Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

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DC47
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

Post by DC47 »

Rush2112 wrote:Sometimes you to stretch your boundaries?
I'm game. Tell me some things you like so I can use them to figuratively pry apart my hands from the throat of this band.
You may not she with on this, but I'll not she with you on the Eagles. No matter what they did on the past, one of their members was responsible for Dirty Laundry, the worst sing ever written.
That's got to be a foul. Or double jeopardy, or something. Even granting that Dirty Laundry was sub-par (no worse than ok in my book), you can't penalize the early Eagles for something done on a solo album by one member, years later. Should Meissner, Leadon and Felder have killed him so he wouldn't do this song? If Beethoven had written Muskrat Love for the Captain and Tenille in 1974, would you say that early Beethoven tunes were garbage?
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

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While we're at it, there is now a Lucky grocery store in town. I know they're big in Colorado. What would make us shop there? What are they good at?
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

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DC47 wrote:What are they good at?
I always heard it is better to be lucky than to be good.
Who knows? Maybe, you were kidnapped, tied up, taken away and held for ransom.

Those days are gone forever
Over a long time ago
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

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Of course. We wouldn't be caught dead shopping at good. Better is another matter.
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

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"beautiful, with an exotic-yet-familiar facial structure and an arresting gaze."
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

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DC47 wrote:While we're at it, there is now a Lucky grocery store in town. I know they're big in Colorado. What would make us shop there? What are they good at?

Lucky grocery? Never heard of them. City Market / King Soopers / Safeway and Whole Foods are the Colorado groceries, there are others of course but those are the ones you'll find more than 10 of.

Ludwig would have never written Muskrat Love, thats Mozart if anything.

I've never been that big of a fan of the Eagles, that someone affiliated wrote a song so shitty just knocks me off the edge.
Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

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Lucky's is in a nice little college town with a public library built over a creek. Lots of friendly locals and their dogs greeting passers-by at street corners.

https://www.luckysmarket.com/location/boulder-co/
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

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Ah, only go through North Boulder on the way to someplace else.

My brother, the butcher, of course has heard of it.
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

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So you're saying that Lucky's is not hipster enough for you?

I suspect you've seen the inside of Alfalfa's. Now that is a high H factor grocery.

I got stuck in Boulder two years ago with my concussed daughter, retreating from our vacation high in the Rockies to find lower-pressure. I was previously unaware that concussed brains have troubles at high altitude. We holed up in a cheap hotel and ate stuff procured from that remarkable grocery while she recovered.
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

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Alfalfas only once, when I was working at the public library and went there for lunch.

Used to be a Sprouts man, but after my brother worked there and told me of the state of their meat room I am no longer.



Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

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This is great stuff. I still listen to Ginger Baker's solo material. He was a far better drummer than I realized when he was in Cream. Did a lot of woodshedding in Africa that really showed.
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

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This is a classic song played by a classic band at their peak.



The book Star-Making Machinery by Geoffrey Stokes is a nice description of a great country rock-a-billy bar band's demise, accelerated by making it big enough to enter the world of big-time rock and roll record labels in the '70s.

http://www.avclub.com/article/week-32-c ... men--40312
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

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Hot Rod Lincoln is the first rap song.

Older hit version by Johnny Bond, 1960: " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But the Commander Cody version was a radio mainstay when I was in high school. And they played Sacto clubs all the time as well as SF clubs, I saw them maybe half a dozen times, loved their energy. I guess they were a U of M band, but ended up in the bay area.
Who knows? Maybe, you were kidnapped, tied up, taken away and held for ransom.

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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

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Here's Bill Kirchen, the guitarist for Commander Cody in the prior video, playing Hot Rod Lincoln decades later. He's turned it into a musical tour de force, showcasing his skill at playing multiple guitar styles as well as the Edmund Fitzgerald's horn.

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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

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howard wrote:Hot Rod Lincoln is the first rap song.

Older hit version by Johnny Bond, 1960: " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But the Commander Cody version was a radio mainstay when I was in high school. And they played Sacto clubs all the time as well as SF clubs, I saw them maybe half a dozen times, loved their energy. I guess they were a U of M band, but ended up in the bay area.
Several guys in the original band were U-M students, including Cody (an art student), lead guitarist Bill Kirchen and rhythm guitarist John Tichy. They played country music in bands before 'Commander Cody' formed.

Commander Cody and the Lost Planet Airmen played every bar in Ann Arbor and house parties galore in the late 60s and early 70s. I intersected with them in the Bay Area, and in Sonoma County in particular, where I believe some were living in the mid '70s. Most often I didn't see the full Cody band; I think they were in the process of breaking up. I saw different combinations of band members, and sometimes one of them (often primary vocalist Billy C. Farlow) would front his own entirely separate group.

Commander Cody was an odd band. They merged several forms of music that were popular in the mid 50s - rock-a-billy, country, rock, blues. This made them hard to sell commercially as they offended each genre in some way (e.g., sex and pot references in country songs, fiddling in rock songs.) But I was tuned into that musical intersection so I didn't think this strange. What struck me was that some of these guys were really good musicians (guitarist Kirchen, fiddler/sax player Andy Stein, steel guitarists Black and the Creeper) and the rest were really not good at all. They were okay for a bar band; I kind of tuned them out.

Bill Kirchen grew up in Ann Arbor, but long ago left town. Last I heard, he had lived in the D.C. area but then moved to Austin. I know several people who knew him way back when. He still plays here when he tours, and does that 'guitarist medley' every time I've seen him. And every time differently. He's worth catching.
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

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Very cool, I bet those guys were a party. They seemed to have a good time on stage when I was a teenybopper.
Who knows? Maybe, you were kidnapped, tied up, taken away and held for ransom.

Those days are gone forever
Over a long time ago
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

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You probably saw them at their musical peak, and me slightly after that. But it could well be that the Ann Arbor days were their party apex. They probably played ever bar in town at the same time. At least that's the local legend.

I wasn't there back then. But current townie pals say that Cody was the hottest thing going. I think they were something of a cult band, beloved by more famous musicians, around the time they went west to seek fame and fortune. That may have done them in, as it put them in the sights of the Big Record Companies who tended to immediately wreck any act they couldn't quickly make money on.

Cody had one hit. That was one more than should have been expected given their quirky mix of core influences and their unwillingness to follow the peers the Eagles into more conventional country-rock (with a lot more rock than country) territory. Without that hit, who knows -- they might have been a great touring band for decades to come. Fate intervenes in all mortal affairs, for better or worse. We figure out which only long afterwards.
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

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Great stuff, DC. Well, friends and neighbors, I am in lovely Ann Arbor for the day and met the estimable Mr. DC for supper last evening. We discussed much of what was recently posted, here. My contribution relates to the time I saw Commander Cody and his Lost Planet Airmen in Grand Junction, Colorado in '77 or '78 at the aptly named "Suds and Sound" 3.2 beer hall/disco. The stage was above a dance floor, and I think the band was a bit surprised (and pleased) that audience members were country swing dancing to many of their numbers, and I think it energized their performance. At one point Bill Kirchen was wailing away on his guitar and dropped to his knees a la Jimi Hendrix. But the force of his drop caused his eyeglasses to fall off his face down onto the dance floor. He didn't even stop playing, and some kind soul handed them back up to him. Good times.
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

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Apart from the good company, San Carlos and I enjoyed some fine beer and perhaps the best meatloaf I've had, apart from the absurdly exaggerated memory of what my mother made in the 60s.

Who knew San Carlos was 6 foot 8, wears a nice fu manchu mustache, and has long, curling fingernails on his left hand? It does make him easier to spot in a crowded bar.
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

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DC47 wrote: Who knew San Carlos was 6 foot 8, wears a nice fu manchu mustache, and has long, curling fingernails on his left hand? It does make him easier to spot in a crowded bar.
I did know what he did for a living, and we had some beers on the State of Colorado, so that was nice.
Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

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Discussions between professional assassins bring up all kind of fascinating tips and tricks of the trade. I certainly picked up a few things that have come out since I last did a Mossad training session. It's also just darn fun to get caught up on the gossip about who's left from the old gang in Nicaragua and that fun time in the Belgian Congo. I wasn't there, but the Dallas '63 reunion crowd is always a hoot if they're in the same bar.

Things sure are easy in Colorado these days. I've never heard of a state penitentiary that served beer. Free no less. If you're still doing time, perhaps I'll drop by this summer to have a visit.
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

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Well, as is often the case, access is dependent on whom you know. Rush has good contacts among the librarian/assassin community, so good beers were made available, and a good time was had by all.
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

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DC47 wrote:Discussions between professional assassins bring up all kind of fascinating tips and tricks of the trade.
All's it takes is one itchy trigger
One more widow, one less white nig…

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(The art of the music video was not yet well developed. This is extra goofy.)
Who knows? Maybe, you were kidnapped, tied up, taken away and held for ransom.

Those days are gone forever
Over a long time ago
Oh yeah…
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

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sancarlos wrote:Well, as is often the case, access is dependent on whom you know. Rush has good contacts among the librarian/assassin community, so good beers were made available, and a good time was had by all.
Every time I see someone working as a librarian, I smile a little smile. At least 10% are part of the clan. My advice is to be careful with those late returns.

Really, time to get a better cover. IT seems to be the new one. Yeah, yeah -- a bunch of nerds with their craft beers and multi-player fantasy games. Except they can kill you with a thumbdrive, and then use it to bring down the entire energy infrastructure of a major country by inserting it in the laptop of a low-level utility company employee. Especially the women, and the bald guys with a bit of a gut.

If the James Bond books were being written today, he'd be an IT professional who wears those black plastic-framed glasses (an excellent weapon by the way) and listens to bootlegs from The Decemberists current tour. Ian always said my cover would be still good because the books were just a trifle that wouldn't really sell. Right. I had to make some major changes just to stay viable in the business, starting with the accent, the tux, the drink, and the car. So now I talk midwestern, wear plaid shirts, drink craft beer, and drive an old Subaru with duct tape on the rear quarter panel. It doesn't even have retractable machine guns. Thanks, man.
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Hey Rush!

Post by howard »

So watching some old Trailer Park Boys episodes, the goofy one with Alex Lifeson led me to pull out (figuratively- never had the vinyl, grabbed it on the internets) that first Rush album and listen, probably for the first time in decades.

Man, that shit is pretty good. They really were a bluesy-hard rock power trio at the start, none of that prog-hippie-high concept stuff. And John Rutsey was no slouch on the drums. My only complaint is you have to wait for the last cut, which is the masterstroke of the record.

I was never a fan but always kinda liked them. I didn't start playing bass until late in life, about 20 years ago. When I was ready to buy one (after starting on a borrowed Fender) there was a sweet Rickenbaker 4001 listed (on whatever predated Craigslist) priced for a song. I was gonna pass and keep looking for a Fender, but my bandmate mentioned that Geddy played a Rick, and I figured he rocked hard enough for me.

Who knows? Maybe, you were kidnapped, tied up, taken away and held for ransom.

Those days are gone forever
Over a long time ago
Oh yeah…
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

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Working Man is a great great tune (and play that Diane Sawyer tune.)

Used to be my get home from the shitty early-20s job, crack a beer and put my feet up jam.

ETA: Rutsey wasn't a bad drummer (or a good weight lifter,) but Dr. Peart just blows him away.


oh, and this a grand tune as well.

Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

Post by howard »

That album gets far too little airplay in my house, considering how deeply it is imprinted, came out midway through freshman year of college. Too frequently I reach for Blonde on Blonde, Highway 61 or the Biograph collection.
Who knows? Maybe, you were kidnapped, tied up, taken away and held for ransom.

Those days are gone forever
Over a long time ago
Oh yeah…
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

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Rush2112 wrote:Working Man is a great great tune (and play that Diane Sawyer tune.)

Used to be my get home from the shitty early-20s job, crack a beer and put my feet up jam.

ETA: Rutsey wasn't a bad drummer (or a good weight lifter,) but Dr. Peart just blows him away.


oh, and this a grand tune as well.

Not a word of a lie - I woke up way too early this morning and before I even brushed my teth, "Tangled Up In Blue" jumped into my mind. I was never a big Dylan fan and haven't listened to him in many, many years. But I streamed "Blood on the Tracks" this morning and remembered what an awesome album it is. And "Idiot Wind" is probably the best track on there.
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

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Pruitt wrote:
Not a word of a lie - I woke up way too early this morning and before I even brushed my teth, "Tangled Up In Blue" jumped into my mind. I was never a big Dylan fan and haven't listened to him in many, many years. But I streamed "Blood on the Tracks" this morning and remembered what an awesome album it is. And "Idiot Wind" is probably the best track on there.
I'm partial to "Simple Twist Of Fate"...
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

Post by Pruitt »

Wire has a new album out.

I just bought the thing and it is making my eardrums bleed!

Stream it here (I think) http://www.npr.org/2015/04/05/396571143 ... -wire-wire

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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

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I know that hdo in particular is a big Chris Hillman fan, so when I saw this nice article on him, I thought I'd post it, here.
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

Post by HDO45331 »

sancarlos wrote:I know that hdo in particular is a big Chris Hillman fan, so when I saw this nice article on him, I thought I'd post it, here.
Great article. Yes, he is one of my favorite musicians.

Thanks.
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

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"beautiful, with an exotic-yet-familiar facial structure and an arresting gaze."
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

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'A genius is the one most like himself' and more advice from Thelonious Monk.

http://www.openculture.com/2012/09/thel ... a_gig.html
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

Post by DC47 »

Nice arrangement of that Lou Reed tune.

In the late 60s and early 70s I was a regular Welk viewer. Was that Dale doing the vocal?

That was pretty much the only place you could hear big band music, or any form of jazz, on national TV. Those of us who played were pretty sure we were practicing a dying art form. Duke Ellington was having trouble getting good gigs. Count Basie was cutting pieces and moving to a smaller band format. The young jazz musicians were bailing out of being musicians or bailing on the traditional forms in favor of jazz-rock fusion or soft jazz or some other corrupt quasi-jazz (to my ears). Welk's band wasn't much. But at least he wasn't that.
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

Post by howard »

DC47 wrote:'A genius is the one most like himself' and more advice from Thelonious Monk.

http://www.openculture.com/2012/09/thel ... a_gig.html
Ima gunna start saying that all the time. "You got to dig it, to dig it. You dig?"

My favorite: "They tried to get me to hate white people, but someone would always come along and spoil it."
Who knows? Maybe, you were kidnapped, tied up, taken away and held for ransom.

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Oh yeah…
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

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Shocking insight, considering that Buster Posey was born well after Monk's death. But it could be that he was a big fan of pitcher Johnny Antonelli who won 20 games a few times with the Giants when they were in New York. Monk composed the song "Crepuscle with Nelli" in his honor. Okay, I just made that up.

Another possibility is that Monk was reflecting on his relationship with Baronness Nica de Koenigswarter, of the legendary English Rothschild financial family. Though she was part of the wealthiest family in the world, Nica served in the Free French military in the Congo with her pilot husband during WW II. Many members of her mother's family and that of her husband -- central European Jews who did not flee when Nica did -- had been killed by the Nazis in the war. In the 50s, Nica moved to NYC, leaving five children with her (soon to be ex) husband in France.

She entered the bebop jazz scene in a highly visible way, given that she was a wealthy white woman, with no male in her life. She supported Monk and other jazz musicians in a variety of ways, from offering a place to crash to paying medical bills. Monk was notoriously difficult to deal with, but Nica was close to him (and to his wife, the actual 'Nellie' referenced in the song above). Nica once went to jail on a drug charge rather than have Monk take a possession conviction that would prevent him from playing in NYC clubs. Eventually, Nica cared for Monk at her home in his final years in the 70s and 80s, after he withdrew from public view She did the same for Charlie Parker, when he was in bad shape from years of heroin use. He died at her apartment.

Monk's tune "Pannonica" -- Nica's given name -- was named after the baroness. Many other bebop musicians composed songs in her honor. Horace Silver's "Nica's Dream" is outstanding.
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

Post by howard »

Jew. Not really white.

(i keed, i keed.)

I did not know her story. Fascinating. I am woefully ignorant of Monk; better start to remedy that.

eta: a documentary on her, at hbo: http://www.hbo.com/documentaries/the-jazz-baroness#/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Who knows? Maybe, you were kidnapped, tied up, taken away and held for ransom.

Those days are gone forever
Over a long time ago
Oh yeah…
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

Post by DC47 »

howard wrote:Jew. Not really white.
Of course. But also daughter of partner in the Rothschild banking empire (her maiden name was Rothschild), so she was at least an honorary white.

I believe the Rothschild family excommunicated her for moving to NYC and joining the bebop crowd. Though she must have still had enough of her own money to own luxury apartments and a country place, as well as serving as a quiet patron for so many bebop musicians, famous and not.

The interplay between blacks and Jews in the music industry of the 50s has long interested me. Several genres which are typically seen as 'black music' actually were dynamic partnerships between blacks and Jews -- who at the time were seen by many as bitter enemies.

There were certainly Jewish jazz musicians in that era. But moreover, many of the label owners, producers and engineers who made the classic records of the bebop era were Jewish. Certainly money was involved. But there wasn't much in this genre. Without a very close working relationship between bebop musicians and a small number of bebop-obsessed label owners, producers and engineers, this form of music would not have flourished the way it did.

Small independent record labels were at the core of the bebop scene. They recorded jazz musicians well before the established labels had any interest. Blue Note was the major independent. It was run by Alfred Lion and Francis Wolff, both Jewish emigres. Lion also produced many of their bebop sessions. Bob Weinstock's Prestige was perhaps the second most significant player. Both employed the engineering genius Rudy Van Gelder, an optometrist who ran his own recording studio in New Jersey. If you look at the credits on hundreds of the greatest jazz recordings from the late 40s to the early 60s you will find many with Lion or Weinstock as the producer, and Van Gelder as the engineer -- and his New Jersey studio as the recording location.

If you erased Lion, Weinstock and Van Gelder from history, then bebop may have no more significance today than dixieland jazz. They took struggling, marginal, often drug-addicted musicians who typically had little rehearsal time and sometimes no actual jazz group into the studio and quickly produced what were to be the iconic records of 50s bebop. Thelonious Monk, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Sonny Rollins, Hank Mobley, Art Blakey, Horace Silver, and Cannonball Adderly were some of those who recorded with them.

Blue Note was distinctive in actually paying the musicians to rehearse before recording them. Prior to that, featured musicians like Charlie Parker would just show up (often in less than a sober state) and blow, on songs that were lifted with minimal alteration from existing standards (to capture writing royalties), playing with whomever a record label put in the studio with them. Parker was a genius, but this was not the optimal way to capture his ability. Jazz fans benefited greatly from the financial risk that Lion and Wolff were willing to take with musicians who were not then selling many records, and sometimes who could not reliably get gigs in NYC.
I did not know her story. Fascinating. I am woefully ignorant of Monk; better start to remedy that.
Monk takes some effort to listen to. He is certainly not in the free jazz school. But he also did not care to tread the tracks of those before him. So he used some unusual meters, odd melodies, and his piano playing is often fragmented and sparse compared to the melodic rapid-fire note-generators like Bud Powell, Art Tatum, and Errol Garner. As off-putting as Monk sometimes chose to be, close listening pays dividends. There is a reason that great jazz musicians who were also great composers would cover Monk's tunes.

I'd start with Monk's early works with combos. Look for sax player Charlie Rouse, one of the few who could play with Monk, on the small labels. Monk's recordings in the mid 60s with bigger labels get more attention, because of the label's marketing power and the his burgeoning reputation. But at that point he was often in bad shape, and often just re-hashing prior work and assorted covers.
eta: a documentary on her, at hbo: http://www.hbo.com/documentaries/the-jazz-baroness#/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That will go on my play list. She is a fascinating historical figure, only partly due to her almost silent role -- at least until the demonic Parker scandalously died in her luxury apartment -- as patron of the bebop scene. You can imagine how the straight world and media worked this over.

The only thing I've seen about Nica on video was a bit in Clint Eastwood's movie Bird where she was briefly depicted on-screen as Bird died alone in her apartment. This is a great movie by the way. Yes, it's Eastwood. And he shot it with no money, no time, and with no original Parker recordings. I think it bombed at the box office -- I recall seeing it in an empty theatre in the late 80s. I recall this well because I had smoked a joint in the parking lot and was a little concerned about standing out in a crowd of five; I thought I was going to blend in with the crowd. But Eastwood is a genuine lover of jazz, and this is a work of art unlike anything he has been otherwise associated with. A young Forrest Whitaker excels as Bird. He's on screen all the time, so this is a big part.

I am highly critical of how music is used in films about musicians. I saw the Jimi Hendrix movie featuring Andre 3000 last week. I liked the movie, and Andre is a very credible Jimi. Eerie in fact. But I was in a bad way when I realized the movie would be completely absent any actual Hendrix tracks or even re-recorded compositions. I presume there was bad blood between the producer and the Hendrix estate. Bird, despite having no actual Parker recordings (probably inadequate from a technical recording point of view), actually has great music. They used isolated Parker solos from tracks that may not have even been released, and blended them with tremendous combo work that was technically excellent and captured the spirit of the time. That can only be a meticulous labor of love, that Hollywood studios would not generally undertake.
Last edited by DC47 on Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
howard
Karl Hungus
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

Post by howard »

DC47 wrote:
howard wrote:
I am woefully ignorant of Monk; better start to remedy that.
Monk takes some effort to listen to.
And that is why I've never dove into his work. My dad flat out told me when I was a teenager, 'you're not ready for Monk'. When I saw the film by now in my mid 30s, and long past my brief jazz phase, I again thought I'm not ready for that, I recognized this isn't casual listening. Never got around to much more than his most familiar tunes, yet I can instantly recognize a side as Monk.

I just watched the Jazz Baroness film. I had associated her with Bird, thanks to that film (Forest Whitaker's best work imo, fuck factual accuracy, that was amazing,) I didn't know of her relationship with Monk which was much longer and deeper. The little bit of Charlie Rouse in the film is cool, he can play. My dad was a tenor player in this era, slightly younger than the guys inventing bebob. He mentioned Rouse in one or two of his stories; Dexter Gordon was the most famous dude he sat in with after hours. Of course this is a great regret of mine, that I didn't get enough of these stories out of my dad, since he died when I was 24 and I was still too much of a young knucklehead to ask more questions.

I have Straight, No Chaser cued up if the Warrior game gets out of hand.

eta: the film on Panonica had a quote from one of Monk's bass players (Pettiford maybe?) that I hadn't thought of in decades, that describes Monk; "I've played with cats who played all the white keys, and with cats who play all the black keys. But I never played with a muthafucker who played in the cracks between the keys."
Who knows? Maybe, you were kidnapped, tied up, taken away and held for ransom.

Those days are gone forever
Over a long time ago
Oh yeah…
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