions Trump embraced, arguing in that Democrats are socialists.

This infighting means nothing, they're not going to split the party. Cheney will continue to vote with Republicans. Cheney voting to impeach Trump was no different than Romney voting to impeach Trump.

degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 8:37 pm

Wait. So Trump and Trump supporters are less hard core conservative? But they are more anti-democracy and anti-constitution? Is this the line you're drawing? You think the Reagan Republicans still exists (Reagan was pretty evil too). It's all Republicans to me. They're still gerrymandering and passing shitty laws to the determent of most people. People shouldn't forget that Cheney pushed many of the same extreme positions Trump embraced, arguing in that Democrats are socialists.

This infighting means nothing, they're not going to split the party. Cheney will continue to vote with Republicans. Cheney voting to impeach Trump was no different than Romney voting to impeach Trump.

What the fuck are you talking about? Cheney and Romney are exactly the same. I completely disagree with both of their views on 99% of the issues, but they are about the only Republicans in Congress living in reality and willing to speak the truth on Trump. I almost all of them know better, but are putting Trump first and sticking with the lies over all else. I’m saying Cheney is as far Rightband Conservative as anyone, but the only beef they have with her is she speaks the truth in Trump. Trumpism had nothing, well little, to do with Conservatism, it’s all about lying and cheating to maintain power, not ideology. Cheney is 100% committed to her ideology and upholding her view of the Constitution over power and personal safety. Most of the rest are pussies afraid that if they speak the truth, Trump will turn on them and they’ll lose their seats.

Damn, this was about to be a good episode too.

Was this the one where he was going to talk about cancel culture and libertarianism and weed?

Check out this pussy-ass bitch: