Jeeves is done shoveling, snow blower advice

[The Sybian]

Looking into getting a snow blower. I'm done with this shit. Any advice? Driveway is way too long for electric. I thought the idea of a Lithium battery blower was a cool idea, especially since the batteries are a universal size for numerous tools. They say they can clear up to 17-22 inches depending on the model, but reviews say they struggle with anything over 6 inches. That ain't going to cut it. Looks like gas is my only option. Electric starter would be nice.

[DC47]

Pay some teenagers?

[Brontoburglar]

This is what we have. It's fantastic. I can't recommend it high enough.

[brian]

What's snow?

[rass]

You're going to need to go gas.

[govmentchedda]

They don't have those at my Lowe's.

[DSafetyGuy]

They don't have those at my Lowe's.

They don't have our plowing service there, either.

[The Sybian]

This is what we have. It's fantastic. I can't recommend it high enough.

That looks nice, a great price, and available at the nearest Lowes. My driveway is a lot longer than the "good for" range, but I don't want to spend much more than that, either. It says good for up to 12 inches. I guess I'll have to go out in the middle of a big snow storm to keep it manageable, but that'll beat spending 4 hours shoveling. More if the kids want to "help."

[Brontoburglar]

This is what we have. It's fantastic. I can't recommend it high enough.

That looks nice, a great price, and available at the nearest Lowes. My driveway is a lot longer than the "good for" range, but I don't want to spend much more than that, either. It says good for up to 12 inches. I guess I'll have to go out in the middle of a big snow storm to keep it manageable, but that'll beat spending 4 hours shoveling. More if the kids want to "help."

When it's utilized, we usually end up using it for 12 driveways per snowfall. And we had a couple of near 12" snowfalls last year and it handled them no problem.

[A_B]

I think gas is appropraite for every yard tool. I have an electric leaf blower and I hate it with the burning passion of a thousand suns. Since we moved, however, there isn't much need to go out and spend on something that I use exclusively for blowing grass clippings.

[testuser2]

I have one a bit smaller than that from Sears. I even set it on fire once. Every few years I get it tuned up. It has the electiric starter, but I usually can get it started in two pulls and don't bother plugging it in.

[The Sybian]

I have one a bit smaller than that from Sears. I even set it on fire once. Every few years I get it tuned up. It has the electiric starter, but I usually can get it started in two pulls and don't bother plugging it in.

Sears is still under boycott. I hate them so much.

[DC47]

Snow blowers are expensive and rarely used. They take up valuable garage storage space, and require storing a hazardous flammable substance as well.

With local teens, you just call them up and hand them cash when they're done shovelling. You're promoting employment and character development. No storage required, unless they're your own.

[Sabo]

I have one a bit smaller than that from Sears. I even set it on fire once. Every few years I get it tuned up. It has the electiric starter, but I usually can get it started in two pulls and don't bother plugging it in.

Sears is still under boycott. I hate them so much.

Bummer, as I was going to recommend the Craftsman snow blower I have. I've had it for 8-10 years and I've never had a problem with it.

[The Sybian]

Snow blowers are expensive and rarely used. They take up valuable garage storage space, and require storing a hazardous flammable substance as well.

With local teens, you just call them up and hand them cash when they're done shovelling. You're promoting employment and character development. No storage required, unless they're your own.

The only neighborhood teen I knew went off to college. And he never helped his own parents shovel out. That always bothered me that he wasn't out there helping. The past 3 years we have had some horrible snow storms. It has taken me 4+ hours to dig out of a couple of storms. We seem to get very wet, heavy snow here. My parents still live in the snow belt of New York, and we have gotten more snow than them in most of the recent winters. For the past 4 or 5 years my father ridicules me for not buying a snow blower, and I keep thinking the previous year's snowfall was an abnormal season. But we keep getting big storms.

Sabo, I'm pretty sure Craftsman, Troy Bilt and many other brands others are all made by the same manufacturer (MTD, I think), so I'll just get the same machine from a different store if I want the craftsman. So far, Bronto's suggestion and this Sno-Tek model are the two top contenders. This model Sno-Tek is made by Ariens, but without the obnoxious orange color.

[DC47]

Around here the teenagers will go more than a few blocks to get a snow removal job. You can make real money doing this. That's not the case elsewhere?

[DSafetyGuy]

Around here the teenagers will go more than a few blocks to get a snow removal job. You can make real money doing this. That's not the case elsewhere?

I would guess that is more the individual kid and the parenting of same than location.

[DC47]

No doubt. But there might be a socioeconomic or cultural factor. For example, my guess is that there are fewer teen entrepreneurs going door-to-door with shovels in Greenwich than in most other places. There may be some optimal neighborhood in which the ratio of teens per house is in a certain range. Low enough that there are many houses without teens to shovel their parents drive but high enough that there are teens dispersed throughout the area. It could also be that family income needs to be below a certain level or you don't have enough motivated teens.

[DC47]

I'm thinking of snow removal quite a bit these days. The first factor is that I can no longer shovel our snow, and we've got a long driveway and sidewalk. I'm not feeling too good about this. The second is that I'm part of an interesting social innovation.

A small group of people in a fairly large neighborhood has purchased a tractor that removes snow from sidewalks. This private organization is clearing all the sidewalks in the entire neighborhood after each snowfall, regardless of whether an individual household -- which is legally responsible for clearing their own sidewalks -- is a funder of the project. I haven't seen the results of the fundraising, but my guess is that well under 5% of the 1000 or so households in the served area have made any contribution whatsoever. $20,000 is the start-up cost.

The concept is that the sidewalks provide public transportation. So there is a community-level benefit from having them cleared. Since our inept local government won't handle this -- they don't even handle snow removal from streets very well -- we're banding together to do it ourselves. This also removes pressure from those who aren't physically able to shovel sidewalks within 24 hours or each snowfall.

The tractor went into operation last week. As if by magic, sidewalks are clear throughout the neighborhood. In other areas of town, including school buildings, sidewalk snow removal is as spotty as it has always been. It's no surprise that there are already quite a few complaints about the neighborhood program. The project is climbing the learning curve.

I'm curious as to whether others have heard of any similar project?

[A_B]

It's a city ordinance here that you are supposed to shovel your walks for public safety, but it isn't a responsibility that the government takes. And honestly, they shouldn't. Too much money would be spent on such an effort, even with some kind of fleet of devices.

[DC47]

It's a city ordinance here too. However, enforcement is sporadic so sidewalk snow removal is too. Once an icepack forms, it's hard to remove. I imagine there are many injuries each winter due to bad walkways. And walking is impaired, especially for those who are less able. Hence our neighborhood effort. This project does not eliminate the city ordinance -- people are still technically responsible for clearing their sidewalks. It's just that if all goes well, they won't have to do so.

To be clear, this is not being paid for by any government. Individuals are funding the project. It's along the lines of a public radio model. Some provide the funding, everyone in the neighborhood benefits. The benefits are both having your sidewalk (along public roads, not your driveway or sidewalk up to the house) cleared without having to do the work yourself or pay for it to be done for you, and also having the ability to walk everywhere in the area without coping with hazardous sidewalk stretches. The latter benefit accrues to anyone who walks in the service area, including people who live outside the neighborhood. The area that is cleared is at least a square mile in area and includes most or all of the pathways to three schools, several parks, and to downtown.

[DC47]

It's a city ordinance here that you are supposed to shovel your walks for public safety, but it isn't a responsibility that the government takes. And honestly, they shouldn't. Too much money would be spent on such an effort, even with some kind of fleet of devices.

As above, our project is privately funded. But I think your point is debatable.

There would be many benefits if the city took responsibility for clearing public sidewalks (which the city actually has an easement on or owns) along public roads.

- More people could travel around the city by foot, rather than by car or not at all. Increased non-vehicular mobility is a benefit. It's curious to me that the city clears the public roads, but not the public sidewalks. The former are heavily used by out-of-town commuters and visitors who pay no taxes. Is car transit inherently better than walking?
- There would be fewer injuries -- which are a cost to the public that city government is supposed to serve -- due to inadequately cleared sidewalks.
- Obviously the most direct benefit is a reduction of work done by residents (or paid for by them) who would no longer shovel and salt public sidewalks adjacent to their property.
- The city currently spends money attempting to enforce the ordinance. That would be unnecessary if the city provided the service itself.

The actual cost of providing a centralized sidewalk snow removal service will be easier to estimate after our project has been in operation for awhile. This will provide useful information about the costs and benefits and so make it easier to consider whether the city government should provide the service for the whole community.

[brian]

It's a city ordinance here too. However, enforcement is sporadic so sidewalk snow removal is too. Once an icepack forms, it's hard to remove. I imagine there are many injuries each winter due to bad walkways. And walking is impaired, especially for those who are less able. Hence our neighborhood effort. This project does not eliminate the city ordinance -- people are still technically responsible for clearing their sidewalks. It's just that if all goes well, they won't have to do so.

To be clear, this is not being paid for by any government. Individuals are funding the project. It's along the lines of a public radio model. Some provide the funding, everyone in the neighborhood benefits. The benefits are both having your sidewalk (along public roads, not your driveway or sidewalk up to the house) cleared without having to do the work yourself or pay for it to be done for you, and also having the ability to walk everywhere in the area without coping with hazardous sidewalk stretches. The latter benefit accrues to anyone who walks in the service area, including people who live outside the neighborhood. The area that is cleared is at least a square mile in area and includes most or all of the pathways to three schools, several parks, and to downtown.

Out of curiosity, what city is this?

[DC47]

I replied via PM.

[wlu_lax6]

My best friend and I growing up hustled when it snowed. We had shovels and started the door to door campaign (including the time he tried to go alone and we ended up in a price war that was good for nobody). I am more than happy to shovel, mow my lawn, and rake leaves. It is not uncommon for the guy in a truck with a few day laborers ask if they can do the work as part of their "landscaping company". I always politely decline. However, the moment a teen asks I will hand over the work. Yet today I have not had a kid step up (Even the kid who mows his parent's lawn has not shown the will to do other people's yard work).

I am going to encourage my son in a few years to own the market. I am also going to encourage him to organize other kids in the neighborhood to work with him.

[DC47]

To be fair to today's teens, drug dealing is more profitable. Especially if you can easily convert your Adderall prescription to long green.

[The Sybian]

My best friend and I growing up hustled when it snowed. We had shovels and started the door to door campaign (including the time he tried to go alone and we ended up in a price war that was good for nobody). I am more than happy to shovel, mow my lawn, and rake leaves. It is not uncommon for the guy in a truck with a few day laborers ask if they can do the work as part of their "landscaping company". I always politely decline. However, the moment a teen asks I will hand over the work. Yet today I have not had a kid step up (Even the kid who mows his parent's lawn has not shown the will to do other people's yard work).

I am going to encourage my son in a few years to own the market. I am also going to encourage him to organize other kids in the neighborhood to work with him.

Just make sure he gets a taste of all of their earnings.

[DC47]

Yeah, and you should get a taste too, especially if it's your health insurance that's paying for the Adderall.

[A_B]

If people are too lazy to shovel their walks, are they gonna be motivated to get out and travel by foot because the city cleared the streets?

I don't know where you live, and if it's a metropolitan area I suppose there is a higher possibility that they would.

[The Sybian]

If people are too lazy to shovel their walks, are they gonna be motivated to get out and travel by foot because the city cleared the streets?

I don't know where you live, and if it's a metropolitan area I suppose there is a higher possibility that they would.

No, but if I shovel my walk and feel the need to walk down the street doesn't mean I am going to shovel everyone's walk. Any neighbor who doesn't pay into that, assuming they aren't struggling financially, is a complete douche.

[wlu_lax6]

One county over from me (top of the hill I live on is this county)
http://www.arlnow.com/2015/01/08/a-coun ... ordinance/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[DC47]

If people are too lazy to shovel their walks, are they gonna be motivated to get out and travel by foot because the city cleared the streets?

I don't know where you live, and if it's a metropolitan area I suppose there is a higher possibility that they would.

Non-shovellers and walkers are quite likely populations that only modestly overlap.

If roughly 1/4 of residents don't reliably shovel after most snow events, that's a significant impediment to walking, especially when now turns to ice. When you have 8 to 12 winter storms that dump at least 3 inches of snow, you can quickly get impassable sidewalks. If you miss shoveling just one or two times, you get an icy walk that makes subsequent shoveling irrelevant unless you do the hard work of ice removal.

A largely different set of 1/4 of residents may want or need to regularly walk on the sidewalks. There are 3 schools in our snow removal project area, so there are quite a few kids who don't have much of a choice. These school routes are hazardous. Some kids walk in the street because it's more clear. Here even the schools are erratic with their snow removal.

Quite a few people walk to bus stops, or walk to work downtown. Many have no other options.

I know that walking a few blocks from where I used to park to get to the Y was a hazardous experience due to just 3 or 4 homes that didn't shovel last winter. Navigating 50 feet of ice in both directions, especially after dark, is not a good thing. You can walk in the street, but it's a busy one that's typically barely two lanes wide due to parking (next to snow banks) on both sides. If you're mildly disabled, walking on ice and snow becomes more challenging. I walk worse now, so I haven't gone to the Y since it snowed last week. Sadly for me, the Y is not in our snow removal project area.

[DSafetyGuy]

You guys have sidewalks in front of your houses? Weird.

[DC47]

Well, yeah. Down past the pool, left at the servants' quarters, and then just past the stables. At least there seemed to be one the last time I looked. However, the Bentley has smoked glass windows, so I may be wrong. And I don't go out of the estate that way too often unless the helicopter is down for maintenance.

[DC47]

Miles of sidewalk in neighborhood sidewalk snow-removal area: 12+

Tax dollars utilized: 0

All sidewalks in the area are cleared after every snowfall by citizen-run organization. Now sidewalks outside the area leading to schools are being cleared. Plus a route all the way to downtown.

There are many challenges. And it has to be considered to be experimental at this point. But it's a wonderful thing to see happening.

[The Sybian]

Thanks for the advice. I decided on the Sno-Tek from Home Depot, but none of the stores in my area carry it, and the website says store only. They will ship it to my store for free, but delivery is not an option, and I can't stuff it into the Camry. Bastards.

I ended up with the Poulan Pro 24 in. 179cc. It is supposedly identical to the Husqvarna stripped of the unnecessary luxuries like power steering and heated handle bars (don't people wear gloves?). I don't know how much the extra 29cc helps. There were a bunch of 208cc's that were cheaper, but they were a Chinese company called Power Smart. They are sold at most of the big box stores, but a relatively new company with few service shops in the US. I just don't trust a newish Chinese company. The Husqvarna name and amenities brought the price up the $1,100, so I settled for $599 + free shipping. Everyone else charged $50-$125 for shipping. Every store other than Amazon charged over $800 + shipping.

Does anyone know how buying this from Amazon works? Is Amazon selling units from the Poulan manufacturer website I linked? I can't imagine Amazon buying and storing snowblowers, so do they sell from the manufacturers stock and take a cut for brokering the sale? I'm guessing it has to be, since the price was identical, as was the listed sale savings.

[govmentchedda]

You don't question how Amazon works. You just pay less and move on.

[The Sybian]

Snow blower showed up today. It is much bigger than I expected. Damn thing came in a wooden crate covered with cardboard. The wife is not going to be happy with this beast in the garage, even if I can clear out enough space to fit it in. So, if I get a tarp, how bad much damage would I do to the thing if I kept it outside and covered? I'd keep it under the deck with a tarp.

[rass]

...It is much bigger than I expected. Damn thing came in...The wife...even if I can clear out enough space to fit it in...how bad much damage would I do...? I'd keep it under the deck...

[DC47]

That will work great. Unless you live in an area where it gets cold and snows in the winter.

With teenage snow shovellers, you just hand them the cash and they go home to be stored at their owners' expense.