Random Politics

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Tue Jan 03, 2023 4:56 pm

So if Jordan somehow ends up being the Speaker, that means he can't be the chair of any committees right? At some point would the Dems start voting for him to keep his chicanery out of the judiciary committee? Dangerous move that could only be pulled off by the last 20 dems or so aphabetically if it came to that.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Tue Jan 03, 2023 4:59 pm

This is fun and cute but if its the furthest right holding out on the far right, there will likely be some bad-for-all-of-us concessions, no?

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Tue Jan 03, 2023 5:02 pm

I can't imagine a world where any Dem votes for any of these fucking morons.

And, yes, the concessions will be ridiculous, but it's all going to be ridiculous regardless. In the meantime, this is just further evidence to any of the independent and/or low information voters of just how fucked up (dysfunctional) these fucking morons are.

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Tue Jan 03, 2023 5:17 pm

Funny thing is it doesn't make a lick of a difference who the majority speaker is. They're all just there to obstruct. It doesn't take any actual leadership to make sure nothing gets passed that can help not rich people.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Tue Jan 03, 2023 5:23 pm

Jerloma wrote: ↑Tue Jan 03, 2023 5:17 pm Funny thing is it doesn't make a lick of a difference who the majority speaker is. They're all just there to obstruct. It doesn't take any actual leadership to make sure nothing gets passed that can help not rich people.

Right. So who's not voting for McCarthy and why? Even Jordan doesn't want people voting for him.

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Tue Jan 03, 2023 5:46 pm

Reaper · Post by **Reaper** » Tue Jan 03, 2023 8:15 pm

degenerasian wrote: ↑Tue Jan 03, 2023 5:23 pm
Jerloma wrote: ↑Tue Jan 03, 2023 5:17 pm Funny thing is it doesn't make a lick of a difference who the majority speaker is. They're all just there to obstruct. It doesn't take any actual leadership to make sure nothing gets passed that can help not rich people.
Right. So who's not voting for McCarthy and why? Even Jordan doesn't want people voting for him.

There are five "Never Kevins": Reps. Andy Biggs (Ariz.), Matt Gaetz (Fla.), Ralph Norman (S.C.), Matt Rosendale (Mont.) and Bob Good (Va.). Only four from the GOP can go against McCarthy for him to still become speaker, so if those five are truly nevers, then I guess it doesn't happen unless a Dem flips, but as of the last vote there are 15 more, so it's gonna take a lot.
One of the concessions they're asking McCarthy to make is that they can vote to remove him mid-term, which is currently not allowed. So effectively, they're saying ok, we'll vote for you if you agree we can take that vote back and look for someone else in the meantime.

Reaper · Post by **Reaper** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 12:11 pm

Why is there a house chaplain only? Why isn't there a house rabbi or anything else? Why do they start off with a prayer at all?

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 12:27 pm

Reaper wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 12:11 pm Why is there a house chaplain only? Why isn't there a house rabbi or anything else? Why do they start off with a prayer at all?

I thought of Chaplains as non-denominational and capable of leading prayers for multiple faiths. That said, not sure why there is a House Chaplain at all.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 12:37 pm

degenerasian wrote: ↑Tue Jan 03, 2023 5:23 pm
Jerloma wrote: ↑Tue Jan 03, 2023 5:17 pm Funny thing is it doesn't make a lick of a difference who the majority speaker is. They're all just there to obstruct. It doesn't take any actual leadership to make sure nothing gets passed that can help not rich people.
Right. So who's not voting for McCarthy and why? Even Jordan doesn't want people voting for him.

I think the asshole wing of the GOP just like the attention they get for being assholes. I am enjoying the fuck out of seeing McCarthy fail to get the Trump wing to back him after embarrassing himself and kowtowing to Trump after his initial outrage towards Trump on 1/6. He acted like a complete bitch, bent and kissed the ring, doubled down on backing Trump and pretzel-twisting logic to defend Trump, only to get stabbed in the back by the Trump acolytes and have Trump refuse to help support him or instruct the never-Kevins to vote for Kevin. For the 70th time, I don't know why anyone would ever support or ally themselves with Trump, because he is eventually going to turn on you and his entire cult will hate you.

On the flip side, it does scare me that the GOP will eventually have to agree on another Speaker, and the wackjobs will only agree to a whackjob, and the the rest of the party will eventually have to relent.

I am still amazed by the GOP's complete lack of a platform or even ideas. They knew they were taking the House and while they say they will fix everything the "Dem's ruined," they still haven't proposed a single idea other than defunding the Congressional Ethics Office and removing metal detectors from Congress. What a shitty excuse for a party. They haven't had a legit idea in a decade. They are still talking about "repeal and replace Obamacare," yet never actually thought through what they would replace it with.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 12:38 pm

Today I Learned: The Library of Congress has comics.

Reaper · Post by **Reaper** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 12:41 pm

Gonna do this all over again.

Byron Donalds, the one who switched his vote to Jordan for the third vote yesterday, was the the 3rd nominee for the 4th vote, and he's already got the numbers to make it go to a fifth vote, at least.

When Donalds was nominated, the nominator declared that it was the first time two Black Americans were nominated for Speaker at the same time. Then recited Dr. King's not the color of his skin but content of his character quote and got a standing ovation from the GOP.

L-Jam3 · Post by **L-Jam3** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 12:48 pm

They work with clowns and they're surprised they end up with a circus.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 12:50 pm

Looks like they picked up one vote already over the 20. So wild.

ETA: Nope, bad list can't read.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 12:51 pm

This is a very good overview of how the GOP got to this point, and a particular breakdown of how/why McCarthy is pretty well fucked.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... ker-house/

The one thing I'd say from many years of experience, and it is amplified a thousand fold in this circumstance... These leadership battles are the best way for back-benchers and the like to make a name for themselves. Either within the party up on the Hill, or more accurately in this go 'round, with the nutter wing of the party.

It's incredible selfish. It's also incredibly effective. ($$$)

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 12:54 pm

The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 12:37 pmI am still amazed by the GOP's complete lack of a platform or even ideas. They knew they were taking the House and while they say they will fix everything the "Dem's ruined," they still haven't proposed a single idea other than defunding the Congressional Ethics Office and removing metal detectors from Congress. What a shitty excuse for a party. They haven't had a legit idea in a decade. They are still talking about "repeal and replace Obamacare," yet never actually thought through what they would replace it with.

They're going to stop critical race theory and the IRS and people saying "pregnant people" and Covid vaccine requirements and restrictions on oil and gas drilling and immigrants taking your jobs and fucking your women.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 1:33 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 12:51 pm This is a very good overview of how the GOP got to this point, and a particular breakdown of how/why McCarthy is pretty well fucked.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... ker-house/

The one thing I'd say from many years of experience, and it is amplified a thousand fold in this circumstance... These leadership battles are the best way for back-benchers and the like to make a name for themselves. Either within the party up on the Hill, or more accurately in this go 'round, with the nutter wing of the party.

It's incredible selfish. It's also incredibly effective. ($$$)

if it was so effective why has it taken 100 years? I know there were also votes from Dems for people other than Pelosi but not enough to hold things up like this. I think this is extra unprecedented stupid grandstanding.

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 1:40 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 12:51 pmThe one thing I'd say from many years of experience, and it is amplified a thousand fold in this circumstance... These leadership battles are the best way for back-benchers and the like to make a name for themselves. Either within the party up on the Hill, or more accurately in this go 'round, with the nutter wing of the party.

Didn't Gingrich pull stunts like this to make himself the big name in the GOP?

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 1:52 pm

1) The is one of the tightest majorities in the history of Congress. You can go back and see an instance in the 30s when it was a 2 vote margin, then in the 50s a couple of single digit margins. Then you had the last Congress that was a mirror image. Guess why that wasn't such a shit show (hint: for all the grousing about Pelosi, she didn't let things get to this level of shit show.)

As I said, this type of horse trading and grandstanding is very standard. The difference is that it was maybe one or two rounds of this and then folks would get some minor concession (or maybe a bigger project in their backyard if things were slightly close on the margins) and get in line. I can't tell you how standard this all is, as just a general rule.

2) As the article explains, there has never been such a fundamentally, soundly fucked up "party" than what we're seeing with this version. Not in modern politics, anyways. It takes real leadership and party unity to keep things from spiraling. We all know what a spineless fuck McCarthy is... Another huge reason.

=-=-=-=

When I kept babbling and railing on about this (the way the GOP/Trump/"Leadership" were playing to the base) as not being sustainable. This type of thing is EXACTLY what I meant*. You can't be this beholden to whack-a-doos and their psychotic, frenetic whims. You actually have to stand for something other than hate and grievance politics. Most important, you can't just cater to the very lowest denominator all the time. This is the result.

* - Yes, the major point I was making is it's not sustainable on a national scale. But it also pretty clearly cuts in to their viability as just a working, get things done (even if those things suck) party.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 1:57 pm

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 1:40 pm
Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 12:51 pmThe one thing I'd say from many years of experience, and it is amplified a thousand fold in this circumstance... These leadership battles are the best way for back-benchers and the like to make a name for themselves. Either within the party up on the Hill, or more accurately in this go 'round, with the nutter wing of the party.
Didn't Gingrich pull stunts like this to make himself the big name in the GOP?

100 percent. Gingrich, Delay, Armey... All were back-benchers that were incredibly frustrated with their own party's feckless, rudderless leadership. The GOP was so used to being in the minority, they were just whipped and barely putting up an opposition.

These guys came in and really shook things up. The Contract "for" America was pretty brilliant, just from a political strategy standpoint.

What's very telling about all that is they may have been full of shit, but they put up a very simple vision that their constituency could embrace. The Tea Party was the beginning of taking that type of approach and sprinkling in a heavy dose of "burn it all down" that we are seeing come to fruition today.

But, yeah, I think ppl forget that the Dems held the House for something like 40 years. Gingrich and Co came in after being on the wrong side of 258(!) to 176 majority to flip it to 230 - 204 majority. That's fucking crazy.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 2:21 pm

Steve Kornacki has an excellent, recent podcast about Gingrich called The Revolution that goes into his ascent.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/steve-kornac ... 39315.html

Newt actually liked it and gave an interview to Kornacki in the final episode of it.

Definite recommendation from me if you're into political podcasts.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 2:32 pm

Gingrich does a ton of interviews and podcasts, I actually find him quite engaging.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 2:40 pm

I fucking love this guy:

Also: Fifth vote fails. Jesus, this is hysterical.

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 2:59 pm

moar ballots

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:29 pm

We're now into the "millions of immigrants, criminals and who knows how much fentanyl has entered the country" portion of the proceedings.

Reaper · Post by **Reaper** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:31 pm

Johnnie wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 2:40 pm I fucking love this guy:

Also: Fifth vote fails. Jesus, this is hysterical.

I was just getting off a Zoom call so I missed who it was, but the woman who nominated McCarthy this time said the Dems can have fun with their popcorn ... and their alcohol. That was a fun minute. She "jokingly" accused them of drinking on the House floor and then smiled and asked for order. These people are dumb as shit.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:32 pm

See, I could never be in Congress.

I would literally nominate D*nald Tr*mp just to be a fucking chucklehead.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:34 pm

In addition to the MLK grandstanding earlier by the GOP, Frederick Douglass is now in the record.

Byron Donalds is being used as a prop and its appalling.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:35 pm

Johnnie wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:32 pm See, I could never be in Congress.

I would literally nominate D*nald Tr*mp just to be a fucking chucklehead.

I wish one of them would just go ahead and nominate Steve Scalise.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:35 pm

A_B wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:34 pm In addition to the MLK grandstanding earlier by the GOP, Frederick Douglass is now in the record.

Byron Donalds is being used as a prop and its appalling.

But not surprising.

Reaper · Post by **Reaper** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:47 pm

What the fuck is the point of going to another vote at this point? Nothing is changing. Just why?

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:48 pm

Reaper wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:47 pm What the fuck is the point of going to another vote at this point? Nothing is changing. Just why?

Procedure. That's it.

Also, to force Kevin into submission or to force those voting for him to lose confidence.

Post by **brian** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:55 pm

Reaper wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:47 pm What the fuck is the point of going to another vote at this point? Nothing is changing. Just why?

Also, the House can't do any business until a Speaker is elected. So if for that alone they have to keep going.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:56 pm

ABC News is reporting that Kevin has conceded the threshold to remove the Speaker to 1 person.

So like, let's say he gets nominated as speaker and then 1 person immediately votes to remove him 10 minutes after?

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:59 pm

So in theory he'd be a constant hostage to over 200 idiots.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 4:02 pm

Also, Kathleen Rice, former D from NY on ABC News, is absolutely annoying when she talks about "her friend Kevin."

This is what makes people ambivalent to voting in the first place. If Democrats consider insurrectionist sympathizers as 'friends,' then what the fuck is all the bickering about? It's clear that 1/6 was nothing to some of these fools and that rhetoric from Republicans is allowed to go unchecked. It's maddening, honestly.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 4:02 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:59 pm So in theory he'd be a constant hostage to over 200 idiots.

I think it's a caucus thing and I don't have the list of who's in the caucus that could make the call. At least that's what I'm getting from the reporting.

Reaper · Post by **Reaper** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 4:05 pm

brian wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:55 pm
Reaper wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:47 pm What the fuck is the point of going to another vote at this point? Nothing is changing. Just why?
Also, the House can't do any business until a Speaker is elected. So if for that alone they have to keep going.

No, I get that. Before they went to the floor at noon, they were talking about a procedure where they could ask for adjournment or recess without holding a vote. Dammit. This was only 4 hours ago and I can't remember what they called it. I don't understand why they didn't do that instead of the same thing over and over again.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 4:10 pm

Reaper wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 4:05 pm
brian wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:55 pm
Reaper wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:47 pm What the fuck is the point of going to another vote at this point? Nothing is changing. Just why?
Also, the House can't do any business until a Speaker is elected. So if for that alone they have to keep going.
No, I get that. Before they went to the floor at noon, they were talking about a procedure where they could ask for adjournment or recess without holding a vote. Dammit. This was only 4 hours ago and I can't remember what they called it. I don't understand why they didn't do that instead of the same thing over and over again.

The democrats made them come to the floor for a vote. They don't mind seeing McCarthy squirm.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 4:10 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:59 pm So in theory he'd be a constant hostage to over 200 idiots.

I'd say remove "In theory." It's insane. Look at Gym Jordan wrong in the hallway one day, and he is facing a vote. According to the Pod Save guys, McCarthy caved on a bunch of their terms after the first vote, and they just moved the goal posts and asked for more. You can't negotiate with those morons, and if you do, they will just ask for more. They have no end game in the negotiation other than to make a scene for their own personal glory. You invite seriously stupid, uneducated wingnuts into the party and you eventually pay the price.