The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

[The Sybian]

Seems like it would not be the end. I assume they have a private army at this point.

The "2nd amendment types" are the private Army. People don't seem to be hip to that.

Ever notice how the only people who think the government is going to "take yur guns" are the same people, who in the current state of affairs, are in love with Republican control?

Notice that when "2nd Amendment Types" protest the "gubment" it's with firepower and the police do nothing, but if it's a group of black people or leftists or whatever they've painted "ANTIFA" as, the cops use their firepower to control everything?

I think it was Charlottesville with, not just nazi wannabes with tiki torches, but actual militia type groups just armed walking around.

There just seems to be this underbelly of festering hate just waiting for a signal or moment to be given the green light to conduct violence and the state will give subtle approval while the media will call for fair debate on both sides. Not like a Kristallnacht type deal, per se, but something to the effect.

That's a great point. We have always kind of laughed off the gun nut militia types. There have been the occasional David Koresh and Ruby Ridge type incidents, but they were so limited, it was never a general public threat. A couple years ago, we had the Tea Party nutters all decide to carry large rifles around public parks and Starbucks to protest Obama, but if there is a major signaling event, and a big enough movement, it could get ugly. If Mueller goes after the NRA and evidence of a Trump crime comes out, the TweetinFuhrer could set off a mass riot. And the irony, it will largely be Blue Lives Matter people backing the gun nutters against the police

[Joe K]

Seems like it would not be the end. I assume they have a private army at this point.

The "2nd amendment types" are the private Army. People don't seem to be hip to that.

Ever notice how the only people who think the government is going to "take yur guns" are the same people, who in the current state of affairs, are in love with Republican control?

Notice that when "2nd Amendment Types" protest the "gubment" it's with firepower and the police do nothing, but if it's a group of black people or leftists or whatever they've painted "ANTIFA" as, the cops use their firepower to control everything?

Some of the NRA's recent marketing campaigns pretty clearly play up racial tension -- i.e., "Real Americans" need firepower to defend against dangerous, unruly minorities. That's also why the NRA didn't say a damn thing when Philando Castille was shot and killed by the police while lawfully possessing his gun. The NRA only cares about gun rights for "us" and not "them."

[Johnnie]

Philando Castile's death was the exact moment when it was obvious the NRA is nothing more than a racist propaganda arm of the firearms manufacturing corporations. Not a terrorist group like Olbermann said, but a group that would love dead Americans just the same.

It was always obvious to people like us here, but when a black man is killed by a cop for doing everything the gun rights crowd says you should do and the preeminent "gunna rights" lobby says nothing, it spoke volumes.

And you're right Syb, the Blue Lives Matter crowd is in cahoots with the 2nd Amendment Types. Every time I see a Punisher logo made from a vertically hanging American flag with a blue stripe where a red stripe should be, I want that person to fall off a cliff. More asshole militia scumbags "hiding" in plain sight.

[The Sybian]

So this is where our President gets his information and opinions... How have I never seen this classic clip of Fox and Friends?

[mister d]

Philando Castile's death was the exact moment when it was obvious the NRA is nothing more than a racist propaganda arm of the firearms manufacturing corporations. Not a terrorist group like Olbermann said, but a group that would love dead Americans just the same.

Not to be pedantic, but that’s absolutely terrorist.

[EnochRoot]

[Johnnie]

Philando Castile's death was the exact moment when it was obvious the NRA is nothing more than a racist propaganda arm of the firearms manufacturing corporations. Not a terrorist group like Olbermann said, but a group that would love dead Americans just the same.

Not to be pedantic, but that’s absolutely terrorist.

Not to be pedantic, but there's no religious angle nor the intent to overthrow the government.

[A_B]

Philando Castile's death was the exact moment when it was obvious the NRA is nothing more than a racist propaganda arm of the firearms manufacturing corporations. Not a terrorist group like Olbermann said, but a group that would love dead Americans just the same.

Not to be pedantic, but that’s absolutely terrorist.

Not to be pedantic, but there's no religious angle nor the intent to overthrow the government.

Wanting Americans dead is terroristic.

[tennbengal]

Philando Castile's death was the exact moment when it was obvious the NRA is nothing more than a racist propaganda arm of the firearms manufacturing corporations. Not a terrorist group like Olbermann said, but a group that would love dead Americans just the same.

Not to be pedantic, but that’s absolutely terrorist.

Not to be pedantic, but there's no religious angle nor the intent to overthrow the government.

I disagree with both those conclusions.

[Pruitt]

Allegations of money laundering at Trump properties surface in U.S. hearing transcript

Shnaider is the guy on the future President's right.

[tennbengal]

I do strongly agree with this:

There just seems to be this underbelly of festering hate just waiting for a signal or moment to be given the green light to conduct violence and the state will give subtle approval while the media will call for fair debate on both sides. Not like a Kristallnacht type deal, per se, but something to the effect.

[mister d]

Agreed, but if Charlottesville was a trial balloon it doesn’t bode well for their side in the long term.

[degenerasian]

Are the Democrats making the right choice here?
Why not take 1 month of funding for 6 years of CHIP. Seems like a political win for the Dems and that funding expires before DACA does. Take the win on CHIP and push the DACA fight one more month.?

[tennbengal]

Why in the world would you think the Dems should believe any republican promises on Dreamers?

That's why.

[DSafetyGuy]

If Republicans actually cared about passing CHIP on its merits, they would write a separate law for it instead of tying it to everything else. Tying it to everything gives the party in control of both houses of the legislature and the executive branch the chance to whine about the Democrats causing the stoppage.

Ignorant people believe the whining.

Ignorance is a motherfucker.

[mister d]

Are the Democrats making the right choice here?
Why not take 1 month of funding for 6 years of CHIP. Seems like a political win for the Dems and that funding expires before DACA does. Take the win on CHIP and push the DACA fight one more month.?

Same reason the US has a policy against paying ransoms to kidnappers.

[Gunpowder]

Democrats should offer to extend the Trump tax cuts for 10 more years in exchange for a couple months of no-questions-asked free abortions in every state.

[Rush2112]

The NRA only cares about gun rights for "us" and not "them."

Famously for gun control during the Black Power movement of the late 60s. We'd be better off if they had stayed a marksmanship organization.

[The Sybian]

Are the Democrats making the right choice here?
Why not take 1 month of funding for 6 years of CHIP. Seems like a political win for the Dems and that funding expires before DACA does. Take the win on CHIP and push the DACA fight one more month.?

Same reason the US has a policy against paying ransoms to kidnappers.

Exactly. The Republicans might as well be saying "we will agree not to burn your house down if you agree to give us everything we want." The sick thing, Republicans are going on TV saying Dems don't care about healthcare for poor children, because they refuse to fund CHIP. It's such dirty, disgusting politics. If the government shits down, they will fully blame the Dems, despite controlling both Houses and the White House. Trumps is already claiming the Dems want to shut down the government to avoid lowering taxes. The GOP have a long held ploy of sabotaging government agencies, and saying, "see, government doesn't work." That is exactly what they are doing with Obamacare, cut funding, throttle back people's ability to sign up, and say the Dem's plan failed.

[Gunpowder]

The NRA only cares about gun rights for "us" and not "them."

Famously for gun control during the Black Power movement of the late 60s. We'd be better off if they had stayed a marksmanship organization.

And resurfaces all the time.

When this happened:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Corey_Jones

Some of my NRA type friends on FB were posting things like, "he had a gun! See!".....uhh, wait, why can't he have a gun? He's got a license for it. He works late nights at bars.....sounds like he actually would need one much more than you would, guy who drives an F-250 to his office job.

[tennbengal]

Also, degen, I don't know if you know this or not, but the Republican party has majorities in the house and senate. And sits in the White House. So...their inability to pass a continuing spending resolution is the Dems fault?

What now?

[brian]

Also, degen, I don't know if you know this or not, but the Republican party has majorities in the house and senate. And sits in the White House. So...their inability to pass a continuing spending resolution is the Dems fault?

What now?

I do agree with this obviously, but I what would your opinion be if the GOP just tried to pass a straight CR for funding*. Just basically something to keep things the status quo and keep the lights on until after the midterms.

If I'm the Dems I think they have to join in and vote yes. I hate the way the GOP plays games with the debt ceiling, especially when a Democrat is in the White House.

* - This presumes all of the esoteric in-fighting within the GOP doesn't exist of course, but still -- for the purposes of the exercise.

[Gunpowder]

They need more Alan Graysons and Anthony Weiners, but like a version who doesn't repeatedly send dick pics to high school kids.

[degenerasian]

Also, degen, I don't know if you know this or not, but the Republican party has majorities in the house and senate. And sits in the White House. So...their inability to pass a continuing spending resolution is the Dems fault?

What now?

i'm not casting blame, i'm just curious what the Dems should do to save these initiatives

[brian]

Also, degen, I don't know if you know this or not, but the Republican party has majorities in the house and senate. And sits in the White House. So...their inability to pass a continuing spending resolution is the Dems fault?

What now?

i'm not casting blame, i'm just curious what the Dems should do to save these initiatives

Nothing. It's not their job to bail the Republicans out.

ETA: Put another way. These initiatives (DACA, the border wall, etc.) shouldn't be tied to CRs to keep the government funded. If the Republicans want to work out a deal on DACA that includes border security that's one thing. It shouldn't have anything to do with keeping the government funded.

[Steve of phpBB]

Are the Democrats making the right choice here?
Why not take 1 month of funding for 6 years of CHIP. Seems like a political win for the Dems and that funding expires before DACA does. Take the win on CHIP and push the DACA fight one more month.?

In all honesty, I think this would be the right move. It will be really hard to get both CHIP and DACA in the same bill. And fighting for both at the same time lets the Republicans use CHIP as leverage on the Dems to give up DACA. If you can get long-term CHIP funding with a short-term CR, then do it. Instantly.

Then next month when the government shutdown appears again, you can hold firm on DACA.

[DaveInSeattle]

Also, degen, I don't know if you know this or not, but the Republican party has majorities in the house and senate. And sits in the White House. So...their inability to pass a continuing spending resolution is the Dems fault?

What now?

i'm not casting blame, i'm just curious what the Dems should do to save these initiatives

Nothing. It's not their job to bail the Republicans out.

ETA: Put another way. These initiatives (DACA, the border wall, etc.) shouldn't be tied to CRs to keep the government funded. If the Republicans want to work out a deal on DACA that includes border security that's one thing. It shouldn't have anything to do with keeping the government funded.

Which they did....until Stephen Miller and his band of minions barged into a the meeting with Sen Graham and Sen Durbin to sabotage the deal. This was after Trump said he'd "sign anything". And was the now infamous "ShitHole" meeting.

[mister d]

Are the Democrats making the right choice here?
Why not take 1 month of funding for 6 years of CHIP. Seems like a political win for the Dems and that funding expires before DACA does. Take the win on CHIP and push the DACA fight one more month.?

In all honesty, I think this would be the right move. It will be really hard to get both CHIP and DACA in the same bill. And fighting for both at the same time lets the Republicans use CHIP as leverage on the Dems to give up DACA. If you can get long-term CHIP funding with a short-term CR, then do it. Instantly.

Then next month when the government shutdown appears again, you can hold firm on DACA.

Aren't they insisting on wall funding as the tradeoff? That's a non-starter.

[Steve of phpBB]

Aren't they insisting on wall funding as the tradeoff? That's a non-starter.

Is large-scale wall funding part of the CR that is currently before the Senate? I'm probably okay with something like what was in the proposal the bipartisan Senators agreed on - 1.whatever billion in funding for wall-like measures.

But I agree, if approving this CR would mean funding and building the wall, then no.

[The Sybian]

Are the Democrats making the right choice here?
Why not take 1 month of funding for 6 years of CHIP. Seems like a political win for the Dems and that funding expires before DACA does. Take the win on CHIP and push the DACA fight one more month.?

In all honesty, I think this would be the right move. It will be really hard to get both CHIP and DACA in the same bill. And fighting for both at the same time lets the Republicans use CHIP as leverage on the Dems to give up DACA. If you can get long-term CHIP funding with a short-term CR, then do it. Instantly.

Then next month when the government shutdown appears again, you can hold firm on DACA.

Aren't they insisting on wall funding as the tradeoff? That's a non-starter.

That was my understanding. Then Trump accused the Dems of not caring about the DACA people being deported, despite Trump being the person who rescinded DACA. Again, he burned down the Dem's house, and blamed them for not caring about their house burning, because they refused to pay his extortion.

If the Dems give in on this, Trump and the GOP can simply hold everything hostage to get the Dems to sign off on horrible shit they want and can't get through.

[brian]

Democrats are playing with house money here and the Republicans either don't realize that or don't want to believe it.

No one sane is going to blame the Democrats if there's a government shutdown. Also, DACA and CHIP are massively popular programs and moderates don't want to see them go. So the Democrats have no incentive to give in. There are scenarios like the one Steve posited where it might make sense to get a deal done, but not if it means selling out either CHIP or DACA. That should be a non-starter. Personally I don't even give much of a shit about the wall (aside from it being a waste of government money), but it just provides unlimited bullets for Trump to keep shooting himself in the foot. He already promised the racists in his base a wall and nothing's been done yet. Just wait until 2020 when nothing has been done either.

[degenerasian]

Sounds like Trump is ready to fold on budget negotiations because he won't be able to go to Mar A Lago if he doesn't make a deal. Meeting with Schumer shortly.

[brian]

Sounds like Trump is ready to fold on budget negotiations because he won't be able to go to Mar A Lago if he doesn't make a deal. Meeting with Schumer shortly.

He's going to Mar-A-Lago one way or another. There's a $50K per person fundraiser tonight.

Of course, President Deals didn't work out the optics on that either.

[Ryan]

Schumer should keep fake-answering his phone and saying things like "no, no, extra crispy and NO mashed potatoes"

[brian]

This is another reason the Dems have the GOP over a barrel by the way. If the Republicans shut down the government controlling all three branches of government and then President Deals jets off to Mar-A-Lago for a $100K/couple fundraiser the next day, the optics on that are just...<kisses fingers>

[The Sybian]

This is another reason the Dems have the GOP over a barrel by the way. If the Republicans shut down the government controlling all three branches of government and then President Deals jets off to Mar-A-Lago for a $100K/couple fundraiser the next day, the optics on that are just...<kisses fingers>

And yet, this won't sway a single voter. It'll be used to argue the Dems refuse to come to the table and want Trump to fail. And Trump's supporters will complain that Dems will attack Trump on every little thing, like choosing to celebrate his anniversary. [Sure, he is celebrating his anniversary by having the taxpayers pay his business for him to stay there, and charging taxpayers for the Secret Service to use his facilities, golf carts, etc..., and charging his guests $50,000/person to attend, but we are just haters.]

[degenerasian]

No Kellyanne, this is what it looks like when a narcissist has a fundraiser at one of his properties and he wants to be there so everyone there can tell him how awesome he is. It’s the furthest thing from leadership.

[brian]

This is another reason the Dems have the GOP over a barrel by the way. If the Republicans shut down the government controlling all three branches of government and then President Deals jets off to Mar-A-Lago for a $100K/couple fundraiser the next day, the optics on that are just...<kisses fingers>

And yet, this won't sway a single voter. It'll be used to argue the Dems refuse to come to the table and want Trump to fail. And Trump's supporters will complain that Dems will attack Trump on every little thing, like choosing to celebrate his anniversary. [Sure, he is celebrating his anniversary by having the taxpayers pay his business for him to stay there, and charging taxpayers for the Secret Service to use his facilities, golf carts, etc..., and charging his guests $50,000/person to attend, but we are just haters.]

Completely disagree. A government shutdown with the GOP in control of the White House, House and Senate will not play well in middle America and they'll know who to blame regardless of who Trump and Fox News tell them to blame. Voters aren't quite that stupid (yet).

[The Sybian]

This is another reason the Dems have the GOP over a barrel by the way. If the Republicans shut down the government controlling all three branches of government and then President Deals jets off to Mar-A-Lago for a $100K/couple fundraiser the next day, the optics on that are just...<kisses fingers>

And yet, this won't sway a single voter. It'll be used to argue the Dems refuse to come to the table and want Trump to fail. And Trump's supporters will complain that Dems will attack Trump on every little thing, like choosing to celebrate his anniversary. [Sure, he is celebrating his anniversary by having the taxpayers pay his business for him to stay there, and charging taxpayers for the Secret Service to use his facilities, golf carts, etc..., and charging his guests $50,000/person to attend, but we are just haters.]

Completely disagree. A government shutdown with the GOP in control of the White House, House and Senate will not play well in middle America and they'll know who to blame regardless of who Trump and Fox News tell them to blame. Voters aren't quite that stupid (yet).

I was thinking about the 30% Trump supporters. The GOP keeps taking stands on wildly unpopular positions and supporting the most unpopular President in history. I am timidly taking a step out, believing that this may actually hurt them eventually.

[brian]

Well, if it ever gets to the point where the Dems have to feel like they have to win over that 30 percent then I wholeheartedly agree this country is well and truly fucked.