The Official Swamp Dating Thread

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:43 am

If you're interested in a life-long relationship, dating is not a competitive sport. Converting a clear 'no' to a 'yes' is not a win unless you are looking for someone who is schizophrenic.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:49 am

I like that advice. I've never really understood chasing someone who isn't into you; like even if it works wouldn't you always hold onto doubt that you were a fallback plan?

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:58 am

Perhaps. But if it works out in the long-term, you shouldn't be concerned about what you were.

My concern is that I don't observe many long-term relationship successes that have resulted from pursuing someone who says 'no.' Especially not if they've known you more than a few hours. The odds are heavily against long-term success even when two people are highly attracted to each other. Where the fit seems good from both parties point of view, right off the bat. Pursuing relationships that start out with one party saying 'no' lowers the odds even more. If you're at an age where the clock is ticking, why kill time on low odds options?

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Thu Dec 18, 2014 12:02 pm

yeah you guys are right.

She's still a good friend and we can still hang out but that's it.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu Dec 18, 2014 12:06 pm

Well, there's a middle ground there that could be cool too.

P.D.X. · Post by **P.D.X.** » Thu Dec 18, 2014 12:12 pm

AB_skin_test wrote:No. Don't waste date time on a dead end.

This.

I know the whole "nice-guy" friend thing is your schtick, but freezing her out will only pique her curiosity. Being her eunuch companion? Not so much.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Thu Dec 18, 2014 12:29 pm

P.D.X. wrote:
AB_skin_test wrote:No. Don't waste date time on a dead end.
This.

I know the whole "nice-guy" friend thing is your schtick, but freezing her out will only pique her curiosity. Being her eunuch companion? Not so much.

I prefer "good-guy". I try my best in daily life to be kind, courteous and honest. And will call people out on their shit. I actually despise nice guys and totally understand why girls don't like nice guys and nice guys finish last. Nice guys aren't nice at all. In fact they're pretty nasty. Nice guys are people-pleasers, brownosers and will avoid any conflict. Nice guys never have your back, they will easily switch sides to please others. Why would girls like guys who are fake and are only nice because they want something in return.

We've all met these guys in life. At the office he will come to you and talk about annoying Coworker Chick (who you think it annoying as well) hoping you will complain on his behalf. When you complain and need a witness he will be nice to Coworker Chick and undermine you.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:12 pm

Brontoburglar wrote:Was she praying you'd get up and leave her?

Crackerjack

L-Jam3 · Post by **L-Jam3** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:28 am

I think it was Louis CK, and this is great advice I'm going to give my son. You don't have to be a nice man, but you do have to be a good man.

P.D.X. · Post by **P.D.X.** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:51 am

See, I have a different take. Of course, we should all strive to be "good" people and live by some semblance of a moral code, but the problem is, a lot of guys feel that being a "good guy" means that they're automatically deserving of female affection. Problem is, that most of the attributes that women are attracted to are essentially amoral; confidence, humor, physical prowess, resourcefulness, intelligence can all be equally be inherent in "bad" men as they are in "good" men. (If you ever want a real mindfuck, do a little research into the phenomena of the attention that incarcerated serial killers and terrorists receive from females.)

So yes, be a good person because it makes the world better and helps you sleep at night, but never operate under the delusion that being a "good guy" entitles you to a quality mate.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:01 am

But like you said, those qualities you listed aren't inherently bad, they just escalate an existing bad like greed. You can be confident and have physical prowess and intelligence and still be a good, upstanding guy who plays shortstop in New York for two decades.

(Although I think the flaw with "be good" is that most people are convinced they're good and that actions the masses would consider indicative of a bad person are internalized as outliers or excusable for other circumstances.)

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:17 am

P.D.X. wrote:See, I have a different take. Of course, we should all strive to be "good" people and live by some semblance of a moral code, but the problem is, a lot of guys feel that being a "good guy" means that they're automatically deserving of female affection. Problem is, that most of the attributes that women are attracted to are essentially amoral; confidence, humor, physical prowess, resourcefulness, intelligence can all be equally be inherent in "bad" men as they are in "good" men. (If you ever want a real mindfuck, do a little research into the phenomena of the attention that incarcerated serial killers and terrorists receive from females.)

So yes, be a good person because it makes the world better and helps you sleep at night, but never operate under the delusion that being a "good guy" entitles you to a quality mate.

I think what you're describing is the 'nice guy'. The one who always wants a trade off. If I'm nice, people need to give me something in return.

This is what makes nice guys pretty nasty. I categorize it into these traits

1. They try to become what they think other people want them to be in order to be loved and liked and get their needs met. They are passive, avoid conflict and have no integrity.

2. They live in an 'if-then' world.

a) If I’m a nice guy, then people will like me and love me, and in the case of dating the girl I desire, she will desire me back.

b) if I meet other people’s needs without them having to ask, then they will meet my needs without me having to ask

c) if I do everything right, or maybe at least hide the fact when I make mistakes, but if I do everything right, then I will have a smooth, problem-free life.

But, if you’re hiding things about yourself, seeking approval, you’re not going to be honest. You’re not going to tell the truth. You’re not going to say what you really want. You’re not going to let people know if they’re doing something that bothers you. You won’t have any boundaries. You will steal from A to impress B.

So girls like good guys and bad guys but not nice guys. Because nice guys aren't honest.

The 'good guy' does things honestly and not for any return. I try my best to speak and say good morning equally to everyone. From the CEO to the cleaners. I try to open doors and hold elevators for everyone.

I don't just hold doors for the hot girl hoping she'll notice it and sleep with me. I'll also hold the door for you as well (hoping you'll sleep with me).

L-Jam3 · Post by **L-Jam3** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:43 am

Glad to hear that last part, DeGen. I've always had a case of yellow fever.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:53 am

I have a completely different definition of nice guy than Degen. Degen's definition is more like a sociopath, calculating moves based purely on analyzing the action that will get the best results. People fitting Degen's description certainly aren't the nice guys girls aren't attracted to. They are the lying assholes who say what girls want to hear, and use them.

I think PDX is on the same page as me, but the Nice Guy treats people well and is polite out of genuinely caring or a need to please people. The Nice Guy lacks confidence with girls, and doesn't make a strong enough move to register until it is too late. The Nice Guy thinks too much instead of acting, making bold decisions, doing spontaneous things. Like PDX said, the traits women are attracted too are amoral. You can be a good guy with all the traits, or a good Nice Guy with none of the traits.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:58 am

There also seems to be a common thread of the nice guy pining after the 9 and thinking eventually she'll just pick him like life is an 80s movie.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:07 pm

I think there's some overlap. I was once that bitter guy who was like "I just took this girl out and paid for 3 dates, is she just showing up for free meals?" I made her split the bill the 4th date and never heard from her again.

'nice guys' are results oriented and 'good guys' are just good guys.

Nice guys are nice to get a result. Outside of dating, in the workplace we all know the guy who avoids conflict and never speaks up. Or the guy who takes you out for coffee, pays for it, and then wants gossip or wants you to help him with something down the road.

Good guys just want to hang out. Lets just go to the bar after work and shoot the shit. No results necessary.

Post by **Shirley** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:12 pm

Degen, that is the most fucked up definition of "nice" I've ever seen.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:10 pm

Shirley wrote:Degen, that is the most fucked up definition of "nice" I've ever seen.

Yeah, I'm not sure how that's nice. It's scheming. Certainly (fake) nice.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:12 pm

mister d wrote:There also seems to be a common thread of the nice guy pining after the 9 and thinking eventually she'll just pick him like life is an 80s movie.

Or a sitcom where the main man is ugly/stupid/doofus/etc and the wife is hot, witty and smart and they totally would not be a fit in real life.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:27 pm

So you're saying my life is not real? Harsh.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:00 pm

I say that as someone who has been told by more than one outside party I'm out of my league. But they apparently don't know about Irish penises, amiright???

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:51 pm

My experience is too limited to judge this one.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 7:51 pm

P.D.X. wrote:(If you ever want a real mindfuck, do a little research into the phenomena of the attention that incarcerated serial killers and terrorists receive from females.)

So, the lesson learned from all these posts is that degen needs to act a bit more like Charles Manson. Clearly, chicks dig him. He even just got married.

Post by **Shirley** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:23 am

sancarlos wrote:
P.D.X. wrote:(If you ever want a real mindfuck, do a little research into the phenomena of the attention that incarcerated serial killers and terrorists receive from females.)
So, the lesson learned from all these posts is that degen needs to act a bit more like Charles Manson. Clearly, chicks dig him. He even just got married.

Or maybe learn to discern the subtle differences between genuine nice behavior and manipulative sociopathy. Either or.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:36 pm

genuine nice = good
fake/doormat nice = nice

that's the distinction I was explaining.

EdRomero · Post by **EdRomero** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 2:00 pm

Pruitt wrote:
EdRomero wrote:I finally started in with OKCupid. When you're 40, the women are a bunch of divorced or overweight or "still finding themselves" or socially awkward like me, and/or Asians. Had a first date last Friday. She said she had to pray before eating, but I could start. Being the gentleman I am, I waited, and waited, and waited...probably about 3 minutes. And because I'm an idiot, I return her texts (she sends a lot of emoticons). Rather than telling her this won't be working out, I'm considering sending texts that are plagiarized from Jerloma's posts in the Godless thread.

So in other words, you're doing better than me degenerasian. Enjoy tonight.
Nice rack?

They were nice, but I did not determine if they were genuinely nice or fake/doormat nice. I don't think I'll ever know if they were good or nice.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 2:44 pm

EdRomero wrote:
Pruitt wrote:
EdRomero wrote:I finally started in with OKCupid. When you're 40, the women are a bunch of divorced or overweight or "still finding themselves" or socially awkward like me, and/or Asians. Had a first date last Friday. She said she had to pray before eating, but I could start. Being the gentleman I am, I waited, and waited, and waited...probably about 3 minutes. And because I'm an idiot, I return her texts (she sends a lot of emoticons). Rather than telling her this won't be working out, I'm considering sending texts that are plagiarized from Jerloma's posts in the Godless thread.

So in other words, you're doing better than me degenerasian. Enjoy tonight.
Nice rack?
They were nice, but I did not determine if they were genuinely nice or fake/doormat nice. I don't think I'll ever know if they were good or nice.

We really need a Thanks button.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:52 pm

For some reason a liked photo of Anna Akana appeared in my Facebook feed. For some reason I YouTubed her. And for some reason I watched this video:

Did you get that nice guy/good guy thing from her?

Anyhoo, nice, good, decent, friendly, whatever. Don't act like you're owed something because you're someone that girls say they want. I learned that too late in life. And don't be lame. Nine times out of ten, that choir boy persona is lame. And is perceived as weak. Weak and lame equals no bueno.

elflaco · Post by **elflaco** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:18 pm

so much for nice guys

http://www.theonion.com/articles/dates- ... NA:InFocus

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:25 pm

I wonder how Zman is doing

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:49 pm

elflaco wrote:so much for nice guys

http://www.theonion.com/articles/dates- ... NA:InFocus

When did the Onion start writing real stories?

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:55 pm

elflaco wrote:so much for nice guys

http://www.theonion.com/articles/dates- ... NA:InFocus

Good, but should have ended with him not being interested because she was a 9, and he only dates 10s.

EdRomero · Post by **EdRomero** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:42 pm

degenerasian wrote:
elflaco wrote:so much for nice guys

http://www.theonion.com/articles/dates- ... NA:InFocus
When did the Onion start writing real stories?

Another realistic story from the Onion that describes most of my dating life: http://www.theonion.com/articles/study- ... ned,36612/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 7:35 pm

I wish you better luck in the coming year. There are a lot of wonderful people out there, at every age, who just happen to be unattached.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:15 pm

18,000 Hungarian Forint for a rub, tug, & blow from a hot Hungarian chick is totally worth it.

Fappy New Year from Budapest!

Post by **brian** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:19 pm

Johnnie wrote:18,000 Hungarian Forint for a rub, tug, & blow from a hot Hungarian chick is totally worth it.

Fappy New Year from Budapest!

When I was there, that would have been about $90. Sounds about right.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:22 pm

Johnnie wrote:18,000 Hungarian Forint for a rub, tug, & blow from a hot Hungarian chick is totally worth it.

Fappy New Year from Budapest!

Best post of the year?

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:22 pm

Johnnie wrote:18,000 Hungarian Forint for a rub, tug, & blow from a hot Hungarian chick is totally worth it.

Fappy New Year from Budapest!

= $69.46 US$ per the site I just checked.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:24 pm

It's $70 or so at the moment according to my app.

Post by **brian** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:27 pm

Even better. Makes sense though. Dollar's a lot stronger now than 2006. Back then it was 200 forint = $1