The Swamp

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 12:37 pm**

Some clips from the transcript of a recent podcast between Sirota and Bill McGee, a senior fellow for aviation and travel at the American Economic Liberties Project who spent 38 years working in the airline industry, including flight operations (I've tried to clean up some of the spelling/grammar, as it was done by Otter - I enjoyed how sometimes, Pete's last name was spelled correctly while it also appeared as "Buddha judge").

All the quotes are from McGee, who also provides some history at the outset about how it all goes back to deregulation in 1978 where the explanation was roughly "capitalism will make it all work out". Then, several airline mergers (all with congressional approval) later, there are four US airlines that control approximately 85% of the air travel market. There are also fewer new entrants into air travel (which was the opposite of what was expected in the text of the Deregulation Act) because people don't want to invest in airlines with lower fares simply because they will make less money.

"This is a systemic problem. The DOT is a broken regulatory model. Since the first day, it was sort of baked into the DOT, that it would have this dual mandate that it would support the industry and regulate it. It's something that can't be done. It's one of the other. And by the way, the airline industry does not need to be supported by the government at this point. They are the seventh largest industry in terms of lobbying dollars, according to opensecrets.org. They do just fine."

"The real issue is that the airlines are over scheduling, they are operating at peak capacity. 24/7 transportation systems are not designed to operate like this."

"He (Pete) is the only sheriff in town. And I don't think we can discuss the airline industry and its problems without this critical context. It's two words, it's a legal term called federal preemption. And basically, at the last minute, in 1978, when deregulation was passed, and President Carter signed it, they added this thing that said, basically, only the federal government will have authority over the US airline industry, and even more specifically, only the US Department of Transportation, and Congress. You have to really understand that to have any kind of conversation about what's been happening. And far too many people don't understand it, and I get it. It's a very geeky legalistic term, I've talked to lawyers that don't know what it is.

The bottom line in plain English means as it as a consumer in the United States, you have fewer rights dealing with an airline than you do with virtually any other industry. You cannot sue in state courts, you cannot file class action lawsuits in state courts, state agencies, the attorneys general across the country, do not have any authority of the airline industry, state legislatures have passed bills to rein in the airline industry, they immediately get shut down by Federal Court on appeal. So what we have is the thing that we were all told in seventh or eighth grade is not supposed to happen in America checks and balances, there are none.

We have one person who is the czar of the airline industry. And, as I said, I've been very critical of Secretary Buttigieg. And I think my criticism has been fair and accurate. But the bottom line is, he's got plenty of predecessors too, who were the same way. And so you have this systemic problem, not years, decades, where the DOT doesn't rein in the excesses of the airline industry, and no one else can."

"Think about it for a moment, all of these crises with the flight cancellations with the $10 billion in unpaid refunds since COVID. Started, as a friend of mine said to me, who also does this type of work, he said, we wouldn't even be talking about this If this was any other industry, because if the DOT failed to act, people would have been filing class action lawsuits. You owe me money, there would have been refunds pay.

The state attorney general, in Colorado, Phil Weiser. He said, you know, Frontier is in his backyard in Denver. They were not paying refunds. And he said, If it was any other industry put out a press release. He said publicly, I can't do anything. My hands are tied. Any other industry, I'd be all over the state legislatures would have passed laws saying you know, that it reign in this industry. So you can't stress it enough.

When I hear people say, 'Well, what can the Secretary of Transportation do? If the Secretary of Transportation doesn't act on the airline industry?' There's nothing to do. We have no other choice.

There's Congress, but obviously, Congress takes a while it's a long, cumbersome process. There are political considerations. It's very hard to get back. Trust me, I have been advocating for legislation in Congress for decades now. But with Senator Buttigieg, if he had reigned in the excesses a year ago, six months ago, three months ago in the summer, if he had levied real fines against the airlines... We all know that he's very eloquent and he has good presence in the media. And we've seen him a lot in the last week and in the last months. And what is he saying? He's talked to the airlines, he's asked the airlines, he's requested that it's not good enough. This is an industry that has not had so much as a $1 fine at all in the last year and a half on any of these excessive and record breaking flight cancellations. This is an industry that I mentioned, the $10 billion in refunds."

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 12:39 pm**

Here we go. I think I've seen this episode before.

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 12:44 pm**

Very fun to see constant lapdog approval for a dude who's best quality is that he's very clearly a robot built by McKinsey for the purpose of politics and act like that doesn't exist.

Jesus, Herschel Walker almost became a senator. Of course Pete is better than him or any other psycho asshole with a "-R" next to his/her name.

BUT THAT ISN'T THE POINT. That's a garbo strawman.

Admit he's a perfectly constructed proto-politician that's been sent from Corporate America to save us. That's all I ask. Stop pretending everything has been on the up and up with him.

And the crazy thing is, I like the guy! Dude's sharp. He knows the exact words to say and the exact crowd to say it to. He isn't responsible for supply chain issues or Southwest's greed and arrogance.

But dontcha think it's just a little sus he jumped from mayor of the 4th largest city in Indiana to what he is now? Trump went from blustering idiot for decades to president and everyone, RIGHTFULLY, went "What the fuck?" But this guy gets a complete pass because he's a democrat. (Same with Hillary Clinton. She went from First Lady to New York Senator. Because that job clearly led into the next.)

I feel like a fucking conspiracy theorist every time I try to make points like this.

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 12:48 pm**

I'm not sure the person that post is ostensibly arguing with exists on this board

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 12:52 pm**

I mean, not to me... I was trying to brag about having your take back when he first hit the scene. I don't know if it's sus as much as very fortuitous that he caught on during what I perceived to be a pretty weak primary field.

Also doesn't hurt that he's a gay married dude. Just in terms of checking off "acceptable" boxes and whatnot.

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 12:58 pm**

Look at how proud he is of himself...

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 12:59 pm**

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 12:22 pmThe folks who want to blame him for Southwest's pilot scheduling programs are mostly people who oppose him and are looking for things to blame him for.

Would you say the people defending him are mostly people who support him and tout the role he's in while also claimed the role has no enactable power?

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:03 pm**

Johnnie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 12:44 pmAnd the crazy thing is, I like the guy! Dude's sharp. He knows the exact words to say and the exact crowd to say it to. He isn't responsible for supply chain issues or Southwest's greed and arrogance.

But dontcha think it's just a little sus he jumped from mayor of the 4th largest city in Indiana to what he is now?

This works. There can be a role for Buttigieg that I would be perfectly fine with, but its clearly not the role he's being (can't use the word groomed these days) for or has aspirations for. People thought Palin from short-time governor of Alaska to VP was a leap but won't draw those same hard lines about mayor of the 300th largest city in America to final 4 in the Dem presidential primary?

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:04 pm**

Brontoburglar wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 12:48 pm I'm not sure the person that post is ostensibly arguing with exists on this board

I would hope not, but that's the feeling I get every time myself or Mr. D or anyone cracks on him for being whiter than Mitt Romney in a snowstorm or saying him getting the position he did is due to politics and not much else and there's this snap defense of him like everything was perfectly fine.

(Also fun to have the juxtaposition of a dude with 38 years in the aviation industry speak about the DOT and see that the guy running it is a 40 year old small town mayor who is good at words.)

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:10 pm**

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:03 pm
Johnnie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 12:44 pmAnd the crazy thing is, I like the guy! Dude's sharp. He knows the exact words to say and the exact crowd to say it to. He isn't responsible for supply chain issues or Southwest's greed and arrogance.

But dontcha think it's just a little sus he jumped from mayor of the 4th largest city in Indiana to what he is now?
This works. There can be a role for Buttigieg that I would be perfectly fine with, but its clearly not the role he's being (can't use the word groomed these days) for or has aspirations for. People thought Palin from short-time governor of Alaska to VP was a leap but won't draw those same hard lines about mayor of the 300th largest city in America to final 4 in the Dem presidential primary?

If he wanted to be a House Rep, perfect. That makes sense. I can even see Senator, honestly, if he's been active locally to his state the way Beto was. I get that.

But he jumped into the presidential cabinet for a position in a way that screamed "son of the owner of the company" just after turning 39. I'm 39. Like, come the fuck on.

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:10 pm**

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 12:59 pm
Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 12:22 pmThe folks who want to blame him for Southwest's pilot scheduling programs are mostly people who oppose him and are looking for things to blame him for.
Would you say the people defending him are mostly people who support him and tout the role he's in while also claimed the role has no enactable power?

I think there are many people who don't really care that much about Buttigieg one way or the other but who can also point out bullshit bad faith criticisms when they see them.

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:13 pm**

Johnnie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:04 pm
Brontoburglar wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 12:48 pm I'm not sure the person that post is ostensibly arguing with exists on this board
I would hope not, but that's the feeling I get every time myself or Mr. D or anyone cracks on him for being whiter than Mitt Romney in a snowstorm or saying him getting the position he did is due to politics and not much else and there's this snap defense of him like everything was perfectly fine.

(Also fun to have the juxtaposition of a dude with 38 years in the aviation industry speak about the DOT and see that the guy running it is a 40 year old small town mayor who is good at words.)

a lot of cabinet officials get positions solely on politics and it seems fair to say that what happened with the aforementioned numerous times private company would have happened regardless of who is currently in charge

and similar to what Steve said above, I don't think believing both of those things is an explicit endorsement of him

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:13 pm**

I'm not doubting his "personal love of transportation since childhood", but this sure feels like a kid whose prominent parents got him an internship that serves as nothing more than a great line on his future resume.

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:15 pm**

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:10 pmI think there are many people who don't really care that much about Buttigieg one way or the other but who can also point out bullshit bad faith criticisms when they see them.

And the bad faith is that we initially didn't think he was qualified to be president and then didn't embrace him as just the secretary of transportation?

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:23 pm**

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:13 pm I'm not doubting his "personal love of transportation since childhood", but this sure feels like a kid whose prominent parents got him an internship that serves as nothing more than a great line on his future resume.

If your point is that Buttigieg is a politician, and an ambitious one, I don't think anyone disagrees with that. I also don't think anyone disagrees that as an ambitious politician, he might say stuff that is cringingly bullshit.

But maybe the fact that he was able to get 25% of the vote in Iowa and 24% in New Hampshire means that he's able to connect to voters? And maybe the Dems should be cultivating and promoting young members who have the ability to connect to voters.

I certainly didn't support him in 2020, but my moderate "reasonable Republican" sister and her family did. The Dems don't seem to have that many people right now who can appeal to voters like that, who are necessary to win elections outside of deep blue areas.

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:23 pm**

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:15 pm
Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:10 pmI think there are many people who don't really care that much about Buttigieg one way or the other but who can also point out bullshit bad faith criticisms when they see them.
And the bad faith is that we initially didn't think he was qualified to be president and then didn't embrace him as just the secretary of transportation?

Lol.

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:24 pm**

Anyhoo, Kevin lost again. 8th vote coming up.

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:27 pm**

This whole charade has Big 'Hillary Clinton Deserves To Be President' Energy to me. And it's kinda fun to watch it not happen even when you know the alternative suuuuuuucks.

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:28 pm**

Johnnie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:24 pm Anyhoo, Kevin lost again. 8th vote coming up.

It boggles my mind that the House cannot even do anything without the Speaker being decided.

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:31 pm**

DaveInSeattle wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 12:58 pm Look at how proud he is of himself...

Why's he gotta copy me?

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:56 pm**

Johnnie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:24 pm Anyhoo, Kevin lost again. 8th vote coming up.

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 2:02 pm**

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:23 pm
mister d wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:13 pm I'm not doubting his "personal love of transportation since childhood", but this sure feels like a kid whose prominent parents got him an internship that serves as nothing more than a great line on his future resume.
I certainly didn't support him in 2020, but my moderate "reasonable Republican" sister and her family did. The Dems don't seem to have that many people right now who can appeal to voters like that, who are necessary to win elections outside of deep blue areas.

Which was the point I was making about going on Fox. Not many Dems can do that. It takes a certain, shall we say borderline robotic personality to pull that off.

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 2:04 pm**

Listening to Andy Biggs wax poetic of Byron Donalds as a legit Speaker of the House is the highest comedy to me.

It's like a 7th grader ad-libbing a project with a speech portion.

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 2:05 pm**

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 2:02 pmWhich was the point I was making about going on Fox. Not many Dems can do that. It takes a certain, shall we say borderline robotic personality to pull that off.

Does this mean Fox is incompetently letting a centrist vote-syphoner onto their programs?

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 2:05 pm**

DaveInSeattle wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:56 pm
Johnnie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:24 pm Anyhoo, Kevin lost again. 8th vote coming up.

1) I loved that show.

2) I forgot how cute some of those girls were.

3) In the third grade, my teacher had us do kind of an improv about inclusion/exclusion. One of the "skits" was about a bunch of boys putting together a baseball team. There were 8 players and a girl wanted to join the team. After a few rather stilted back and forths the class clown piped up and said, "We don't need you... Eight.. IS ENOUGH!"

It absolutely brought the house down to the point that the teacher just moved on to the next skit without resolving the issue.

To this day, one of the best improv moments I've seen.

/pointlessness

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 2:19 pm**

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 2:05 pm
DaveInSeattle wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:56 pm
Johnnie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:24 pm Anyhoo, Kevin lost again. 8th vote coming up.

1) I loved that show.

So did I...but seeing that picture brought up some questions that I remember thinking...

A) How did Dick Van Patten, as a widower, manage landing the hottie Abby?

B) How did a local newspaper columnist afford to have 8 kids?

C) Was it the only show ever set in Sacramento?

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 2:21 pm**

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:23 pm
mister d wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:13 pm I'm not doubting his "personal love of transportation since childhood", but this sure feels like a kid whose prominent parents got him an internship that serves as nothing more than a great line on his future resume.
If your point is that Buttigieg is a politician, and an ambitious one, I don't think anyone disagrees with that. I also don't think anyone disagrees that as an ambitious politician, he might say stuff that is cringingly bullshit.

The The Official Mayor Pete/Dept of Transportation thread is over there...

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 2:23 pm**

DaveInSeattle wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 2:19 pm
Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 2:05 pm
DaveInSeattle wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:56 pm
Johnnie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:24 pm Anyhoo, Kevin lost again. 8th vote coming up.

1) I loved that show.
So did I...but seeing that picture brought up some questions that I remember thinking...

A) How did Dick Van Patten, as a widower, manage landing the hottie Abby?

B) How did a local newspaper columnist afford to have 8 kids?

C) Was it the only show ever set in Sacramento?

First off, how dare you. DVP was charming as fuck.

But, also... C'mon man. Fairly common for guys to outkick their coverage at that age.

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 2:24 pm**

DaveInSeattle wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:56 pm
Johnnie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:24 pm Anyhoo, Kevin lost again. 8th vote coming up.

We're headed for this, honestly:

And it'll have just as many sexual predators involved!

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 2:42 pm**

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:03 pm
Johnnie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 12:44 pmAnd the crazy thing is, I like the guy! Dude's sharp. He knows the exact words to say and the exact crowd to say it to. He isn't responsible for supply chain issues or Southwest's greed and arrogance.

But dontcha think it's just a little sus he jumped from mayor of the 4th largest city in Indiana to what he is now?
This works. There can be a role for Buttigieg that I would be perfectly fine with, but its clearly not the role he's being (can't use the word groomed these days) for or has aspirations for. People thought Palin from short-time governor of Alaska to VP was a leap but won't draw those same hard lines about mayor of the 300th largest city in America to final 4 in the Dem presidential primary?

I'm not a fan of Pete (liked the idea of him at first, but then found him to be a completely empty suit waiting for handlers to program his opinions), but this is a particularly bad argument. Palin was a leap because she was clearly out of her depths. An intelligent and savvy person with a short stint as Governor of Alaska wouldn't have drawn the same criticism, especially if they had an ivy league education, military service, and the rest of Pete's background. While I don't think he is ready to be President, you act like being a small city mayor is the only thing he has ever done.

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 2:48 pm**

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:29 pm**

Looks like #9 isn't working for McCarthy.

How long does this idiocy continue for?

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:33 pm**

Pruitt IV wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:29 pm Looks like #9 isn't working for McCarthy.

How long does this idiocy continue for?

If it goes past next friday (i think) congressional staff(I'm sure the reps themselves will get paid, just not staff) cannot be paid, so that would be a nasty wrinkle.

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:51 pm**

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Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:37 pm**

I can’t tell if that was a joke or if it’s real but either way that’s funny.

The Swamp

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