Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:38 pm

DC, I'm guessing you live south of the 45th parallel, otherwise you legally have to love TimBits and the Holy Triumvirate.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:47 pm

I'll admit a weakness for AM pop of the 60s and hard rock of the 70s, so I say yes to BOTH the Grass Roots and to Rush. And, whenever I say anything negative about my wife's musical taste, she uses both of those bands as examples of my own lack of credibility in the argument.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:05 pm

Rush2112 wrote:DC, I'm guessing you live south of the 45th parallel, otherwise you legally have to love TimBits and the Holy Triumvirate.

Well, I'm a sucker for donuts. So I used to like Tim Hortons. I recall on pre-child trips with my wife that we would set a number -- like 47 -- and then stop at the 47th Tim Hortons we saw. That didn't take as long as you'd think if you were driving on the 401 or even up the coast of Maine.

I'm fatter now. So I eat only a few donuts a year, and try to make them better ones.

It is true though that at our house the three-day old donuts left in the kitchen by a careless teen who got them at a fundraiser will mysteriously vanish by dawn the next day. Kind of like on that TV show "Lost."

I did listen to two collections of Rush CDs a few months back. Live and studio. I began to appreciate some of it, a little, if I tried hard. But if I liked to try hard, I'd listen to Samuel Barber and Shostakovich. So it's back to the Coltrane and Allmans and such for me, where I don't have to try. This week, it's been hours each day of nothing but Freddie King and post-war Django Reinhardt. Not much trying required. Like donuts left out overnight in the kitchen of a nutritionally-aware, diet-conscious, 30 pounds overweight man.

TheHumanComa · Post by **TheHumanComa** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:03 am

Big John Prine fan. thought this would fit in here.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:49 am

Sure does.

Thinking of Prine's duet partner reminds me of this song from her last album. They don't play stuff like this on the radio anymore. But if they did, this belongs in the Top 10 with a bullet. Now this here is classic folk and country music. It's where the traditional music of the Appalachians is pointed. Good to see some people are still following that lead, and making contemporary songs that would fit in with what they were singing around the kitchen in the '20s.

Here's another simple, classic song, ripped from real life by Iris Dement. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7VGGmTJqZs

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:40 pm

When I was in college the university station had a show called [the] Home of Happy Feet. They played a lot of Iris. I love this particular tune

this cover isn't bad either.

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:45 pm

Another from the days of happy feet

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:07 pm

and my current love Anais

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Fri Mar 06, 2015 4:27 pm

Rush, that Iris Dement video clip was terrific. Great song, great band -- and of course, she is great. That must have been some radio station. I don't think I've ever heard an Iris Dement cut on the radio. And I've listened to college and public radio stations, coast-to-coast since the 70s. Byrne and Merchant have never been to my taste. But it was at least interesting to hear them attempt the song.

There's a category of musician that I should like, but don't. Seemingly everything about them -- style of music, lyrical topics, band, looks -- is what I like in other musicians. But in this particular case, they don't reach me.

High on this list is Nancy Griffith. I've listened to most of her albums, seen her live. And nothing. If anything, she annoys me because I have this feeling that I should be appreciating what she is doing. But I can't. It's like eating at a good restaurant but temporarily having no sense of taste. Lyle Lovett is another on this list. Wilco. I still listen from time to time, in case something has changed. But it hasn't yet. I wonder if others' have this response to certain musicians?

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Fri Mar 06, 2015 5:01 pm

Home of Happy Feet is still on, so tune in!

(I feel that way about Wilco, as well. Really like a few tunes, and the albums they did with Billy Bragg, but the rest sort of hits me as meh.)

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:47 pm

I used to love Wilco. I was a big Uncle Tupelo fan before that. I've seen them plenty of times and they are a hell of a live act. I even have a band-signed copy of "AM". But Jeff Tweedy kind of turned me off when he decided he was an artiste and said some dismissive things about his fans from their earlier, more countryish stuff.

Iris Dement did some interesting duets with Merle Haggard.

I still love Natalie Merchant.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:43 pm

It's routine for me to love a musician's work for a very short time, and lose all interest afterwards. At least in the pop and rock genres. For example, I was deeply into Jackson Brown up through his first live album, then ... nothing. After the Eagles first three albums, I began to hate them. I loved everything Bonnie Raitt did -- until she had her first hits. John Gorka. Joni Mitchell. If you subtract the first 5 years or so of their careers, I'd wonder how they ever got a recording contract. For some it was more like 8 to 10 years (e.g., the Stones). But the end of the line comes quick. Perhaps my biggest reversal came with the Bee Gees. I was a big fan up until the disco album. In a moment, I moved 180 degrees. I fled at the sound of their suddenly annoying voices.

Musicians change focus, sometimes to their artistic detriment. They burn out and get lazy. They lose whatever 'it' they had.

If Hendrix an Joplin had lived longer, I might have had the same reaction to them.

So I am not surprised in your view of Wilco and Tweedy. That's the norm for me with musicians I like at first. It's a brief fun, followed by decades of indifference or disregard.

The thing I was pointing at earlier is that if you add up all her traits, I should have had at least a brief run as a Nanci Griffith fan. I was quite a bit into -- for at least a brief time, as above -- Joan Baez, Joni Mitchell, Judy Collins, Sylvia Tyson, Linda Ronstadt, Emmylou Harris, Lucinda Williams, Mary Chapin Carpenter, Patti Griffin, Iris Dement, Roseanne Cash, Gillian Welch, Shawn Colvin, Allison Moorer, Shelby Lynn, Dar Williams, and many more in this school (just to name the females) But I really found Nanci Griffith annoying, right from the beginning when I heard her live. She has no 'golden period' or even a tin one. I never even could muster indifference.

So too with Wilco and Tweedy. I've listened to everything they've done and I'm left cold by all of it. That's hard to predict given my love for so much of the country-folk-rock lineage before them.

I know that music services are using complex algorithms to predict listener preferences and so introduce them to hitherto unknown music they will enjoy. I wonder if this would work at all for me, as I have violently differentiated responses within a narrow genre, and even within the course of a single musician's career. I'm curious how the algorithms work for others?

HDO45331 · Post by **HDO45331** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:02 pm

DC47 wrote:It's routine for me to love a musician's work for a very short time, and lose all interest afterwards. At least in the pop and rock genres. For example, I was deeply into Jackson Brown up through his first live album, then ... nothing. After the Eagles first three albums, I began to hate them. I loved everything Bonnie Raitt did -- until she had her first hits. John Gorka. Joni Mitchell. If you subtract the first 5 years or so of their careers, I'd wonder how they ever got a recording contract. For some it was more like 8 to 10 years (e.g., the Stones). But the end of the line comes quick. Perhaps my biggest reversal came with the Bee Gees. I was a big fan up until the disco album. In a moment, I moved 180 degrees. I fled at the sound of their suddenly annoying voices.

Musicians change focus, sometimes to their artistic detriment. They burn out and get lazy. They lose whatever 'it' they had.

If Hendrix an Joplin had lived longer, I might have had the same reaction to them.

So I am not surprised in your view of Wilco and Tweedy. That's the norm for me with musicians I like at first. It's a brief fun, followed by decades of indifference or disregard.

The thing I was pointing at earlier is that if you add up all her traits, I should have had at least a brief run as a Nanci Griffith fan. I was quite a bit into -- for at least a brief time, as above -- Joan Baez, Joni Mitchell, Judy Collins, Sylvia Tyson, Linda Ronstadt, Emmylou Harris, Lucinda Williams, Mary Chapin Carpenter, Patti Griffin, Iris Dement, Roseanne Cash, Gillian Welch, Shawn Colvin, Allison Moorer, Shelby Lynn, Dar Williams, and many more in this school (just to name the females) But I really found Nanci Griffith annoying, right from the beginning when I heard her live. She has no 'golden period' or even a tin one. I never even could muster indifference.

So too with Wilco and Tweedy. I've listened to everything they've done and I'm left cold by all of it. That's hard to predict given my love for so much of the country-folk-rock lineage before them.

I know that music services are using complex algorithms to predict listener preferences and so introduce them to hitherto unknown music they will enjoy. I wonder if this would work at all for me, as I have violently differentiated responses within a narrow genre, and even within the course of a single musician's career. I'm curious how the algorithms work for others?

Same here for Jackson Browne. He fell in love, and the deepness of his writing fell off the cliff.

Eagles. First 3 were great, but with their constant change of members, they completely changed their music, from an alt-country to top 40 crap.

The BeeGees (red cover, if I remember correctly) album was fantastic. Disco? Crap commercial music.

Lyle Lovett is a fantastic performer, and very creative. Always changing his music. I have not listened to any of his new music, though.

Last night, while working on tax returns, I listened to five of the Moody Blues CDs. I would have like to have seen them in their prime, when they could hit all the notes.

My constants are CSN&Y, Guy Clark, James McMurtry (his new CD is really good,) and John Prine.

HDO45331 · Post by **HDO45331** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:08 pm

Oh, I was never into Wilco or Tweedy. I loved Uncle Tupelo (hat tip to the Swampers for turning me on to them and others.) Son Volt is much better.

A couple more bands that I owe a thank-you to the Swampers are The Killers and The Tragically Hip. Although I do not appreciate all of their music, they had some really good songs.

Dan Fogelberg and Kris Kristofferson are also high on my list.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 5:06 pm

Those are pretty good constants HDO. Lots of good stuff, for a pretty long time.

I guess I don't really have any constants in the literal sense of that word. No musicians in the pop-folk-rock genres whose work I've really liked for over a decade.

We part company at some point, sooner than later. More often than not, it's sudden. It seems to me that the artists drive off a cliff, even if they're not dramatically changing their approach (e.g., as the BeeGees did when they went disco). This is something that I have a lot of theories about, but don't truly understand except in cases where there are dramatic personnel changes to a band for whatever reason. My favorite theory is something of a non-theory. It's that a lot of things have to come together for a musician in these genres to work at their peaks. If one or two things go awry, then they slump.

The obvious case is that it takes a certain amount of focus and perseverance to compose good music. So if your sanity is seriously slipping, perhaps due to your drug intake, then you can lose it quickly. Brian Wilson comes to mind.

Another factor may be the emotional life of the artist. Once you make it in the music industry, your life can really change. Touring constantly, for example, can flatten out your emotional life. If this is a primary source for your compositions, then you are suddenly limited.

If you make it big enough, there go many of the challenges and stresses in life. Bang, out the door go a lot more inspirations. Easyness may be peaceful, but not conducive to great art.

Another factor is motivation. Creating is hard work. If you don't need to work hard anymore because the market will pay you no matter what, and those around you aren't going to tell you that you're work is no good, then perhaps you don't work as hard as you need to. You don't finish the promising but stuck song. You don't practice your instrument. You don't challenge yourself with new influences.

It could be that musicians who 'lose it' are experiencing the sudden onset of two or three of these things (and other factors like them). No one of them needs to be that dramatic. Perhaps doing great music is fragile enough that just losing your edge in several ways can result in a musician falling off a cliff, for no apparent reason. It could be that the musicians are mystified by this themselves. Or they may not even grasp that they don't have it anymore.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:53 pm

Just because HDO mentioned them, here's the great Jay Farrar and Son Volt:

HDO45331 · Post by **HDO45331** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:23 pm

Windfall. One of my favorites by son volt.

Thanks.

howard · Post by **howard** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:14 pm

I too love that song. Sounds like 1963.

This one is next on my alt-country playlist:

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:42 pm

Trivia: A long time ago, I lived for two years in Arlington, Texas. A couple of my good friends back then lived in a tiny, rural town of 1,000 people, 30 miles north of Fort Worth called Boyd, Texas. Boyd, Texas is the hometown of former NFL quarterback Billy Joe Tolliver, and Old 97's bassist Murry Hammond.

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:21 pm

sancarlos wrote:Trivia: A long time ago, I lived for two years in Arlington, Texas. A couple of my good friends back then lived in a tiny, rural town of 1,000 people, 30 miles north of Fort Worth called Boyd, Texas. Boyd, Texas is the hometown of former NFL quarterback Billy Joe Tolliver, and Old 97's bassist Murry Hammond.

Yup, my dad's best friend lived in Decatur which has an exit for Boyd. We spent a lot of time up there when I was a kid so I thought of Billy Joe Tolliver every time. Was not aware of the Old 97's connection though. Love them.

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 11:41 pm

After I found some random message board's "Vinyl day!" thread a few years back I've periodically scoured around for new random places to find new shit to listen to .

Came upon this today. Damn sweet.

I came upon the academy sometime ago and bookmarked to delve deeper. Think I just found my research for my exciting week away at a conference.

ETA: and this mix is grand.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:28 am

Rush2112 wrote:After I found some random message board's "Vinyl day!" thread a few years back I've periodically scoured around for new random places to find new shit to listen to .

Came upon this today. Damn sweet.

I came upon the academy sometime ago and bookmarked to delve deeper. Think I just found my research for my exciting week away at a conference.

ETA: and this mix is grand.

Excellent! A full day at the desk, this will get me off to a funky start.

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:53 am

Russian rock and roll. Yet another reason we won the cold war. They had the H-bomb and the Red Army. We had Chuck Berry and all who followed him.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:17 am

Ya know, Howard, I really don't think Chuck Berry gets enough credit. He was really the bridge from the old blues masters to modern rock and roll. Elvis gets all the credit, because he made what they called "race records" "safe" for the white kids, but Elvis was always good about deferring the credit.

"Maybelline" was released in 1955 - sixty years ago, now! And, it, like most of Chuck Berry's hits, holds up against the test of time much better than other music released in the fifties and early sixties. Berry's influence in songwriting, phrasing, and especially guitar playing can be heard on so many later artists, notably Keith Richards.

Yes, he was an asshole, but I guess you can say that about many prominent successful people in many fields. My wife is from Wentzville, Missouri, where Chuck Berry lived for much of the 1970s-onward. Her family has some "interesting" stories about him.

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:53 am

Unless maybe they put his face on Rushmore, it is impossible to give Berry enough credit. Putting his music on the deep space probe is one of the few gestures that comes close.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:49 am

That's a great Chuck Berry clip. Not too far past his peak years as a performer. This group has a different sound than his usual pick-up backing bands. Even an acoustic bass.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:53 am

DC47 wrote:That's a great Chuck Berry clip. Not too far past his peak years as a performer. This group has a different sound than his usual pick-up backing bands. Even an acoustic bass.

I think it was 1958, based on the date listed on another file of that video. Notably, his normal piano player Johnny Johnson isn't there.

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:56 am

Was he usually the only black guy in the room?

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:09 pm

My guess is that this was in the early '60s, based on the look of the crowd, the modern guitar, and the style of the jazz intro. Most likely in Western Europe but not England, Scandinavia, Spain, or Italy. Probably not France or Germany. Perhaps Holland, by exclusion. So in what looks like a pretty formal TV studio audience, rather than a club, I don't think it would be unusual for there to be few or no blacks there. You can't see much of the crowd so I don't know if the number is zero.

I'm listening to it again. Very cool. This was always one of my favorite Chuck Berry tunes. Memphis Tennessee is another. I know many will find Chuck to be a cliche. But that's what happens when several million people copy you and an entire genre of popular music explodes. In his day, he was as cool as they get. As innovative in his field as Coltrane was in his.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:21 pm

sancarlos wrote:
DC47 wrote:That's a great Chuck Berry clip. Not too far past his peak years as a performer. This group has a different sound than his usual pick-up backing bands. Even an acoustic bass.
I think it was 1958, based on the date listed on another file of that video. Notably, his normal piano player Johnny Johnson isn't there.

Johnny Johnson was worth the price of admission. Brilliant. He most definitely helped Chuck create those hits, writers credit or not (a matter of controversy).

When Chuck, always the conservative businessman in a business where they would rip you off without thinking about it, decided to lower his financial risk by no longer having a regular touring band it was a great loss. Many saw him live with just a local pick-up group, with the only rehearsal being the local guys listening to Chuck Berry records.

When he gets with good musicians -- as he is here on this video clip, even though they are not rockers -- it's really nice to hear. They are in the groove. The whole band could play. Dig the drummer. He's working out. Western Europe was loaded with good jazz players by 1960. They listened to what was coming out of America. And so many American jazz greats had relocated to France and Sweden in particular, to escape racism and find a more supportive audience. Dexter Gordon, Kenny Clarke, and many other lesser names spent a long time in residence. I think Miles loved Europe and seriously considered staying.

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:36 pm

Promised Land. just sayin'.

Although "As I was motorvating over the hill" is an awesome first verse line.

I just heard this on the satellite radio (Tom Petty the DJ), hadn't heard this one in years. Not at the top of my list of Berry favs, but a cool tune. And Edmunds covered it here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQ2Z1oG1EEs

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:05 pm

I've always loved Dave Edmunds' version of that song, and I never even realized it was a Chuck Berry song. TWILTS!

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:04 pm

I used to say 'motorvating' from time to time. But nobody seemed to get it. So I gave it up. Same with '23 skidoo.' I guess times change.

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:09 pm

We used that senior year of high school and in college. About the same time I started calling everyone 'dude', as a parody of the surfers. Decades before the hipsters appropriated the dude word.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:30 pm

Andy Fraser, the bass player for Free who also wrote many of their songs, just died. He had AIDS and cancer. The whole band were teenagers when Free hit it big - Fraser was just 17 when All Right Now made the charts in 1970.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:20 pm

Andy Fraser could really play. Gazillions of bassists lost it when they heard the bass on this track for the first time.

And what a track. Some have said that Free was the ultimate rock band, and that this song was the ultimate rock song. Not because it was "the best" -- whatever that means. But because this is rock stripped to its essence. This is a slow, even quiet song. Nothing incendiary going on, from anyone, anywhere. Simply amazing restraint from a group of musicians so young.

But it rocked. That's so very hard to do when you're forgoing the use of the usual devices of the medium.

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:25 pm

I could be wrong.

I could be right

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:08 pm

Before they became corporatized automatons, still bathing in the remaining blissful vibes of the '60s, the Eagles were a great folk-rock band. Here they're near their peak. Tremendous song. Killer melody. Silky harmony -- Randy Meisner was still wit them on bass. Lovely chiming country-rock guitar in the background, courtesy of Bernie Leadon. Note co-author Jackson Browne sitting in on piano in the background. Guitarist Don Felder is absent (not yet fired); perhaps Browne is filling in, or just happened to be along for the ride.

Disco, drugs, egomania, big money, LA and all the perils of success. Hotel California. A few years later it was a dramatically different band. But in 1974, they were burning it down.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:13 am

Rush2112 wrote:I could be wrong.

I could be right

I remember this, but didn't get it then, as I don't get it now. At least the musicianship is better than with his first band.

What am I missing as to what makes this interesting?

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:21 pm

Sometimes you to stretch your boundaries?

You may not she with on this, but I'll not she with you on the Eagles. No matter what they did on the past, one of their members was responsible for Dirty Laundry, the worst sing ever written.